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Where JJ goes can Step be more than a step behind

Started by Mozart48 REPLIES672 VIEWS· 12 Jul 2015, 15:35
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Jul 2015, 05:26
#41
15 Jul 2015, 05:26#41
 You stupid idiot - only an absolute idiot can come up with the rubbish you use to justify your support of Fat Frans Steyn to be in the Springbok team.  What6 a BSter Mozart remains and always will remain.     
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Jul 2015, 14:37
#42
15 Jul 2015, 14:37#42
Waaaaaahahahahahahahaha......the response is classic. Having just made a fool of himself in the dark watches of the night, the T okster turns around and calls me an idiot. Good one Tokkie!
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Jul 2015, 15:10
#43
15 Jul 2015, 15:10#43
 Mozart
Frans made things happen in big games - sure he does.  His latest thing that happened was when the Sharks played against the Stormers and he tried to tackle De Allende and twice ended up on the grass behind De Allende.  That really was a thing he made happen - a classical case of comedy.   
You are right in one respect.   For some reason or another Steyn came back from France as fat as he could possibly be and unfit to boot.  There were two instances where in tests he made relieving kicks within his own 22 and the balls rolled along the grass.  He was so fat he could not see his feet to ensure he kicked the ball correctly.   After his injury in 2012 he came back to training in January 2013 in even a worse physical condition.   He was put on a strict diet - but apparently cheated and did not lose the required weight - ie from 118 kgs to circa 105 kgs.   He was then dropped from the Sharks starting line-up because he was so clumsy and slow that he made no impression in either attacking or defending - his coach even saying he was not a center.
In 2014 he played throughout the tournament at either 12 or 10.  He was still fat and slow - but he also develop a knee problem - probably as a result of overweight.   His goal kicking improved - the rest of his game stagnated.   The further problem was that his knee problem caused him to be beaten in defense by the ball carrier stepping him and he was unable to move side-ways to prevent it.   He remained slow and his effect on backline play was in the main negative.
In 2015 he came back from Japan and weighed 106 kgs - very near to the ideal weight for a person of his height.   However, his speed was gone and his defense still effected by his knee problem.   The problem in fact in fact is confirmed by his stats - which shows a very low success rate.
So where are we now?  I think to play him based on his history before going to France is taking a serious chance because his performances since 2012 has been generally below par.   You may say he should be in the Springboks match day 23 - my question remains - is there any chance that he can contribute anything to the game of the Springboks after three years of below-par performances?         
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
15 Jul 2015, 21:57
#44
15 Jul 2015, 21:57#44
Fransie's full stats from ESPN I Played around with a few angles. He started 6 tests in the last 4 years. Won 3(Poms-2, Argie-1), Lost 2(NZ,Ozz)and was part of the  draw against Argie. The Boks only lost to Ozz twice in this time, and won 4 times.
So, Moz I don't think Fransie deserves to start at 12 for the Boks.  /" />" />
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Jul 2015, 22:08
#45
15 Jul 2015, 22:08#45
Geez Draad you seem to be writing a PhD thesis on this....but it's good to see some serious research being done. What did you conclude?  
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
15 Jul 2015, 22:42
#46
15 Jul 2015, 22:42#46
I was bored.....Not bored enough to do the same for Jean anytime soon.

I basically reinforced my gut feeling about him. He still is a top notch competitor irrespective of the number on his back, BUT:

  1. Fransie was a better Fullback than 12,
  2. has played very few tests in the last 4 years,
  3. Snorre probably had the best Bok team of the last 25 years, pity we didn't cash in more, like we did in 2009.
  4. He only started 9 games against Oz/NZ, only 2 at 12. Wasted talent, SARU should have done more to have him playing for the Boks.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Jul 2015, 22:59
#47
15 Jul 2015, 22:59#47

I got my data from Genslin Bok rugby. Yours is better because it filters out bench starts. My own feeling has always been physically Frans is the perfect modern test 10......huge boot, strong enough to stop a rampaging loosie, flypaper hands he can pick the ball off the deck at pace.

 

 

What went wrong? Well some foolish folks wrote him off as a flyhalf at 20, failing to recognize he was young and capable of adapting. There is nothing wrong with his nerve or aggression.

 

 

If Frans grew up in NZ he would have been a legend. In South Africa he was too brash....just another tall poppy that the mediocre set had to clip.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
15 Jul 2015, 23:20
#48
15 Jul 2015, 23:20#48
 When I saw him at 10 bullying in the rain all those years ago,  I thought he was going to be a legend.  Not to be... same for Lambie. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Jul 2015, 01:18
#49
16 Jul 2015, 01:18#49
 Problem is that Mozart is wrong in this case.   If Frans grew up in New Zealand he would not have been in any Super 15 franchise either at 10 or at 12.  His position would have been that he would have had to leave New Zealand to play in Australia or in the NH if he wanted to play rugby on higher level.   
Frans at full back was extremely promising - but he failed at flyhalf because he is slow in decision-making - too slow to be an effective flyhalf.  At full back he had more time on hand to make decisions.  
Nobody clipped that "tall poppy" but himself.  He never was the fastest player around - but when playing at full back his strong ball carries were really good.   When he went to France he was highly rated as a center.   However, something went wrong in France and his contract at Racing Metro was not renewed when it came to its end.  He came back to SA in poor physical condition and remained so until this year when after his Japan sojourn he had a reasonable weight.  However, his pace was gone and he remains the slowest 12 in SA on Super Rugby level.  That impacted on both his attack and defense abilities.
It is obvious that Steyn was an early developer physically and that he was top rated early - but as early he achieved as early he went flat.   He was grossly overweight in 2012, 2013 and 2014 - lost his pace completely and developed a whacky knee problem - making him too slow to be effective at center.   He definitely is not a flyhalf and the idea that he was good in defense in the channel was totally negated by his defensive stats in 2014 - he was even poorer at 10 than he was at 12.   This year he played at 10 in only one game - that is against the Force.  After the game all rugby writers condemned his performance at flyhalf outright as totally ineffective and the experiment was not repeated after his return from his banning.
You saw positives in him as a youngster - same as me.  I was extremely happy to read about his return from France in 2012, but after being disappointing in four of the tests he played in - I started looking at him carefully.  He did not live up to his early promise and at this stage is not even near international level.           
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