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FORUM / MIKES GRIPES /  Russia must pay 'dearest price' for 'awful and illegal, unprovoked' invasion of Ukraine

Russia must pay 'dearest price' for 'awful and illegal, unprovoked' invasion of Ukraine

Started by Denny43 REPLIES2,921 VIEWS· 18 Mar 2022, 03:37
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DennyCaptain12,893 posts
18 Mar 2022, 03:37
#1
18 Mar 2022, 03:37#1

Prime Minister Scott Morrison has spoken to Ukraine’s Prime Minister and President, saying they were “deeply grateful” for the support Australia has provided amid the Russian invasion.

Mr Morrison said he will have a “bit more to say” in the next few days on additional support to be provided by the Australian government to Ukraine.

“The people of Ukraine have shown, and their government and their leadership and President Zelensky have shown enormous grit and courage, and they're an inspiration, and this is the second conversation I've had with the Prime Minister,” he said.

“This is just an awful and illegal, unprovoked invasion by Russia into the Ukraine and we must ensure that Russia pays the dearest price for doing this.

“Not just to ensure justice for the Ukrainian people, but to ward off any others who want to go down that autocratic path and seek to threaten and coerce their neighbours.”

*********************************

Oz pointing the compass in the right direction.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
18 Mar 2022, 08:09
#2
18 Mar 2022, 08:09#2
Sorry for the whataboutism..
"Australia joined a US-led coalition in its 2003 Iraq invasion, widely viewed as illegal under international law. Declassified documents reveal that the decision to go to war was taken primarily with a view to enhancing its alliance with the United States."
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
18 Mar 2022, 08:10
#3
18 Mar 2022, 08:10#3

 

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
18 Mar 2022, 08:13
#4
18 Mar 2022, 08:13#4

Still a good thing for Australia to be supporting the sovereignty of another country...

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
18 Mar 2022, 08:16
#5
18 Mar 2022, 08:16#5

“Not just to ensure justice for the Ukrainian people, but to ward off any others who want to go down that autocratic path and seek to threaten and coerce their neighbours.”

This is a slippery slope...the world can't let Russia get away with this...who's next? Taiwan? South Korea? Japan?

DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
18 Mar 2022, 08:58
#6
18 Mar 2022, 08:58#6

Australia has fought alongside of the USA in every war outside of America.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
18 Mar 2022, 18:06
#7
18 Mar 2022, 18:06#7

Too much war we have...we're supposed to be civilised...

AJ
AJHPro3,183 posts
19 Mar 2022, 18:00
#8
19 Mar 2022, 18:00#8

No sense in any war, only death, destruction and politicians with bruised ego's and money.


Shameful.

SE
SebPro2,680 posts
25 Mar 2022, 14:42
#10
25 Mar 2022, 14:42#10

A very well put together documentary, professionally done.






BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
25 Mar 2022, 15:34
#12
25 Mar 2022, 15:34#12

Heck the twits here must be amongst the most ignorant buffoons possible. 

Unprovoked attack the parrot dense Denise says without a thought. 

Assurances were given by both the USA and EU that Natio would not expand eastwards. At the time NATO was in 17 countries and now is 30.

The USA deposed a duly elected pro Russian President and installed a Globalist puppet. 

The Zelensky crowd have been waging a genocide on the Russians in the two eastern provinces Donetsk and Lugansk. 14,000 killed. 

The US elites have been plundering Ukraine which is the 4th most corrupt nation on earth. 

Now after prior denials we find there are USA funded bio weapons in Ukraine which have dangerous pathogens. 

Now Russia is saying that Soros, Hunter Biden and US govt funded these labs. 

By the way all hell is breaking out about the Hunter Biden laptop. Matters have escalated as almost 500 gigs of deleted emails, letters pictures and videos have been recovered and to save as much credibility as possible the Marxist NYT admitted after all this time the laptop is genuine. Doubtless you recall how these liars were all saying it was Russian disinformation. But the NYT is where some still get their information. How incredibly dumb. 

Joe Biden is fully implicated. As are the sons of Kerry, Pelosi and of course the Clintons. 

Meanwhile Russia is insisting on payment for it oil and gas in Roubles. This has made the Rouble even stronger as it is backed by commodities. The Russian Stock exchange is up. 

Meanwhile it's becoming evident that the USA is staring down the barrel of a gun as the mighty dollar is about to be toppled with disastrous economic consequences for the USA. 

