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The Popular Team recorded for posterity

Started by Mozart24 REPLIES376 VIEWS· 29 Jun 2015, 23:12
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Jun 2015, 23:12
#1
29 Jun 2015, 23:12#1

Here is the team many would want in the RC final. I actually share one or two selections, but not the vast bulk of them....recorded here on this string so posters can have their say and be accountable in the months and years ahead.

 

Kriel

Combrink

Voster

Stepfontein

Senatla

Lambie

Reinach

 

Kitshoff

Armand vd Merwe

Koch

Lood

Stephanie

Kriel

Marcel

Arno

 

 

Sure I know nobody wants to sign up for the team....it does look kind of feeble exposed like that. And I'm sure Pollard, de Allende and Vermeulen might be on many lists.   But these are the players fans are howling for HM to select.

 

So lets see how they progress, it should be interesting.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 Jun 2015, 23:19
#2
29 Jun 2015, 23:19#2
 Nah here's your and Meyers side old chap....more in line with ignorance personified.
15. Kirchner 14. Habana 13. Fourie 12. Jean 11. Hendricks 10. Morne 9. Pienaar 1. Heinke v/d Merwe 2. Britz 3. Jannie 4. Mostert 5. Matfield 6. Louw 7. Schalk 8. Alberts
Bloody joke of a side but up your street....its just a shame de Jongh, Steenkamp and Bakkies never made the squad for you could have added them as well  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 Jun 2015, 23:21
#3
29 Jun 2015, 23:21#3
 Sign me up for that side over any crap you or Meyer will come up with and have me on record saying that we will end up third in the RC and we won't get past the quarters in the WC.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Jun 2015, 23:24
#4
29 Jun 2015, 23:24#4
Veterans are better at 14, 13, 12, 10, 9, 3,  4, 5, 6, 7 &  8  ....11 places.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
29 Jun 2015, 23:43
#5
29 Jun 2015, 23:43#5
 Only problem is that Fury is the only veteran at 13 in Meyers group and there are some serious questionmarks about his form. The only really experienced 12 is Jean, and he is still doubtful at best. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jun 2015, 00:03
#6
30 Jun 2015, 00:03#6
 Mozart
You are not truthful when quoting that team as popular choices - the whole thread is based on falsehoods.  Of the seven names quoted as backline players contain 5 names which are not first choice players of anybody on this site - some are at best bench selections.  The same applies to five of the eight forwards.   Are you trying to be funny or just plain stupid.
Your own team you posted a while ago are known test losers based on performances years ago.  They were mostly atrocious in the 2011 WC and will be much worse in 2015.  Instead of providing totally false info on this site - why do you not repeat that joke you published on this site as a suggested WC team?  We are seriously short of laughing matter.     
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jun 2015, 00:03
#7
30 Jun 2015, 00:03#7
 Duplication
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jun 2015, 00:03
#8
30 Jun 2015, 00:03#8
 Duplication
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jun 2015, 00:03
#9
30 Jun 2015, 00:03#9
 Duplication
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,284 posts
30 Jun 2015, 00:13
#10
30 Jun 2015, 00:13#10
duplication
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
30 Jun 2015, 00:45
#11
30 Jun 2015, 00:45#11
 duplication
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Jun 2015, 00:57
#12
30 Jun 2015, 00:57#12
 Story of  Tokkie's posting  life....duplication
RC
Rassie Coach of the YearRookie31 posts
30 Jun 2015, 10:36
#13
30 Jun 2015, 10:36#13
 Check this out. All in one post:

clevermike


Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 17490
Dix of the seven names quoted as backline players contain 5 names which are not first choice players of anybody on this site - some are at best bench selections.


...and then he has the nerve to ask:

Are you trying to be funny or just plain stupid.

Dix (sic) names contain five names......
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Jun 2015, 12:15
#14
30 Jun 2015, 12:15#14

What a load of utter crap.....that veteran side is an insult, but you are too clueless to know the difference........the fact that that kind of side keeps losing seems to make no impression on you......its why you and Meyer are the laughing stock.......its pretty sad when you think that the class of 10 years ago still has the goods to be a winning side.......talk about ignorance but more to the point......conservatism of the highest order.


