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Top 20 Boks of the last 20 years....SARugby mag

Started by Mozart45 REPLIES621 VIEWS· 23 Apr 2015, 03:02
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MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Apr 2015, 03:02
#1
23 Apr 2015, 03:02#1

To mark its 20th anniversary, SA Rugby magazine selected the 20 best Springboks since 1995. Here's who made the list ...

ANDRÉ JOUBERT
Affectionately known as the ‘Rolls-Royce of fullbacks’, Joubert was a dangerous runner when coming into the line, solid under the high ball and on defence, and had a good left boot. He was also courageous, as shown when he broke his hand in the Boks’ quarter-final against Samoa at the 1995 World Cup. As captain Francois Pienaar revealed in his book, Rainbow Warrior, Joubert used the injured hand to knot his tie after the game, without showing any signs of pain, before going for an operation that night to have metal pins inserted to stabilise it. The fullback would spend two sessions in a decompression chamber to reduce the swelling and wear a protective glove, which was flown in from Ireland, for the semi-final against France and final against New Zealand. When asked in 2013 how he had managed to perform so well with a broken hand, without painkillers or injections, Joubert put it down to the ‘power of the mind’. After his 1995 heroics, he would be named SA Player of the Year in 1996, before playing the last of his 34 Tests in 1997. – Simon Borchardt

PERCY MONTGOMERY
Montgomery’s finest match, in the context of his career and the significance of the outcome, was the 2007 World Cup final in Paris. He tore the cruciate ligaments in his knee within the first 20 minutes of the match but refused to leave the field, getting the knee strapped as tight as possible and kicking four penalties in the Springboks’ 15-6 win against England. Coach Jake White described his performance as one of the most heroic and bravest he had seen. Montgomery said he had prepared his entire career for the occasion of a World Cup final and wasn’t prepared to give in to injury. Maligned in the early stages of his career, he proved to be everything but a show pony, especially in his last four years as an international player. He attributed his growth to the three years he spent playing club rugby in Wales, which also evoked a passion to play international rugby again and return to South Africa to make a meaningful and lasting contribution to Springbok rugby. Montgomery achieved this goal with his influential role in the Boks’ 2007 World Cup campaign, where he maintained an 80% goal-kicking success rate. He also became Springbok rugby’s first Test centurion post the World Cup success and is the leading point-scorer in Springbok rugby. – Mark Keohane

CHESTER WILLIAMS
Williams defied racial prejudice, career-threatening knee injuries and the game’s most physical opponents to leave his imprint as one of the greats of the South African game and one of the world’s best wings of his era. Paraded as the face of South Africa’s hosting of the 1995 World Cup, he experienced a fairytale tournament after initially being ruled out because of injury. Williams tore a hamstring a month before the tournament, but recovered to be drafted into the squad at the quarter-final stage when suspension ended wing Pieter Hendriks’s World Cup. Williams responded with a brilliant display of finishing to score four tries in the quarter-final win against Samoa and played the semi-final and final as the starting left wing. Injury would curtail his international career post the World Cup but he fought back from several operations to again play for the Springboks in 2000 and played his last Test that year in the 23-13 win against Wales. He remained involved in the game as the coach of the Springbok Sevens team that won bronze at the 2002 Commonwealth Games and finished runners-up in the World Series in the same year. He would further his professional coaching career in Uganda, Tunisia and in Romania, where he guided RCM Timisoara to the premier provincial title. He has also been actively involved in developing the game in Brazil and this year the national domestic championship was renamed in his honour. He has ambitions of coaching the Springboks but his legacy will always be his World Cup-winning contribution of 1995. – Mark Keohane

BRYAN HABANA
In his pomp, Habana was the most lethal finisher in the game. His ability to hurt the opposition in a myriad ways earned him the respect of the rugby world and won the Springboks games they would otherwise have lost. His top-end speed was celebrated most often, but it was his acceleration from a standing start that engineered many of his scoring opportunities. He needed little space to operate, dancing and dinking his way through crowds of would-be tacklers. Once he shifted through the gears, Habana would more often than not leave a clutch of defenders in his wake. The mere sight of him on the field of play would unsettle the opposition. Often they’d deploy multiple markers in a bid to nullify his threat, which simply created space for his teammates to exploit elsewhere on the field. It was no surprise that he became the Springboks’ leading try-scorer. While his powers have waned, he remains a key member of the team. The nation hopes he discovers some throwback form as the Boks bid to win their third World Cup. – Ryan Vrede 

JEAN DE VILLIERS
Those with a trained eye know instinctively when a player is special. When De Villiers broke on to the scene as a fresh-faced kid, it was obvious his gifts transcended those of the bucks trying to make their way in the professional game at the time. He debuted for the Springboks before he played a Super Rugby match, with his technical and physical prowess seeing him shift between centre and wing in the infancy of his career with great success. He later settled in midfield, where he has built a reputation as one of the finest No 12s. He played an integral role in the Springboks’ 2004 and 2009 Tri-Nations triumphs and starred in the 2009 series defeat of the British & Irish Lions. Injury curtailed his involvement in the Springboks’ 2007 World Cup win and once again threatens his participation in the 2015 showpiece, which will surely be his last if he does recover in time. You need only listen to his teammates’ desperate pleas for the medical staff to get their captain up and running to know how high a premium they place on his involvement. – Ryan Vrede

