Saffex you are a liar! Have I not already posted video evidence of Morné not only chasing down every last hope of a tackle but already diving in as soon as another defender has been breached. Come on Saffex, you are straining too hard. Don't ruin your credibility like Michael! Not only this, but I am fully equipped to show Lambie avoiding tackles; twice Adi Jacobs stepping up to do the job himself!
Rugby Championship 2012 - Johan Goosen Defence
Saffex you are a liar! Have I not already posted video evidence of Morné not only chasing down every last hope of a tackle but already diving in as soon as another defender has been breached. Come on Saffex, you are straining too hard. Don't ruin your credibility like Michael! Not only this, but I am fully equipped to show Lambie avoiding tackles; twice Adi Jacobs stepping up to do the job himself!
Sun Tzu
Morne stands way to deep in the pocket to make contact with anyone - either in defence or attack, He never attacks the gain line himself. He always stand still when he receives the ball - no forward movement that would bring defenders near to him.
Those are all signs of a player avoiding contact. have never come across a flyhalf who after nearly 10 years of top ruby virtually never had an injury of note. Since flyhalfs are vulnerable from that perspective - they are always in danger of fairly serious injury.
The only way to avoid danger s to avoid contact and Morne is an expert in that - that is a fact
Another lie Michael. Do you need another video exposing you?
"Those are all signs of a player avoiding contact."
See the video on the Ellis Park and see him chasing every opportunity for making contact. As per attack? You have to stand deeper to get the ball wider. You just don't know anything about back-play Michael. Nothing, zero, zip.
Sun Tzu
And missing four out of 11 attempted tackles at Ellis Park - what a farce.
Sun Tzu
And missing four out of 11 attempted tackles at Ellis Park - what a farce.
now before i continue with my attack on all things stupid, i want to point out that ultimatley, i am pro goosen over morne any day of the week, hell i am pro empty packet of chips over morne any day of the week.
as i have said many times in the past, goosens potential is through the roof, but he hasnt come close to living up to those expectations on test level, but that Bok/wally test in SA back in 2012 was pretty damn classy.
ultimately i would select goosen ahead of morne every day, as morne in the Boks is on of many factors for the All Blacks continuing dominance over the springless Boks.
put as much as i rate and like goosen, it dosent mean im going to turn a blind eye when he does F up like he did with aaron smiths try in the dunedin test.
now lets address some of ur hilarious comments,,,
"Sas, Greyling wasn't running towards the ruck, he was already there. From the video it looks like a looseforward is running to support Greyling,"
i hate reading comments like these, cos i always have to shower afterwards.
u see in my head, comments like these are soooooo stupid, that they have the potential to kidnap some of my brain cells and do God knows what to them.
the long winded point im making is, u couldnt be more wrong.
so u claim greyling wasnt running towards the ruck, he was already there (huge facepalm).
using the clip provided above by suntzu, im going to make a special exact time reference points so that even u can go back up top and check for urself.
00:58 - 01:05
the time frame ive pointed out for u shows goose running away from the ruck and greyling standing in the defensive line to the left (Boks left) of the referee who is standing about a meter and a half or two meters away from the ruck.
as goosen runs past the referee and greyling to get into the defensive line like a programmed robot who dosent know any better, greyling relaises the left of that ruck is completely unguarded thanks to goose and runs into the ruck, buts its all too late, as aaron smith has summed the situation up perfectly, which is an All Black try thanks to goosen living up to his nickname and acting the defensive goose.
"every player on that pitch has somewhere to be in the defensive structure and Goosen was most probably returning there."
defensive structures in general play??? good to see saffa rugby hasnt evolved one bit, or maybe thats just ur 1800s opinion.
sure u should always get back into position ASAP, but not if it means leaving a gaping hole the likes of which goosen left when he left the side of the ruck unattended.
its basic rugby 101, play according to what the situation requires, they teach that shit in rugby during primary school, well at least in NZ they do, its little wonder saffas are so far behind the NZ rugby empire.
"Ruan Pienaar should have been by the ruck man marking Aaron Smith,"
really, pienaar should have been marking aaron smith???
is that the same pienaar who had just tackled corey jane which led to the ruck preceding the goosen blunder ruck???
maybe someone should tell pienaar that tackling a player with the ball is not part of his job description, making sure the defensive structures are in tact no matter the cost is the No1 and only priority, (another facepalm).
also worth noting that the only reason that pienaar made that tackle on jane, is cos jane ran right through goosen.
damn, goosens on for a few seconds and this thread has clearly identified goosen as the No1 culprit for aaron smiths try.
"Greyling was on the opposite side of the ruck when Smith made his snipe Greyling should have been marking him better."
watch that time frame i mentioned, and next time try not to put ur foot in ur mouth.