That gentleman and dense is probably what the Ukraine debacle us all about, the toppling of the dollar and an attempt at regime change. Certainly the USA has no dog in this fight. The departure of the two provinces means nothing to the USA. Just like the open southern border and the mass invasion of the USA means nothing to Biden and his Globalist handlers. 

The attempt at regime change will fail as well. 

Biden and the Demonrats continue to plummet in the polls and Trump has just launched a major lawsuit against Crooked Hillary, Comey and many others etc etc. 

Americans according to the polls are dead set against a war and the longer the US govt and the EU prolong this the more the deaths etc. 

Poor Zelensky whines everyday about how promises to him have been broken. No EU or NATO membership. No boots on ground. But never mind he has a 40 million dollars mansion in Florida and lots of money. He must just make sure he leaves after as much carnage as possible and before the Russians can catch this vile creature. Yes much of Zekenky's past is coming out and doubtless you have heard how he has banned ALL opposition parties and shit down the Ukrainian  Media. In his black right and high heels this pettyTyrant is rooitwits type for sure - although I concede it should be pink tights! 

Could post a massive amount of material here each day which escapes you. Election fraud keeps coming out and the battle to decertify rages as progress is made. The Covid Hoax continues to be exposed as is the deadly nature of the jabs. The stats are terrible for the vaccinated. 

Some oaks here know they are getting censored news but still stick with the Globalist propaganda machines. Hence their appalling and deadly ignorance. 

I hope some know what is happening in the UK regarding didgital banking. Very ominous. 

Dense oaks like dense Denise should really just pipe down. The oak is a complete nutjob. Morrison is another Globalist just like that horse woman Arderne. Both belong to the WEF. 

I must find some time to post news as it's clear some here are totally lost without me. Bwahahahahaha. 



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Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
25 Mar 2022, 15:49
#13
25 Mar 2022, 15:49#13

Dense Denise's new hero wants a full blow war in Ukraine and never mind a world War.

Accept the very reasonable Russian terms Zelensky. It could save old dense from being vaporized!  Klaus Schwab won't like that as useless eaters like dense must be eliminated even as they cheer Schwab on.



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SebPro2,680 posts
25 Mar 2022, 17:14
#14
25 Mar 2022, 17:14#14

Tucker Carlson

We should be worried, correction very worried about this...

https://youtu.be/oifqp1bJp8Y

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
25 Mar 2022, 20:49
#16
25 Mar 2022, 20:49#16

People are dying by the hundreds, injured by the thousands…..displaced by the millions. All because one man decided it’s okay. No different to the Nazi invasion of the Sudetenland that our fathers fought to stop.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 Mar 2022, 21:17
#17
25 Mar 2022, 21:17#17

Mozart are you in favor of the fact that 14 000  Russian speaking  people were killed by rogue element in the Ukraine army since 2015?    And those attacks were intensified in 2022 and about 2 million women and children were for their safety evacuated and send to Russia. - basically from Eastern Ukraine.    And that was before the Russian  invasion.     

I get the message though -  if the lefrists don't like people  their opponents are given a free hand to murder and slaughter  innocent people.     

SE
SebPro2,680 posts
25 Mar 2022, 23:41
#18
25 Mar 2022, 23:41#18

This war is very personal as it involves my relatives and friends.

Russians hate war and there is not a country that has paid so dearly in war...the Russians lost 20 million military in WW2, compare that to Britons, Americans and the rest.

Ja Beeno, good one you are spot on. Russia did NOT, in the RIGHT narrative and context INVADE Ukraine but entered it on a military OPERATION to end the continuous murder and genocide of it's people residing in the Ukraine which had being going on for 8 years...that's a fact, there was a civil war going on since the Maidan Revolution coup d'etat 8 years ago. On top of that Security Threat Issues were ignored and agreements drawn up were constantly reneged.

Nobody likes war and yes it's very cruel but tough measures are called for when continuous atrocities had being going on for this long period and would have continued non-stop.Very few, if any in the West noticed these things, it's not new, it started in 2015.

Now the wokes and libtards are hysterically screaming blue murder and hate speech and looking for scapegoats and blame the wrong people....bloody hypocrites of the worst kind.

Yes, indeed just wait and see, it all will come out eventually. They are lying to you. The coverage is one of the weakest ever seen. Very few reporters are on front lines.

