FIXTURESNo upcoming fixtures — check back soon.
FORUM / MIKES GRIPES /  Europe is losing…..

Europe is losing…..

Started by Mozart41 REPLIES1,783 VIEWS· 25 Aug 2025, 18:07
SHAREXFACEBOOKWHATSAPPTELEGRAMREDDITLINKEDIN
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
25 Aug 2025, 18:07
#1
25 Aug 2025, 18:07#1

….excerpts from the WSJ:



On May 13, Elon Musk’s SpaceX launched 28 satellites into orbit in a single day, one of over 100 successful U.S. orbital launches this year. China has sent more than 40 rockets into space since January. Russia, bogged down by war in Ukraine, has launched 10 rockets.

Europe, by contrast, has launched four. Even that is an improvement: For over a year, the continent relied on SpaceX to launch critical infrastructure.

Falling behind in the space race is just one example of how Europe has lost its way. This extraordinary continent occupies just 4% of the planet’s landmass (not including Russia), yet it has shaped human history, for good and ill, more than any other region in the past 500 years. European nations conquered and administered as much as 80% of the planet, often violently. Their wars killed millions and redrew the global map. Europe was also the birthplace of modern capitalism and the industrial revolution, giving us cars, trains, the telegraph and penicillin. Its art and music still fill museums and concert halls around the world.

But today Europe, particularly Western Europe, finds itself adrift, an aging continent slowly losing economic, military and diplomatic clout. “Europe shaped history, but the risk now is that we are simply bystanders to history going forward,” says Jérémie Gallon, a former French diplomat. The continent’s economies have been largely stagnant for about 15 years, likely the longest such streak since the Industrial Revolution, according to calculations by Deutsche Bank. Germany’s economy is 1% bigger than it was at the end of 2017, while the U.S. economy has grown 19%.


Europe’s share of global economic output, measured in current dollars, fell from roughly 33% to 23% between 2005 and 2024, according to World Bank data. Much of that relative decline is due to the rise of China and India (and is less drastic using other measures of output), but the U.S. share of global output held up much better. Europe’s proportion of the global economy is now likely the lowest since the Middle Ages, according to the Maddison Project, a database that tracks economic history at the University of Groningen in the Netherlands.

The long stretch of weak European growth has opened up a big gap in incomes between the U.S. and Europe. European household wealth has grown by a third as much as Americans’ since 2009. Per capita GDP in the U.S. is now $86,000 a year, versus $56,000 for Germany and $53,000 for the U.K.


“Europe needs to wake up, or it’s dead in so many ways,” says Tracy Blackwell, the retiring CEO of Pension Insurance Corporation, a U.K. asset manager. Or as JP Morganchief Jamie Dimon said at a recent speech in Dublin, “You’re losing.”

Bad luck and bad policy

In the past 15 years, a key engine of European growth—manufactured exports—has been hobbled by events beyond its control, including U.S.-led trade wars, China’s mercantilist policies and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, which sent European energy prices skyrocketing. “What was the status quo? The Americans provide our security, the Russians provide our energy, and the Chinese provide our export market. Guess what? It’s all gone,” said British historian Niall Ferguson in March.


Energy is another problem. In Germany, industrial electricity costs three times as much as in the U.S.; in the U.K., four times as much. Britons now consume less electricity per person than the Chinese, and Germany’s overall electricity consumption is lower than it was before the Berlin Wall fell. Yet Germany has banned nuclear energy, and the U.K. has scrapped new offshore oil and gas exploration. Policymakers across Europe have laid out ambitious renewable energy plans that they say will eventually lower costs, help fight climate change and create green jobs. But the transition is proving painful.


Europe’s economic slide has been accompanied by shriveling military prowess. The continent’s share of the world’s military power is also at its lowest since the Middle Ages, after decades of focusing on welfare spending instead of defense. Though European leaders are now vowing to take defense more seriously in the face of a revanchist Russia, they are struggling to build up their forces. Britain’s entire army can fit comfortably inside Wembley Stadium.


There are exceptions. Sweden has quietly spurred economic growth by cutting back its welfare state—tightening government spending, revamping the pension system and slashing corporate and personal tax rates. Per capita incomes are now climbing, and the country has seen a burst of entrepreneurship. Sweden even moved ahead of the U.S. in the number of billionaires per capita, thanks to a thriving tech startup scene and a video-game industry that has produced hits such as Minecraft and Candy Crush.

