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FORUM / MIKES GRIPES /  Europe plans to take away freedom to drive in 2022

Europe plans to take away freedom to drive in 2022

Started by Mozart33 REPLIES971 VIEWS· 27 Mar 2019, 19:40
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
27 Mar 2019, 19:40
#1
27 Mar 2019, 19:40#1
The latest European power grab involves your car, and will be on cars from 2022 if legislation passes. This technology that works off GPS 1 Wont allow your car to exceed the speed limit, even if you are rushing somebody to hospital. 2 Will brake automatically for cyclists and pedestrians....having experienced this on my current vehicles, this braking often occurs when the system incorrectly interprets movement and is quite violent. 3 The car will prevent you from driving if you fail the breathalyzer test it administers. This turns one of our last freedoms into another government preserve. Who knows what other activities in cars will be outlawed in the geriatric nanny state called Europe.....Brexit!!!!
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Mar 2019, 20:30
#2
27 Mar 2019, 20:30#2

Mozart

In Communist countries  people needed internal passports to travel from one city or town  to another city or town.   That is where the  EU is going too.   Expect that ruling sooner rather tha n later.    

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
27 Mar 2019, 20:45
#3
27 Mar 2019, 20:45#3

Some of the things sound logical, but what's next? Forced after birth abbortions if you don't meet a certain criteria? We are losing our freedom one small step at  a time. Some elected (by low IQ electorates) are making laws that have a direct impact on my life...and I can do nothing about it. Mob rule is here to stay.

SH
sharkbokCaptain23,220 posts
27 Mar 2019, 20:47
#4
27 Mar 2019, 20:47#4
I think this is a good idea- assuming it works properly. It is the first phase of doing away with manual driving altogether. In time satellites will control all cars.
Statistically driving is the most dangerous activity. My guess is that it will reach a tipping point, and the same thing will happen everywhere in the world. The US will do the same, as will other countries. 
If the tech was really advanced, their could be ways to speed cars up in emergencies. Crashes will become rare, and everyone will be safer.
South Africa taxis will probably be the last to adapt in the year 5000.
By the way, Google and Uber will probably be a big player in this market- for driving automation. 
I find it very annoying when people speed. For example, if it is a 30-mile speed zone, if someone drives at 45 they are an idiot. 




RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
27 Mar 2019, 21:15
#5
27 Mar 2019, 21:15#5
Moffie stamping his foot and demanding his right to drive while in his normal drunken state.
Reminds me of the first meeting between Moffie and Dense . . . "we were drunk but Dense didn't drive . . . no hang on, we weren't drunk and Dense drove . . . no, wait a minute . . . Dense was drunk and he drove . . . gulp . . ."
I'd actually rather some robot was driving in the traffic next to me than a geriatric old drunkard like Moffie.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
27 Mar 2019, 21:17
#6
27 Mar 2019, 21:17#6

Ya Snark, good idea, what's next? Not allowed to walk outside without GPS controller? They are turning up the heat and the frogs are just about to start boiling...too late to jump out now.

SH
sharkbokCaptain23,220 posts
27 Mar 2019, 21:26
#7
27 Mar 2019, 21:26#7

Another Globalist conspiracy Draad ? 

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
27 Mar 2019, 23:15
#8
27 Mar 2019, 23:15#8

Dr Moz indeed they will be getting the thought police up and ready to deal with any dissent it will be called hate speech. The Globalist NWO will be the greatest tyranny this world has ever seen. A one world government they totally control.

Regarding Brexit it seems to me the very worst deal is May's deal which is not Brexit at all. Better to remain in the EU than that and fight the globalists in the EU Parliament. Every chance of winning that battle as opposi tion to their rule rises every day


SH
sharkbokCaptain23,220 posts
27 Mar 2019, 23:33
#9
27 Mar 2019, 23:33#9
Beeno, did you even read what this post was about? You just seemed to copy and paste your globalist tripe into the comments section.
Is this a new fashion in South Africa? The Globalists this, the Globalists that. This is a non-issue in Europe, at least in the mainstream anyway.
Sure everyone has heard about a post-apocalyptic world with a few corporations (or capitalists) ruling the world, or even AI like terminator ruling the world etc- but it seem's a big thing for some South Africans these days. 


