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FORUM / RUGBY /  The "gifted" Steph du Toit is a casualty

The "gifted" Steph du Toit is a casualty

Started by Mozart36 REPLIES841 VIEWS· 21 Oct 2015, 15:01
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Oct 2015, 15:01
#1
21 Oct 2015, 15:01#1
I guess HM prefers locks that aren't monstered by backs like Priestland. It's a very conservative view, but really only the lunatic fringe would prefer this totally out of his depth kid to be on the bench on Saturday. What amazed me about his short, 15 minute, half his tackles missed performance, is how much talking and arm waving he did.

So the great Stephanie experiment ....the rush to get him ready for the WC and select him over other better locks like Flip....has just been exposed for the hype it always was. Flip must be having a good old chuckle.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
21 Oct 2015, 15:09
#2
21 Oct 2015, 15:09#2

Yeah old clueless Meyer prefers his locks to be 38 years of age and 108kg's.


As for the reference to PSDT being monstered......could you please clarify this utter lie.


Hell had Matfield and Jean not been injured both would have been in the side that played Wales and that would have been Meyer's last game.


Thank fuck for the injuries to passengers like Jean and Vic.......the very reason we now find ourselves in the semi.......our two greatest liabilities were not part of the equation.


Sadly useless Matfield returns and I will not be surprised to see the tables turn against us as soon as he replaces Lood or Eben on Saturday.  

BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
21 Oct 2015, 15:42
#3
21 Oct 2015, 15:42#3
Mozter, with time, do you think that PSDT can be a great lock? Not poking fun, just want an honest answer. Is he simply not ready or is he a flawed player that will never make it?  Let us take Matfield/Alberts or anyone else that inevitably creeps into the argument, out of the equation. 
Just on Flip, the further that penalty machine is away from the Boks, the better!  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Oct 2015, 15:54
#4
21 Oct 2015, 15:54#4
 Mozaret are missing the boat again.  he alone is thinking that Flippie is a better lcok than De jager and Du Toit.  The normal BS from an addled brain.  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Oct 2015, 16:05
#5
21 Oct 2015, 16:05#5
 Mike I respect your deep convictions here but I have to demur.

Bloo I don't know and that's the point. He is three years into his career now and has hardly put a month of continuous rugby in the books. To me he doesn't look as strong as Etzebeth or even Lomp.....and watching him trying to make open field tackles he has little of Matfield's pure athleticism. In fact he looks kind of clumsy in his lateral moves.
My sense is if he didn't look like a kid, and his grandfather wasn't the great Piet Spiere we wouldn't even be talking about him. So at this point I'm guessing no on Stephanie.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
21 Oct 2015, 16:18
#6
21 Oct 2015, 16:18#6
 mozart
 
Status: Hall Of Fame 
Posts: 13894RE: The "gifted" Steph du Toit is a casualty
October 21, 2015, 16:05:06


So at this point I'm guessing no on Stephanie.






SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
21 Oct 2015, 16:22
#7
21 Oct 2015, 16:22#7

PSDT is the real deal......there is a reason this kid was rushed straight into the WC squad.......good old Moz has absolutely no idea when it comes to locks.


Hell I'm surprised he saw favour in Willemse, but no doubt that would have changed to  

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,281 posts
21 Oct 2015, 16:35
#8
21 Oct 2015, 16:35#8
The traffic conductor will not be required for this weekend. The voices are all in his head- and it is not part of the Meyers game plan
I am just surprised that Matfield is on the bench- and not starting.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,281 posts
21 Oct 2015, 16:38
#9
21 Oct 2015, 16:38#9
 Stephanie has decided that he will help conduct traffic outside the stadium where he is more needed

