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FORUM / RUGBY /  Three theories about the Stormers match debunked

Three theories about the Stormers match debunked

Started by Mozart11 REPLIES352 VIEWS· 08 Jun 2015, 23:51
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Jun 2015, 23:51
#1
08 Jun 2015, 23:51#1

I was told after posting a few observations that Jantjies had a good game by Dave, that Vorster ran past de Jongh twice by Mike,  that the WP scrum was dominant by Dave  and that Malherbe never got a scrumming penalty by Mike. Mostly wrong impressions. Here goes:

 

1) Jantjies had a good game:

 

* Minute 1.22 Cat runs through Jantjies

 

* Minute 36.30 Jantjies drops out directly into touch

 

* Minute 47 He throws a hospital pass in front of his posts.

 

* Minute 51.30 Jantjies throws a couple of hospital passes to runners who are gobbled up by Etzebeth...then kicks aimlessly on Kolbe who runs, regathers and puts Carr away for a try.

 

* Minute  57.54 Jantjies throws an unexpected pass to Acker who controls with difficulty and is thumped and turned.

 

* Minute 61.34 Jantjies misses touch from behind the line Kolbe gathers, drops for goal but misses.

 

 

* Minute 64.40 A low, wobbly  pass from Jantjies is dropped by Mnisi...Jantjies exits stage right.

 

 

 

2 Vorster ran past de Jongh twice.

 

In fact Vorster beat 5 defenders, none of whom was de Jongh. But at minute 27.44 Carr easily beats Vorster. He also got overpowered and beaten by de Allende at minute 41, dumped by Kitshoff at minute 5.25, drawn out of line to release Etzebeth at minute 10.40

 

* Minute 18.23 he gathers a kick ahead and beats Mbonami....he then disappears until minte 62.15

 

* Minute 62.15 Vorster gets an inside pass and beats a pathetic  Kolisi tackle and Mbonami again.

 

* Minute 80.17 Vorster badly beats de Allende who had him in his sights...to keep the Lions moving.

 

* Minute 81.28 Vorster beats Coleman and makes crucial metres.....seconds later de Jongh who is on the other side of the park makes the crucial steal to save the game.

 

 

 

3 The WP scrum dominated.

 

 

 This is true insofar as it goes the Stormers got a tighthead and 3 penalties....the Lions 2 penalties at scrum time. But most contests were close and each pack had their moments. There are two scrums, one at the end of the game, that I missed.

 

* Minute 12.21 The Lions dominate the hit... a second shove from the Stormers but Kitshoff draws a penalty for scrumming round.

 

* Minute 19.35 ...3 resets and then the Lions penalized for an early shove.

 

* Minute 23.56 more collapsed scrums and Vd Merwe penalized for over extending

 

* Minute  38 vd Merwe penalized.

 

* Minute 43.01 Stormers edge a messy scrum

 

*  Minute 49.46 Kitshoff dominates the scrum, Stormers tighthead. If there is any dominance in these scrums it's Kitshoff who is vastly improved on a year ago.

 

*  Minute  56.30 scrums collapses but play goes on.

 

* Minute 66 Scrum collapses and Stormers penalized.

 

 

4 Malherbe wasn't penalized at scrum time.

 

Yes he was. Malherbe and vd Merwe were both over extending....every call could have gone either way. At minute 66 the call came that "Blue 3 over extended"....Malherbe.

 

This was an interesting set of circs. Against Marcel vd Merwe....Schalk van der Merwe was scrumming up and popping Marcel. Against Malherbe he was falling flat as is Malherbe's wont. It would be more reassuring if our tightheads maintained position.

 

That's it.

DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
09 Jun 2015, 10:45
#2
09 Jun 2015, 10:45#2
Nice work Mozart. I couldn't have been bothered to go through another game for so little response from the herd. They like to graze in barren pastures, it's all the rage or so I gather. So this is much appreciated.




SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Jun 2015, 12:09
#3
09 Jun 2015, 12:09#3

What a load of rubbish......Jantjies was the best SA 10 on display on the weekend, by some distance......and by his season standards, he had at best a solid game.


