What is happening in the UK

Denny
 
Status: Senior player 
Posts: 2654RE: What is happening in the UK
September 09, 2015, 11:40:03

 Cloudy and Moz...did you guys see American Sniper? Brought a lump to my throat.

And he brought a hole in most other throats  

 Yep, based on a true story. What irony to be killed on home soil after serving and surviving three missions in Iraq.

The horror of being forced to shoot a child to save your fellow soldiers
B ecause of the actions of the parents 

 fanatical parents...

Agreed Denny , but parents nontheless

 Most of the irregular immigrants coming to Europe are refugees (mainly from Syria) and these are indeed refugees fleeing for their lives. So this is an ethical dilemma. Does Europe turn their back on them and let them die, be exploited by human trafficers? And it is even not as simple as that as most do not get detected at the borders and therefore enter Europe illegally anyway. Sure we have "returns" where illegal immigrants are flown back to their homes. But they first have to be processed by the asylum system. This takes time and costs a lot. Most of these irregular immigrants are middle class in their countries, not the scum of the earth. Most have at least some education and want to find a place for their families. Most wanted to stay in their countries but they cannot stay because their families are not safe.
So this is an ethical dilemma, do we treat these people as the Jews were treated. In any case it is not even that simple as there are no easy answers. You can't stop them (fences don't work, you can't kill them - it is against our values). 
It is easy to be extreme and come with bold statements about the extent of the problem or the impact of the problem or come with some impractical or inhuman solution but these "solutions" are more emotion that solutions.

If I was one of them, I would do absolutely anything humanly possible to get my family to safety, rather than see my wife and daughter sold to a sex slave market and see my son beheaded, as I know all here would do the same without hesitation..... it's almost unimaginable.
That being said, I really do believe this is a deliberate and orchestrated plan to get the underground ISIS members in place in all the relevant countries around the world under the guise as refugees / migrants, and the unfortunate part is there is no time to be vetted for these concerns because of the sheer numbers.
It's a bold, but bloody genius and effective plan.  Even if a a few thousand get caught, out of the millions crossing over, there will still be many thousands of ISIS recruits safely settled into their new enemy territory waiting for orders.
This is a classic example of you are damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

 No, most of them are not from Syria. They are now saying they are all from Syria as the ridiculous woman that is Frau Merkel announced ALL Syrians are refugees and will all be allowed to stay in Germany. Now every economic migrant from Africa, Asia and those needing refuge are heading here. Hundreds of thousands of them. And they do not want to gain refuge at the first safe port of call, as a refugee would, they all DEMAND to come to England. Once this had caused an, understandable furore, they then said they wished to go to Germany, knowing full well that this will allow them passage to England once they are registered. 
They are not remotely all Middle Class and educated. Many are very poor and only of very menial job skills ( we are flooded with people of that ilk already ) Many say they were Law Students or Dr's, this is what they have all been coached to say by the traffickers. There are also tens, nay hundreds, of thousands of, mainly, young men who all claim they are school age. They are in their twenties if they are a day. 
Our social services/care for the elderly is already cut to the bone. To have over 300 kids a month arriving needing care places in one region alone is not acceptable and is, rightly, making people very angry indeed. 
We do not have the land space of European countries ( most are roughly four times the size of us and have less population per square mile already. They also gave far less illegal immigration which no Govt has got a grip on since the idiot Blair opened our borders and started this sorry mess in the first place ) Our infrastructure also cannot cope. I don't just mean Schools/Hospitals/roads etc. I mean the National Grid/sewage/water supply etc. 

And yes, we are on high alert for terrorism yet we do something as brain dead and idiotic as this. One just has to ask oneself where the brain cells of the people in power actually are. 
But all they seem bothered about is killing badgers !! At £7000 per head and not the cause of TB in the first place, it's money well spent !!