"From the video it looks like a looseforward is running to support Greyling"
yeah a looseforward, must be the smae looseforward who told u won this argument the last time round,
LMFAO,
dont worry shazzzzzzzzzzzza, ur rugby credit rating will recover in 7 years as long as theres no more R-tard incidents,
And that long winded response on how you have to shower after because you find something so stupid, it's an honest mistake that people make, mixing up players. I'm sure you've made the same mistake and will again in the future. You can be sure I will pounce on the opportunity to remind you this.
Sas, I have yet to see
FYI Pienaar had plenty of time to return of time to return from the ruck, but he just stood there and watched the try unfold.
Shezza
The problem with the kind of report written by Sun Tzu and in another case by Mozart is that they think in their mind what they believe players should have done - and if the a player did not do it - that player failed. That means also that they try and describe the situation in such a way that it favours their favoured player - or discredit players they do not like.
In essence the way they do it never reflects the actual situation as to what happened - but a slanted image that in fact never happened on the ground, They then refise to accept their folly and swear by it. It is normally utter bullshit - so I do not really care what they write.
Insofar as Goosen's defence is concerned - Sun Tzu referred constantly to defence failure on the part of Goosen - which in fact never happened if the stats are borne in mind, Howeverm one must bear in mind that you get members of this site - who will discredit on false grounds any player that could potentially threaten Morne Steyn'sposition in the Springbok's team.
Sun Tzu also swears the Kirchner is the best full back SA wish to have and you should see the rubbish he writes about Le Roux.
That guy' s view on rugby is really weird.
Nobody can slate the Golden Goose, the one aspect of his play that isn't as good as the rest and they completely dismiss him but on saying that, that aspect of play is still pretty good. Don't you worry Morne lovers, I'll see you change your colours when Goose wins us a World cup.
Hahahaha... Hoe fokken lekker lag ek nou!!
I will answer in English so that the idiot can also understand.
I just had a look at the two video clips posted and they actually prove quite conclusively, the opposite. As one other poster stated, Goosen's technique is flawed, but I think it is more of a case that his technique is flawed because he leans away from contact, because he is scared. Not one of his tackles have forward momentum and he allows the runner to get next to him, so that he doesn't have to take the full hit. It also explain his injuries, as he allows the attacker to dominate the contact area.
Now in Morne's case, let's take what is touted as his worst performance ever as the example. Last year's AB test at Ellispark. Morne made 7 tackles which was the third highest number of all the players, just behind Etsebeth (9) and that other "sloth" Alberts (8). The majority of his tackles and also his missed tackles, were attempts to clean up, after other tackling "heros" like Kirchner (1 made / 2 missed), Le Roux (0 made / 5 missed), De Villiers (2 made / 2 missed), du Preez (1 made / 2 missed), Bismark (0 made / 1 missed), Strauss (2 made / 3 missed), messed up initially. And most of these others attempted less than he made!
There were 31 missed tackles from SA in the match, which was extreme (but the All Blacks also missed 28).
The fact that so many tackles were attempts to clean up proves two things. 1. They do not attack his channel as much as they did in the case of Goosen. 2. He definitely does not shy away from contact, but in fact attempt even the tackles where he actually has little hope of succeeding.
En daar gaan die kak argument van die idioot en vriende by die deur uit. Daar is nie pille vir dom nie...
Daar is nie pille vir dom nie - maar daar is malhuise vir die malles. En die malles is daardie gek ouen s wat altyd 'n string verskonings het vir Morne Steyn.
Morne is a player that has shown over the past two years that he is no asset for SA - similar as he is a limited asset for Stade Francais - also a proven fact.
The fact that Morne gets poor tackle stats must be explained away in a manner that makes him look good - despite indications to the contrary. And then oviously we have to criticise the tackle technique of Goosen to counter-balance the fact that in the 100 minutes he played international rugby he made 18 tackles out of 20 attempted tackles.
That kind of BS is always used to explain away unfavourable images of their favoured players - so reasonable people must take it with a bag of salt - a pinch is grossly insufficient.
I am not saying Morne is a yellow belly - but his style of play is to avoid contact with especially defenders. Since he virtually never attacks the gain line himself - that impression is really confirmed. His missed tackle ratio last year was 19,4% in the RC and 20% in the EOYT. That shows that his atrocious defence in the Elllis Park test is really par for the course.
You can never quote me as saying that Kirchner is the best anything. That said, he has been doing a fine job and in fact offers the Boks a lot on both attack and defence.
"Morne's poor defence is summed up in his pathetic performance in that last test against NZ........7 tackles made........4 missed.......the bloke is a yellow belly who does not like contact........so try again Dutchie........jou dom doos"
Poor Saffex. Answer me this, how many head-on tackles did Morné miss? The answer is in fact 0. How many tackles were missed that were not him chasing a player from behind, the answer is the same. So if Morné does not like contact, then why does he go looking for it? That's the hole in your logic that you cannot account for. Note also his two try saving tackles. You will attack a player that has proved he can actually take down players twice his size, even smashing Retallick out of the way; yet you will praise a player who has never landed one successful tackles in three tests? What's more, Morné has no qualms playing much closer to the gainline than Goosen; even taking contact if a player is in a worse position. As seen in the Dunedin test where he bailed out of a planned move gone wrong and took it into contact. Saffex, there are so many pieces of evidence that blow everything you have ever stated out of the water.
