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FORUM / RUGBY /  The comparison between the AB.s and the Springboks

The comparison between the AB.s and the Springboks

Started by clevermike7 REPLIES268 VIEWS· 21 Oct 2015, 14:54
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Oct 2015, 14:54
#1
21 Oct 2015, 14:54#1
My own impression is that the situation is as follows:
Outside Backs
With Ben Smith at full back and Savea together with Milner-Skudder on the wing the AB's has the edge against the SA Combination.   Although atr rimnes dangerous the Le Roux, Pietersen and Habana is not competitive in this cartegory.   
Advantage - All Blacks
Centers
Nonu and Conrad Smith has expressed reservations about their youngster opponents.  In the last test they admitted to come out second best to De Allende and Kriel and they appear to be worried about De Allende in particular.   Smith has not really been on song this year and seems to be nearing retirement age rapidly.   
Advantage -  Evens
Half backs    
Carter is still a classic in world rugby as a flyhalf and Aaron Smith si the ebst scrummie in the world at present.  Although Pollard has been impressive early on and it is very early in his career - he si nto up to the class Carter is at present.  Du Preez has been excellent in the past and has good skills, but eh is coming to the end of hsi career.
Advantage - New Zealand
Back Row  
The AB's is likely to use Read,  McCaw and Kaino as their loosie combination to face Vermeulen, Burger and Louw.  Difficult to assess - Read and Vermeulen have  completely different playing styles and is an asset in line-outs and in looser play. However, not solid in tighter forward play.   As a blindisder I think that Burger shades Kaino - the latter is not what he used to be in 2011.   McCaw is still a top player - but not what he sued to be and can be a bit of a liability from a penalty and card perspective.  I would give him a slight edge over Louw.
Advantage  Even    
Locks
The big talk on the AB side is always how well Whitelock and Retallick do as a lock combination but they are both rather loose players - deficient in forward play.   Etzebeth and De Jager are different style players and definitely better as locks than the AB pair is.
Advantage - Springboks 
Props and Hooker  
This is where the real problem lies for the All Blacks - they havce for the first time in years a very good hooker - who is very good in the loose - but not noticewable in Tight 5 play.  There props have always been a problem - the weak link in an excellent team.  The Bok props are better than their AB counterparts and Bismarck remains a very good player.
Advantage - Springboks
There are clear evidence that the AB's has the upper hand in the abckline - but is at a disadvantage up front.  If the AB backline gets slow balls - the team is at a disadvantage  and that could where the battle is really won.  The ability of the AB's to get good balls for usage by the backline - if there is a deficiency there th AB chances of winnng the game is reduced.  
Forcing to get the AB's to commit more of their forward players to Tight 5 play is going to be a distinct advantage to the Springboks.
If De Jager is fit to play the situation as is above.  If he is not the crucial lock combination will turn to favour the AB's and that would have a major impact on the outcome of the game.       



 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Oct 2015, 15:03
#2
21 Oct 2015, 15:03#2
 Intangibles.....give us your view on the intangibles Mike.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
21 Oct 2015, 15:36
#3
21 Oct 2015, 15:36#3

Willie vs Smith......neither has been on fire, but Willie is better because of the creativity he brings to the Boks


JP vs Skud......Skud is an amazing player, JP is in form.......Skud gets my vote


Kriel vs Smith......Smith has done nothing of note all WC, like Jean he is done....Kriel is the real deal, cant beat his speed and feet. Give me Kriel anyday


de Allende vs Nonu......close call, but with more defenders beaten than any other centre in the WC, much like his stats for the s15, DA gets my vote


Habana v Savea.....Habana is in form, but Savea is on another planet......he walks it


Pollard vs Carter......close call, Pollard is attacking the advantage line well, but Carter is the best 10 in the game.....he gets it


du Preez vs Smith......no contest, Smith walks it with his speed of service and ability to add something with ball in hand. du Preez is meant to bring the rugby brain - that does not wash with me.