 All the bleeding hearts around the world will continue supporting these folks no matter what the cost to their own countries.
Also I watched the movie "American Sniper" as well and do not recall the sniper shooting a child.
Yes war is ugly.
At this stage of the game I fear that there is not enough courage forthcoming from western leaders to deal and admit their mistakes or to stand firm.
Called POLITICS irrespective of the end result.

 so your solution is war? War is the result of failed politics.
Incidentally, merkel and other politicians have admitted their mistakes and are trying to find solve the immigration / asylum problem, so has the European Commission. 
One impediment to solutions is labels such as bleeding hearts, fascists, etc. we are all on a political spectrum and very few are on the extreme. Trying to win a debate with a label is not a good idea.

 No, they have not admitted their mistakes at all. Junker has told everyone they HAVE to accept a specified amount, tens of thousands, of refugees or else. 
Do you actually have any idea what is going on, JW ? At Calais ? With Eurostar ? With people's jobs and businesses ? With people being attacked in their cars and buses ? No ? Didn't think so. 
This is not a new issue, this has been going on for years and many of these migrants have been flooding in to the UK for years, we are swimming in illegal immigration and our Police forces are struggling with the crime....and what nasty crimes we are now seeing double and triple in some cases. 
As for Syria, we have been letting refugees in since this issue began, unlike other countries. And now we have given over £100 million this year. Money we cannot afford. 

Becs:  I have my new born grandson on my shoulder so will find articles later but I remember Merkel sayin g that the asylum system failed , internally the EC has acknowledged current system needs to be revised.

 The UK is being overrun. Continue like this and the inevitable outcome is being under Sharia law if you are not blown to bits before that happens.

JW,
Trust you are going to let your grandson learn an Arabic and become a Muslim as he will require that to survive in the future if we do not stop this madness now.
Question. How come these folks do not seek refuge in another country who shares their religion and way of life?

Also the EU and the bleeding hearts do not have to revise the current system ....they have to reverse the system and send the so called "poor Arab's" home or to Pakistan.
I have grandchildren and I have major concerns for their future and safety in the world.
I for one will never surrender my faith and freedom to accomodate these guys who have been at war with one another for thousands of years.
Hope you are on board.
Stand united.

 becs
When I was last in Europe -
*   I was told by local people to avoid going to certain areas in London because it was too dangerous;
*   was nearly robbed at the Eiffel Tower in Paris when a thief tried to cut the shoulder bag strip I was carrying;
*   was told on the metro subway in Paris I must rather travel by taxi since my baggage will be stolen; and
*   that the Gare D'Nord area is gang area and is too dangerous to stay in.
This was told to me by local people and one must assume that they knew what is going on.   
This after a robber tried to rob our Major - a Black gentlemen - in the station in Amsterdam.  All the above involved illegal immigrants - not local people.
There seems to be sound reasons to distrust the present situation in cities and major areas in Europe.  
  

There are seriously minded folk wondering weather WW 3 is brewing. 
Russian has military advisors in Syria training them to use the weapons they have sold to ther Syrians. 
Realisation is dawning only boots on the ground can sort this out. B ut what if Russia and China get involved.

" War is the result of failed politics." What utter rubbish.

 There are areas here that practise Sharia Law and it gas gone unpunished, that is unacceptable. Female Genital Mutilation cases are commonplace, which is horrific; girls being taken to marry elderly male relatives etc as schoolgirls, that is also unacceptable. Halal slaughter, like that of Kosher slaughter, is unacceptable and needs banning forthwith, as do all Religious festivals which involve ritual sacrifice. Certain areas are more or less no go areas for people and the Police have given up. 
Rapes, sexual assaults and murders have increased drastically. The paedophile rings in Bradford etc have all involved those of Pakistani etc origin and none were properly looked into for years for  fear of " racism " As you can tell, no-one has been able to do or say anything for years now because of the " Racism card " and that is very dangerous indeed. There are so many issues I could list, it is horrendous really. 

