FIXTURESNo upcoming fixtures — check back soon.
FORUM / RUGBY /  What is Meyer smoking!!

What is Meyer smoking!!

Started by Beeno161 REPLIES1,343 VIEWS· 10 Sept 2015, 08:37
SHAREXFACEBOOKWHATSAPPTELEGRAMREDDITLINKEDIN
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
10 Sept 2015, 08:37
#1
10 Sept 2015, 08:37#1
If this article by Keo is correct ou Meyer is banking very heavily on pap matfiled and Fourie Du Preez. We are not sure just how well Fourie will go but we sure do know wee matfiled has been a disaster for both the bulle (as Palyer and coach) and for the Boks. What fantasy world is he living in! If you want areally good laugh read this!!

To be successful at the World Cup, the Springboks must trust players whose pedigree endorses risk for reward, writes MARK KEOHANE in Business Day.

The critique of Heyneke Meyer’s World Cup contenders is that everything centres around players whose recent international game time betrays their international quality as being among the world’s best at some stage of their career.

Victor Matfield, at 38 years old, remains (BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA) the master of kick-off receives, of managing the lineout and of putting pressure on the opposition lineout. Matfield, named Man of the Match after the 2007 World Cup final (For moonlighting out in the backline!!), retired after a less successful 2011 World Cup quarter-final defeat.

Meyer, who coached Matfield at the Bulls for a decade, enticed Matfield to put right the wrongs of the 2011 defeat against Australia in Wellington.

Matfield will lead the Boks’ in the World Cup opener because squad captain Jean de Villiers is unlikely to play in the first two pool matches. It could be that De Villiers only returns for the last outing before the play-offs.

Matfield, in fitness and conditioning, was second only to 21-year-old Bulls utility back Jesse Kriel.(BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA IS THE NO LIMITS TO HOW FAR MATILED'S GROUPIES WILL GO!!hILARIOUS STUFF!)

Meyer, in defending Matfield’s guaranteed selection, was insistent that Matfield’s rugby brain had no equal among South African forwards (AS WAS SHOWN IN HIS LEADERSHIP OF THE BULLE OR HIS ASTUTENESS IN THE ATTACK COACH ROLE!). Meyer said he trusted Matfield as a player and leader, believed him still to be the best No 5 international lock and a player whose X factor would be defining at the World Cup. (BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA SIDE SPLITTING STUFF - CAN THIS BE BE REAL!)

Matfield, in his 2014 comeback year, did enough to vindicate his selection(HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH) but the 2015 World Cup year has not been as kind to the veteran, whose 38-year-old body understandably has been vulnerable to injury.

It has not deterred Meyer’s enthusiasm. Neither has it blunted the coach’s view that Matfield, even at 38, is the first name penciled into his World Cup lineout.

But Matfield, for all his career genius as the best No 5 lineout specialist of the professional era, has in 2015 not been the colossal 2007 World Cup presence.(YEP HIS IMMENSE PRESENCE SENDS SHIVERS DOWN OPPONENTS SPINE - BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHA) He has missed Tests through injury and others, among the opposition and within the squad, have stood taller in their all-round contribution. (sOME SANITY AT BLAST - BUT HE SHOULD HAVE SAID VASTLY SUPERIOR -JUST WHEN DR MOZZ WAS GETTING ALL SMUG!)

Experience is vital at any World Cup, and within the Bok squad context, Matfield is the most capped Springbok in history. But he is not the Matfield of 2007 and it would be outrageous to expect him to match the peak of his international career.

Meyer is convinced Matfield, like Fourie du Preez, will inspire the Boks’ to the title. But Du Preez hasn’t played a Test in 2015 becaue of injury and has played irregularly for the Boks in the last two years since being lured out of international retirement.

Matfield and Du Preez are two of our game’s greatest and among the elite to have played in the professional era. But they’re being backed on historical form and the heroics of the World Cup-winning 2007 campaign(FfOURIE WAS A GREAT PLAYER BUT MATFILED NEVER REACHED VODACOM CUP LEVEL)

Du Preez, interviewed after the naming of the World Cup 31, admitted he was not Test match fit but felt he could play himself into fitness during the tournament.

Ditto De Villiers and Duane Vermeulen, whose first showing at the World Cup could be as late as the quarter-final.

Then there’s Willem Alberts and Pieter-Steph du Toit, who between them have played 40 minutes of Test rugby in 2015.

Meyer’s has risked in his selections. It’s not the quality of the player that is questioned but the medical history in 2015.

No other coach, among the tournaments top six contenders, has trusted the medical recovery of a group of injured senior players.