The Russian soldier statistics in even BBC, invented dishonestly are complete lies, nearly 1/3 of Ukraine are encircled by them. Civilians are being used as human shields by the Azov and extremist sectors. This element too, has in some sectors, ie Mariupol prevented civilians from evacuating.





MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Mar 2022, 04:19
#19
26 Mar 2022, 04:19#19

Sorry chaps this Ukraine is threatening Russia thing is a fiction:


FACT:  There are no credible reports of any ethnic Russians or Russian speakers being under threat from the Ukrainian government.  There are, however, credible reports that in Russia-occupied Crimea and in the Donbas, Ukrainians face suppression of their culture and national identity and live in an environment of severe repression and fear.  In Crimea, Russia forces Ukrainians to assume Russian citizenship or lose their property, their access to healthcare, and their jobs.  Those who peacefully express opposition to Russia’s occupation or control face imprisonment on baseless grounds, police raids on their homes, officially sanctioned discrimination, and in some cases torture and other abuses.  Religious and ethnic minorities are investigated and prosecuted as “extremists” and “terrorists.”

FICTION:  NATO has plotted against Russia since the end of the Cold War, encircled Russia with forces, broken supposed promises not to enlarge, and threatened Russia’s security with the prospect of Ukrainian membership in the Alliance .[vi]

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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Mar 2022, 07:02
#20
26 Mar 2022, 07:02#20

Mozart

The facts are that there is no credible reports that the minority Ukrainians (5% of the total population) in the Crimea  faced any oppression.    There were never any credible reports it happened.   If there was that would have been all over the media - but there were none until the war story started anyway,

So a decision to ban Russian from being taught in schools by the present Ukraine Parliament and the arrest of Opposition members of Parliament  in the Ukraine before the Invasion because they are ethnic Russians are  not reported in the US media - so it did not happen.   That is why the present situation is a farce.   

Lets look at the internal political issues  in the USA to start with - the Democrats have lied for 5 years about  the Russian Hoaxes involving Trump and Putin  and that is slowly being exposed  -  you admitted that is true  - but an anti-Russian hysteria was caused and that is continuing after the disasters caused by the Biden Administration.   So now the increase in inflation caused by Biden is  blamed on the Russian Invasion of Ukraine,   

It would not by some distance be the first time that the  USA  got involved in wars since WW2 because of internal political problems faced by the US Government - two examples are the Vietnam and Iraq wars.    Whenever there were and are internal political problems in the USA - wars are lightning conductors to draw people's attention away from the local political mess.   The Biden Administration through incompetence cause major inflation in the USA and they are now blaming Russia for their problems.

You may believe otherwise - but the BRICS and 30 other countries who have opposed or abstained from voting on the UN  resolution on the Russian invasion have their own spy services and they believe the present scenario  -

*   have been caused by internal ethnic problems in Ukraine ; and

*   was engineered by the USA Biden administration.   

They claimed there were indeed internal problems in Ukraine that should  have been resolved through negotiations and those problems are swept under the carpet by the   media.    Whenever anybody question the US Government version they are being blamed for being pro-Russian in the media.   So tell me why is Turkey involved  in the latest efforts to find a solution to the  internal Ukraine problems and not the USA?   There are virtually no newspaper reports  in the US media about those negotiations - so that is not happening?      

However,  why are the proven biolabs story being ignored - they were built with funds provided by the  USA and operated by the Ukrainians  under US Guidance.   The existence of one such lab in Odessa was admitted in the Senate by Nudland in evidence under oath  and subsequently denied by the Biden Administration.    Now the next story is out - it any of the products from those labs are used by radical elements in Ukraine - Russia would be blamed for chemical and biological warfare as already alleged by Biden officials. 

I am opposed to any wars - but even extreme liberals like Jimmy Dore and a host of other similar programs with   millions of supporters in the USA are questioning the present scenario.  About two weeks ago Jimmy Dore claimed that the problem relates to evidence supported by both parties that the Biden Administration is hoping that the Ukraine situation could be used to replace European usage of Russian gas and replace it with the USA gas  and yesterday voila it is confirmed.   

I do not trust the present US Administration and they are really the cause of  both international instability and internal chaos in the USA and especially  the leftist media are backing them up.               

.   

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SebPro2,680 posts
26 Mar 2022, 11:21
#21
26 Mar 2022, 11:21#21

Well Moz if you believe that so be it...we will all find out in the end. Lies upon lies and then more lies, each one to cover up the last.