As for Syria, yes, there is a huge level of blame at both America and our doorsteps. We destabilised an already unstable region with Iraq, twice, and Afghanistan...the almighty failure. The pathetically termed " Arab Spring " was manipulated simply so certain rulers could be overthrown and Libya...well...let's not go there, shall we ? Isis have been born out of the opposition to Assad that we, that is America and Britain, created and trained. We sent them in to do our dirty work, a little bit like the mujahideen in Afghanistan. The only people surprised that they have become this horrendous monster are those who created them. 

The issue with cutting the straps of bags is a favoured Eastern European trick, Mike. France has many issues, I am afraid. Worrying times for us all. 

Arthur John
 
Status: Bok regular 
Posts: 873RE: What is happening in the UK
September 09, 2015, 16:50:53

Also I watched the movie "American Sniper" as well and do not recall the sniper shooting a child.

In the movie, and the book, it's the first human he ever shoots
The mother sends the kid out of the house with a grenade.
It's the very first opening scene in the movie when he is on the roof.  

Sorry to hear that Cloudy
My concern is that a lot of British town are already being taken over slowly but surely, with Sharia law already very prominent on the streets in a lot of them
English is not even the first language in some schools anymore, which defies belief
There are 240 schools currently in the UK where 90% of the pupils do not speak English as a first language..... in England. 
5 primary schools have no first language english speakers.... at all..... not one.
Not what I want to see, but it will only get worse

 Cloudy 
Sorry to hear about your niece's friend.  I do not know - but there are animals that is not as bad as some humans are about fellow-humans.   Hope that animal - who committed the crime spends  the rest of his life in jail. No conso lation -but at least  one madman less prowling the streets.
I am also sorry for the children trying to walk from Greece to Hungary. Somebody needs to take care of them.   They are the lucky ones - just think of the millions still displaced in Surya.  
Problem is part of Europe - especially Hungary and the Eastern and Central European nations - suffered for centuries from Turkish occupation and oppression - so historically they would never accept the Muslim refugees in their countries.       

 Cloudy...that is horrendous news and my sympathies go out to you and your niece. Domestic violence is a scourge that is all too often swept under the carpet  
The children are the innocents in all this, yes. But some have been in countries of safety for three or even more years. Yet they are still putting them in those stupid dinghys and risking their lives just so they can get to, primarily, the UK. It is not acceptable. The parents are not fleeing terror if they have lived in safety for years, yet they still do that ? What does that make them ? 
Yes, we are overrun here and places like Luton in Bedfordshire are simply places you do not wish to set foot in even if you have to. It cannot be allowed to continue. 
I have three teachers in the family. One is constantly amazed at how the children in her school ( she has so many nationalities in her class alone, all without English, all having to be fed by her pre-school...out of her pocket as they are not being cared for at home even though the parents have phones and cigarettes etc etc ....) having claimed Asylum, are taken home for multiple holidays every year ! To the countries they have fled from !! It does not make a jot of sense. Also, you can only legally take your children out of school for a certain amount of days per year without incurring fines. These people do not get fined.......They are also allowed to have many days off for Religious holidays. The whole system has become completely ridiculous. 
There are already enough racists in the world, we do not need people becoming, rightly, angered by situations and joining their throngs, simply through because our politicians are completely useless. 

becs
 
Status: Bok regular 
Posts: 1895RE: What is happening in the UK
September 10, 2015, 13:01:29

Yet they are still putting them in those stupid dinghys and risking their lives just so they can get to, primarily, the UK. It is not acceptable. The parents are not fleeing terror if they have lived in safety for years, yet they still do that ? What does that make them ?

 This is not always the case Becs, so you cannot generalize with this statement
Some, have extremely valid reasons to risk putting their kids in those stupid dinghys.
Most sane fathers or mothers would do the exact same thing, hell I know I would if I had a teenage daughter who faced getting sold off and gang raped by 9 different men, nevermind what they would do to a young boy or mother
For a lot of them, there is just simply no other option