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Oct 2015, 16:40
#10
21 Oct 2015, 16:40#10
 SB
If Matfield starts we can kiss the little chance of SA winning on Saturday goodbye.  Matfield will give the AB's a 15 point advantage because of his total deficiency in Tight 5 play.
He is a liability reducing our Tight 5 to a Tight 4 - which we can at no cost afford.    Even on the bench he is a liability.   
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,281 posts
21 Oct 2015, 16:42
#11
21 Oct 2015, 16:42#11
 Clevermike, I thought lineout jumping and taking kickoffs were part of tight 5 play- especially for a number lock. As are the rolling mauls from the Matfield takes at the lineout
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
21 Oct 2015, 17:55
#12
21 Oct 2015, 17:55#12
Shark you are such a rugby guru!!!!  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Oct 2015, 18:24
#13
21 Oct 2015, 18:24#13
 SB
The taking of kick-offs is a rarity and not to my mind a norm.  Most of the kick-offs are not taken by the locks in any event - it is more an exception than the rule.  Matfield used to be very secure in that regard - but there has been signs of decline even in the rare case of balls being caught by Matfield.  Fact is he is no better than other recipients and in fact less strong in subsequent play.
Lets accept that in the present case - Matfield is no better in line outs than the younger and stronger locks are.   Matfield since June last year has taken a minimal number of line-out takes in opposition throw-ins - no more really than other players have taken based on a time on the field of play.  Matter of fact Matfield have fouled up key lin-outs as well - to eb spoecific against the AB's.    However, Matfield is a poor co-ordinator for driving mauls - he is too easily pushed to the side of such mauls and landing n the grass - having to join mauls afterwards.  .
There is nothing Matfield can do about it - he is not physically strong enough to play a role in the engine room.  For that reason he reduced the Tight 5 to a Tight 4 and we have lost competitiveness up front.   That is the major reason for lost tests since his return to play rugby on test level in those tests Matfield played in.    .    
BO
BokBFClub Pro421 posts
21 Oct 2015, 18:34
#14
21 Oct 2015, 18:34#14
 Shark don't let balance get in the way of a good hate campaign.Imagine if Victor had been bossed into touch like a school girl 5m from the line with only Barret to beat in 2014. Lost by 4 that day and Mike has been blaming Victor ever since.   
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Oct 2015, 18:41
#15
21 Oct 2015, 18:41#15
BokBF
Matfield fumbled the preceding line-out - end of story.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Oct 2015, 20:44
#16
21 Oct 2015, 20:44#16
When you say fumbled Mike, do you mean we lost possession?  
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
21 Oct 2015, 22:10
#17
21 Oct 2015, 22:10#17
TheseEGG splattered matfiled groupies are EGG magnets. Bwagahahahahahaha imagine thinking pap victor is better than Du Toit!!! I suppose you have to be thankful its dawning on.them that Lood is far better tan wee matfiled 105 kg and 38 years old.
BO
BokBFClub Pro421 posts
21 Oct 2015, 22:13
#18
21 Oct 2015, 22:13#18
 No he doesn't, possession was retained territory gained and we had the put in to the final scrum. Lood went wide to the right with Victor in support on the inside Barret put him away with ease. Game set and tears.That said Lood is a lot better now that he has a few more games under his belt, I am hopeful that he and Eben can start but I am also far happier to have Victor now available to play off the bench. In the final 20 it will be the muscle between the ears that could make all the difference. Just like last week. When that fat unfit old has been HM 'friend' who has been holidaying in Japan made a small contribution.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Oct 2015, 22:36
#19
21 Oct 2015, 22:36#19
What the Matfield detractors don't get is 2 plus 2 equals 3 when it comes to lock physicality. You play Lomp, Etzebeth does much less power running....is not the power tackler just off the ruck....and only takes his first lineout in the QF.

Lomp who by way of making the lineout calls becomes de facto  forward leader, tends to become the main man. Etzebeth's best WC match was against Samoa...much of his potential contribution has been supplanted in the other games.
In the meantime we miss Matfield's lineout skill, his handling, his kick off security, his marshalling  of the maul.
HM was probably right not starting Victor with his hammie and long layoff....but a fit Victor is by far the better choice.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
22 Oct 2015, 07:31
#20
22 Oct 2015, 07:31#20
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA this is superb comedy. One wouldnt believe it possisible. Now ou victor who flopped as the bulle captain and as the bulle attack coach is supposefly a rugby brain. BWHAHAHAHHAHA I cant wait to hear what other reasons these fertile imaginations will come up with regarding the extremely pap wer matfiled. NAME ME A PAPPER LOCK PLAYING AT YHE RWC OR INDEED PLAYING TEST RUGBY. IT CANT BE DONE. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I do hope it is dawning on the groupies our line out is just fine without wee victor.How embarrasing this has been for these poor oaks!
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
22 Oct 2015, 07:36
#21
22 Oct 2015, 07:36#21
 Fourie Du Preez doesnt need any help from dom victor. He has Schalk and Duanne to consult if needs be. What he needs is two genuine locks on the patk at all times. Hence what he doesnt need at all is the show pony!!!!
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
22 Oct 2015, 07:53
#22
22 Oct 2015, 07:53#22
 
PSDT is a class act. He should have been afforded a lot more game time than he was.

Even on a crutch he'll out perform the useless Matfield.

Lood blows hot and cold. There's no consistency in the man.


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Oct 2015, 07:58
#23
22 Oct 2015, 07:58#23
 CC
With respect I do not think you are fair in accusing De Jager of blowing hot and cold in matches - he was consistently good in all the tests he played in this year.  He was somewhat less than so in the game on Saturday - but I suspect it had a lot to do with the injury he sustained during the match.
He reains to my mind together with Etzebeth the top lock at prese nt.  
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
22 Oct 2015, 09:04
#24
22 Oct 2015, 09:04#24
 
Well, he is an improvement on Matfield ... but then again most are.

I don't think his injury was all that serious as I see he's chalked up to start this weekend.

There are times when he disappears in the match, especially in the last 20. We need more from a front line lock. Playing well every now and then doesn't do it for me.

Let's face it, he looks good when facing the chumps of the world ... but against a better opposition he shows himself up as average. 