I've lost respect for even Winston Churchill, Roosevelt (FDR) and a few others that I used to admire in ignorance of what I later discovered. "Operation Unthinkable" and "Operation Dropshot" were the most treacherous and cowardly backstabbing atrocities ever conceived. Fortunately they were never put into practice, the latter thanks to JFK who was horrified when told about the scheme. I never really liked JFK but when I learnt that he tras hed even the thought, showed he had some goodness...the rest are a mixture of heartless deceivers.

Talk about the hypocrites trying to remove the splinter in their "brothers" eye when they cannot see at all because the logs in their own eyes.

How does anybody ever have the audacity to believe and expect Russia to trust and believe in the West's integrity, which they clearly have not, from these 2 inhumane plans. On top of that there's backstabbing and treachery in wars, We don't have to go further in other dastardly military actions performed in recent history.

Slava Russia.

https://youtu.be/-Iu0pvZP-dM

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
26 Mar 2022, 12:36
#22
26 Mar 2022, 12:36#22

I'm curious to know how Ukraine is supposed to be committing genocide in territories it doesn't control?

All of this crap about NATO expansion, the one sided trawling of history to paint Russia as eternal victims, genocide in the Donbass, the incredibly preposterous claim of drug addled Neo-Nazi's running Ukraine and the somehow yet even more preposterous claims that Ukraine is developing nuclear or biological weapons is all just diversion, lies and propaganda coming from the Kremlin. 

Putin's invasion is exactly one thing, a naked land grab. To Putin Ukraine must either become part of Russia once more or become a vassal state that's run by a staunchly pro Kremlin government.

Putin's made an enormous blunder though. By his actions he's done more to unite and reinvigorate his geopolitical opponents in the west than they managed amongst themselves in decades of political negotiation, while long term effectively rendering Russia a client state of China. Though I imagine Xi is facepalming at the Russian military performance in Ukraine and thinking did he just get the modern day equivalent of Fascist Italy in terms of a military ally. 


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SebPro2,680 posts
26 Mar 2022, 13:25
#23
26 Mar 2022, 13:25#23

I've had a guts full of Western hypocrisy and them trying to lord it over another country. Russian people don't want the West's so-called democracy...they see how nauseating it is. Russians despise deceit, cowardice and double standards.

They chose Putin...popularity ratings clearly show by bigger margins than most chosen leaders...most of them like to be ruled by lion and not 200 rats. They lived under collective rule and don't want that back. Who the hell do you think you are?, and who are you who lives in Ireland to demand your will and dislike for other peoples choice?. That's a bloody cheek!. They look at the Wests decaying morals and degenerate life styles and lack of cultural values. It's disgusting to them.

OK, Russia, go to Mexico or any other Central American country and set divisions of people, brother against brother by stirring up the pot  and erect nuclear missile launchers and start chemical and bio labs there, and ignore Munroe (doctrine) agreement made in 1823, just as West & NATO

has done to Minsk agreements made a few years ago.

Don't worry Russia, it is not unfair...what's good for the goose is also good for the gander.

Actually why not. But Russians have a sense of fairness, not like like some miserable wokes and libtards in the west. They are like a bunch of spiteful schoolgirls who squeal and gang up against a loner  just because she is different, thinks differently and doesn't go with the flow.

Groupies, wokes and libtards are just like sheep bleating. Expect to hear them continue...LOL

Slava Russia.





SH
sharkbokCaptain23,202 posts
26 Mar 2022, 15:44
#24
26 Mar 2022, 15:44#24

All societies have democratic and authoritarian people. All people are to some degree both Democratic and Authoritarian in their ideology and personality.   

Democratic institutions bring out the Democratic nature within people, and vice versa with authoritarian political structures.

From the ancient Greeks and Romans to modern-day society, Democracy has always beaten authoritarianism. 

 To be a Westerner is to be Democratic. This is why the West are the world power. 

People in the West that are struggling with the 21st century, are often religious - and therefore more authoritarian

The Woke West has flexed its muscles and if one boot crosses NATO soil, we are coming for Putin. 


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Mar 2022, 16:13
#25
26 Mar 2022, 16:13#25

What is Democracy according to you?   Is it not Government by the people through elected as representatives, for the people and accountable to the people?