But in most of Europe, such reforms are proving to be a big ask. Europeans consistently vote for politicians who protect the status quo and expand the welfare state. In France, which hasn’t balanced its national budget in more than 50 years, government spending is around 57% of GDP, compared with 36% for the U.S. The state subsidizes everything from vacations to back-to-school equipment for children, and cities from Dunkirk to Montpellier have made public transit free for residents.

Attempts to cut spending often lead to mass protests. In May, French taxi drivers gathered for a strike in Paris after a proposal to cut the amount they are paid by the state for ferrying patients to and from medical appointments.

British historian Andrew Roberts gives Europe a one in five chance of acting to head off a crisis. “Things were pretty rotten in the 1970s, and then we got Reagan and Thatcher and things turned around,” he said. “But it requires will and guts and the ability to tell people they can’t have free stuff, and there’s not anyone saying much of that at the moment.”








MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
25 Aug 2025, 18:22
#2
25 Aug 2025, 18:22#2

Ah the price of being woke and enshrining the little men in suits.

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
25 Aug 2025, 19:14
#3
25 Aug 2025, 19:14#3

Do you've a monthly troll post quota you need to reach or something?

TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
25 Aug 2025, 19:50
#4
25 Aug 2025, 19:50#4

Ah, woke... In fact, if Europe had been woke, Europeans would have been in a better place. European countries have spent decades aligning on the US'best interests at the expense of their own best interests and now that the US are panickling over the new expected centre of prosperity in Asia, Europe is in deep problem. Of course, this article does what liberals do: selling the idea they have government solutions for European problems. Which the article does not have. Basically, the end game is already known, no matter what, there will be winners and losers, dismiss the losers and therefore, there are only winners.


Blaming people in Europe to look for a status quo is funny considering that Trump has come to power to preserve a status quo.


A major point is that liberals who have been robbing left, right and center, in order to deny their theft, have come to dismiss the world as finished, it was a comfort thought that allowed them to dismiss questions about liberalism. Europe is taking fully the impossibility to keep denying the limits of the world. And therefore, Europe dependency is exposed and at this, its inability to find reliable sources of resources. Europe is burdened by its past which ruins many relations they must establish with many places around the world.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
25 Aug 2025, 20:04
#5
25 Aug 2025, 20:04#5

Not really a troll, but if it were it would scarcely balance the books on the Trumpet. Europe is fading and that’s not a good thing for the world. The article puts it well, absent a European Margaret Thatcher there seems little prospect that the trend will be reversed.

TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
25 Aug 2025, 20:46
#6
25 Aug 2025, 20:46#6

Considering that Margaret Thatcher is responsible for many of the present ailments of England, that would be surprising to see anything close to the policies she had work. Except of course in the liberal circular manner, losers gonna lose...

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
25 Aug 2025, 23:02
#7
25 Aug 2025, 23:02#7

Sure Trad….Africans are the real winners, what a magnificent continent.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 Aug 2025, 23:03
#8
25 Aug 2025, 23:03#8

Mozart


I wrote somwhere that in Germany ghe younsters are supoting the center-right AfD becaus the fearfor German clture being destroyed by bringubg in people whose cutue and relgious beleiefs ae de=feared b especially the younger generation. They are proud to be German - something hated by people supporting the Woke Culture. Theur comens are clear how can we be held accountable for actions of our great grand parents and even the Great-Grade drandparents. They claimed rightfully they have no reason to be ashamed kf something that happened about 80 ro 90 years aho.


It is like claiming compensation for slavery in the USA rhat ebnded in the 1860's. Or A fican countries demndin g compensarion because the colonial countries destroyed their countries, Amazing nsense anyway,

BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
26 Aug 2025, 03:41
#9
26 Aug 2025, 03:41#9
Donald Trump is becoming the greatest unifier of Europe since the end of the cold war

Fabrizio Tassinari

5–6 minutes

Seven is a biblical number, a number dear to ancient Rome, and the number of Cristiano Ronaldo’s lucky jersey. Perhaps it is also now going to be the answer to Henry Kissinger’s (probably apocryphal) question: what number do I call when I want to talk to Europe? Maybe the answer is seven, like the number of leaders sitting at the table in Washington on Monday alongside Donald Trump and Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

It’s difficult to say at this stage whether anything good will come from the impromptu White House summit, but European leaders showing up as a group in support of Ukraine was a first. This seven-member format – Nato, the European Commission, France, Germany, the UK, Italy and Finland – truly spoke with one voice. They did so on a crisis, Ukraine, over which they have sometimes been bitterly divided throughout the past three and a half years (remember Emmanuel Macron’s early concern not to “humiliate” Vladimir Putin?). Yet Ukraine is also the dossier over which European leaders have converged and yielded the greatest impact during the same timeframe: from the 18 sanctions packages the EU has imposed on Russia and the opening of EU accession negotiations for Ukraine, to the supply of weapons to Kyiv.