Vorster was twice the 13 de Jongh was. de Jongh was the least effective SA 13 on the weekend......JJ, Vorster and Venter were all far better with ball in hand.....it was not even close.


The Stormers scrum without doubt had the upper hand......it was not even marginal  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Jun 2015, 14:17
#4
09 Jun 2015, 14:17#4

Actually Dave I thought JJ's performance was so sublime  that I would name him the best South African centre since Danie Gerber. Hold on....you said that already. Bwaaahahahaha!

 

Janties was poor, edgy and unpredictable in a bad way....brought his team no flow, no confidence.

 

The WP scrum got the upper hand in about 2 scrums....but only Kitshoff had moments of dominance.

 

Vorster was unimpressive defensively and his attacking play came mostly after the hooter.....de Jongh was the best South African centre defensively by a mile.

 

Malherbe still has his extending issue. It hasn't come to the fore in prior games because of Stormers dominance...it showed up again on Saturday.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Jun 2015, 15:50
#5
09 Jun 2015, 15:50#5

Jantjies was anything but poor, he was instrumental in his sides draw against the impressive Stormers side.....your take is a load of shit, he was neither edgy or unpredictable unless you can name the incidents.


The Stormers scrum was dominant for the most, that was thanks to Kitshoff and Malherbe continuing their dominance and great form of the season.


Ah so Vorster beat 5 defenders and made 3 clean breaks after the hooter......what a pathetically lame one even by your standards.


de Jongh had the best defensive stats, but only just......I'll give you that......but he was the worst by some distance with ball in hand and that is what really counts.


He was bog ordinary as he has been for the past 3 years......a joke

DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
10 Jun 2015, 12:46
#6
10 Jun 2015, 12:46#6
 "Jantjies was anything but poor, he was instrumental in his sides draw"

That could be interpreted as a subtle concession that you were wrong. Alas, if only the Lions had more composure at 10 it could have been a 10! The kind we saw from Cat. Jantjies is not Bok material, mostly because he is, as you admitted, very much like Blooper.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Jun 2015, 13:39
#7
10 Jun 2015, 13:39#7

Can you imagine Jantjies against the ABs in a WC semi or final, trying to keep his composure. We have seen this guy succeed at S15, fail at S15, build back up again to succeed......only to fail again as the pressure built towards the end of the tournament.

 

 

In test rugby he would go through the same cycle of establishing himself again....it will never happen. Pollard has mental strength an essential element for a succesful test flyhalf....Jantjies doesn't. Comparing their play in routine S15 games means very little.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Jun 2015, 13:59
#8
10 Jun 2015, 13:59#8
I'm yet to see him lose his composure this year......he has been fantastic all season......your takes are based on historic crap.....just shows how ignorant both of you are......but more to the point, you lack the ability to move on from the past and acknowledge a players development.......typically conservatism.......but to be expected  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Jun 2015, 14:04
#9
10 Jun 2015, 14:04#9
Typical realism you mean  ....your rose colo ured glasses view is to be expected. The only reason for his 1 out of 5 record for his last 5 kicks is lack of composure.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Jun 2015, 15:57
#10
10 Jun 2015, 15:57#10

Ah so its composure that causes him to miss his kicks.....what about his general play, where he has been bloody fantastic, in fact a revelation

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Jun 2015, 21:54
#11
10 Jun 2015, 21:54#11
Yep...it's composure, or bottle  if you prefer. 
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
11 Jun 2015, 11:05
#12
11 Jun 2015, 11:05#12
You know, it's not even the fact that Dave likes Jantjies that gets me. It's the extremity of it all. It's like he is bi-polar: everything is either the greatest thing on earth or the most detestable thing he ever laid eyes on. I guess it really is the best of times, the worst of times for ou Dave! LOL!

Jantjies has his strengths, as well as his weaknesses. And if his strengths appeal enough to you to take a punt on him, then that's your right. But you spit your dummy out when someone recounts specific events that speak negatively of him, well that's ridiculous. On the weekend Jantjies did not have a good game . The negatives were significant and for me reaffirms the concerns I had by putting his season into proper context. These are red flag moments.
— END OF THREAD —

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