Imagine concluding that Fourie is better than Vorster, or that Jean is better than de Allende or Serfontein, that Morne is better than Pollard, Jantjies, Lambie or Goosen (you would have to be plain stupid to conclude this), that Pienaar or du Preez are better than Faf or Reinach.......that Jannie is better than Malherbe.....let me guess veteran Bakkies or Flip is better than Etzebeth at 4......but the best of all is Matfield better than PSDT (what a fucking joke - sums you and Meyer up to a T), Louw better than Kolisi, Kriel or Coetzee, what a joke.......Alberts better than du Plessis......another laugh.


Moz you are absolutely clueless.......but hey as soon as your veterans start winning us matches, I'll concede I was wrong.......its never going to happen though........the likes of Kirchner, Fourie, Jean, Morne, Pienaar, du Preez, Jannie, Matfield, Louw and Alberts have so chance in hell with living with sides like NZ, Oz, England, Ireland, France and Wales.......we have already seen the product of Meyers side against NZ, Oz, Wales and Ireland last season......its only going to get worse this season.......for that fool has muted that he wants to play a kicking game in NH conditions and that's is why he wants Morne and Kirchner back in the equation.......watch this space.


Lets just hope that post the RC and WC you are man enough to admit you are wrong......Meyer will be toast and it will be time for SA rugby to bring in the next fool......its been ages since we had a worthy coach.


I feel for you being such a conservative supporter must be really boring seeing so much in the old and very little in the new.  

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Jun 2015, 13:35
#15
30 Jun 2015, 13:35#15

For the record......the real team that should be recorded for posterity should be:


15. Willie 14. Senatla 13. de Allende 12. Serfontein 11. Jessie Kriel 10. Pollard 9. Faf 1. Kitshoff 2. Bismark 3. Malherbe 4. Willemse 5. Etzebeth 6. Coetzee 7. Jacques du Plessis 8. Vermeulen


16. Strauss 17. Coenie 18. Marcel v/d Merwe 19. PSDT 20. Arno Botha 21. Hougaard 22. Jantjies 23. Vorster


A real Bok side, not one containing a bunch of geriatrics who should have handed in their notice seasons ago.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Jun 2015, 16:41
#16
30 Jun 2015, 16:41#16

Did I choose the team of Veterans Dave....no it was you who chose them.

 

Now let me go through the list.

 

15 I never, ever picked Kirchner for anything ....you did, very aggressively.

 

14 Habana is still the best wing in the country by a miles

 

13 Fury was never a favourite of mine, but he was better than JJ even in 2013

 

12 Jean was still our best centre last year,  but I have never picked him since his knee injury, we have to see the effect first.

 

11 Hendricks is not in any team I have selected this year, his defence is too poor.

 

10) I was the original Pollard picker, and I stick with that....but I'd rather have Morne on the bench than little old Lambie.

 

9) We need an experienced F Du Preez or Pienaar. I would play Faf off the bench but his kicking is too poor to start....he launched some awful kicks in the Stormers contest.

 

1) Never picked Heinke...I was the first poster to point out he pushes up.

 

2) Britz....I never picked Britz when he was one of the flavours of the day....pointed out he didn't do enough in the tight.

 

3) Jannie is still our best bet not to get us in trouble against a top scrumming pack....Malherbe is more destructive when we are on top.

 

4) Mostert.....I can't recall ever making one single comment about Mostert. Now if you said Willemse you would have been right....I was an early fan, but we havent seen him for a year.

 

5) Victor....the greatest lock to play the game

 

6) Louw....he was a huge loss on the YE tour....Marcel was a non factor.

 

7) Schalk....still making you and the AAS eat crow after all these years. One of the greats.

 

8) Alberts another big loss on the YE tour he was domimating in 2013. But show me one team where I haven't picked Vermeulen.