In Washington, we saw a rare and unprecedented yet admirably balanced European ensemble: countries from northern and southern Europe, large and small, two nuclear powers and permanent members of the UN security council, the two institutions headquartered in Brussels but often appearing to inhabit two different planets; and the UK, perfectly in tune with European positions, despite having withdrawn from its core political entity.

For those like myself who have followed the chimera that is European foreign and security policy for years, it was almost an epiphany to witness these seven leaders, each speaking for two minutes, repeating the exact same message. To be sure, they had nuances as varied as their English-language accents. Macron and his German counterpart, Friedrich Merz, insisted on a ceasefire, while Italy’s Giorgia Meloni claimed ownership of the proposal for possible military protection of Ukraine modelled on Nato’s article 5. Yet everyone agreed on the need for iron-clad security guarantees for Kyiv, keeping the transatlantic front united and the imperative of a just and lasting peace.

As always, it took a crisis to jolt Europeans out of their inertia. The immediate one began last Friday with the shameful summit in Alaska between Trump and Putin. Trump alarmingly reneged on threats and ultimatums to Russia and instead rolled out the red carpet for the Russian dictator, for reasons we may never fully understand. It continued over the weekend with the real risk that Zelenskyy could once again be the victim of an Oval Office ambush.

Paradoxically, we must thank Trump’s vanity, disloyalty, his disdain for liberal and democratic ideals, his cynicism, for giving Europeans the urgent signal they needed to dash to the table in Washington. Trump may be destroying what remains of the west; but together with Putin he is unwittingly proving himself to be Europe’s “other”, that is, the external force that is shaping its collective identity, and thus the greatest unifier of Europe since the end of the cold war.

The key question, of course, is where all this shuttle diplomacy leaves Ukraine. For good and bad, a momentum is building towards a concrete peace framework – albeit without a ceasefire, in a clear nod to Russia’s demands. The contours of this deal would involve territorial concessions in the four regions of eastern Ukraine illegally annexed by Russia in 2022. These were ominously displayed in the Monday meeting by Trump himself on a custom-made board map. The more Ukraine and the Europeans converge on the inevitability of land concessions, the more they emphasise the need for the US to provide “security guarantees”, in effect a collective defence assurance, backed by military assistance, akin to Nato’s mutual defence pledge. In the now typical Trumpian transatlantic fashion, Europe would have to pay for these. All of this, as well as longstanding Russian demands for a future new security architecture in Europe, would be the object of the much-touted direct trilateral summit between Trump, Zelenskyy and Putin.

Finland’s president, Alexander Stubb, one of the summit seven, has a maxim about how Europe works which he likes to repeat: “First there’s a crisis, then there’s chaos. And in the end, you arrive at a suboptimal solution.” One must hope that this time Stubb is wrong: the formulas being discussed now are born out of a tragedy and may well be suboptimal. But the stakes have rarely been higher: the consequences for all of Europe if these talks are followed by chaos could be devastating.

  1. Fabrizio Tassinari is executive director of the School of Transnational Governance at the European University Institute in Florence


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Aug 2025, 04:37
#10
26 Aug 2025, 04:37#10

Hahahaha….these guys have been fighting each other since the Battle of Hastings and before, and the Donald has the power to fix that! Brilliant!