JAQUE FOURIE
You’d struggle to build an argument for a better Springbok outside centre than Fourie. Some who followed his career closely still advance Danie Gerber’s case ahead of Fourie’s, but most objective pundits concede that ‘Mossie’ has a slight edge. Most of his junior days were spent at fullback but once he made the shift to No 13 his star began to rise quickly. Defensively it is the most challenging position on the field, but Fourie has never looked anything but assured, particularly when partnering Jean de Villiers – the pair sharing a near telepathic understanding. From an attacking perspective, Fourie’s size and deceptive speed, combined with excellent timing and spacial awareness sets him apart as one of the most potent strike runners in the game’s history. His 28 tries in 61 Tests as a midfielder is a Bok record that will take some beating. The Boks have struggled desperately to fill the void he has left since he announced his unavailability for selection. They would be well advised to get him to agree to one final fling in England in September. His presence is power. – Ryan Vrede

FRANS STEYN
Steyn was picked for the tour to Ireland and England in 2006 after a few Currie Cup games. Bok coach Jake White backed the 19-year-old utility back to start in all three matches, and Steyn backed himself to make an impact. The rugby world sat up and took notice when he landed a monster drop goal in the first Test against England at Twickenham. That siege gun boot would be responsible for some important victories over the next few years. Two second-half drop goals in the opening Test of the 2007 Tri-Nations against Australia. A long-range penalty to put the result of the 2007 World Cup final beyond doubt. A late conversion against the All Blacks in 2008 to end the Boks’ 10-year drought in New Zealand. A formidable line-kicking performance in the 2009 series win against the British & Irish Lions, and then again in the Boks’ drive to a Tri-Nations triumph. By the 2011 World Cup, Steyn’s legend as a kicker of power and influence had grown. While he hasn’t featured much for the Boks since then, there is still time for the now 27-year-old to add to that legacy. – Jon Cardinelli

JOEL STRANSKY
Stransky scored 240 points in 22 Tests, but it’s the 15 he got in the 1995 World Cup final against the All Blacks at Ellis Park, and the last three in particular, that defined his career. Two penalties and a drop goal from the flyhalf gave the Springboks a 9-6 lead at half-time, with Andrew Mehrtens’ second-half drop goal making it 9-9 at full time. Mehrtens put his side in front early in the first half of extra time with a 55m penalty, but Stransky made it 12-12 with his fourth penalty just before half-time. Then, two minutes into the second half of extra time, the Boks were awarded a scrum just outside their 22m and Joost van der Westhuizen sent the ball back to Stransky, who slotted the drop goal that wrote his name into rugby history. The 27-year-old also had a memorable first outing at that World Cup, in the 27-18 win against the Wallabies at Newlands, becoming the first Bok to score a try, conversion, penalty and drop goal in the same match. After playing his last Test for the Boks in August 1996, Stransky joined Leicester in 1997 and looked set to play for England, before it was discovered he did not qualify to do so. – Simon Borchardt

HENRY HONIBALL
Honiball was nearly lost to rugby in early 1992 when he moved back to his family’s Bergville farm after studying in Bloemfontein. But fortunately he was persuaded, against his father’s wishes, to pursue a rugby career that saw him win acclaim as perhaps South Africa’s finest post-isolation flyhalf. Honiball only played 35 Tests for South Africa but he was influential in most of those, with his strong tackling sending fear through opposing backlines, while his flat-lining style helped galvanise the Boks into an excellent attacking team during the Nick Mallett era when he was a pivotal part of the record-equalling 17-match unbeaten run in 1997-98. He wasn’t known for being talkative on the field, but he was an astute reader of the game, and Mallett tells the story of how Honiball scripted the move that enabled Pieter Rossouw to score the match-clinching try in the first post-isolation Bok victory on New Zealand soil, in 1998. He missed the 1995 World Cup because of injury and was prevented from playing an influential part in 1999 by a niggling injury that kept him sidelined for most of the tournament. Honiball is the only one of SA Rugby magazine’s top 20 Boks since 1995 to have never been on the cover. – Gavin Rich

JOOST VAN DER WESTHUIZEN
Van der Westhuizen’s induction into the International Rugby Hall of Fame in 2007 was confirmation that it wasn’t only South Africans who appreciated the play of the long-serving Springbok scrumhalf. Explosive around the fringes and a great cover tackler, he played a crucial role in the two big events that put the Springboks back on the rugby map on their return from isolation in the 1990s. The first was in the 1995 World Cup final, where Van der Westhuizen inspired his teammates with big early tackles on All Blacks wing Jonah Lomu, while in 1998 he played Wallabies flyhalf Stephen Larkham out of the game in what was effectively the Tri-Nations decider at Ellis Park. For a long time Van der Westhuizen held the Springbok try-scoring record, which was a testimony to his strength and acceleration around the fringes. Perhaps his most famous try was the one he scored against England in the 1999 World Cup quarter-final in Paris. Counting tour games, Van der Westhuizen scored 56 tries in 111 games for the Boks, and still holds the record for the most tries scored in Tests by a scrumhalf. – Gavin Rich