 

 

So Dave as usual my positions on the various players is much more accurate than yours, much more subtle and deeply thought through.....hope that helps.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jun 2015, 17:26
#17
30 Jun 2015, 17:26#17
 Mozart
There are some real funnies in your latest comments.Lets gpo through a few of your comments:-
13. "Fury was never a favourite of mine, but he was better than JJ even in 2013."   Maybe he was better than JJ - but he was slow and totally unproductive in carrying of balls - making a total of 8 meters in 8 carries in three tests.   Davies twice ran past him and he never even made an effort to tackle him.    The only thing that could remotely count in his favour is the fact that he made tackles when he did attempt them.   So do you know really whether he is any good at this stage?  If he was slow two years ago after another two years playing "soft" rugby in Japan - would he at 33 years of age be even slower?   With due respect Serfontein in 2014 put up a better show than Fourie did in 2013.   However, I do not favour Serfontein for 13 and favour a better solution.   He should be in the RWC squad  only if he plays in the RC tests - but of that there seems to be a zero chance.
12.  "Jean was still our best centre last year,  but I have never picked him since his knee injury, we have to see the effect first.      Jean was considerably poorer last year than he was in 2013.  Not sure about the "best center" allegation is correct.
10.   "but I'd rather have Morne on the bench"   That is th worst bench selection applicable - his performances in his last three tests (two against Argentina and the Perth test) could best be remembered as a determined effort on his part to lose the games for the Springboks.   His performances should be enough to run for cover.
9.     "We need an experienced F Du Preez or Pienaar".   Do you know anything about the performances of these two  players for their clubs.   Are they in fact still up to standard?   Will Du Preez at 33 be match-fit.   He was not match-fit in June last year and did squat in the Welsh tests and in fact because of that got injured seriously.   He was off for the rest of the year - played 9 matches for his Japanese club - came back to SA claiming he is "training quietly at home".    Would not play in Super 15 and when he  went back to Japan he was obviously unfit and got injured in a training session there.   He will not play any matches before the WC - and should he be selected base only on "experience" without any regard to performance at all?   Pienaar is a similar case - can he still perform?  Ulster did not do very well this year - so what can be expected from him?
3.    "Jannie is still our best bet not to get us in trouble against a top scrumming pack".  Did you forget about how Jannie was in full reverse gear against the Argentinians and how he gave away a huge number of penalties as a result of defective scrumming subsequently?   
5.     "Victor....the greatest lock to play the game"   Is that a fact or just part of your day-dreaming?   However at 38 years of age does what he did in the past automatically qualify him for selection in 2015?   Is he strong enough physically to be a lock and effective in the Tight 5?
 8.    "Alberts another big loss on the YE tour he was dominating in 2013."    I ask questions about the other players - but in this case there is no need for questions.  He was the most ineffective loosie in 2013 - and was a disgrace at best.  Wake up and smell the roses.
          
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Jun 2015, 18:05
#18
30 Jun 2015, 18:05#18

Oh what utter horse shit


As much as you never chose the veterans side, no-one chose the youthful side you chose.


I never selected Kirchner aggressively, yes I rated him in his day, his day is long gone - that's the point.


Habana is not the best wing in the country, when last did he do anything of note.....the likes of Sithole, Combrink, Kolbe, v/Wyk and Senatla are better these days


Fourie was not better than JJ, JJ's test performances under Meyer were outstanding, in particular his test against the AB's......Fourie has not delivered anything close to what JJ did in his test year. Fourie was great in his day, that day is long gone. JJ is the not the choice right now......the likes of de Allende, Vorster, Jessie Kriel, Frans Venter and Mapoe are......they are far far better than useless Fourie who gained all of 8m in 4 tests in his last outing for the Boks, not beating a single defender in the process.


Jean was NOT the best centre last year, he was poor.....did absolutely nothing of note and will be that much poorer after his serious injury. Serfontein out of position at 13 was better than Jean last year. Serfontein, de Allende, Frans Venter, Frans Steyn and Vorster are all better options at 12 these days. Jean is done.


Morne in anyones side is insulting.....he is one of the worst 10's the Boks have ever had.....up there with Koen and Braam v/Straaten......I'd rather have Coleman or Catrakillis on the bench than useless Morne......the likes of Pollard, Jantjies, Lambie and Goosen are twice the players plodder Morne has ever been. Finding favour in Morne sums your conservative outlook up.


Pienaar is a joke, lacks the hard edge, we don't need a kicking 9. The notion that Faf's kicks are poor is absolute rubbish. du Preez is a crock, when last did he do anything of note.


Jannie has long been surpassed by the likes of Malherbe, Koch, Marcel and Coenie.