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Mar 2019, 00:04
#10
28 Mar 2019, 00:04#10
Driving death rates are dropping way down, because cars are safer. The biggest risk is distraction.....enforce cell phone rules. And if you are such a kill joy and really believe all speed limits are justified Shark....you should be all for Brexit. They drive way faster in Europe.
CR
CrusadersfanPro3,099 posts
28 Mar 2019, 00:15
#11
28 Mar 2019, 00:15#11

Hey beeno, your god is all for thought control so I would imagine you would be all for it.

Just another example of double standards from the christians

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
28 Mar 2019, 08:52
#12
28 Mar 2019, 08:52#12

"Hey beeno, your god is all for thought control so I would imagine you would be all for it.

Just another example of double standards from the christians"


"Free will" is at the center of Christianity, the fact that some so called Christians want to force their sense/brand of morality on others is heresy. I don't see Beeno saying: "Convert to my way of thinking or get your head chopped off."

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
28 Mar 2019, 08:56
#13
28 Mar 2019, 08:56#13

Shark, do you have one of these cars? What does it cost? Will all the cars that does not have these gadgets be illegal? Will owners be reimbursed? How?

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
28 Mar 2019, 11:08
#14
28 Mar 2019, 11:08#14
I also think that it is a good idea. I am not in favour of driverless cars. Simply because it takes away the burden of responsibility from the driver. Something else that is also becoming compulsory in new cars is early accident warning systems. I would welcome a car with such a feature, provided you would be allowed to turn it of. You should have an option to use it or not but when you turn it of and you are then caught speeding or causing shit, then they should nail you as hard as possible.
SH
sharkbokCaptain23,220 posts
28 Mar 2019, 11:18
#15
28 Mar 2019, 11:18#15

In the UK, the roads are narrow, and there are often cars parked on the side of roads. This creates lots of obstructions and blocks visibility. Most crashes are caused when people go over 30 miles per hour because there is no time to react. 

It is a very densely populated place with limited space.

In town areas, 30 miles per hour is the maximum speed limit. Sometimes when you pull out into a road, someone that is going over 30 miles is just not visible at the time of entering the road via a junction. 

Slowing down, even more than 30 miles per hour, when there are obstructions is also a good idea.

 I think in 10-15 years time driverless cars via satellite will be a better option. Once a computer has a program that is advanced enough- statically driving will become much safer. It also is possible to drive faster once the system is advanced enough. If the system was 100%, driving speeds up to 400 miles per hour etc, could be feasible. 


DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
28 Mar 2019, 12:44
#16
28 Mar 2019, 12:44#16

The article said in 3 years time. Technology is always a good thing, but forcing on people isn't right either. And Shark, it's no conspiracy theory , it's a product from our society. The more densely populated we become, the more difficult it is to live together in relative peace. More rules becomes more complex. Big problems arise when we elect stupid people to make these laws and regulate society. Throw in a bit of greed and you've got a recipe for desaster.