Sorry!!
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Oct 2015, 09:08
#25
22 Oct 2015, 09:08#25
 CC
You are a bit ahrsh - De Jager looked good against the likes of Whitelock, Retallick, the Gray Brothers. Lamasini, etc as well.  I would not call them exactly the "chumps of the world"  
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
22 Oct 2015, 09:13
#26
22 Oct 2015, 09:13#26
Lood was a marked man against Wales! What, do you lot think Wales had not done their homework on him? He made lots of ground in the earlier games in the WC! They identified him as a threat, and they shut him down! Gave him no space to move. That is why he was so much less effective! Just like we shut down dangerous players like Lomu and Savea, because of the damage they can do! And no, I do not see him as the same type of threat as the two players mentioned, but a player that gets over the advantage line in a tight game, is a threat!  
BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
22 Oct 2015, 09:26
#27
22 Oct 2015, 09:26#27

 ...not so clever mike , has'nt Meyer been a bit premature in naming his team with so many players still injured..?...think yr team is gunna struggle with fitness given how long the season has been and the strength of our bench..

...will be the first time Pollard has faced DC as well....Kriel and de Allande haven't faced the pairing of Nonu and SBW either...

...and how Habana must be dreading having to mark Savea...good luck with that..

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
22 Oct 2015, 09:31
#28
22 Oct 2015, 09:31#28
Brycy, it'll be JP Pietersen vs Julian Savea and Bryan Habana vs Nehe Milner-Skudder.

You seem quite sure that Sonny Bill Williams will replace Conrad Smith. Is that based on anything factual or just a hunch?
BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
22 Oct 2015, 09:41
#29
22 Oct 2015, 09:41#29
 ...pretty sure the coaching staff will have noted how great that centre combo worked against the French ...not sure whether it was planned but if Conrad Smith struggles there against yr centres we have other options available...call it plan B..
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
22 Oct 2015, 10:23
#30
22 Oct 2015, 10:23#30

Nonsense, when Etzebeth and Lood play together why on earth would one of them be less involved in the physical stuff be it tackles made or taking the ball up.


The stats tell us otherwise anyway........in the last game against Wales, Lood and Etzebeth received similar amount of balls and both made similar metres......there was 1m in it.


Fact is Matfield adds nothing different to the line-outs or kick-offs, the notion that he reigns supreme in these aspects of play is a load of utter rubbish. He is no better or worse than Etzebeth, Lood or PSDT in the line-outs and the stats prove that.


In modern day tests you cant afford to have a tightforward who lets you down in the physical stakes, do that and you concede the physical edge. There is a reason we have started winning again......we are dominating the physical battles. This physical dominance far outweighs the odd open field tackle or pass that pap Vic makes.


Without doubt in my mind, Matfield has been our biggest liability on the field since he returned to the Boks......he is too old and too small to live as a test lock. He is not capable of imposing himself physically......there can be no greater sin in a test lock.


Its the very reason the very talented and tenacious Mostert of the Lions will never be considered at test level.  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
22 Oct 2015, 15:01
#31
22 Oct 2015, 15:01#31
 Lomp is very consistent. He is a flat track bully.....ball hogging and effective against weak teams. Largely impotent against a slightly stronger team like Wales. He will probably be much less obvious and a non factor against the ABS. Far, far too much has been made of his play against weak teams. Bargies in Durban and Wales had no problem with him.
But he is better than Stephanie, who is also consistent...consistently a non factor....not particularly agile, not particularly strong. A creation of the Sharks publicity machine.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
22 Oct 2015, 15:07
#32
22 Oct 2015, 15:07#32

Bullshit, Lood was the best lock on the field against Wales....we cant ask more of him.


As for PSDT well its going to be the same smarting you are doing now when it comes to Lood


You should pack it in to save some face  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
22 Oct 2015, 15:12
#33
22 Oct 2015, 15:12#33
 Oh sure....you mean like the egg you have been eating on JJ et al? I think not.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
22 Oct 2015, 15:22
#34
22 Oct 2015, 15:22#34

Nope no egg at all, JJ's performance that year as a Bok was outstanding, the fact that useless Meyer dropped him is hardly the measure.....unless you think a coach with such a poor record somehow carries weight?


You are too fucking stupid to see past the obvious......had a coach like Hansen dropped JJ, then I might have taken your ignorance seriously. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
22 Oct 2015, 15:45
#35
22 Oct 2015, 15:45#35
What embarrassing twaddle.  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
22 Oct 2015, 15:48
#36
22 Oct 2015, 15:48#36
Only thing that is embarrassing is you lending so much weight to useless Meyer......your track record of backing losers is legendary  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Oct 2015, 16:33
#37
22 Oct 2015, 16:33#37
 Mozart
With respect - I think you are losing the plot here.  The Wallabies certainly had a problem with De Jager when he came on at minute 17 after Matfield's non-performance and his benching as a result of an injury.   The AB's also had a problem with him in the game in the RC.  
He was the best lock thus far in the WC - whether you like it or not.  
The problem is that whenever Matfield played this year - he was very very weak.  Even though he played only 17 minutes in the AB game - he did squat in that time and was a lost course.   In the Argentina away game against what obviously was more a B-team - he did nothing of note either.   In the Japan game he was really not up to standard and in the subsequent Samoa game - De Jager did more in 20 minutes than Matfield did in the 60 minutes he was on the field of play.
In essence Matfield should be nowhere near the squad and Meyer made a serious mistake in selecting a player that contributes so little to forward play.           
— END OF THREAD —

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