A question for the anti intervention crowd.

Us demands or so called "Pressure" on the ANC:

• classifying farm attacks as priority crime.

• public condemnation of " Kill the Boer song"

• no land expropriation without fair market compensation

• exemption for US entities from BEE regulations

News reports says:

The ANC has doubled down, not backed down

Rather than softening its approach, the ANC has rhetorically hardened itself. The movement fundamentally lacks humility and sees itself as at least the US's equal. (Polity)

Ramaphosa's public posture has been one of defiance. "South Africa belongs to all the people who live here. It does not belong to Donald Trump."

Some subtle shifts, but minor

Pretoria has made some quiet moves to distance itself from Iran. Ramaphosa launched a probe into how Iran came to participate in BRICS naval exercises, and reportedly tried to limit Tehran's role to observer status.

South Africa has also been attempting to strike a trade deal with Washington. (Al Jazeera) But these are tactical maneuvers, not concessions on the core demands.

The ANC's dilemma

Dropping the ICJ case against Israel, for instance, would be politically near-impossible for the ANC, whose historic sympathy for Palestine is deeply entrenched from its own liberation struggle days. (RUSI)

The ANC genuinely cannot meet several of Trump's demands without fracturing its own identity and coalition.

The cost is real but being absorbed

A 90-day tariff suspension was granted to allow for negotiations, but the ANC made no meaningful progress during that period.

(ISS Africa)

The economic pain tariffs, aid cuts, potential AGOA exclusion, is falling on ordinary South Africans, not the ANC leadership.

Trump's demand to exempt US entities from BEE is framed entirely around American corporate interests, not South African poverty or inequality.

It doesn't challenge the policy on principle, it just carves out a special lane for US companies. That actually leaves the dysfunctional system intact for everyone else while giving American firms a competitive advantage.

So paradoxically, his demand could worsen inequality within South Africa's business environment rather than fix it.

The deeper irony

A genuine challenge to BEE's failures, one framed around the poor Black majority it has failed, would be far more powerful and harder for the ANC to dismiss.

Instead, Trump's framing allows the ANC to paint any criticism of BEE as racist or neo-colonial, which actually shields the policy from legitimate scrutiny.

The people most harmed by BEE's dysfunction are largely not white Afrikaners. They are working-class and unemployed Black South Africans with a 33%+ unemployment rate.

(ISS Africa)

Come now Shark if California cedes we will eject them from the NFL, they’ll never risk that.

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I sometimes do not understand the people on this site, Iran is a diocatatorship promoting Muslim terrorism wooorldwide and funding and arming terrorism as well while spreading a religious mono[ply worldwide, In Ian itself the copuntry is governed based on an ideology develop 1 300 years ago qhwre woman ar astoned to death if accused od adultery, where people are treated like slaves. S i nillions of people fled from Iran and they will crcify site eembers coming up wth shit,

The Ayatollah Regime has a plan to create an Islamic superstate in the Middle East and in Noprth d Central Africa where they were invoved in coil as and terrorism - but according to site member that is not a problem. They have ideas that the could capture Europe in future and represent a re threat to Europe with terrorism to start of with,

As to nucear arms - the Iran Ayatolla h signmed a treaty based on corruption by the USA Gpvernment and them moved the enrichmnt plants to different venues mostly rated as army camps where no inspections were allowed.. So all they did was expanded their enruchment processes and was never to weapongrade when the USA bombed the sites The celebrations oon this site whens ome people they beleive aid that the strikes were ineffective.

So lets go back to nuclear arms usage. THe USA was the only country in the world that used niclear bombs in warfare and the resultt shcked the world. At th tme the USA was the only country with nuclear arms . France and the UK also developed nuclear armaments - but has since hen tomedthere arms down - they never used it, In time th USSR and China followed - but they never used it in warfare, Then came North Korea, Pakistan and India, North Korea is under conmtrol of China and will never be allowed to use nuclear arms in warfare. But then we get Iran governed by people who think theor death as martyrs will benefit them. Will they refrain from using nuclear arms in War bearibng ibbn mind their believe in furutre life after death will be better than it is now, The fact is they pronmise t destroy Israel byy using nuclear bombs - but ill they stop there, - no way,

I am sorry - but of [people think that iran must gp alon g like they did over the time sibnce 1977 then they must also believe the world is amde of reen cheese, China and Russia is happy about th instability Irsan create in the countries - but will not help Iran in the present scenario.

What I fail to undertand is why site members refuse to dsee and understand the factual situaion and said nothing should happen to a regime based on a theoology that is cruel and primitve and shoul be allowed a free hand to do not understand the real situatuon involving the Athreat pased by the Ayatollah regime - i hey get theor hmds on nucear bombs theyw ill use it, - in other words they be;lieve th moon is made of Green Cheese.

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America used to be a good great country, but now it is shit.

"Support?

You think what's happening is "support" for Iran . . . and Cuba?

I was talking about ANC support...the US is obviously directly opposed to these countries...ANC embrace them.

Good picture Bob...when things stabilize in Iran that oil drip will be cut and the bear will be in trouble.

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We have had two actions against Iran, the initial strike against nuclear enrichment facilities and the current war lite. Would you distinguish between the two and based on that, what should the world be doing about the terrorist state Iran. Let’s hear the alternatives.

I can make suggestions about what should of been done, but I'm not sure what can be done right now from the present position, because as they say the enemy (in this case Iran) gets a vote on what happens.

But first please, please, please, pretty please with sugar on top can you tell me what the Trump administration is actually trying to achieve with its current military action?