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
28 Mar 2019, 13:17
#17
28 Mar 2019, 13:17#17
@Sharkbok. Correct about the traffic and roads over here. I wanted to mention that. For those not familiar with UK roads and traffic.. Mostly the only places in the UK where you can really drive fast is on the motorway and even that comes with quite a lot of qualification. You have no chance of doing that unless it is on really quite days, which is also the exception. The normal, as per the satnav, travelling time for us to travel from Reading to Taunton, is about 2hr 9min for the 128m trip. The norm, however is somewher between 3 hours and up to 4 hours and sometimes longer. Our longest time was when there was a minor accident near Swindon. We left Reading at around 5pm and we arrived in Taunton at 11pm. And that is travelling on a three lane motorway. Apart from the motorways and dual carriageways where the speed limit is 70 mph, you have a speed limit of 60mph. That is roads that fall under the Highways Code. Roads under the jurisdiction of local authorities have their own limits where the maximum is normall either 20mph, 30mph, 40 mph or, at best 50mph. The irony is that it is usually not even possible to reach the maximum speeds in the respective zones simply because it is not safe to do so. Not even in the 50mph and 60mph zones. That is particularly due to the factors that Sharkbok mentioned. That is why I think that, at least in the UK, this system would rather be a nice to have. Having it or not would not make much of a difference, IMO.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Mar 2019, 16:03
#18
28 Mar 2019, 16:03#18

Now lets get to the straight ad narrow - ie as narrow as the roads are in Europe.   Personally I think that rules gets stricter and with good reason.    I have in fact no problem worth trying to ensure safer roads and the use of modern technology is no doubt the answer.  After all there are already serous restrictions on cars entering the central cities in Europe and those did not come from the EU.

Problem is the EU rules are regarded as interference in their daily lives and disliked by people.  It  would be better if the EU provide guidelines for member=countries to consider. After all circumstances differ from country to country,

However, I am afraid the dictatorial behavior of the Brussels Government has to be accepted and  made applicable to all countries.    Who is going to pay for getting their cars updated to cater for the testing - obviously the owners and drivers of the cars,  Another Yellow Vest revo lt in the offing.               

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Mar 2019, 16:24
#19
28 Mar 2019, 16:24#19
Sure.....so lets ban motor cycles. And if cars aren't allowed to exceed 70 miles an hour, why make cars that can exceed 70? Artificially limit cars to that speed or better yet exclude that capability in the drive train. And by the way, as my old maths prof argued....don't just control the first derivative, control the second derivative....acceleration. No zero to 60 in under 12 seconds......totally unnecessary for functional efficiency And while we are about it ban boxing, rugby, skateboarding, gymnastics and mountaineeing. We can all sit around on our cellphones talking to each other. All part of a Borg like collective. What fun!
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
28 Mar 2019, 16:57
#20
28 Mar 2019, 16:57#20

Perfect point Moz. When will it end? We keep on giving away our freedom bits and pieces at a time. To what end? Hive mind in the making? Me thinks not. Evil Dictator seems more likely.

SH
sharkbokCaptain23,220 posts
28 Mar 2019, 17:03
#21
28 Mar 2019, 17:03#21
AI is the future, embrace it or be replaced by it. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Mar 2019, 17:21
#22
28 Mar 2019, 17:21#22
Not in my future, I lived in the era when men were free.....we were never controlled, even as children. I have no intention of being controlled now. Thankfully in the US we have States, and even if one state wants to become a Collective, there are other options. Another reason not to be part of a Union like Europe, where sovereign countries are less free, more committed to general rules, than States in the USA.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
28 Mar 2019, 17:41
#23
28 Mar 2019, 17:41#23
I actually agree with Moz as well. That is why I had a condition in my support for it. I said: “I would welcome a car with such a feature, provided you would be allowed to turn it of. You should have an option to use it or not but when you turn it of and you are then caught speeding or causing shit, then they should nail you as hard as possible.”
SH
sharkbokCaptain23,220 posts
28 Mar 2019, 20:42
#24
28 Mar 2019, 20:42#24
Driving serves a functional purpose of getting from A - B. If technology can make it faster and safer it is a no brainer.
In America, people love to consume. "The American consumers are growing in confidence" is a favourite saying on Wall Street. So part of the American thing is to buy cars that consume lot of petrol, gas guzzlers. Europe is more environmentally friendly and less materialistic by nature. Taxes reward conservation of resources, but Americans love to be locusts that consume as much as possible. For example, Americans love to go to Las Vegas and waist as much as possible, they will buy huge meals and not even eat half of it. 
I knew a brother and sister who lost their parents when we were around 15 years old. They were driving along, and out of nowhere a drunk driver rode into them and killed them. It was in broad daylight, on the main street that runs parallel to the beach. Driving is statistically the most unsafe place. People also make genuine mistakes, and it is not always negligence. 
Someones little indignant right to drive around can be replaced with a better system. America will follow suit anyway, maybe not at first but there are still people that would see the reason.
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
28 Mar 2019, 22:40
#25
28 Mar 2019, 22:40#25
Only someone who has never lost a loved one to a drunk driving incident . . . or someone who has no love for anyone other than himself . . . or someone who regularly drives in a drunken state and just doesn't care . . . would campaign against measures protecting other people from drunken drivers. Moffie would appear to be one of those people.
The alternative is too horrible to contemplate . . . someone who insists on the right to drive in a drunken state who has actually lost a loved one to a drunk driving incident or has caused the death of anyone due to drunken driving . . . that's actually hard to imagine. I sincerely hope Moffie is not one of those.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Mar 2019, 22:40
#26
28 Mar 2019, 22:40#26