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
26 Aug 2025, 10:02
#11
26 Aug 2025, 10:02#11

LMAO

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Aug 2025, 10:17
#12
26 Aug 2025, 10:17#12

BB


The above article toch on he issue in a distorted manner - since they claimed thngs that happened iro of the peace effort inititated and from the start was never even remotely true. In the first instance from the word go the negotiations always was a co-ordinated effort involvng the N ATO European countries, It actually started off even before Trump was inuagurated when a string of NATO leaders visited Trump at his home in Florida and when Trump and Zelenskyy was invited to the opening of the rebuilt Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris, Before the ceremony Macron organized a two your long meeting between himself, Trump and Zelsnkyy where the basic issues of ending fhe Ukran War were disscussed,


The dscussion aimed at finding ways to end the War and to rebuild the Ukraine economy to which Zelenskyy agreed, Trump got his Treasury Secretary to compile a draft on the latter issue aimng to use the rare earth minerals. The agreeent was delvered to his counterpart in Kiev. There was very little done in Ukraine in mining the rare minerals due to inability of the Kiev Government in what was to be a funding source for the Kiev Govenment and employment opportuntiess in Ukraine beause the Ukraine Governent neither had the money nor the expertise to undertake mining of the minerals. Trump idea was for USA Companies with expertise in the feld of mining would invest n starting off the mining initiative,in an effort to restart the Ukraine economy as a cornerstone of a sustainable peace process.


Zelenskyy agreed to sign the rare earth mining agreement and went to Washington to sign the agreement - where he made an utter fool of himself by trying to tell Trump before the media what the U S policy in Ukraine should be and was kicked out of the WH because of his totally uacceptable conduct. He rushed off to Europe in the hope that he could convince the NATO conries to support him. Starmer then called a meeing attended by leaders from NATO members to deal with the peace negotiation issue and the unanimous agreement was to support Trump's peacemakng efforts. Before a final statement on the issue was decided on and made public - Starmer hmself admitted publicly that before the final statement on the Ukraine issue of the meeting was issued he phoned Trump three times to ensure there was agreemnt on what should be announced - after which Zelenskyy apologized for his conduct in his meeting with Trump and the rare earth mineral agreement was signed by him.


The negotiations with Putin went nowhere since Fbruary 2025 and Trump publicly stated that Putin must come to the table or face serious consequences if they do not participate in peace making efforts. Trump is known to what he said will happen and Putin asked him for a meeing on the issue and Trump informed Starmer and Macron as the representatives of Europe of Putin's request for a meeing that took place in Alaska and got the imputs from the NATO members, The meeting took place and the media report knew zilch of what in fact was dicsused in Alaska and no agreement was reached on anything bar the way forward iro the peace agreement, The first call Trump made was to the NATO Secretary General on the discussions and afterwards he spoke to Starmer and Macron as well.


That ended up in a meeting organized by the WH to be attended by the leaders actually present at the meeting - inclusive of Zelenskyy. The Monday last week meeting was preceeded by negotiations on strengthening of the NATO members armies by spendng annually based on 5% of the individual GDP of countries insisted on by Trump and acknowledged by he NATO Secretary General. Wthout the strengthening of their armies the influence of NATO was a farce - the only NATO member wth a sustainable and well-armed force was Turkey - who wanted he war ended because it harmed Turkish own interests and Turkey was closely laiason with Trump on the issue of peace deal.


The fact is the intention with the Monday meeting was to ensure the NATO countries and Ukraine was in line with each other to esnure a unified approach on negotiations and at the meeing three resolutions were agreed on namely -


  1. that Trump would organize a meeting between Putn and Zelenskyy to start the next phase o the Development of peace talks;
  2. that once there was an agreement reached between Putin and Zelenskky to support peace efforts in principle the leaders represented at the Monday meeting and Trump would join the talks; and
  3. that since security gurarantees was essential on Trumps suggestion it ws ageed that a security plan and implementation program should be compiled by the NATO commanding generals under the Chairmanship of the USA Joint Chiefs of staff which would meet in Washngton - and that incldues the Ukraine army commander - to compile a plan to be considered fiinally by the NATO countries.


As a matter of fact he media claims as contained in the above article was not to back Zelenskyy against that evil Trump at all - it as n fact to ensure what the next step in he process of negotiations would be based on an agreed bassi between the NATO contries and Trump. Another BS story that came out of CNN was that Trump interruped the meeting by phoning Putin to agree to a meeting between Zelenskyy and him to be organized by Trump. The NATO members were invited by Trump to be at he meeting to determine a unified way to handle the situation as to negotiation and had zero to do with them backing and protecting Zelenskyy and Ukraine is conspiricy theories is what the above article in fact contained.


Zelenskyy agreed to meet with Putin - he previously refused to meet him. Since then the only news was that the proposed Putin-Zelenskyy meeting is being organized and envisaged to be held in Budapest under he Charmanship of Orban. Final arrangements for that meeting is under negotiation and the meeting will take place as a matter of urgency by Trump during the ensuing 14 days, Details on the issue have thus far not been finally announced by all parties involved.