Victor is a joke these days, he is 6 years past his sell by date...........Etzebeth, Lood, Willemse, PSDT, Lewies, Mostert, Ruan Botha and Jacques du Plessis are all far far better.


Louw has never been that good, 6 has never been his spot......average player.....Coetzee is twice the player......the likes of Brussouw, Kriel, Kolisi and Carr are all better options.


Alberts has been useless for some time now, the likes of Jacques du Plessis at 7 makes him look like a child. Alberts is past it.


I think you will find I have been talking Schalk up, but of course you have conveniently chosen to ignore that.


I'd be happy with Schalk in the squad......would I select him ahead of the host of quality young loosies we have - NO.


Your take on the players mirrors that of Meyer so has absolutely nothing to do with accuracy and everything to do with rugby ignorance of the highest order. Its the same take that has us coming second for almost 50% of the time.....just take last year for instance.


Moz you keep backing washed up hasbeens, get with the NOW for goodness sake......your choices were good 5 to 6 years ago.


If my side of 15. Willie 14. Senatla 13. de Allende 12. Serfontein 11. Jessie Kriel 10. Pollard 9. Faf 1. Kitshoff 2. Bismark 3. Malherbe 4. Willemse 5. Etzebeth 6. Coetzee 7. du Plessis 8. Vermeulen 16. Strauss 17. Coenie/Nyakane/Beast 18. Marcel v/d Merwe/Koch 19. PSDT 20. Arno Botha/Kolisi/Kriel/CJ 21. Hougaard/Reinach 22. Jantjies/Lambie/Goosen 23. Vorster/Frans Venter/Odendaal/Sithole/Frans Steyn ......had a year's run together and failed, I'd start listening to you.....it would never happen though......for that side would beat the AB's more than 50% of the time and would never lose to the likes of Wales and Ireland......for that side represents the best players in each position (open to debate here and there).......not a bunch of old farts who used to carry that status.


DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
30 Jun 2015, 18:16
#19
30 Jun 2015, 18:16#19
 Saf, that side of yours looks good in general, but they will only become a team in their second season together. The cohesion just won't be there right from the start.
Edit: see in bold
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Jun 2015, 18:22
#20
30 Jun 2015, 18:22#20
Dave your side might not make the quarters. As for Kirchner, a few years back you were lecturing me how ready Kirchner was...just as  you lecture me about Steppie today.
But I had it right then and I have it right now.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Jun 2015, 18:27
#21
30 Jun 2015, 18:27#21
As Draad says, my side looks good.....take note Moz.......move on from that conservatism....it must be so boring if nothing else  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Jun 2015, 18:34
#22
30 Jun 2015, 18:34#22
It's not boring to me Dave. You are 99 per cent interested in selection. I am more interested in how we can use our resources to fashion a winning effort....that involves selection....but of the team....it involves factoring in the occasion....our opposition and a strategy that could give us an edge.
Oddly enough we overlap sometimes. I would give Senatla a chance, because in our game of counter attack express pace plays a key role. 
But Kriel could be the better choice given his experience under the high ball...in this instance I think you are right, wing probably suits him better than 13.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
01 Jul 2015, 11:49
#23
01 Jul 2015, 11:49#23

While all that makes perfect sense......your other choices do not......why on earth would you want Matfield and Morne involved for instance.......these guys are not remotely the best, 2nd or 3rd best in their positions these days.


It seriously makes no sense to me  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Jul 2015, 16:45
#24
01 Jul 2015, 16:45#24
But Dave.....Jake White leaving out Watson, bringing back Os and playing Monty made no sense to you in 2007. Best we leave your "senses" out of it.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
01 Jul 2015, 17:23
#25
01 Jul 2015, 17:23#25

Given how average Jake was as a coach with his 60% odd overall win record......I'd hardly use him as the measure now Moz......but then again your standards are pretty low and 60% odd probably works for you.


I'd say Jake was on a par with Meyer, equally average at best.......both piss poor when it comes to selections.


Os was average in that WC and apart from Percy's boot he added absolutely no value with ball in hand, was always a liability in defence......both were past their prime.


We won that WC thanks to a good squad of players, an easy ride to the final and the help of Eddie Jones......it had little to do with Jake, who's record leading up to that WC was a disgrace

 

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