FOURIE DU PREEZ
Over the course of Du Preez’s career, coaches, teammates, and even opponents have marvelled at his ability to read and then influence a contest. Game plans have been built around his silky passing and tactical-kicking game. The results of major Tests have hinged on his decision-making and execution at key junctures. When Du Preez has played for the Boks, their attacking and tactical play have rarely been matched. This much was evident in the early rounds of the 2007 World Cup, most notably in the pool match against England. Du Preez stood out as one of the most influential players in the World Cup final, and again in the successful 2009 British & Irish Lions series. A few months later, his expert game management played no small part in South Africa winning the Tri-Nations. Others may have achieved more in terms of tries, points and accolades during the golden era between 2004 and 2009, but the Boks may not have scaled such heights without Du Preez pulling the strings from the No 9 position. – Jon Cardinelli 

FRANCOIS PIENAAR
Having led Transvaal to the inaugural Super 10 title in 1993, Pienaar was given the Springbok captaincy by coach Ian McIntosh after the retirement of Naas Botha, even though he had yet to play Test rugby. The flanker made his debut against France in June that year, and went on to captain the team in all 29 of his Tests appearances, the last of which came in August 1996. While Pienaar’s international career was controversially ended by Bok coach André Markgraaff, it will always be remembered for what happened in 1995 under the late Kitch Christie, when South Africa won the World Cup on home soil. Pienaar was an inspirational leader throughout the tournament and famously lifted the trophy next to a beaming Nelson Mandela, who was wearing one of the captain’s No 6 jerseys. While Pienaar’s leadership skills were his biggest asset, he was a physical player who put his body on the line and earned his place in the team. With his Test career over, Pienaar moved to Saracens, who he captained to their first trophy in 127 years (the 1997-98 English Cup) before hanging up his boots in 2000. – Simon Borchardt

JUAN SMITH
Smith was the unsung hero for the Boks during his seven-year tenure in the side. A valuable member of Jake White’s World Cup-winning squad, the flanker was at his peak during the tournament, scoring four tries as the Boks reclaimed the Webb Ellis Cup. Quiet and unassuming off the field, his demeanour contrasted with his physicality on it. Not dissimilar to another candidate for consideration, André Venter, Smith’s lineout pedigree edges him ahead of his fellow Free State flanker. A series of Achilles injuries looked to have cut his career short but, invigorated by a move to Toulon, Smith made a return to the Bok side during last year’s Rugby Championship. After missing the 2011 World Cup through injury, the 33-year-old will have earmarked this year’s tournament as a potential swansong for his Bok career, which has spanned 11 years and 70 Tests. – Brenton Chelin

SCHALK BURGER
Burger’s rugby story, in terms of what he’s achieved with the Boks and what he’s had to overcome, will inspire generations of South Africans to come. After the Boks’ success in the 2004 Tri-Nations, Burger was named the IRB Player of the Year. He fought his way back from a career-threatening neck injury in 2006 to play an important role in the Boks’ 2007 World Cup-winning campaign. His uncompromising physical approach has earned him respect from teammates and opponents alike, and there can be no argument regarding his status as one of the toughest players in the history of the sport. Just months after starring for the Boks at the 2011 World Cup, Burger was sidelined with a serious knee injury. A year later, he had surgery to drain a cyst on his back and picked up a hospital bug, which led to bacterial meningitis. A fight for fitness became a fight to stay alive. Against the odds, he returned to the playing field in late 2013. Fourteen months on, and Burger produced a Man of the Match performance as the Boks manhandled England at Twickenham. – Jon Cardinelli 

MARK ANDREWS
Andrews was selected for the Springbok team during a crisis week in South African rugby in 1994, but immediately made an impact as he helped Francois Pienaar’s men atone for a big defeat to England at Loftus with a compelling victory in Cape Town. A formidably built man with great ball skills and impressive mobility, Andrews was a key figure in many of South Africa’s finest triumphs between 1994 and the end of 2001, with his achievements including a World Cup winner’s medal in 1995 and a Tri-Nations winner’s medal in 1998. He would have been a challenger for any World XV selected during his era and was feared and respected by opponents. Born in the small southern Drakensberg town of Elliot in the Eastern Cape and schooled in East London, Andrews was equally adept as a lineout jumper as well as being physical and aggressive, often filling the role of Bok enforcer on the field of play. – Gavin Rich