SB

In many ways I agree with you on this topic - but the critical mistake was to levy revenue through the petrol price to make available money for measures that could help to prevent an environmental disaster,  Critical mistake because the price of petrol is in all countries already a major revenue earner for Government  - and the further price increase caused the yellow vest upheavals.   Things are not all that good in England either,

I dislike the idea that the EU Government in Brussels lays down the rules and every other country must kow-tow  and implement it  that may end up having negative implications,   The wise ting would have been to propose changes that the Governments of individual countries can then consider for implementation/ ,           

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Mar 2019, 23:37
#27
28 Mar 2019, 23:37#27
You sincerely hope, sure Peeper......look doos, you are the alcoholic, not me. I sometimes go for a month without bothering to take a drink. But I do like a quality Malt if it's cold or a fine glass of wine. For the flavour.....not the alcohol. The alcohol only makes me drink less....but that's the bit suiplappies like you crave. Let's not get confused. I have driven for 54 years in the USA, S Africa, Australia, NZ, Venezuela, Mexico, Italy, Denmark England, France, Italy, Belgium, Holland and Greece, and I have never had any accident that involved another vehicle. So do us a favour and take your AA tripe with you as you close the door.
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
28 Mar 2019, 23:44
#28
28 Mar 2019, 23:44#28
Sounds like Moffie has been adding to the drunken driving statistics in over 10 contries and for 54 years . . . and he readily admits it without a single condemnation of drunken drivers like himself and Dense . . . almost as if it's his right to kill innocent people in his drunk en state. 
SH
sharkbokCaptain23,220 posts
28 Mar 2019, 23:48
#29
28 Mar 2019, 23:48#29
Are Fatal Car Accidents on the Rise?•••BY EMILY DELBRIDGE Updated March 25, 2019https://www.thebalance.com/are-fatal-car-accidents-on-the-rise-4171847

Have you been feeling more anxious about getting in a car more now than ever? In 2016, the latest figures available, the National Safety Council estimated that 40,200 individuals died in car accidents––a 6 percent rise from 2015. The previous year saw a similar increase in fatal crashes: 7 percent. In just two years, that means we have seen a 13 percent rise in car accident fatalities, the most significant jump in more than 50 years. What is causing this, and what can be done about it? 

What Is Causing The Increase In Fatal Car Crashes

There are many different factors at play. Some government officials argue that one of the most significant factors is the lax enforcement of and laws on the books that cover drunk driving, speeding, and seatbelt laws. Many states do not consider the lack of wearing a seatbelt to be an offense an officer can pull someone over for, and speed limits around the nation are rising. Given that about half of all fatal car crashes happen to a victim that is not wearing a seatbelt, and about a third of fatal accidents involve a driver who was impaired by drugs and alcohol, the logic that these all contribute to the deadly car crash epidemic may very well hold true.

