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Is Ramaphosa too weak to solve our crisis

Started by Seb17 REPLIES533 VIEWS· 15 Jan 2020, 20:33
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SebPro2,680 posts
15 Jan 2020, 20:33
#1
15 Jan 2020, 20:33#1

Daniel Silke: Ramaphosa is yet to tame his own party

Jan 14 2020 22:48 Daniel Silke

 

“It hasn’t been an auspicious start to the political year.

 

Kimberley and ANC108 offered the hope of a fresh approach as South Africa struggled with a further cut to its economic growth forecast and threats of increased load shedding.

 

Instead, a lacklustre crowd listened to a somewhat sterile address from President Cyril Ramaphosa that visibly failed to ignite any passion among the party faithful, let alone those outside of the ANC seeking an urgent reboot of economic policy and performance.

 

And, while the sun baked down on a sparse Tafel-Lager Stadium, the first 2020 signs of more internal angst within the ANC were swirling.

 

  

 

Caught up in the larger maelstrom of party and palace intrigue was Pravin Gordhan – a long time target for a variety of competing yet often complimentary political forces seeking to either find a scapegoat for unresolved issues or running scared of the internal policing of malfeasance that Gordhan promises to unleash.

 

For President Ramaphosa, the first working weekend of January has been tough. Once again, his repetitive and platitudinous remarks and comments have failed to show that the ANC is really ready to confront both the policy and political demons holding it and the country back.

 

The ANC birthday bash was always going to be an event largely aimed at celebrating the movements historical achievements. But history today is not good enough. In fact, without a current, coherent strategy, it’s all the party now has going.

 

But, this year was different. The current economic crisis has placed an extra burden on President Ramaphosa. He has presided over a year of further economic decline and large scale business-related depression. The birthday bash was therefore being closely watched by a variety of observes for signs of change. There was none.

 

It did seem as though the president simply did not wish to confront the more politically charged issues at hand. Structural reforms, public-private mixes, a bloated bureaucracy and government expenditure issues were largely ignored. Perhaps these issues were simply too controversial for a birthday bash audience. Perhaps they were just too divisive to even mention. Perhaps the ANC has become stuck in its own quicksand in dealing with them.

 

But ultimately, there is a journey the president has to undergo even before reforms are implemented. And Kimberley offered an opportunity to begin 2020 with some tailwinds.

 

As leader of the ANC, Cyril Ramaphosa has to talk to his party. He has the tough and possibly unenviable job of beginning a real dialogue deep with branch and higher structures of the need to accept a different way of doing business.

 

Unless he can take his own party along on the ride to economic reforms, the president will largely continue to dole out Kimberley speeches with little real practical effect other than a declining economic performance.

 

The internal re-education of the ANC is, perhaps, the most urgent and simultaneously demanding issue at hand.

 

   

 

With Finance Minister Tito Mboweni tweeting on the side-lines in the wee hours his own frustration with the pace of economic reforms, it became clear that the ANC’s rank-and-file have yet to endorse structural changes – at least those mooted by the National Treasury/Mboweni plan. For these reforms to endure, they will need to filter through the ANC’s congress machinery and into more pragmatic resolution-making which hitherto still represents the past decade of increasing populism under Jacob Zuma.

 

Perhaps, therefore, the president is caught in a policy trap. Until such a time as the broader ANC makes policy recommendations commensurate with a modern, more social-market economic philosophy, real changes simply cannot be implemented. For any president of any country, the lead has to come internally from the party mechanisms and there is little sign as yet that these are keeping pace with the Mboweni/Ramaphosa/Gordhan axis. Indeed, the contradiction here is that the ANC leadership is ahead of its own party – by leaps and bounds.

 

This last weekend continued this theme. And, as those increasingly threatened with prosecutions over state-capture and corruption-related malfeasance feel the heat, attempts will be made to weaken the presidency further. Witness the resumption of a broad-based campaign to weaken Pravin Gordhan – and if successful, President Ramaphosa by association.

 

There are really two concurrent battles now at play. One is related to the ANC’s own economic philosophy which now seems to be seemingly entirely in disarray. The ANC’s still-socialist (perhaps even quasi-populist) flank cannot really move to the centre. Yet, it’s pragmatic centrists surely can. But those centrists represent a political threat to the populists who are now feeling the Public Protector’s heat. The ANC therefore is in a state of both economic and political extremis with ideology and factional survival all intertwined.