VICTOR MATFIELD
There has been no greater lineout exponent in the game than Matfield. He turned it into a science, dedicating an enormous amount of preparation time to mastering that science. For most of his career he has ruled the air in Test rugby, tormenting jumpers and hookers, often reducing the latter into nervous messes who part with the ball knowing it will never likely reach its target. To fully understand Matfield’s value you have to appreciate that the modern game places a huge emphasis on attacking opportunities from set pieces, given how sophisticated defensive systems have become in general play. Matfield has regularly stifled the opposition in this regard, while significantly improving the Boks’ ability to secure their own feed, either by calling the throw on himself or engineering a catch for another jumper. Lest we forget, he was at the heart of the Springboks’ lineout dominance during the 2007 World Cup triumph, his efforts ensuring the Springboks never lost a lineout throughout the tournament. This is not to diminish his contributions in other areas. You don’t play in 121 Tests by being a one-trick pony. Matfield’s skill with ball in hand trumped the majority of his contemporaries, his excellent conditioning allowed him to sustain his efforts over 80 minutes, while his leadership qualities were and still are a boon for the Springboks. – Ryan Vrede

BAKKIES BOTHA
The second half of ‘the blood brothers’, Botha was the grunt to Victor Matfield’s guile. By the time Botha called time on his career, bloodied and grizzled after a game-shaping performance against England last year, the two had amassed 57 Test starts as a lock pairing – a world record. However, Botha’s contribution to the game as a whole stands on its own. He won everything there is to win in Test, provincial and club rugby. The pre-eminent enforcer of the professional era, the Boks benefited from Botha’s love for the physical stuff. Few were able to dominate the gainline and bully the contact area like he did. On his day he was unplayable. Botha will call time on his illustrious career later this year, but you wouldn’t rule out a return to his beloved Bulls for one last crack at the Currie Cup before heading off for a well-deserved rest. – Brenton Chelin

JOHN SMIT
Smit’s record of 83 Tests as Springbok captain will take some beating. While he may not have been the best player in his position throughout his career, his influence was unparallelled. At his peak, Smit – who made a record 10 SA Rugby magazine cover appearances – was an inspirational presence for the Boks. The mantle of captaincy sat easy on his broad shoulders – from his first Test as captain against Georgia at the 2003 World Cup, until the Boks’ disappointing exit from the 2011 World Cup. He won it all at international level – a World Cup, the Tri-Nations and a British & Irish Lions series. He anchored the Bok scrum in a record 46 consecutive Tests between 2003 and 2007, where he struck up a winning partnership with Jake White. His place in the annals of Bok history was confirmed that heady night in Paris, but Smit’s longevity in one of the toughest roles in South African rugby confirms him as a true great of the modern game. – Brenton Chelin

BISMARCK DU PLESSIS
A freak of nature, even by modern rugby standards. Du Plessis is a rare breed of hooker in that he boasts the physical dimensions of a traditional front ranker as well as the awareness, timing, and speed of an openside flanker. He was colossal for the Boks in their campaign against the British & Irish Lions in 2009, and in the Tri-Nations. If only coach Peter de Villiers had showed the same faith in Du Plessis’ game-shaping ability at the 2011 World Cup, the Boks may well have won the title (De Villiers opted to stick with John Smit, who was a spent force). After that disastrous campaign, new coach Heyneke Meyer moved to harness Du Plessis’ scrum and breakdown strengths. By 2013, the Boks were world leaders at the scrum, and had closed the gap between themselves and New Zealand at the breakdown. Despite wearing No 2, Du Plessis is as good as any openside in the world when it comes to winning important turnovers at the ruck. – Jon Cardinelli

OS DU RANDT
Du Randt’s career typified every character trait that defines the stature of the greatest names to have played the game. He is the only Springbok to have won two World Cups and he featured prominently in the 1999 third-place campaign. Du Randt retired from rugby in 2000 because of recurring knee problems, but, on his appointment in 2004, coach Jake White lured the loosehead prop back to rugby. White had a belief that Du Randt, if managed carefully, still had the game to be the best front-rower in South Africa and in the world. White would be vindicated with Du Randt’s response in helping the Springboks win a Tri-Nations title in 2004 and the World Cup in 2007. His World Cup performance in 2007 was colossal, with his display in the semi-final win against Argentina particularly memorable. His 2007 World Cup-winning colleagues and the coaching staff applauded his on-field performance, senior statesmanship and mentoring of the younger Bok generation among the most significant factors in the Boks’ success. White lauded Du Randt as one of the finest to ever put on a Bok jersey and the best of the best in the past 20 years of Springbok rugby. – Mark Keohane

THE SELECTION PANEL
JAKE WHITE: 2007 World Cup-winning Springbok coach and current coach of French club Montpellier
MARK KEOHANE: Award-winning veteran rugby writer, founder of keo.co.za and former Springbok communications manager
GAVIN RICH: Award-winning veteran rugby writer for SuperSport.com and the Weekend Argus, among other publications

Subscribe to SA Rugby magazine


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Apr 2015, 09:05
#2
23 Apr 2015, 09:05#2
 Nice historical review.  They are pretty near the mark - even though I would not have included Francois Steyn purely on the basis of Having a "giant boot".  
However, what is more important is the issue of which of the players are still in contention for possible selection to the Springbok team and those are the following:-
Bryan HabanaJean de VilliersFrancois SteynFourie du PreezSchalk BurgerVictor MatfieldBismarck du Plessis
Lets comments on the various players and see where we get.
Bryan Habana  
Still one of the best wings in world rugby - a player with ball sense.  He should be an automatic selection for the Springbok team.