As the New York Times reported, seeding may play a role in all of these cases. David Brown, a research associate at the University of Alabama’s Center for Advanced Public Safety, notes that “Total crashes were up less than 5 percent, but fatalities were up 25 percent,” he said in an interview. “I think speeding is the No. 1 problem. There are times of the day when we only have one or two troopers on duty in a county so that you can speed, and there is no one there to deter it.”

In addition to the law and order reasons for the increase, there are also simpler ones. Since the economy has been continuing to improve, people are driving more to their jobs and on family trips and joyrides. But that does not explain the increase in fatal accidents, because the number of deadly crashes per mile driven is also on the rise. In addition to the traditional sources that can divert one’s attention from the road, such as eating, speaking to passengers or chatting on the cellphone, new dangers are also emerging as people become more reliant on technology.

Distracted driving from new sources––think scanning Facebook, Instagram, Twitter or Snapchat on your phone––have also been blamed for part of this increase. 

Are There Any Times That Fatal Car Crashes Are Most Likely? 

Hospital visits to the emergency room are often highest around the holidays, and likewise, fatal car accidents correspond to times when risky behavior is often overlooked. July 4th, in addition to fireworks, brings with it the highest number of fatal car crashes. Second to July 4th is January 1st, presumably because drivers are either sleep deprived or still walking off the effects of a midnight toast of champagne. Indeed, nearly half of either the drivers or the victims of deadly crashes on both of these dates have blood alcohol levels over 0.08, which is the legal limit in most states and localities.

Close on the heels of New Year's Eve regarding fatal accidents is April 20th or “420,” the unofficial holiday on which legal (and probably recreational) marijuana sales are the... highest. You are about 12 percent more likely to get in a fatal car crash on 420 than on any other day of the month. 

What Can We Do To Stop Fatal Car Crashes? 

There are several possible solutions in the works, and none of them are without controversy. The National Transportation Safety Board has started a highly ambitious initiative that is aimed at eliminating fatal car crashes in the next 30 years. This initiative is future looking and mostly relies on the assumption that self-driving cars which are also extremely safe and self-efficient will soon rule the roads, a possible future is also not so sure. 

Without requiring massive technological advances, there are other measures consumer advocates are backing. The National Safety Council advocates for smart ignition locks that keep drunk drivers from driving their cars, mandatory seatbelt laws, and banning the use of all cell phones for drivers.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Mar 2019, 00:11
#30
29 Mar 2019, 00:11#30
Americans are driving more than ever before, according to new data released today by the Federal Highway Administration. Drivers in cars, trucks, minivans and SUVs put a record 3.22 trillion miles on the nation's roads last year, up 2.8 percent from 3.1 trillion miles in 2015. It's the fifth consecutive year of increased miles driven on public roads and highways, reflecting a strengthening economy, but it also "underscores the demands facing American's roads and bridges," according to a statement from the FHWA, "and reaffirms calls for greater investment in surface transportation infrastructure." ...... The genius who wrote your article missed that hey Shark. My guess is the biggest factor explaining the rest is down to texting when driving which is way up and perhaps the increased percentage of highway driving. I doubt speed changed much if at all between 2015 and 2016. Typical fake news, see a bad phenomenon and pin it to something you don't like.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Mar 2019, 01:20
#31
29 Mar 2019, 01:20#31
Peeper the difference in our drinking habits are, you drink plonk every night for the alcohol.....I might have glass of the good stuff twice a week for the flavour. The chances of driving inebriated are heavily in your favour....after all that's your state every night, and I find it very unlikely you don't ever drive at night.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Mar 2019, 04:39
#32
29 Mar 2019, 04:39#32

There is one thing Mozart said that is real and that is that there was over the last 30 years or so  not enough road updates and maintenance updates on US roads,   I found that out from SA Engineers who attended numerous conferences in the USA on road issues - especially also how those affect SA roads issues.