The problem is that there are certain norms included - the most important being freedom of speech by people.    It is that element that is under attack by the media at present.    If you express any opinion that opposes the group thinking of particularly the western countries you are banned and cannot express that opinion  - especially since they class it as "conspiracy theories" and then has the freedom to express and try to indoctrinate their own conspiracy theories on the public.

There are literally hundreds of cases where the media are lying to the public and effectively is not reporting news - but became  propaganda vehicles  that is oppressing freedom of speech and try to brainwash people to eliminate it.

The above is generally the case in Western media and the result is totally opposed to the concept of freedom of speech.   It includes censoring of info that may or may not be provided to the public.   When this is done in collaboration with the Government it destroys DEMOCRACY.  AND BECOME DICTATORIAL.    The latter is where we are at present and the threat to Democracy comes from the left who are trying to control thinking of people through PROPAGANDA.    .

    

 .     

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
26 Mar 2022, 16:39
#26
26 Mar 2022, 16:39#26

I've had a guts full of Western hypocrisy and them trying to lord it over another country.

Western hypocrisy doesn't excuse Russian aggression.

Russian people don't want the West's so-called democracy...they see how nauseating it is. Russians despise deceit, cowardice and double standards.

Most Russian's wouldn't know what Western democracy really is, as most Russians get presented a distorted view of it by the Kremlin's propaganda machine.

They chose Putin...popularity ratings clearly show by bigger margins than most chosen leaders...most of them like to be ruled by lion and not 200 rats.

It's true that they choose him but the question is would they choose him in a genuinely free democracy where anyone who is potential a serious political rival isn't branded an enemy agent by the state propaganda machine and end up in prison and there was an actual a free media to hold the government to account, not a state where journalists critical of the regime end up murdered. With the authoritarian tools that are available to Putin, its little surprise he's been able to keep power so long.

They lived under collective rule and don't want that back.

 I feel genuinely sorry for the Russian people. They have never really known freedom.

Who the hell do you think you are?, and who are you who lives in Ireland to demand your will and dislike for other peoples choice?.

I'm just me calling things as I see them. Am I not entitled to an opinion?...well maybe I wouldn't be in Russia but I live in the West so yeah I'm entitled too have one. I'm also not demanding anything, I'm just calling bullshit when I see it. As for disliking for other peoples choices, yeah I'm allowed too...but on that topic, look what you said next.

That's a bloody cheek!. They look at the Wests decaying morals and degenerate life styles and lack of cultural values. It's disgusting to them

Ah the hypocrisy.  So its okay for Russians to dislike the Wests morals and call the wests life style degenerate and disgusting? How morally superior the Russian's are proving to be with their medieval siege warfare tactics, because its so moral to surround cities full of civilians and bombard them with artillery and missiles, cut off their water and food supplies and attempt to starve them into submission. Its okay to blow up entire families because you know it teaches the woke liberals a lesson or something? 

OK, Russia, go to Mexico or any other Central American country and set divisions of people, brother against brother by stirring up the pot  and erect nuclear missile launchers and start chemical and bio labs there, and ignore Munroe (doctrine) agreement made in 1823, just as West & NATO has done to Minsk agreements made a few years ago.

Except the West are not the ones causing the division or setting brother against brother, that would be Russia. As for nuclear missiles, its Russia with the largest nuclear arsenal in the world and none of the states that joined NATO after the collapse of the Soviet Union have nuclear weapons situated within them. NATO is not a threat to Russia, it primarily a defensive alliance. It may well have actually disbanded by now had Russia actually democratized after the dissolution of the Soviet Union and not transferred into an aggressive Mafia state.

As for the Minsk agreement, here is a better agreement, how about Russia gets the fuck out of Ukraine.

Don't worry Russia, it is not unfair...what's good for the goose is also good for the gander.

Actually why not. But Russians have a sense of fairness, not like like some miserable wokes and libtards in the west. They are like a bunch of spiteful schoolgirls who squeal and gang up against a loner  just because she is different, thinks differently and doesn't go with the flow.

Groupies, wokes and libtards are just like sheep bleating. Expect to hear them continue...LOL

LOL indeed, what absolute verbal diarrhoea.


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Mar 2022, 17:41
#27
26 Mar 2022, 17:41#27

Stav

Just a question - have you ever been to Russia and communicated with ordinary Russian people?    

SE
SebPro2,680 posts
26 Mar 2022, 18:12
#28
26 Mar 2022, 18:12#28

Stav you are missing the point completely. It's their country and nobody has any right to tell them what to do.What a damn cheek to even suggest that.