Jean de Villiers
De Villiers showed a serious decline in performances in 2014 compared to his performance in 2013.   He then had a potential career-ending serious injury to his knee in the last test played last year and is still in the rehabilitating phase.   There is no indication yet when he will be returning to play rugby again.  Even if eh returns to playing rugby at the beginning of July 2015 he would have no matches since November last year and there would be questions about his match fitness.  A further problem is that there is a very small number of matches in the RC this year and consequently a very few matches that he can use to rebuild his match fitness to the required level.
In view of his age and the fact that he did show a serious decline in the 2014 tests compared to 3013 - there is indeed a serious question mark as to his future test career.
Francois Steyn
Francois Steyn is a player that has shown a really shocking decline in his performances if his early promise is taken into account.  He started his career at full back, was then playing at wing, thn at flyhalf and in the main at inside center.
The problem with Steyn was that he returned from France in 2012 being grossly overweight with a serious question mark as to his physical fitness  - his pace was gone.   The weight problem was even worse in 2013 and 2014 - but he went to Japan in July 2014 and returned a much slimmer player in March this year.  However, he still has a pace deficiency - probably due to his untreatable knee problem.   
The issue is is he still worth consideration for the Springbok team and if so - in which position.   He is potentially a possible full back - but he has a serious pace deficiency which could limit his functioning in that position.     His lack of pace obviously exclude him from being selected on the wing.   That leave two possible alternatives, namely center (12) and flyhalf.   Steyn;'s main problem in both those positions is his chronic inability to read games and the lack of attacking ability and seriously defective tackling record.
There is no way that in view of his present form he can be a candidate for Springbok selection.  There is not only the physical deficiencies that let to remarks by experts that eh si no flyhalf and no center - but there is also a egocentric problem in his case.  In his first game since his return from Japan - he got into continuous arguments with the referee and he played dangerously close to being sited for dangerous play - getting penalized 3 times and getting yellow-carded in the process.In his third game he made a dangerous tackle - got red-carded and ended up with a ban of 5 weeks.
It is a tragedy - but Steyn's game has deteriorated so much since his early Springbok years there is no way that he can be considered for future Springbok selection.      
Fourie du Preez
The serious question mark in his case is what I call "Japanese Club Syndrome".   There are serious question marks about the fitness levels of players playing in the "soft" Japanese Club environment.  Players coming back from that environment - and Du Preez is no exception - mostly  -
*   fail to perform adequately in their first few marches after their return from Japan since they are not physically up to the required standard and has lost pace as well;
*   fail to play well enough in matches in succeeding weeks - this being due to the fact that in japan they only play competitive matches every 14 days.  They do well in the game on the first Saturday and worse in the game the following Saturday; and
*   they are injury-prone as a result of deficient physical fitness.
Fourie du Preez has shown elements of all three deficiencies listed above and his future selection for the Springboks should not at all be automatic.
Schalk Burger
Burger has always been a top class player and still is.  A definite candidate for future selection.
Victor Matfield
During his prime years the Springboks had a particularly strong props, hooker and second lock and Matfield - a light weight in lock terms could thrive.  He definitely at the time was the top lineout jumper in world rugby and very good in loser form of play - while not a contributor to the hard grind of Tight 5 players.   
Over the last decade there was a general change in the physical attributes of locks in world rugby.  Locks of 105 kgs cannot be found anywhere in top rugby playing nations anymore - the weight of locks  vary from 116 kgs to 132 kgs.   As such Matfield's contribution to Tight 5 play has vanished since he is physically much weaker than his competitors.
His advantage as a lineout jumper has deteriorated markedly as well.  He came back in June last year as still able to compete in the air and being able to take a remarkable number of line-outs.  However, as the year went on his lineout takes got less and less and he began to call lineouts  to everybody - but himself.   He also showed a tendency to stand around behind mauls and make substantial numbers of low-quality tackles - the latter being at present his main claim to fame.
There is no way that Matfield at the age of 38 can make any positive contribution to Springbok play anymore and his selection to the Springbok squad will be a farce.  
Bismarck du Plessis

Bismarck was great in 2012 and 2013, but has not produced anything much in 2014 and was a disaster in 2015.   Bismarck can redeem himself - but at this stage the magic has gone from his performances and he can do a lot to overcome his present rather lackluster performances.  Still despite the obvious room for improvement, a serious candidate for Springbok selection.              
   
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
23 Apr 2015, 10:25
#3
23 Apr 2015, 10:25#3
 I'd go with that list
PO
polyboyClub Pro601 posts
23 Apr 2015, 12:20
#4
23 Apr 2015, 12:20#4

 Joubert, next to Christian Cullen was my favorite fullback.  Anyone who says SA don't produce running, world class skillful backs need to look no further than Joubert (and Danie Gerber) to disprove this.  Even though he was in the enemy's camp loved to watch him play.