 

Expecting President Ramaphosa to cross his own personal ‘Rubicon’ on the public stage at an ANC birthday bash is therefore probably naive. But the central challenge is whether the ANC’s activists in all its party formations, can begin to tackle the complexity of economic reform. Kimberley would’ve been a start for this – even in a sentiment shift – but it was not to be. Only a confident president relaxed in his own skin can take a lead – and one does now wonder whether President Ramaphosa can muster this with all the skill and risk involved to take the giant steps needed.”

 

I don’t give any hope of this happening…Ramaphosa is a weak leader.

 

It’s a case of the tail wagging the dog.

 

 

 

 


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Jan 2020, 21:38
#2
15 Jan 2020, 21:38#2

YES The Government need people of strength of character.

 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Jan 2020, 21:38
#3
15 Jan 2020, 21:38#3

YES The Government need people of strength of character.

 

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
15 Jan 2020, 22:04
#4
15 Jan 2020, 22:04#4

Ramaphosa is a figurehead and not a leader. The ANC is run by mob rule and has no leadership.  If CR really tries to fight corruption in the ANC, he'll be called back immediately.  There are no honor amongst thieves and the ANC is the worst bunch of thieves. 

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
16 Jan 2020, 07:47
#5
16 Jan 2020, 07:47#5

If he wants to keep lining his pockets, he'll do as he's told.

He's a typical African. Self serving. He doesn't care about his people nor this country. It's all about getting as much as he can, while he can.  

The whole continent is riddled with his kind.

Just another useless native given power.




BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
16 Jan 2020, 09:46
#6
16 Jan 2020, 09:46#6

Meanwhile while South Africa suffers under socialist rule and people who are self serving and corrupt to the core, the stock market in the USA recorded yet another record high. Its now up 58% in three years!! 

Trump has just signed the first phase if the China deal and USMCA is about to pass. So 2020 looking great for USA. Next will be sorting out Europe! 

Here in South Africa we have voters like poor rooitwit who asks what has Trump ever done for the USA. No wonder we have problems! 

Nutcases like rooibozo should be certified and stripped of voting rights. Election day in SA would then take about an hour to complete! 

Rooibozo you are not alone. Hahahahaha. 


RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
16 Jan 2020, 10:15
#7
16 Jan 2020, 10:15#7
"Here in South Africa we have voters like poor rooitwit who asks what has Trump ever done for the USA."
Yet another barefaced lie from the resident serial liar.
I don't have to ask anyone what Bozo has done for the USA. I know what he's done. He's increased the national debt by over $4 trillion; he's spent billions of dollars building a small fraction of a wall that nobody wants (that he said Mexico would pay for); he's shut down the government once; he's helped the Saudis cover up the murder of an American citizen; he's been laughed off the stage at a UN summit; he's assassinated Iran's senior general which brought the world to the brink of war; he's sucked up shamelessly to dictators like Putin, Jong-Un, Bin-Salman while alienating traditional US allies like France, Germany and Canada; he's abused his presidential power to boost his own political fortunes; he's obstructed justice in the Mueller investigation and the impeachment enquiry; he's caused thousands of children to be interned and separated from their parents; he's denied climate change; he's demeaned the presidency with childish name-calling and insults; he's destroyed the credibility of institutions like the FBI and the DOJ and he's whined like a little bitch about witch-hunts and fake news whenever he's been criticized in the media . . . among other embarrassments, blunders and humiliations.
Baboon-ou, I know you're a very stupid and gullible fool but being a compulsive liar on top of that doesn't make a very attractive combination. I know you'll always be stupid but you don't have to always be a liar.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
16 Jan 2020, 10:59
#8
16 Jan 2020, 10:59#8

Hahaha. Geez, are you going to look like a fool if that essay turns into a real debate. 

Why don’t we start of by you substantiating and contextualising all of your assertions and then we take it from there. This could be a fun exercise. Come on, I dare you. Give it a go. 

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
16 Jan 2020, 11:23
#9
16 Jan 2020, 11:23#9
Ceradunce, we both know where that will lead to . . . you'll be blubbering things like "but what about naughty Hillary?" or "what about naughty Obama?"
I know how this one plays out.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
16 Jan 2020, 12:06
#10
16 Jan 2020, 12:06#10
Just as I thought. You are already trembling about the “contextualising” part. I would also guess that you are either too lazy to do the research to substantiate your claims or you know that you would end up with egg all over you. Which one is it?
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
16 Jan 2020, 12:23
#11
16 Jan 2020, 12:23#11

Rooibozo do you actually believe the BS you posts. I mean how delusional are you!