3-4 to the AB's in the backs......but its close throughout. 


Beast vs Woodcock/Crockett.......Beast has the edge on current form


Bismark vs Coles......close call, Coles is very good, but I give the edge to Bismark thanks to his brute strength


Malherbe vs Franks......nothing in it.....all square


Etzebeth vs Retallick.....very close call, but Eben has been the better of the two this WC......more physicality, which will be needed in the crunch games


Lood vs Whitelock.....both good players, but Lood has been the best lock in the WC, he edges it......again the physicality trumps it


Louw vs McCaw.......Richie walks it, Louw sells us short


Schalk vs Kaino/Messam.........Schalk is in great form....so I'll give him the edge


Vermeulen vs Read......too close to call, Vermeulen has found form at the right time.......all square


So that's 5-1 in the forwards with 2 squared


We have the edge in the forwards, they have the edge in the backs


They are a far more settled side, that are used to winning.


The only way we can beat them is to physically dominate them


Worst thing we can do is play the kicking game.......kicking on Smith, Skud and Savea would be suicide......the best back 3 in the game by some distance. Best two wings in the game, with a 15 close to being the same in his position.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Oct 2015, 16:03
#4
21 Oct 2015, 16:03#4
 I have clearly expressed my view on the various combinations - what do you regard as intangibles where I need to clarify issues.  
Where I do agree with Dave is a kicking game would kill us if Smith, Savea and Milner-Skudder get their hands on the balls.        
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
21 Oct 2015, 16:05
#5
21 Oct 2015, 16:05#5
I disagree Saff, we must use the kicking game against the AB's! Buuuuuuuuut, that does not mean kicking the ball directly down the throat of the most dangerous back line in world rugby. I mean tactical kicking! Chips and grubbers on rushing defense, turning opposition players around for field position. Getting the ball out, so that we can compete in the line-out and assert dominance with our set piece. However 50/50 up and unders that gain your team 10 meters are pointless. A well executed "kicking" game is effective in knockout rugby. Also, we CANNOT beat the AB's at their own game. If we try to play the "running" game, we will lose! 
In short, vary the game! Kick well tactically, but remember, get it wrong and the result will be detrimental! Vary the first receiver! Keep your opponent guessing! Don't always kick the ball away, possession is hard to come by. It is about balance! 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Oct 2015, 16:09
#6
21 Oct 2015, 16:09#6
 Intangibles like "will to win"...."fitness"....."passion"....."nerve"....."fatal weaknesses"...."history"...."pressure"..."leadership"...."ability to execute the model under pressure"....to name a few.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Oct 2015, 16:55
#7
21 Oct 2015, 16:55#7
 Let me go through those intangibles:-
Will to win - Present in both teamsFitness       - Present in both teams Passion      - Do not see a problem on either sideNerve         - Some question marks in both cases in WC environment - see history  Fatal Weaknesses  - Like what  People believe there are but mostly imaginaryHistory     - In WC environment both sides are vulnerable - NZ more so than SAPressure   - Younger players are less suspect than older ones who failed repeatedly in the past.Leadership -  Both sides has a core of experienced players providing leadership - problem on that is that the experience of some senior players do not match their performancesExecute Model Under Pressure -  Depends on the model being used.   If the model thus far by Meyer in this tournament is used - the Springboks will fail badly.
CA
carpetmuncherPro1,667 posts
21 Oct 2015, 19:07
#8
21 Oct 2015, 19:07#8
 i would like to add one comment the all blacks pack of forwards are not as bad as we think they are......we have never ever dominated a all black pack in the the alst 20 years so even thinking we can just rock up and bash our way over the line is arcanic as much as its stupid.
the all blacks players are bigger than us more conditioned and better suited to heavy weather conditions hence you cannot attack the players but need to stretch them on defence a bit to look for that momentum and space.

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