Coaches have admitted to risking with, at best, two players in 31, who won’t feature in the opening round because of injury.

Meyer takes seven players, each with huge standing in the international game, to the World Cup with the belief all seven will play in the quarter-finals and be influential in guiding the Boks to victory in the final.

It’s loyalty at its most extreme and Meyer’s legacy will be determined by the battered warriors he gave a free World Cup pass. He either be remembered for making the bravest call or his tenure will be defined by an act of lunacy in picking so many crocked players.

Meyer has spoken of passion, of desire and of patriotism. He says the players will die for the cause.

I’d have been more inspired and more of a believer if he has said he had players who wanted to live for a triumph. After all, it is a sport. No one should be thinking a life is worth saving a try.

I’d also have preferred if the Boks’ pre-tournament focus was on the X-factor talents Handré Pollard and Kriel; two youngsters who in one Test against the All Blacks did more than some do in a decade.

There has to be hope for the Springboks with players like Pollard and Kriel among the most talented and fearless of the next generation of potential Test match greats. But there simply cannot be any conviction of a Bok success, based on South African sporting pride and the simplicity that passion will pound those whose successes in 2015 have modeled on skill, passion and settled combinations.

Patriotism alone won’t win it for the Springboks. And for all the passion among the supporters, the Boks in 2015 don’t have the results or the all-round player pedigree to match those who refuse to believe the Boks can lose World Cups.

Folks, the Boks do lose World Cups. In fact, they have lost more than they have won.

INJURIES, BAD SELECTIONS AND QUOTAS HAVE BEDEVILLED PUTTING TOGETHER A SQUAD OF OUR BEST PLAYERS.

TO ME THE PRESENCE OF MATFILED IS THE SINGLE BIGGEST DISASTER TO HAVE HAPPENED. I F WE WIN THE WOLRD CUP IT WILL BE DISPITE HIS PRESENCE. 


SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Sept 2015, 08:42
#2
10 Sept 2015, 08:42#2
 Meyer is a fucking clueless idiot 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Sept 2015, 08:55
#3
10 Sept 2015, 08:55#3
 Dave
What is happening to the Bulls is exactly the result of the departure of Meyer and Ludeke from the coaching scene there.  They are dolts when it comes to playing rugby.  The same will happen to the Springboks when Meyer is out of the coaching job  - no more "stampkar" rugby.

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
10 Sept 2015, 09:00
#4
10 Sept 2015, 09:00#4
I am not overly concerned at all
Time will tell if this was the correct move
TT
The_TruthClub Pro471 posts
10 Sept 2015, 10:02
#5
10 Sept 2015, 10:02#5
" Matfield, in fitness and conditioning, was second only to 21-year-old Bulls utility back Jesse Kriel.(BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA IS THE NO LIMITS TO HOW FAR MATILED'S GROUPIES WILL GO!!hILARIOUS STUFF!)"

There is no limit to how far haters will go. The conditioning data was recorded using scientific methods and are the actual recorded figures for the players. There is no interpretation or opinions required. You aren't a groupie, if you say that (for example)  a vo2max of 65 is greater than 60. It merely means that you have the most basic understanding of reading and math. But you definitely are a hater when you believe that a vo2max of 60 is greater than 65.

Or of course, it merely means you have an IQ so low that you are not able to count up to 65.

So Beeno1, please clarify... Are you a hater, or do you merely have such a low IQ?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Sept 2015, 11:03
#6
10 Sept 2015, 11:03#6
 The Trooth Fairy 
Nobody hates any players - they just look and see the non-performers in teams - and Matfield is an under-performer as a lock and that is a fact.
The3 stories coming out in the press are moral boosters - not necessarily correct.  They know there is a lot of  criticism about Matfield's selection hence I do not really believe he is that fit.  However, you may not know -= there is a lot of difference between physical fitness and match-fitness and the latter is where Matfield is a flop.  
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
10 Sept 2015, 11:18
#7
10 Sept 2015, 11:18#7
Mike 
I wonder if your Matfield bashing will ever stop
Despite any positive press about Matfield, you will always turn it into a negative
It's getting tedious now, really it is
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
10 Sept 2015, 11:29
#8
10 Sept 2015, 11:29#8
 "........and Matfield is an under-performer as a lock and that is a fact."
Lesson in facts and opinions:
1. 
2. 
Exercise:


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Sept 2015, 12:29
#9
10 Sept 2015, 12:29#9
Ceradunce
What has this to do with the topic under discussion?   What you believe is opinion is factual - what you constantly say is opinion is in fact factual.  So do you really know the difference.
But then let me give you the factual situation as to Matfield:-
*   At 38 years of age he is way past his sell by date*   Since his return to test rugby the Tight 5 of the Springboks is a shambles and a reason for the high number of test losses*   He is not a carrier of balls in traffic - he is physically too weak for that*   He is not involved in breakdown ball protection and recovery - stands around in the backline when that should be done*   He makes a relatively high number of weak/ineffective tackles in games 
Those are not opinions expressed by me -they represent facts stated by other international locks who have been Springboks themselves.  
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
10 Sept 2015, 12:36
#10
10 Sept 2015, 12:36#10
Yaaaaaawwwwww nnnnnnn
TT
The_TruthClub Pro471 posts
10 Sept 2015, 13:00
#11
10 Sept 2015, 13:00#11
 Whoooosh!!! Again!

*   At 38 years of age he is way past his sell by date (opinion)
*   Since his return to test rugby the Tight 5 of the Springboks is a shambles and a reason for the high number of test losses (opinion)*   He is not a carrier of balls in traffic - he is physically too weak for that (opinion)*   He is not involved in breakdown ball protection and recovery - stands around in the backline when that should be done (opinion)*   He makes a relatively high number of weak/ineffective tackles in games (opinion)
You wouldn't know what a fact is, if it bites you in the arse!

Now if I said that "at (insert your current age here) Mike still does not understand the difference between opinion and fact", it would be a fact....

If I said that "at 100 years of age Mike will still not understand the difference between opinion and fact", it is an opinion... but it could still become fact...
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
10 Sept 2015, 13:02
#12
10 Sept 2015, 13:02#12
 FFS Truth, you beat me to it. 
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
10 Sept 2015, 13:05
#13
10 Sept 2015, 13:05#13
 OK, Truth. Maybe we should give ou Tokkie some leeway. He has got at least one fact in there. "At 38 years of age (fact) he is way past his sell by date (opinion)"

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Sept 2015, 13:15
#14
10 Sept 2015, 13:15#14
Matfield might be fit but that wont detract from the fact that he is a physical liability
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
10 Sept 2015, 13:28
#15
10 Sept 2015, 13:28#15
In a very tight quarters, semi or final, I would prefer Matfield's experience alone, over most other players
He has been through that pressure, adjusted many times to it, and more importantly become accustomed to it.
Most of these youngsters haven't
Experience is paramount and invaluable on a big stage like this
 
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
10 Sept 2015, 13:33
#16
10 Sept 2015, 13:33#16
 Saffex
 
Status: Hall Of Fame 
Posts: 13434RE: What is Meyer smoking!!
September 10, 2015, 13:15:15

Matfield might be fit but that wont detract from the fact opinion that he is a physical liability


Fixed. See lesson above. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Sept 2015, 13:53
#17
10 Sept 2015, 13:53#17
 Look no further than the performance of the Bok pack in Argentina. After the Lomp led Bok pack had been demolished in South Africa....Victor comes back. Far from our scrums getting weaker, they get better. At every phase there is intelligence and purpose in our forward play.
In Durban we win no Bargie lineouts .....in Argentina we win three, two by Etzebeth who was marginalized and demotivated by Lomp taking everything on himself.....one by the great man himself.
The barking dogs miss 80 per cent of the ice berg. It's not just his great personal contributions, it's the fact that he makes every other Bok forward not just a better player, but a much better player.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Sept 2015, 13:53
#18
10 Sept 2015, 13:53#18
Matfield would not make my Bok squad of 100  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Sept 2015, 13:58
#19
10 Sept 2015, 13:58#19

Oh what utter rubbish, the reason we got better was because we played against the Argie second side away from home and Marcel kicked arse at tighthead. Matfield had stuff all to do with it.


Lood was twice the player Matfield was - it was not even close. Lood showed us exactly why Matfield should not be anywhere near the Bok side in the few tests he played.  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Sept 2015, 14:03
#20
10 Sept 2015, 14:03#20
Marcel was so good he never made the Bok squad and then got destroyed in the CC against the cheetahs. All these hackneyed phrases. Lomp was twice the player. Here's the news chump....Lomp led us to defeat, Matfield led us to victory.  
TT
The_TruthClub Pro471 posts
10 Sept 2015, 14:10
#21
10 Sept 2015, 14:10#21
In other words....

Matfield might be (adapted, suited, appropriate, proper or becoming, qualified or competent, in good physical condition, in good health, the right shape or size for, adapted to and end or a design, suitable by nature or by art, sound physically or mentally) but that won't detract from the fact that he is a physical liability.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Sept 2015, 14:15
#22
10 Sept 2015, 14:15#22
 Balls
Matfield led us to victory in a test against the Argentine B team - sure.  But in how many tests did he play and we lost because our Tight 5 malfunctioned.   We lost in 5 out of 11 played.  That is what he broad to our Tight 5.          
TT
The_TruthClub Pro471 posts
10 Sept 2015, 14:26
#23
10 Sept 2015, 14:26#23
 Hahahaha!!!!