You sound like a parrot repeating the NYT or Wapo or CNN or MSNBC - who all have the same lies at the same time. 

Your sources rooibozo have only 8% of Americans believing them. Wise up you absurd creature.

Bye the way who created the person who created God. We know nothing can create anything. Bwahahahahaha. 

Trump tamed the Chinese pretty quickly. Ditto Mexico and Canada. Next its Europe. 

He got the demonrats supporting the world's leading terrorist. Hahahahaha. The loons on the left look more crazy each day??????

Rooibozo is out for the count! 

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
16 Jan 2020, 12:24
#12
16 Jan 2020, 12:24#12

Bye the way did you ever see clips of various jackasses mocking Trump's presidential run.

If not I can post a clip or two for you. It's hilarious to watch these clowns. 

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
16 Jan 2020, 12:27
#13
16 Jan 2020, 12:27#13

Windpomp I would say it's the EGG. Rooibozo is a EGG magnet! 

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
16 Jan 2020, 12:29
#14
16 Jan 2020, 12:29#14
"I would also guess that you are either too lazy to do the research to substantiate your claims or you know that you would end up with egg all over you. Which one is it?"
Listen, chump, as far as I'm concerned an intelligent person wouldn't need simple facts to be substantiated or put into context.
Now, a stupid person on the hand, should at the very least indicate which statement needs more substantion or context . . . assuming he's too helpless to use a search engine of course. L et me know if you need me to hold your hand, Ceradunce.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Jan 2020, 13:10
#15
16 Jan 2020, 13:10#15
Rooinek
Nobody wants the wall,  That is really funny,   They rather ants the unemployment and additional Government expenditure attached to uncontrolled Migrants costing anytime more that the all costs attached to wall construction,    
Most of the costs incurred  by Trump is a carryover of commitments of the brainless pkicies of Obama and can only be recovered and recovered over years to come.    Obama increased  by 100% in his eight years  from $11 trillion to $22 trillion.  That put a huge repayment in interest of redemption on the new administration,  
Obama totally neglected the expenditure on defense capabilities  became  totally deficient,   H was not averse to starting military usage in the ME and Trump inherited  totally deficient situation from Bush and Obama,    Renewal of planes and ships had too be built or the situation deteriorated badly,
Obama spent zilch on infrastructure upgrading  and the situation was getting desperate,   Trump has designated 4,5 Trillion to infrastructure development  and wanted  money allocated according to a sustainable program devised by experts,.    It did not include the rail line and infrastructure  to which hundreds of Billions was allocated  by Obama - so far there is nothing to show on that project,   Where the money went nobody seems to know,.  Anyway - Smuts sent the recommendations to  Congress and  a meeting was arranged to discuss the issue with Pelosi and  Schumer after the democrats  send a one page comments in return,   Before the meeting Pelosi had a media interview about the  totally flawed impeachment BS and Trump sent them packing and would not discuss the issue further with them.
You lap up the fake media stories like it is a religion and end up looking totally uninformed ad deluded on virtually everything you raise on site.   I will stay what I said elsewhere  -  Obama was a saboteur of the US economy in many fields,    He not only made trade deals that can best be described as totally against he interests of the USA, but in negotiations he rolled over and surrender to be figuratively f#cked by everybody he negotiated with,  A weakling and totally defective in economics,   One example  was NATO defense costs.  Every nation is supposed to contribute 3% of their budget to NATO expenditure n nobody in Europe did amd Trump threatened them that the USA will cut contribution to NATO and the EU turned tail and surrender,   For the first time since the 1990's the EU countires are spending the required percentage on NATO expenditure.
To sum up Obama spent $11 trillion on routine administrative expenditure ad there is nothing to show as examples of capital expenditure.   Trump is expending money on capital projects to benefit America for decades to come.   Huge difference and you would  have been wse to look at the situation carefully when it comes to the financial  situation.  
All of the other comments are frivolous and totally devoid of truth anyway,   Germany and France are economic decline the USA is not.   Trump calls a spade a spade and they may not like it - but there is nothing they can do noting about it.   He did not do what Obama did and that is getting screwed by everybody else on the world stage.
Are you in league with the Democrats still in mourning about the death of that terrorist Soleimani - the beloved of the mullahs in Iran and hated by the ordinary people?   An enemy of the USA involved in organizing and funding of the killing of US soldiers?    You predicted a war that never materialized,   The people of Iran is protesting widely and shouting in the streets- "Trump is not our enemy - death to the Ayatollah" and tearing down the pictures wherever they were pasted on the walls of buildings.   Like the leftist media in the USA ignore the continuing  protests in Iran so did you - not so?   They made utter fools of themselves in this case and so did you.               .                                           
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
16 Jan 2020, 13:14
#16
16 Jan 2020, 13:14#16
Not sure if your subsequent silence means that you're sitting there red-faced realizing what a dick you've made of yourself or if you're still typing up the inevitable self-righteous and indignant reply but let me give you a bit of context then, Ceradunce.
My first post on this thread was a response to Baboon-ou's lie that I allegedly ask people what Bozo has done for the USA. I refuted Baboon-ou's barefaced lie by giving several examples of things I've said about Bozo without ever having to ask anyone else what it is that he's done. 
Now, you might have an issue with accepting some of the facts that I put up in that response but that's another debate that's probably been done somewhere else, all I was doing was showing Baboon-ou up to be the stinking liar that he is.
Does that help you to put my reply into some kind of context, Ceradunce?
Now, the intelligent and mature response to that would be something along the lines of ". . . oh, I see now that you were reacting to Baboon-ou's lie and what you said - while I don't agree with all of it - certainly exposes Baboon-ou as a common liar."
Thereafter, if you wanted to take me up on any of my statements above at least have the manners and the courtesy to say what it is you're contradicting or why with maybe a link or two showing things like Bozo only added $3 trillion to the national debt . . . or proving that he did in fact get the Mexicans to put up the money for his wall . . . or a link to show that he didn't shut down the US government . . . or something to prove that he didn't know about Khashoggi's murder . . . but to just sit there and say I should substantiate and/or contextualize everything I said is not just bad manners, it's childish and even approaching infantile.
If you would like to debate or contradict any of those facts then do it like an adult, not a child. Okay?
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
16 Jan 2020, 13:22
#17
16 Jan 2020, 13:22#17
Ou Maaik, I think I've explained to you three or four times already how little I care for your opinion on political or historical matters yet you're still spending a lot of your time telling me what it is you think I need to know.
I've also told you on more than one occasion that I'm more than comfortable having an opinion that differs greatly from someone who worked for the Nat government during the apartheid years, then jumped ship and joined the ANC and who described Jacob Zuma as a gentleman and an all-round good guy. Based on that I' m actually very pleased that we differ so much on politics so there's really no need to keep typing up these long and repetitive diatribes that all say the same thing . . . "Democrats are the spawn of Satan and anyone who kan laaik to think different are a idiot what are deficient."
That is pretty much all you ever say or contribute so spare us all and save yourself a lot of time and effort. We've heard you. Not once but literally hundreds of times. I can't speak for anyone else but I can tell you that I've never been persuaded or had my mind changed by sheer repetition.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
16 Jan 2020, 17:22
#18
16 Jan 2020, 17:22#18

