Stick with Dave

Willemse at 12

Many of us have been calling for Willemse at 12. That has been his preferred position lately for the Stormers.

Although when he moved to 15 during the test today, he continued his excellent form. Esterhuizen also had a really good game at inside center.

The move when Willemse combined with Williams to Esterhuizen was exceptional.

We need to move on from Delande now. Probably Kriel, and perhaps even Pollard.

Manie improved his tactical game knowing when to pass, kick or run.

Pollard is still our number 1.

he still controls the game better than anyone else.

Kriel and de Allende are our stalwarts.

let’s lean on them. Use their experience in the squad. Don’t be so quick to throw players away.

but I do agree that Willemse could well be our first choice for the eoyt

Chips, the voice of reason...who would've thought? ;-)

Willemse is good everywhere.

But he's much better at 15.

Srick with Dave?

You mean the Dave that told us how amazing DDA is? Dave, all of us agree on what the best backline is, give or take a player or two.

The difference between last week and this week, was midfield competence and skill.

Thank heavens, we are very unlikely to see DDA again. And I agree with VisKop, I'd also like to see the back of Kriel who I have never been a fan of.

...but the real standout was the kid who got chucked in at the deep end yet looked like one of the most experienced players on the field, Hooker. I love how he must be feeling right now. On top of the world and with massive and bright future ahead of him. You go my son!!!

NZers are already complaining because we had 2 hookers on the pitch for the whole match...

Kriel and de Allende are our stalwarts.

let’s lean on them.

There is truly no hope for anyone who, even after today, still can't see that DDA is the handbrake in the Bok backline. Use him for experience, but keep him off the playing field.

Dave, first of all. You called it. What a game.

Willemse at 15 every day. Once he moves to the back he became a real threat. His only only blot is not getting under the high ball a few times.

Then, Esterhuizen has to start at 12. Our momentum really shifted when he came on.

The backline that finished was very close to the same backline that whipped the All Blacks at Twickenham a few years back.

When Manie is on form the boks are unstoppable. It was very similar to what saw at Twickenham.

Manie, Esterhuizen, Moodie, Willemse, Kolbe.

Then Hooker had a great start. His catches were sublime. How about that break from the 22.

Seriously, when is the last time we saw a Bok 12 identify opportunity out wide and exploit it like Esterhuizen did when he sent Kolbe over with a double skip pass. That's the kind of thing we always had to rely on Willie to do.

Last week when DDA had Moodie open on the outside in a similar fashion (although a little further out), where a similar pass would beat the inside defense, he just booted the ball through the line straight to the All Blacks. Enough with this guy already, he simply doesn't have the software to identify anything going on outside him. Zero awareness of anything that's not right in front of him.

No chance in hell Willemse has to stay at 12

Esterhuizen is too old to invest in. It’s too late for him and Bok rugby

Esterhuizen is nothing different to de Allende and de Allende has over the years proved his worth despite the clowns comments on here

But we need to move on from the old guard which includes Esterhuizen

Willemse at 12 all day long

We need to move on from Dud…Esterhozen was terrific today

Esterhuizen is nothing different to de Allende

Blind as a bat.

Nope I’ve seen enough of Esterhuizen to know exactly what he is about

de Allende is better but only just - Rassie has been spot on selecting him over AE

But this is not about AE and DA it’s about the future which is Willemse at 12 with Hooker getting game time there as well

YAWN

:)

Disagree, today was total proof of how much playing Dud has held us back.

Bullshit - today had nothing to do with DA or AE but the collective spearheaded by the wonderful creativity of Willemse and the younger backs picked

These youngsters are all about creativity

de Allende, Jessie Kriel and Esterhuizen are not. Am was but he is done

last week Dud 11 runs for 19 meaningless metres

this week Esterhozen 6 runs for 34 metres….a try and a try assist.

say no more.

Bullshit - context in a rampant Bok side vs the tightness of the week before

AE has had numerous Bok starts and never really delivered anything that says drop DA

You can’t seriously suggest after witnessing that display of open rugby that we go back to stampkar rugby. But have you finally seen the value of Wiese?

Damian has to be the most fundamentally flawed centre I’ve ever seen. He possesses no finesse, no vision, no ability to read or anticipate play. His carries are blunt and ineffective, his defence has the tackle radius of a Jaffa Cake, and his impact is about as potent as a sneeze in a hurricane. He is a myth without substance, yet somehow untouchable.

In truth, he embodies the Erasmus era: a reign suspicious of flair, allergic to challenge, and terrified of big personalities that might expose the smallness of its gameplan and vision. Damian survives not on merit, but on a system designed to keep him there.

Some might say a bit harsh Deus, but fundamentally correct and funny!

No I’m saying play Willemse at 12 - we are done with DA and AE

Doos fuck off you ignorant prick

"Chips, the voice of reason...who would've thought? ;-)"

Well said that DB.

I've always thought of Chippo as quite an astute fellow. ; )

I've always thought of Chippo as quite an astute fellow. ; )

I've thought of him more as an ass-tit fellow.