It was actually the Argentinian B-side that won in Durban...

http://www.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/22066/9939323/argentina-make-11-changes-for-south-africa-test
TT
The_TruthClub Pro471 posts
10 Sept 2015, 14:27
#24
10 Sept 2015, 14:27#24
 And it was the one A-team player that was retained that scored the hat trick...
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
10 Sept 2015, 14:28
#25
10 Sept 2015, 14:28#25
Ja well
ok
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Sept 2015, 14:36
#26
10 Sept 2015, 14:36#26
Perv ever bombastic, ever wrong.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Sept 2015, 14:50
#27
10 Sept 2015, 14:50#27
 Now I am bombastic pointing out the factual situation s to tests Matfield played in compared to the number of tests lost.   The man remains a liability and their are three idiots who refuse to recognize facts and confuse it with opinions.   
Funny how he is rated by clowns on this site and not rated by locks who played for the Springboks.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
10 Sept 2015, 14:51
#28
10 Sept 2015, 14:51#28
 Dave is correct. Marcel is an ace when it comes to line-out time.  
OK. Jokes aside. I do not buy into this "Matfield weakens the scrum" theory and nor do I buy into the "Matfield improves the scrum" theory. 
I am no scrummaging expert but I do know that a scrum is the sum total of different combinations of people working together. Under normal circumstances you have the loose head prop with the number 4 lock behind him and the blind side flanker behind him. In addition you have the tight head prop with the number 5 lock behind him and the open side flanker behind him. The hooker and the no 8 form the "spine" of the scrum. The rest of the "spine" of the team is of course no 9, 10 and 15. 
It is common knowledge that SA play the flankers differently but not much is being made about the fact that we normally swap the two locks around as well.  We have the number five lock behind the loose head and the number 4 behind the tight head. Go check. 
With that in mind, we have to look at the two different scrummaging units between the two tests. In the first Arg test we had Beast, Lood and Marcell Coetzee on the loose head side and Koch, Etzebeth, and Brussow on the tight head side. In the second Arg test we had Beast, Matfield and Alberts on the loose head side and Marcell, Etzebeth and Brussow on the tight head side. The improvement in the scrum was, IMO, not down to one person, i.e. Marcel vd Merwe but rather a change in the combinations of players. 
Some would like to believe that rugby is an extremely simple game, while other seem to believe that it is an extremely complicated game. Both are correct in a way. The problem comes in when the one group tries to over complicate it to prove their point while the other group tries to over simplify it to prove their point. The truth is that the most important aspect of rugby is to strice a balance between the complexity and the simplicity of the game. 
And that my friends, is where the essence of the game of rugby lies. In striking a balance. It is all about balance.
Balance between experience and inexperience, balance between mobility and strength, balance between kicking and running, balance between athletic forwards and strong stocky forwards, balance between nippy and fast backline players and stronger and bulkier back-line players, etc, etc.
It is easy to throw "the 31 best players" in a hat but it is much more difficult to get the balance right. 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Sept 2015, 15:03
#29
10 Sept 2015, 15:03#29

What a load of lies when exactly did Marcel get destroyed against the Cheetahs.......what a load of crap......so him not making the WC squad is some kind of measure is it.....we are talking Meyer here you clown.


What part of the Boks playing against the Argie second stringers in the away game did you not comprehend?


Next you will be telling us that Matfield was better than Lood in the tests this year - what a fucking insult.


This might help from above "He has missed Tests through injury and others, among the opposition and within the squad, have stood taller in their all-round contribution."


It was not even close..........Lood was twice the players useless Matfield was this year - FACT 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Sept 2015, 15:10
#30
10 Sept 2015, 15:10#30
Fat man shuttup will you or come up with something new....you are a bore. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Sept 2015, 15:14
#31
10 Sept 2015, 15:14#31
 Ceradunce
There is some truth in what you said - I think you are quoting from an article here.   However, there is one thing that is missing in your argument and that is that experience is an advantage only if experienced players perform on n acceptable level.    Most of Meyer's experienced players have not performed on an acceptable basis over the last yer or longer.
In that category we have the following:-
Played regularly - but under-performed regularly
Pietersen, Morne Steyn, Pienaar, Matfield, Jannie du Plessis
Hospital Ward Cases
De Villiers, Du Preez, Alberts
When they did play they were average or in the case of Alberts poorer than poor.
No tests for two years
Kirchner
I am not only looking at one or two test matches - but all matches played on test and Super 15 level as well.   There are question marks about the performance levels of other of the 15 players as well - only the worst cases are mentioned here.   So 10 of the 15 experienced players from previous WC's are either passengers - not the best players in the positions they occupy because they under-performed compared to other players.  
There is no argument about the need for experience - but to only select players on REPUTATION and not actual performance is an abomination and that is where Meyer has fallen flat in this case.      
  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Sept 2015, 15:19
#32
10 Sept 2015, 15:19#32
Dupicate.
TT
The_TruthClub Pro471 posts
10 Sept 2015, 15:36
#33
10 Sept 2015, 15:36#33
 