NATO became a farce over the last 40 years and whatever is being done to revive the countries are in fact largely based on Trump's idea to use NATO as a strong force to be taken seriously by their enemies, The recovery of Europe from the WOKE concepts that was the case over he last two decades was initiated and promted by Trump with the European countries supporting his initiatives on issues. For the moment the WOKE ideals and culture is on retreat and the leftist media hates it and their only source is consiracy theories. Industrial development in the NATO European counries is essential and that is part of Trump's European co-ordinated plan .- something totally different from the media conspiracy theories advocated in the absence of factual information they refuse to accept.






TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
26 Aug 2025, 10:39
#13
26 Aug 2025, 10:39#13

Sure Trad….Africans are the real winners, what a magnificent continent.


From reading the Africans from this board, they do not sound like winners... And they do not feel much attached to their continent, they are no interest in its affairs and more in other parts of the world's affairs.

TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
26 Aug 2025, 11:07
#14
26 Aug 2025, 11:07#14

The OP article is imbued with liberal mentality. As usually, liberals peddle the idea they do have government solutions. Which they do not have. Many incorrect points like Europe shaping the world, certain European countries shaped the world, most of them located in Western Europe and in various degrees and involvement. Speaking of Europe as a single entity in this regard is fallacious. Other stuff like pitching Russia has part of Europe shows again a liberal touch, as liberals have divided humanity in races and as such considered places from a racial angle.


The article of course provides no solutions, it does not care. It can be seen when Sweden's trajectory is being rewritten in order to match their liberal agenda. It is given away as very often by liberals by making an outrageous claim (quoting Minecraft as the result of the changes, again, maximal disregard for basic chronology) The article introduces as causes what are effects. Sweden effectively took measures to establish a framework that would lead after re evaluation of all the elements mentioned in the articles to be cut down but only because Sweden had reached a state where they could afford such measures. This was not the cure but the result of the cure that was provided by other measures. Sweden was and probably still is on a different curve than liberal countries. One big tell is that among the public spending cut they announced was the closure of prisons. Liberalism is driven by the dichotomy winners/losers, winners gonna win, losers gonna win. And to deal with losers, liberal countries have criminalized more and more the fact of being a loser, for the upper part of a liberal society, a nihilistic state of being, always too many constraints put on them while for the lower part, never enough constraints on them leading to a totalitarian level of society. It means that liberal countries are going to build more and more prisons Especially in Europe as the number of losers is going to increase. Most European countries will need more and more prisons. Sweden is on a different path and right now, as Sweden has cleaned their act, they are now considering to increase once again public spending.


By the way, another tell is the mention of billionaires, which was unlikely to be the goal. One distinct marker of Scandinavian countries has been to maintain social homogeneity, a kind of christian tradition so to speak, people may be poor but no so much and people can be rich but not so much. Small spread around the average. Quoting the number of billionaires is more likely a sign of failure in this regard.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Aug 2025, 22:40
#15
26 Aug 2025, 22:40#15

Nit picking Trad, the gravamen of the article is Europe is in decline…demonstrably true,

TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
26 Aug 2025, 22:54
#16
26 Aug 2025, 22:54#16

And? There has been one person who has been posting for a long time that Europe is toast.

So there is no news here. And there is no news that liberals have no solutions to change this point. Contrary to their claims. And it is not nit picking. The article that keeps claiming to have solutions (as liberal do) confuse the consequences of certain measures in Sweden as the causes. Europe is toast. Decades of neglecting their own best interests to align with the US's best interests have ensured it. If Europe had been woke in the meaning of the term and not as the liberal social hysteria meaning, they could have noticed they were driving out of path. Trump's brutal liberalism is a rough wake up call but it is too late. It is going to be very hard.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Aug 2025, 23:59
#17
26 Aug 2025, 23:59#17

No news perhaps, but lots of facts….not just hot air.

TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
27 Aug 2025, 07:54
#18
27 Aug 2025, 07:54#18

No. The article is propaganda, claiming to have solutions while it has none and even more, picturing as solutions what are part of the causes of the European ailments. Hot air means nothing. It is not because sources and ways of achieve a conclusion are not revealed that the conclusion is not valid.


European trajectory has been written many times on this board, so it is nothing new. The article adds nothing, but withdraws as it is propaganda.

TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
27 Aug 2025, 08:11
#19
27 Aug 2025, 08:11#19

The article about the unification of Europe is another example of how much liberals have lost the ability to speak about things. They must dress up things.


Liberals like to speak about Putin in an attempt to divert from the fact that Putin is a mere expression of an organized Russia. An organized Russia that has spent a lot of time and money fending off the influence of the US. Russia is being structured by forces that do not want the US influence in their territory.


On the other hand, European countries have been shaped by a deep US influence. Most leaders who went to the summit are in fact leaders okayed by the US and who represent segments of populations in Europe that are strongly favourable to US interests, quite often above their own interests.


An obvious tell is that while the US political offer is openly hostile to the EU, it is hard time to find a political offer to protect from the US hostility, let alone a European political offer that is hostile to the US.


Which means by the way Europe can not defend themselves. Most of those leaders are probably tied to a US program to ensure they are loyal in the first place.


What is likely to go on is that all these segments of populations and their leaders are being made redundant by Trump who has come to administer directly the European territory. Trump has come to state what he expects to be done so all these dudes are irrelevant now.


They look like that dog owned by a master, that is sniffing around, running left and right, roll on the ground until its master yanks on the leash.


Decades of suppressing anything that could depict the US as a not so friendly entity has left Europe with no other option but to be friendly to the US. The future is known: winners are gonna win, losers are gonna lose and all the segments of the European countries that are in charge of guaranteeing the influence of the US in European societies are going to ensure it goes smoothly. They are going to suppress any tremor due to the massive changes incoming, ensuring everything goes for the better in the better world.


This is probably a reason why Europeans are not comfortable looking at Russia because they see it has maintained forces that allows it to be hostile to the US and that now, Russia gets more than the docile Europeans because of them.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
27 Aug 2025, 18:05
#20
27 Aug 2025, 18:05#20

Yeah great…..Russia with the world’s largest land mass, almost twice any other country……Russia with a population 75% larger than any other European country……Russia with vast supplies of oil and rare earths……………….that Russia has a GNP below Italy and scarcely ahead of Australia.


Some success story Trad, I bet the Europeans wish they were more like Russia huh? ….you are one confused puppy, but I’m sure Anger is grateful for your highlighting a country that has done even worse than Europe.

TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
28 Aug 2025, 08:38
#21
28 Aug 2025, 08:38#21

The misery of common liberals: their servants' actions contradict their claims. It seldom misses. Hence by the way the feeling of disconnection between their representatives and themselves.


The GDP thing is crap, already stressed it many times. Side note: According to the economist, Italy has been fudging the numbers something to expect more and more from liberal countries as they have to dismiss losers in a loser gonna lose anyway thing.


It was written that Europeans are not comfortable looking at Russia, which they must do.


Not only it is time for them to wonder how it comes Russia gets so much more than them but they must understand how they could get what Russia is getting and this is when the discomfort must rise: they have lost the core required to organize themselves and resist the US.


As a consequence of their current state, and following the atrocious deal they were forced into by the US, the EU is marked as a weak partner and other countries are now forcing the EU in one side deals or something. The EU is probably one of the first liberal actors that will thank their god to have created negroes because nobody else will be under the EU. The EU is heading for being white trash.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Aug 2025, 16:45
#22
28 Aug 2025, 16:45#22

GDP is crap…getting a little stressed Trad, not your usual language. Largest landmass….75% larger than any other country and a GDP scarcely bigger than Italy.


No Trad your icon, Russia, is the world’s biggest under performer.

SH
sharkbokCaptain20,097 posts
28 Aug 2025, 18:06
#23
28 Aug 2025, 18:06#23

Russia is a pisspot economy. As the biggest country in the world, they have lots of natural assets for primary industry exports. Their secondary and tertiary industries are stagnant- who wants to trade with Russia? Their Covid vaccine was a prime example, not one wanted it, not even Putin, who took the EU/US vaccine.

SH
sharkbokCaptain20,097 posts
28 Aug 2025, 18:19
#24
28 Aug 2025, 18:19#24

Europe has slipped behind in manufacturing capabilities because of the rise of China and Big Tech in the US.

IT manufacturing is the main problem, as this is increasingly impacting all industries - and with the rise of AI, this is accelerating even more.


Most of the American Big Tech offerings are data products. They collect information across the internet and use it without consent. Until European companies can do the same, or block US companies from doing this, there is no gap in the market.


If, for example, Facebook and X were banned from Europe, this would create a gap for alternatives.