Addendum:  Thank you Rooinek.  Did mean Gerber, he was another Bok player that was a favorite...He was one of those players that if you could take him from the past would slip seamlessly into any international side of today. He should be recommended viewing for any back..pace, power, skill.

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
23 Apr 2015, 12:27
#5
23 Apr 2015, 12:27#5
Polyboy, I assume you meant Danie Gerber rather than Danie Joubert?

Yes, Andre Joubert and Christian Cullen both rank among the greatest fullbacks of all time and they were both always a pleasure to watch.
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
23 Apr 2015, 14:27
#6
23 Apr 2015, 14:27#6
 Breyton Paulse, Gary Teichmann?
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
23 Apr 2015, 14:41
#7
23 Apr 2015, 14:41#7
Andre V enter is a glaring omission.

I'm surprised the Blowhards aren't whimpering about the exclusion of Bob Skinstad.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Apr 2015, 15:13
#8
23 Apr 2015, 15:13#8

It's interesting that they selected 3 locks, 3 loosies, two hookers and only one prop. No tightheads, the only position that is not represented. That speaks to where we have struggled most over this time period.

 

 

The player who has been a Bok incumbent longest, and not made the team is the Beast. I'd say he was easily worth selecting, if for nothing else but his destruction of the Lions in 09.

OM
Owen MeanyRookie57 posts
23 Apr 2015, 16:29
#9
23 Apr 2015, 16:29#9
 Juan Smith, Andre Venter, Jaque Fourie, Danie Rossouw.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
23 Apr 2015, 17:34
#10
23 Apr 2015, 17:34#10

Danie Rossouw.....no chance in hell.....good player but not great


Bob Skinstad was the most talented of the lot in terms of forwards......but never had a long career  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Apr 2015, 18:16
#11
23 Apr 2015, 18:16#11
Bobby before his knee injury was spectacular. The try he scored from a scrum on the halfway against I reland, gassing the Irish backs remains the best try I have ever seen a forward score.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Apr 2015, 21:00
#12
23 Apr 2015, 21:00#12
 There are in fact an indication amongst the above that the issue of intelligent players over non-thinking ones can be identified as the dividing line between good players and outstanding players.  
During their careers there were only two players mentioned article quoted above - who would not rate as intelligent players - and they are Bakkies Botha and Francois Steyn.   Bakkies physicality was a good support for Matfield - and there is no doubt that he was able to undertake an exceptionally hard work rate in the Tight 5 environment.     
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Apr 2015, 21:18
#13
23 Apr 2015, 21:18#13
So Bakkies is dim, and Matfield is feeble. You have to wonder how these two were picked as the best pairing in the world for much of their careers. Some kind of miracle!  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Apr 2015, 21:54
#14
23 Apr 2015, 21:54#14
 Mozart
Bakkies is definitely not the cleverest player around - but he is the most physical of the players mentioned.  That made him a very good foil for Matfield who never was really up to standard from a physical perspective.  You seem to think that all that counts in players are physical - the outstanding players in fact are intelligent players with skills.
I said above that at the time Matfield was acceptable since the size of most locks at the time was not as imposing as they are today - so Matfield could compete at that stage.  At this stage he is not physically powerful enough to compete successfully, but the present players are physically stronger and that makes Matfield unable to compete successfully at present.
If only you understand what is being written - the idiotic comments you normally post would be less laughable.    
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Apr 2015, 22:16
#15
23 Apr 2015, 22:16#15
You said Matfield was acceptable when everybody thought he was the best in the world....hahahaha.....thanks for that big admission dork. Bakkies was plenty shrewd and Matfield was plenty physical....and you are plenty thick.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Apr 2015, 22:40
#16
23 Apr 2015, 22:40#16
 Ag foieitog - die dofste persoon verstaan niks nie.   Matfield was  on the list above and that is why I said he was acceptable to be on the list.  I did not refer to him in any other context.   However, Matfield was never "plenty physical" and if you read the book of Jake White you will understand that Bakkies was not the most intelligent player around.  He was basically a exceptionally good physical player, which in the Tight 5 is good. 
Your dim remarks are too stupid to deserve any further comments - doffies.        
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Apr 2015, 22:58
#17
23 Apr 2015, 22:58#17
Well we will just leave it that the concensus best lock pairing from 2005 to 2011 was dim and lacking in physicality according to you Moronic. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Apr 2015, 05:37
#18
24 Apr 2015, 05:37#18
 I said they are acceptable on that list of 20 players for various reasons and stated it clearly.  I did not state untrue facts about them.   I did not say they were at the time mot good.
What you said is absolutely misleading and crudely inaccurate.   
Lets put it that your main objective is to mislead people on issues clear as daylight.  Because I said Matfield was competitive during his hayday - but is at present not competitive anymore for stated reasons must have galled you - an embittered person who wants everyone to kowtow to you.
The most admirable thing Botha did over the past year wa to admit that he cannot compete anymore with the younger players - the most childish thing Matfield did was not to admit the same.  The most stupid thing you did is to agree with Matfield ego-centric childishness.
By the way the only player I said does not belong on that list of 20 players was Francois Steyn and the reason I gave was that his performances over a long period while he supposedly was at his prime performance years as a rugby player (ie from 2012 to date) was sub-par and seriously defective.    How he came on that list was a few long distance conversions of kicks - hardly a realistic basis for evaluation of a great player.  
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
24 Apr 2015, 08:03
#19
24 Apr 2015, 08:03#19
Owen, Jaque Fourie is on the list.