"Listen, chump, as far as I'm concerned an intelligent person wouldn't need simple facts to be substantiated or put into context."

OK, I guess you would agree that a judge is most probably an intelligent person. Consider this example. Ou Rooinek appears in court all bruised, as a material witness in an assault case against Ceradyne. 

The prosecutor calls Rooinek to the witness box and asks him what happened.

Rooinek: Your Honour, Ceradyne came up from behind and blixemed the living daylights out of me.

Judge to Ceradyne: How do you plead?

Ceradyne: Not guilty your Honour.

The Judge (without expecting the prosecutor to prove his case or allowing the defence to defend the charges): Well, I am an intelligent person and I don't need any of the simple facts to be substantiated. I find the defendant guilty as charged. Case dismissed.

"Now, a stupid person on the hand, should at the very least indicate which statement needs more substantion or context"

Now, an intelligent person would understand simple English. I said: ".....to substantiate your claims...". I did not exclude any of the long list of claims you listed. Simple. Unless, of course, I am not dealin g with an intelligent person. You tell me.

". . . assuming he's too helpless to use a search engine of course. Let me know if you need me to hold your hand, Ceradunce."

I guess we will find out if I know how to use a search engine as soon as you have substantiated and contextualised all of your claims. When I have to start debunking them, won't we?

I guess that puts the ball in your court to force me to start proving my ability to use a search engine.

— END OF THREAD —

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