X has been manipulating its organic algorithm to promote the narrative of Elon Musk, and has even started using it as a tool to manipulate European elections.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Aug 2025, 18:57
#25
28 Aug 2025, 18:57#25

It would have been poetic justice if Putin had been given Russiavax and a bad dose of Covid afterwards. Anybody vaccinating that man deserves a medal for bravery.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
28 Aug 2025, 20:49
#26
28 Aug 2025, 20:49#26

"No Trad your icon, Russia, is the world’s biggest under performer."


Unfortunately not...South Africa under Cyril is exponentially worse!

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
28 Aug 2025, 23:42
#27
28 Aug 2025, 23:42#27

Did South Africa launch a massive invasion of its neighbour or something?

TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
29 Aug 2025, 07:51
#28
29 Aug 2025, 07:51#28

Yes, South Africa did and benefited from vetoes from UK, France and the US. But that was under the Apartheid. If today, South Africa invades a neighbour, they will suffer heavy sanctions. Of course, no racism involved.

TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
29 Aug 2025, 08:02
#29
29 Aug 2025, 08:02#29

GDP is crap…


It is, the remark was done many times (and the posts were read) Capturing a society through one single unit is baseless. Beside, GDP is a flawed unit, it measures the capability of a society to consume, it conflates anything and everything as long as it is consumption. A crazy unit to refer to when people live in a finite environment. There are other metrics like PPP and other that reflect better the economic health of a society.

And there are empirical observations to make.


Russia is a pisspot economy.


Incorrect. The Russian economy has demonstrated it is robust enough, adaptive enough to sustain the war effort despite liberal countries pouring billions of USD on Ukraine. On the other hand, European countries have suffered more from the sanctions that they inflicted on Russia to bring it to its knees. Germany is in recession (they are about to launch a big keynesian plan to kickstart their economy again), France's debt has been spiralling out of control and it is scaring its neighbours, the UK imperial space has shrunk so much that areas of the UK are now peripheries to the empire (migrants are imported to hide the fact, they blame migrants for this when they are imported to inhabit the destitute areas) Italy is fudging numbers more than its neighbours, Spain is wishing they belong to the BRICS and more...


TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
29 Aug 2025, 08:12
#30
29 Aug 2025, 08:12#30

Their Covid vaccine was a prime example, not one wanted it, not even Putin, who took the EU/US vaccine.


Incorrect. As stated many times, the Ukrainian war is first and most motivated by trade interests. It has been confirmed with Trump's recent antics. Decades ago, the Russian trade interests believed they could join the liberal world on an equal footing. Putin, who is their man, reflected the direction. COVID was probably the straw that broke the camel's back. Russian trade interests wanted to do more than being resource based, they want secondary and tertiary sectors too. Liberal countries wanted to contain Russia as a mere resources provider.


During the COVID crisis, European countries were in chaos, the Russian vaccine was efficient (Putin vaccinated his whole family with it by the way) yet European countries rejected the Russian vaccine. The vaccine not only was efficient but it was non ARN based and there would have been a big demand for it. European countries demanded Russia to transfer their technology (and its profits) or Russia would not have access to the EU and US markets. Considering how bad the situation was, the fact that the Russian vaccine was no accepted has probably be interpreted by Russian trade interests as a strong signal that the EU would never accept Russia other than a resource provider. Later, due to a lack of funds, the vaccine fell behind as it was not profitable enough.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
30 Aug 2025, 17:02
#31
30 Aug 2025, 17:02#31

"Did South Africa launch a massive invasion of its neighbour or something?"


Whoosh!!!



ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
30 Aug 2025, 18:55
#32
30 Aug 2025, 18:55#32

I'm still waiting to see how South Africa under Cyril did something exponentially worse than causing a war that's cost hundreds of thousands of livings and over a million causalities, resulted in thousands of children being adducted, millions be forced to become refugees and cost hundreds of billions worth damages.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
30 Aug 2025, 21:52
#33
30 Aug 2025, 21:52#33

I didn’t say that...you are k@k confused...

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
01 Sept 2025, 09:53
#34
01 Sept 2025, 09:53#34

I didn’t say that...you are k@k confused...

You see how incredibly quickly Stav tried to turn what you said earlier into something which was so completely different to what you actually stated....

It's quite sad just how often he attempts to deliberately misrepresent what posters say ...