And there you have it, to those reading and not posting, you see the lengths to which people will go to deny reality. We have plain as day video evidence yet they will not relent. Biased to the core, with Michael going to so far as to say that video evidence is a distortion of the facts and that the statistics are where the truth alone lies. What utter garbage! But no worry, the thread exposes the bias. And credit to Sasuke for schooling Shezza.
Morne is a very average rugby player with a very good boot......take that boot away from him and Morne would never have played a single game for the Bulls.
Morne is a bog ordinary rugby player........no better than Koen or Braam v Straaten who were equally poor Bok 10's.
Hopefully we will never see Morne in a Bok jersey again........the prodigious talent in Goosen has to take us out of this position of mediocrity.
Had I been Bok coach, Morne would not have smelt a single Bok cap......I could not bring myself to select such an average player
Le Roux: 0%
Kirchner: 33%
du Plessis: 0%
FdP: 33%
Strauss: 40%
de Villiers 50%
Yet nothing is said about them...
LOL!
And tackles attempted tells us all about the willingness to defend. And there goes your theory....
Jy's dof, fokof!
You will find that Meyer did not change the gameplan for Goosen at all.......go read 'Gavin Rich's......The Poison Chalice' where this very point is mentioned. The gameplan remained the same.......Goosen just executed it far better than Morne ever could for the simple reason that he is a far, far better rugby player........plain and simple
I cant quote the exact times I have seen Morne shy away from contact, but I know for a fact that I have seen it over the years.
Morne is a liability in defence and offers NOTHING on attack.......so why select him......just because he can kick.......how sad is that and we wonder why we never look like challenging the AB's for that top spot........you cant be number 1 with an ordinary pivot.......look no further than the AB's with the magnificent Carter at 10
Stick to the Art of Lying.
Hahaha... So now I fuck you up in your own language and then I have to go back to my own language. Funny!
"he did ignite the backs, we ran riot....."
Try 1: Goosen fails to draw the defender with a clear overlap, after HABANA was at 10. Luckily Kirchner breaks the tackle and scores, despite Goosen best efforts to deliver ball and defender at the same time.
Goosen makes his one break and turns over the ball with a penalty. Alberts was at first receiver and Louw at inside center. Goosen was at outside centre.
Try 2: HABANA runs a brilliant line after a ruck and gets the ball as first receiver and scores. Goosen not involved. (Was involved in some of the earlier phases where he made two good passes and two hospital passes.)
Try 3: Try from a maul... Goosen not involved...
Try 4: Quick throw from HABANA to Strauss. Gets the ball back from Strauss and HABANA scores. Goosen not involved.
Minute 71: Australia down to 14 men due to injuries
Try 5: Louw makes a break and makes a brilliant long pass for HABANA who scores. Etsebeth at first receiver to Jantjies who just shifted it on to Louw. Goosen not on the field.
HABANA was THE key player in 4 of the 5 tries with individual brilliance. Miskien moet hy maar 10 speel?
Jy's Dof! Fokof!
Goosen's defence may not be the strongest part of his game but I was at the FNB stadium in 2012 when the Boks lost to the ABs and Goosen got injured, but before the injury I saw first hand a number of very gutsy tackles that Goosen made. He is certainly no worse than Morning Stain when it comes to tackling but he's so far ahead of Morning Stain in every other facet of the game that it's not even worth comparing the two. Goosen has shown more skill and talent in his limited opportunities so far than Steyn ever showed in his entire career.
Shezza
there is no discussion possible with closed minds like Sun Tzu - that is if he has a mind at all. I think this story - I nearly said fib - about Morne being a top class flyhalf has been proven as absolute rubbish years ago. The dolts will never accept that - they do not understand why goal kicking is not the only thing required from a flyhalf.
Saffex
Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7061 RE: Rugby Championship 2012 - Johan Goosen Defence
February 12, 2014, 11:47:58 No it was not but Oz are at number 3 for a reason.......they are never a walk over unless you are implying they are?????
Oh, come on. I was referring to that particular test. Aus were in deep shit in that test. Have you forgotten or does that fact just not suit your little "theory"?
They went into the game with a shed load of injuries and then during the game they lost an additional few players through injury and they were down to 14 men at some stage as well. They were so thinned out that they used subs totally out of position. Brett Sheehan (SH) replacing injures Digby Ioane on the wing was one example.
Look here thick shit........ignite a backline does not mean that every ignition leads to a try you dumbass........he ignited the backs on the day, which created pressure on the defence, which directly and indirectly lead to tries being scored.......you get all this?
Called rugby basics
I would like to agree with you, but then we would both be wrong.
Jy's dof, Fokof!