It's simply none of any body's  bloody business and quite rightly so.

They don't want our crappy way of living and will never be part of Globalism, period.

I think their tolerance has been amazing. But if the west continues to stick their unsavoury snouts in they will get more than a bloody nose.

Live and let live. We are not God.


No Mike, he obviously has not. I will put my life on that one.


SH
sharkbokCaptain23,202 posts
26 Mar 2022, 19:03
#29
26 Mar 2022, 19:03#29

If the Russian majority supports Putin, and his murderous war, then we need to stop letting Russians into Western countries. We have already removed the Oligarchs, but why stop there? 

If Russians and their sympathisers don't like the West, they need to be thrown out of these countries. Let them go and live in Russia with Putin. 
Russia is mostly Christian, so the far right wing degenerates in the West support him. (Fortunately it is a minority). 

In response to Putin quoting her on cancel culture, Ms JK Rowling denounced the invasion of Ukraine in which she said Russia was "slaughtering civilians".

Rowling has been criticised for her views on transgender issues.

"Critiques of Western cancel culture are possibly not best made by those currently slaughtering civilians for the crime of resistance, or who jail and poison their critics," the Harry Potter author wrote on Twitter.

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
26 Mar 2022, 19:41
#30
26 Mar 2022, 19:41#30

Stav you are missing the point completely. It's their country and nobody has any right to tell them what to do.What a damn cheek to even suggest that.

I think you are missing the far more pertinent point, Ukraine is a sovereign country and they have the right not to be invaded on a pack of lies sprouted from the mind of a despot. 

It's simply none of any body's  bloody business and quite rightly so.

Ukraine is none of Russia's business.

They don't want our crappy way of living and will never be part of Globalism, period.

Good luck with that. Isolation from the rest of the world is a proven and fantastic way for a nation to achieve prosperity, just look at North Korea...oh wait!

I think their tolerance has been amazing. But if the west continues to stick their unsavoury snouts in they will get more than a bloody nose.

Aye an amazing tolerance in copying with something that exists only in its leadership's head. You know honestly the West actually doesn't think that much about Russia at all, other than when it assassinates people in Western countries. As for a bloody nose, like the Ukrainian's are giving the Russians right now? The Russian bear is looking rather geriatric at the moment.

Live and let live. We are not God.

Indeed, live and let live, now fuck off out of Ukraine Russia.

No Mike, he obviously has not. I will put my life on that one.

Never been to Russia, but I have two friends, one is Russian, the other is actually from the Donbass. But its not relevant to this discussion. 

SE
SebPro2,680 posts
26 Mar 2022, 20:03
#31
26 Mar 2022, 20:03#31

We will never agree, because of different narrat ives, lets just accept that, don't worry we'll soon see who is lying...in the end it all comes out.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Mar 2022, 22:26
#32
26 Mar 2022, 22:26#32

Simple question ….in a healthy society, how could a man who had nothing when he became President. Who has not so much as sold a loaf of bread….be generally acknowledged as one of the richest men in the world. How did he do it? The ANC’s and Biden’s Chinese paychecks pale in comparison. And those are deplored by the same posters who are defending Putin.


I’m very much for the Russian people. I think the West has been paranoid about Russia instead of welcoming them into the community of Nations after the big capitulation. I even concede that dangling Ukraine NATO membership was irresponsible.

But slice it anyway you like….the right response was not to destroy a country. This is a huge mistake which has only resulted in misery for all.

SH
sharkbokCaptain23,202 posts
26 Mar 2022, 22:42
#33
26 Mar 2022, 22:42#33

I don't like anyone who supports Putin.
So, if 70% of Russians support Putin's war, I hate 70% of Russians.

However, I suspect that Putin manipulates approval ratings, so this is not an accurate reflection of his popularity. (in addition to cheating in elections and killing the opposition etc). 

SE
SebPro2,680 posts
26 Mar 2022, 23:47
#34
26 Mar 2022, 23:47#34

It seems that Nato and USA are the good boys and Russia is bad.

These days it seems that evil has become good and good is now evil...well that might sound a little strong for some who indeed cannot tell the difference.