I mean..... surely it has to be deliberate..... because nobody is that stupid........ are they

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Sept 2025, 12:02
#35
01 Sept 2025, 12:02#35

Stav


Nobody support the Ukraine War and blamed Russia for it - while th e U SA un der the A utopen Presideency wanted he war and promoted it to happen.


I said from the word go that negotiation could settle the war by eaceful negitation - the last effort being the Istanbul meeting beteen the Foreign Minsters of Ukraine, Rssi and Turkey where a ceasifre was basically reached - but the idiotic Blinken as Secretary of State ordered the Ukraine Foreign Minister to leave Istanbul that day and not intial the draft agreement. That effort was sabotaged by the Autopen Presidency and a mental defecgt idiot in charge in the USA.


Since April 2022 the war tunrned into botterness and nobody tust ech other anymore,


Trump is not going to stop efforts tos top t he war - and use real sanctions if Putin undermines the negotations. This time real sanctions and not the fake actions of the Biden Regime to keep buying Russian products through third countries.


You sh ould try and stop reading only the hate-spreading leftist meduia and are going to get some real ino and facts before you ramble off on issues the emdia tells youwhat they believe - while they have no inside info copnfrming what is really happening .


Trump is going to crack the situation soon - either Putin behaves like a human or Russia is going to suffer totally from sanctions and from b eing driven into the arms of China.


So in your book and that of the fake emdia is that Trump is just helping Russia in their war and not protect Ukraine from being further destroyed. The obnly person that can force ussia into negotiations is Trump and that is the fact oof the matter. In the meantime the War is why Zelenskyy can has an extended Presidntial term without elections and he is trying his utmost to keep the War going on. The wishes of the corrupt shit in the USA and Ukraine is what is really playing a majpr role in trying to keep the war going.



.




DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
01 Sept 2025, 15:31
#36
01 Sept 2025, 15:31#36

"I didn’t say that...you are k@k confused...

You see how incredibly quickly Stav tried to turn what you said earlier into something which was so completely different to what you actually stated....

It's quite sad just how often he attempts to deliberately misrepresent what posters say ...

I mean..... surely it has to be deliberate..... because nobody is that stupid........ are they"



I think he assumes some intent for comments, extrapolate from that and then respond to what he thinks you meant, and getting everything wrong in the process.


DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
01 Sept 2025, 15:51
#37
01 Sept 2025, 15:51#37

I think he assumes some intent for comments, extrapolate from that and then respond to what he thinks you meant, and getting everything wrong in the process.

That is a very....very polite way of saying it

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Sept 2025, 16:26
#38
01 Sept 2025, 16:26#38

It’s straight out of the Woke playbook….very trans parent (sic).

BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
02 Sept 2025, 00:48
#39
02 Sept 2025, 00:48#39

Stav


Nobody support the Ukraine War and blamed Russia for it - while th e U SA un der the A utopen Presideency wanted he war and promoted it to happen


ouMaaik you make arguing with you well nigh impossible


TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
03 Sept 2025, 08:27
#40
03 Sept 2025, 08:27#40

I think he assumes some intent for comments, extrapolate from that and then respond to what he thinks you meant, and getting everything wrong in the process.



Very funny. Actions usually are done with an intent. Comments follow the trend. Chronologically, in the thread, remarks were made about Russia and were dismissed by liberals as they can not accept them.


It climaxed when liberals threw that Russia was the biggest underperformer and stuff. This was claimed while providing elements to prop up the claim. Then right after, another claim was made that SA was exponentially worse than Russia. No elements were provided to prop up the claim. From this, intent must be assumed because the claim is outrageous, it followed a claim that is itself already outrageous (Russia as the biggest under performing country) The human brain at work, trying to find patterns and to fill the gap.

Then comes a reaction to this outrageous claim that went for the carotid directly, Russia invaded another country, and SA did not. Which reflects the magnitude of the intent behind.


Because what intent could explain throwing in that SA is exponentially worse underperforming than Russia considering the elements provided to prop up the claim Russia is the biggest underperforming country?


As no elements were provided, it is expected that human brains work to fill the gap. The claim is so outrageous, a matching intent must exist.


Instead of invoking wokeness to repel a natural brain action, providing elements to put in context this outrageous claim could work. But as elements to prop up the claim are going to be weak, it is better to avoid doing it and blame natural brain function.


Group thinking at work. The thought does not matter as long as the thought is shared by the group.


↓ LOAD MORE (page 2 of 2)

More from Mikes Gripes