Juan Smith probably would have made it if he had sustained his form for longer but he got those injuries and never really fulfilled his potential.

Danie Rossouw was a bit of a plodder. I would have picked the very underrated Krynauw Otto ahead of Danie Rossouw.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
24 Apr 2015, 09:38
#20
24 Apr 2015, 09:38#20
 3 and 8 is missing. Obviously no clear candidates. I was a big Cobus Vissagie fan at 3, but due to him playing overseas, he did not actually play for the boks much. Teichmann must be main contender @ 8??? 
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
24 Apr 2015, 09:55
#21
24 Apr 2015, 09:55#21
 I wouldn't say that Krynauw Otto was underrated. What is true though, is that his career was cut short, probably no thanks to Nick Mallett. 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
24 Apr 2015, 10:34
#22
24 Apr 2015, 10:34#22

Bakkies is anything but dim......his quick wit and thirst for culture is well renowned.....stop speaking crap Mike........just because Bakkies is a hard man, it does not mean he is dumb.


Danie Rossouw was not good enough to make the Bok starting side in his day...to make the top 20 Boks is a joke.


He is a handy enough player but not special at all. There must be 50 players more worthy than him on that list.



SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
24 Apr 2015, 10:37
#23
24 Apr 2015, 10:37#23

Agreed Moz, Bob was awesome......he had the skills of a centre.......at his best, the best 8 I have ever seen.


Would love to have seen him in todays game......he no doubt would have built his 105kg frame into a healthy 110kg plus, adding the necessary physical edge to his game along with those sublime skills he had........not only naturally talented, he also had a great rugby brain.  

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
24 Apr 2015, 11:09
#24
24 Apr 2015, 11:09#24
I am by now means saying that Danie Rossouw should have been on the "list of 20......whatever", but anybody who cannot recognise him as a special player should consider talking about cup cake recipes or something.  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
24 Apr 2015, 11:14
#25
24 Apr 2015, 11:14#25

Danie Rossouw a special player.......bwhaaaahaaaaa........that in a nutshell sums your rugby ignorance up Vlagshit


Thanks for that post........it was a blessing.......have a good weekend.......bwhaaaahaaa


Danie a special player!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
24 Apr 2015, 11:34
#26
24 Apr 2015, 11:34#26
 Suit yourself, p@epol. Found any cupcake recipies yet. How about taking up cross stitch or carpet bowls if the cupcake recipies are too complicated for you?
OM
Owen MeanyRookie57 posts
24 Apr 2015, 11:47
#27
24 Apr 2015, 11:47#27
 Rossouw het in n era gespeel saam met die beste slot kombinasie ooit. Hy was egter altyd daar indien een van hulle nie beskikbaar was nie. Oo k n uitstekende flank en agsteman. Rugby gaan nie meer net oor die 15 spelers wat opdraf nie. 
https://www.genslin.us/bokke/SARugby.html
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
24 Apr 2015, 11:58
#28
24 Apr 2015, 11:58#28
No-one is saying Danie Rossouw wasn't a decent enough player but to even consider him as one of the top 20 Springboks of the last two decades is laughable. As Saffex pointed out, he struggled to become a regular in the team when he was playing so to make him out to be some kind of Springbok legend is a bit of a stretch.

He was also the very opposite of a "special" player. Rossouw did the basics well but he had no blistering speed, strength or fancy skills. He was a grafter with a reasonable workrate who made his tackles and did his job but there was nothing special about him or his skill set . . . unless you think being able to double up as a lock or a blindside flanker is a very "special" skill these days . . . in which case I can list dozens of "special" players.

No-one's calling him a bad player but I doubt he'd make my top 50 Springboks of the last 20 years let alone the top 20.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
24 Apr 2015, 12:23
#29
24 Apr 2015, 12:23#29
 Here we go again. I have never said that he belongs in that top 20 list. Problem is that there are a few people who do not quite understand the concept of a 23 man team as opposed to a 15 man team and a few reserves. There are not many players who could cover at lock, flanker and no 8 and was also good enough to start in any of those positions. Like Owen has said, he was unfortunate to be playing in the same era as Bakkies. Having said that, he and Bakkies was always (right up to Danie's retirement) a deadly combination in their teams when Danie replaced Bakkies. How many forwards have been able to replicate Danie? I cannot think of many. 
BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
24 Apr 2015, 12:55
#30
24 Apr 2015, 12:55#30

 Top of the list of 20 must be Joost, Joubert and Os. The bottom of the list is IMHO Frans Steyn, Mark Andrews and John Smit.


Chester Williams, Stransky and Francois Pienaar should not have been on that list.