"What part of the Boks playing against the Argie second stringers in the away game did you not comprehend?"


The part where the second stringers actually won the test in Durban?


http://www.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/22066/9939323/argentina-make-11-changes-for-south-africa-test


"Argentina coach Daniel Hourcade has made 11 changes to his side for Saturday's Rugby Championship Test against South Africa in Durban as he tries out new combinations before the World Cup.


The Pumas have been soundly beaten in New Zealand and at home to Australia and Hourcade will use the final game of the campaign against the Springboks to examine the depth of his squad."

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Sept 2015, 15:46
#34
10 Sept 2015, 15:46#34

No old fart the only fucking idiot on here is you who is too stupid to distinguish between a 1st string and 2nd string Argie side - how stupid are you?


Could this possibly explain why we won away and not at home - hellooooooo


But according to the genius that is you - it was down to Matfield that we won, the same guy Lood upstaged with ease


Wake up old man - some things are a little obvious that you keep missing.


How stupid are you backing a light weight old man as our savour - I cant wait to hear your pathetic excuses post this WC


No doubt the odd youngster in the side will be blamed


Roll on WC, time to lay your rugby ignorance to rest once and for all


89kg is fat is it - WOW.......but there is no getting away from 67, or thereabouts  being old

 

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
10 Sept 2015, 16:50
#35
10 Sept 2015, 16:50#35
 
I'm starting to wonder if we'll even see the playoffs!!!


CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
10 Sept 2015, 17:02
#36
10 Sept 2015, 17:02#36
"Ceradunce
There is some truth in what you said - I think you are quoting from an article here. "
Kaaaaak man. It is my own. Google any part of it and see if you could find an article where I took it from. You should know me  by now. Unlike you, if I quote something from a source, I give a link to the source or a  name my source. Now get me the article that I took it from or FO.
"Played regularly - but under-performed regularly
Pietersen, Morne Steyn, Pienaar, Matfield, Jannie du Plessis
Hospital Ward Cases
De Villiers, Du Preez, Alberts
When they did play they were average or in the case of Alberts poorer than poor."
Still more opinions. 
"it was down to Matfield that we won, the same guy Lood upstaged with ease..."


SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Sept 2015, 17:18
#37
10 Sept 2015, 17:18#37

CC we cant possibly lose to Scotland, Samoa and the USA?


Japan is a given


We are crap but.................... 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Sept 2015, 17:19
#38
10 Sept 2015, 17:19#38
 Ceradunce
So your "opinions" and those of Skunk Hitler counts  as facts - everyone else (including ex-Springbok locks - are only ignorant and their opinions are worthless.  What a load of utter BS.   
However, we will see as from next week which opinions have been factual and whose was BS.  I expect a long list of excuses and blaming of the younger players for our inevitable departure from the WC.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
10 Sept 2015, 17:49
#39
10 Sept 2015, 17:49#39
 That is where you are missing the boat, ou Tokkie. I never try to force my opinions down your throat as facts. When it is an opinion, I say so. I do not quote an opinion and then call it a fact. I have passed the facts v opinion test, ou Beesblaas.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
10 Sept 2015, 18:36
#40
10 Sept 2015, 18:36#40
 the troof fairy really takes some beating as adunce! He is asking us to beleive old man matfiled is the guy, along with young Jesse Kriel, who is the best conditioned Bok. Bwahahhahahahahahahaha how silly do you get to believe that. Troof is clearly a very naieve oak!What a pity we matfiled hasnt shown any form this year! (As if he ever did). We are now beibg told pap mvictor is superior to much younger men who train as hard. Man what a superr hero he is.Troof fairy you will find I am not one to suck up propaganda like a nicompoop!
I dont hate wee matfiled I just hate what he does to the Boks. His backline play is very weak! One can only hope the troof fairy is getting aglimmer   
↓ LOAD MORE (page 2 of 2)

More from Rugby

More news