The same applies to SA - but here we have that major killer called grossly overloaded minibus taxis  as well.    Most of those are not even roadworthy and the driver could buy drivers licenses over the counter for R200. 

No modern technology or road improvements would change the latter.

SH
sharkbokCaptain23,220 posts
29 Mar 2019, 13:06
#33
29 Mar 2019, 13:06#33
So the number of road accidents is on the increase. It is pretty obvious that the more time spent driving will result in more crashes. AI will fix this and make the road a safer place, and get people from A to B faster. A no-brainer really. 
As for Taxis', if they were self-driving there would be no choice but to follow the law. 
If someone wants freedom of expression, take up painting in your spare time. The road is not a place for arseholes. 
The key thing is making the road safer, and making travel faster. 
It seems the United States Government is on the same page, https://www.nhtsa.gov/technology-innovation/automated-vehicles-safety

They have a blueprint for evolving from manual into totally automated driving. Another badly written article? 
Democratic law works by balancing rights. Individual rights vs the total of society as a whole. For example people have freedom of movement and space, but that does not mean they can swing their arms right in front of someone else's face, because that infringes the other persons rights. This is the best course of action for society as a whole. 
The US Government and EU government's can see this. Pretty simple really...." Level 5An Automated Driving System (ADS) on the vehicle can do all the driving in all
circumstances. 
The human occupants are just passengers and need never be involved in driving.


Benefits of Automation

SAFETY

The safety benefits of automated vehicles are paramount. Automated vehicles’ potential to save lives and reduce injuries is rooted in one critical and tragic fact: 94 percent of serious crashes are due to human error. Automated vehicles have the potential to remove human error from the crash equation, which will help protect drivers and passengers, as well as bicyclists and pedestrians. When you consider more than 35,092 people died in motor vehicle-related crashes in the U.S. in 2015, you begin to grasp the lifesaving benefits of driver assistance technologies.

ECONOMIC AND SOCIETAL BENEFITS

Automated vehicles could deliver additional economic and additional societal benefits. A NHTSA study showed motor vehicle crashes in 2010 cost $242 billion in economic activity, including $57.6 billion in lost workplace productivity, and $594 billion due to loss of life and decreased quality of life due to injuries. Eliminating the vast majority of motor vehicle crashes could erase these costs.

EFFICIENCY AND CONVENIENCE

Roads filled with automated vehicles could also cooperate to smooth traffic flow and reduce traffic congestion. Americans spent an estimated 6.9 billion hours in traffic delays in 2014, cutting into time at work or with family, increasing fuel costs and vehicle emission. With automated vehicles, the time and money spent commuting could be put to better use. A recent study stated that automated vehicles could free up as much as 50 minutes each day that had previously been dedicated to driving.

MOBILITY

While its full societal benefits are difficult to project, the transformative potential of automated vehicles and their driver assistance features can also be understood by reviewing U.S. demographics and the communities these technologies could help to support.

For example, automated vehicles may also provide new mobility options to millions more Americans. Today there are 49 million Americans over age 65 and 53 million people have some form of disability.

In many places across the country employment or independent living rests on the ability to drive. Automated vehicles could extend that kind of freedom to millions more. One study suggests that automated vehicles could create new employment opportunities for approximately 2 million people with disabilities.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Mar 2019, 15:26
#34
29 Mar 2019, 15:26#34
We know all that ....I'm have recently accumulated a position in Nvidia stock which is a leader in driverless car software. It's stock is way down from the peak. In part because bitcoin which it supports has tanked, but also because driverless cars are further away than originally thought.....so contain your joy a bit. But I'm pulling with you, when it really enters the market at least I'll feel a positive hit in the pocket book to console me for my loss of freedom. My own guess though is people's right to their current cars wont be easily conceded by the political system, and the interaction of human pilots who rely on intuition and computer pilots who rely on dumb logic is going to be a problem....I plan to exit long before then. But please, stop assuming the rest of us are from Matjiesfontein.
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