America used to be a good great country, but now it is shit

The degree to which the corupt Autopen Presidency the dama ge done to the ima g e of the U SA and democracy was nearty totally destroyed the country,

But first please, please, please, pretty please with sugar on top can you tell me what the Trump administration is actually trying to achieve with its current military action?

Nice try, but no. This is the string where you get a chance to tell us what should be done…not ask questions of those you disagree with on the topic,

I can make suggestions about what should of been done, but I'm not sure what can be done right now from the present position

How awkward for you. But this is all about brain storming, so let’s set aside the current status. Go back three weeks and tell us what you would have prescribed then.

How awkward for you. But this is all about brain storming, so let’s set aside the current status. Go back three weeks and tell us what you would have prescribed then.

sweet f.a

PS, are you for or against the pressure he is putting on the ANC?...for or against their support for Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, Russia and China...and do you see China as a threat to the West or South Africa at all?

It is very funny. Do liberals agree they are a threat on the rest of the world?

I remember what I posted after Midnight Hammer, I posted something to the effect that it is very ironic that the one and only country who's actually ever nuked another country remains so insistent that it be the only (or at least the leading) nuclear power.

It is very funny. Liberals developed many tools, many frameworks to determine rational thinking, rational decision making etc and they often use them to declare superiority on others.

Yet using the very same tools, the very same framework, Iran in this story is the rational agent, the US have been acting irrationally. If time, another piece to be written on that.

It is very funny because liberals ignore the MAD situation and immediately assign to Iran the irrational behaviour of using a nuclear bomb. MAD does not work for Iran. See how liberals skip that part. Iran has the bomb, Iran uses it. In any thread,on this board, this is a given and liberals never provides anything to bridge the gap. They are unable to answer how they come to the conclusion Iran will ignore MAD.

Of course, it is not about Iran using the bomb if they get it. It is about Iran being able to protect itself from being bullied around. This is what it is about and indeed, if Iran has the bomb, the US and co will no longer be able to bully Iran as they do.

Ramaphosa's public posture has been one of defiance. "South Africa belongs to all the people who live here. It does not belong to Donald Trump

Yep, and in the very next breath Ramaphosa goes to the US with a large delegation, to beg Trump for millions and millions of financial support........ to keep his own population alive in South Africa, because he is unable to provide those funds..... because his party has stolen all of it.

sharkbok, I don't think it's just Big Tech. I think we'll see a more typical USA once they impeach the clown and get a real president.

Oh happy day......Hallelujah!!!

Nice try, but no. This is the string where you get a chance to tell us what should be done

Yep..... and yet some people on here still can't even admit who they would choose to believe in this war......

It's simple..... Iran or Trump.... and it's not a very difficult or complicated question....and there is no 50 / 50 in this... it's war.

So put your stake in the ground and stand by your decision and beliefs.....would you believe the information that you get from Iran, or would you believe the information that you get from the White House.

Nice try, but no. This is the string where you get a chance to tell us what should be done…not ask questions of those you disagree with on the topic,

LOL Captain thread diversion now wants to keep the thread rigidly on topic. I've asked this question on another thread and I got no answer, I'm just going to assume you and the people who support the operation don't actually know what the Trump administration is trying to achieve, you just intend to wait for Trump to declare victory and then on whatever grounds he declares victory on, your going to then move to the position of 'oh yeah that was the objectives all along'.

How awkward for you. But this is all about brain storming, so let’s set aside the current status. Go back three weeks and tell us what you would have prescribed then.

Oh that's easy, negotiate with Iran. Now I say that for multi reasons.

1. Iran did a sign a deal with the US in the past the JCPOA agreement. Which showed that Iranian regime has been willing to make deals and honour them.
2. Iran's response to America's strikes on them last year, They telegraphed their strikes telling the American's they where going to strike one of their airbases, allowing the American's to prepare and get their defence's ready and their personal to safety. As a result the American's sustained no causalities and Trump even thanked Iran for basically pulling their punches. That reaction tells me the Iranian regime is capable of critical thinking and reasoning. Knowing they where outmatched militarily but that they had to mount some sort of response to the US attack, they calibrated a response that allowed them to save face and pretend to their supporters they had struck a blow back against the US but it also a response that prevented escalation. It indicated to me Iranian regime does did not have a suicide wish.
3. The Omani's who were involved in the negotiations before this war began and who are normally thought lipped about this stuff felt the Iran had had significant concession during negotiations, that significant progress had been made. At the conclusion of negotiations being held in Geneva the Omani Foreign Minister dashed to Washington to plead with the US to hold off on going to war as he felt a deal was within reach.
4. A British security advisor involved in the negotiations, yesterday came out and stated he too believed a deal with Iran was within reach, calling Iranian concessions surprising.
5. The US should not have sent those useless clowns Witkoff and Kushner to the negotiators, they are completely out of their depth, they should have sent proper diplomat's who were fully briefed on the region and qualified to handle negotiation's of such importance.

"The US should not have sent those useless clowns Witkoff and Kushner to the negotiators, they are completely out of their depth, they should have sent proper diplomat's who were fully briefed on the region and qualified to handle negotiation's of such importance."

100% correct. Bozo has surrounded himself with incompetent lickspittles. I commented on this when Bozo started his second term and everything I said back then is proving correct.

Hegsuck is a classic example. He doesn;t have a single qualification for the job he's supposed to be doing and the only reason he got the job is because he's been sucking up to Bozo for about a decade now. I'm suprised Sean Hannity hasn't got a cabinet post . . . but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts he was offered one.

This is all on Bozo. No-one else.

Lickspittle is such a great word……can you come up with a brilliant use of lickspittle in the movies?