It looks like it., certainly it's hypocrisy of the worst kind or is it that memories have become conveniently short lived.


https://youtu.be/MvrbSpbb4f4

 

https://youtu.be/UaqY12VHFv4

 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Mar 2022, 00:45
#35
27 Mar 2022, 00:45#35

I am not amazed at all by the comments of SB.  If you do not agree with his BS dictatorial actions is appropriate..   And he is one who preach with us about Demcoracy.   By the way Ukraine is not a democratic country,   is has been turned into a dictatorship by its present President,      

CR
CrusadersfanPro3,099 posts
27 Mar 2022, 01:28
#36
27 Mar 2022, 01:28#36

Russia has stepped back to the days of Stalin, the purges have started and the slaves will turn a blind eye until they themselves find them in a Gulag in Siberia.

Good luck to your wife's family they will need it if they get on the wrong side of Putin's regime.

But then that will be the time you will be asking NATO to step in won't it.


CR
CrusadersfanPro3,099 posts
27 Mar 2022, 01:33
#37
27 Mar 2022, 01:33#37
But Mike you're fine with Putin's dictatorship so how do you decide which dictatorship is good and which is not?
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
27 Mar 2022, 01:42
#38
27 Mar 2022, 01:42#38

No you can’t judge people by their political views. Most of Germany was for Hitler. Most of the grandkids of those Germans are now as liberal as the Swedes. Same genetics, different times, different education.

Hard as it may be at times, the bedrock principles always hold true. Free speech, ability to defend yourself, rewards for creating a more prosperous society, charity to those who need it, self reliance.

Drift away as the West has  done in the false view that all global actors are inherently good and you will face a crisis. Your mothers told you all this and it’s still true today.

Putin has destroyed himself …it’s just a matter of time before the consequences emerge.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Mar 2022, 04:41
#39
27 Mar 2022, 04:41#39

Crusaderfan

Fact is can a country be a dictatorship where over 50% of the voters voted for  opposition parties in the Parliamentary elections?    Putin himself got a higher percentage vote than his Party got in the Parliamentary election - but that  still does not make him a dictator.

The only reason why Putin's Party  got a majority in the Duma is because of splitting of opposition votes and  the first passed the post system applies.   

Stalin had slave camps in the Gulag Archipello and there is nothing like that now in Russia.  Under Lenin and Stalin an estimated 52 million people were murdered by the State - is that still the case?

By the way at this stage  the USA are holding more political prisoners in jail without trial than Russia is.       

Please if you want make claims  on site do not trust the fake media and think for yourself by checking facts.  I do not think  Putin is an angel - he has extremely serious deficiencies - but he cannot be compared to Stalin and Lenin.   

       

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Mar 2022, 05:31
#40
27 Mar 2022, 05:31#40

Stav

I have known some Russians whose parents left Russia in 1917 and 1918 and they were highly sophisticated  and educated people.  One of them was a baroness who married  a bloke by the name of Foxcroft  -  Baroness Elizivata Foxcroft.  She was a Professor of Russian in the University of South Africa and since the departure of  Stalin was invited  regularly to Russia to conferences dealing with  the history of development of Russian as a language - a  world expert on that count.

Aside from that I have met many other people that can be regarded as very friendly people.   That was also what I found when I went to Russia on holiday.   Russians are a different breed of people - they are proud of the history and culture of the Russians - irrespective of whether the Tzars or the Communists were the rulers,   They have a strong believe in value systems and unlike the woke culture destroying western civilization - they believe in cultural and religion development.   You may not like the latter part - but that is factual.

Ordinary Russians suffered under the Communist Governments.    While wandering around in Moscow I entered the Kremlin - it is open to the public and you can go wherever you like.- and there was a statue of Lenin in the gardens within the Kremlin.  I asked some Russians about the statue - when many of the worst Communist Party leadership statues were destroyed - and the response was that Lenin  was part of the history of  Russia.

I find the Russians I met in Russia being very friendly people with a huge difference in outlook on life from what at present is the case of history and culture destruction and the woke culture developed in the western countries.     This match the  historic fact that many empires and countries who were at a time through thousands of years being the strongest in the world have self-destructed largely due to destruction of morals and culture.    You can go through to ancient China, the Sumerian and Persian kingdoms, Greeks (under Alexander the Great), Egyptian, the Roman Empire and more recently the western countries - basically the USA  and the  UK.   What is the case at present is that the Western Culture is being destroyed  and in the process democracy is being destroyed as well.    What many of the western leaders now want is a World Government that will destroy whatever is left of Democracy.     

                           

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