@Saffex

Both ABs record losses have had AE at 12. Just saying pal.

Anyone that suggest that AE is not worth investing in at 31, does not know there Rugby.

Anyone thinking one should start investing in a 31 year old when you have a number of awesome younger options is a fucking idiot

Porker, your rugby logic is about as sound as your spelling.

First off, 31 is not “over the hill” for a centre, especially not one built like AE.

Ma’a Nonu was 33 when he destroyed the 2015 RWC, and Jean de Villiers was still Boks captain at 33.

AE,s game is based on power, direct running, and offloading, attributes that age well, not decline suddenly.

Secondly, the whole “we’ve got youngsters, so dump experience” argument is laughable.

Experience and depth win World Cups…See Frans Steyn at 35 in 2019, or Duane at 37 in 2023. The balance is what matters, not chucking proven world class players aside.

Lastly, your own point exposes you. Willemse only clicked when moved to 15, and AE’s introduction at 12 shifted momentum.

That doesn’t make him an “old option” it makes him a key weapon in 2027 if managed smartly.

So before calling people “idiots,” maybe actually know your Rugby instead of trying to sound like you do.

Dave, you never answered Moz RE Wiese.

Have you finally woken up and are you ready to admit that he's by some distance our best 8?

An actual master of the dark arts, as opposed to DDA who masters only dark farts.

Welcome back DX.

And just for the record….we don’t have to ‘invest’ in Esterhozen he is a vastly experienced center who is ready right now. That’s the beauty of the thing. He did exactly what we hoped for today, he only took contact when the shape demanded it. At any other time he put away the players outside him.

Mpuff you are so fucking thick - firstly Nonu was the incumbent at the time you dumbfuck, it’s not like he was introduced at that age - wake the fuck up

You are pathetically rugby ignorant - everything Willemse did including his try was playing in the 12 position it has nothing to do with him moving to fullback you dunce.

He was playing fullback but slotted back into 12 everytime he created something

As for Esterhuizen, he did nothing of note at 12 or anything that says he is better than DA

But feel free to point out what he did that particularly stood out. Everything he did was mostly related to playing the power game just like DA

So do us a favour and shut the fuck up as you are utterly clueless when it comes to the game

What did Wiese do that was that great - he was strong and powerful as he always is

Give me Roos or Hanekom all day long - power plus skill

Wiese had a good game, was it earth shattering to convince me he is our best 8 - NO

I like Wiese but I prefer ball playing 8’s like Roos and Hanekom especially with the backline we chose today

You can froth and swear all you like, but it doesn’t hide the fact that you’ve missed the actual rugby picture again.

Nonu point: Yes, he was the incumbent, but the point was never about when he broke through.

It’s about how long a world class 12 can remain effective.

If you think 31 is “too old” for Esterhuizen, you’ve clearly learned nothing from how players like Nonu, JDV, Frans Steyn, or even Duane delivered well into their 30s.

Context matters, not just your half baked insults.

Willemse at 12 vs 15: Funny how you contradict yourself.

You claim everything Willemse did was at 12, yet the Bok coaching staff themselves shifted him to 15 when Fassi went off, that’s not me talking, that’s the actual selectors.

Willemse can cover 12, but his most natural and dangerous role remains 15.

That’s exactly why Esterhuizen is crucial at 12 , he allows Willemse to roam and the Boks to attack with balance.

Esterhuizen’s value: You asking “what did he do?” shows your rugby eye is about as sharp as a bowling ball.

His carries over the gainline, offloads in contact, and defensive presence shifted the momentum when he came on.

It’s not always about flashy highlights, it’s about enabling the guys outside him to thrive.

AE’s power game and offloading add a different dimension. That’s why coaches value both.

I will keep talking rugby, you can keep throwing tantrums.

One of us is actually looking at the game, the other is just shouting swear words because he can’t win the argument.

Are you really this thick?

Willemse was moved to 15 because of the Fassi injury - obvious call you dumbfuck

But you are too fucking stupid to comprehend my point

While at fullback he did absolutely nothing from deep. When he did make an impression in the second half was when he slotted back into the 12 spot - go and watch the game again you idiot

What is the fucking point in investing in AE now when he is 31 when you have Willemse as the best candidate for 12 followed by Hooker - both the future

If we had no viable younger options at 12 post DA then fair enough play AE

But Willemse proved today he is the answer at 12 and Rassie needs to invest in him there from now on.

Unfortunately the fucking Fassi injury will probably put pay to that

I thought Esterhuizen was outstanding last night as an impact player. Bumped off Takeahau (spelling?) like he was a halfback and another AB forward who I’m struggling to name. Guess I’ll never know as I will NEVER be watching a replay of that game….

I dunno Moolaa with a bottle of nice Cloudy Bay Sauvignon blanc at your side you could watch it.

ghn

A regular drinker of Cloudy Bay Moz but even that won’t pull me out of my funk….

A regular drinker of Cloudy Bay Moz but even that won’t pull me out of my funk….