Stransky's claim to fame is that drop goal to give the Boks the '95 WC, but other than that he was a very ordinary 10.

Francois Pienaar was an outstanding leader off the field, but nothing more than average as a player. That is why I believe Tiaan Strauss emigrated to Australia.


I agree with Owen that Andre Venter should have been on the list.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
24 Apr 2015, 12:56
#31
24 Apr 2015, 12:56#31
No you dumbshit you said he was special and that is all we needed to hear......he was not even close to special......thick as pig pooh.......Danie special........bwhaahaaaaaa....you are a joke........give rugby up you clown  
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
24 Apr 2015, 13:17
#32
24 Apr 2015, 13:17#32
 Agreed Blikkies. On Stransky. Good enough 10, but he did not really play enough for the Boks to make the top 20 without the 95 final.
OM
Owen MeanyRookie57 posts
24 Apr 2015, 13:21
#33
24 Apr 2015, 13:21#33
 Rossouw, 35 (he will be 36 on Thursday), will ride off into the sunset on his own terms after 62 Tests, which included 10 tries, for the Boks. He will also be in possession of one of the most illustrious CVs in the history of the game.

His monumental trophy haul began with the modest Vodacom Cup in 2001, when he was an early member of the Bulls team that would go on to dominate provincial rugby for the next decade.

Three Currie Cups (one shared win) and three Super Rugby titles followed. He was picked for the Boks in 2001 but never made it onto the field due to injury.

He was selected again in 2003 as part of Rudolf Straeuli’s team to the World Cup and by 2007 he was a key figure in Jake White’s squad that went on to win the Webb Ellis trophy.

He would win the Tri-Nations, a World Cup, and a British & Irish Lions series before his overseas stint started with a domestic league and cup double at his Japanese club, Suntory. Toulon brought more success for Rossouw — the European Cup in 2013 and 2014 and now the Top 14 title.

Rossouw’s value was that he could play No 8, blindside flank and both locks. In the 2007 World Cup final he started at No 8 and made a try-saving tackle on England wing Mark Cueto that arguably changed the momentum of the match.

Had England scored a try, the outcome of the match and the tournament could have been different. Rossouw has never taken credit for it, but White praised him at the time.

"Danie spent a lot of his junior rugby as a flyhalf, so he instinctively understood good running lines," former Bulls assistant coach John McFarland said. McFarland worked with Rossouw at the Bulls for 10 years.

"He always ran fantastic lines off nine and 10 and he had great timing, which allowed him to cut the line and had tremendous skill for a big guy, which coupled with his versatility made him special.

"He was easy to work with and absorbed everything. He played his best rugby in his latter years, because he didn’t have a lot of miles on the clock due to being an impact player earlier."

In the 2007 World Cup final he made a try-saving tackle on England’s Mark Cueto to change the match momentum

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
24 Apr 2015, 13:43
#34
24 Apr 2015, 13:43#34
 Ou Dawie. Name us all the forwards who was good enough to start in either the no 4, 7 or eight jersey and was able to switch to 5 as well when push came to shove. Over to you sopdr@l. 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
24 Apr 2015, 14:05
#35
24 Apr 2015, 14:05#35

Vlagshit being able to play a few positions does not make you a special player you profoundly stupid person........he was at best solid enough at lock and 7.......was never athletic or skilful enough for an 8.


You miss the point you idiot........he was a handy enough player, he was never special......not even close.


I could name 100 better players right now that were better than Danie.


Don't get me wrong I rated him as a 7, nowhere else.


But to name a few for your entertainment that could play all those positions now.......Elstadt, Rhodes, PSDT, Etienne Oosthuizen,  JL du Preez and Jacques du Plessis

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
24 Apr 2015, 14:32
#36
24 Apr 2015, 14:32#36
I respect your opinion. Even if it is as crap as they come. Doesn't mean that I agree with it. Neither does it necessarily mean that you are correct either. 
In any case, how many of those on your little list have ever started a test in any all of those positions. None of the players on your list have come close to equalling Danie's achievements yet, so naming them means sh!t and whether any of them would get anywhere near that, ever, remains to be seen. 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
24 Apr 2015, 16:13
#37
24 Apr 2015, 16:13#37

Some on my list are better players than Danie like PSDT and Jacques du Plessis regardless of whether they have started tests in certain positions or not. Given their ages their careers are at an infancy.


Others like Elstadt and Rhodes are just as good as Danie was.

OM
Owen MeanyRookie57 posts
24 Apr 2015, 16:36
#38
24 Apr 2015, 16:36#38
 PSDT het nog net een goeie wedstryd gespeel en dit was in die Curriebeker. Hy is meestal beseer en het nog baie om te bewys. 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
24 Apr 2015, 16:59
#39
24 Apr 2015, 16:59#39

Kak he was bloody good for the Sharks before his injury this year in the S15


Awesome talent  

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
24 Apr 2015, 17:18
#40
24 Apr 2015, 17:18#40
 Nobody has denied how good PSDT is. Does that put him on par with or better, or more special than Danie Rossouw or any other great Bok? Nobody can say for sure. 
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