Support for the war in Ukraine collapsing

This from Gallup:

LONDON — Most Ukrainians now favor ending the war with Russia through negotiations, as support for fighting until victory has dropped sharply since the early days of the conflict. Although their hopes for joining NATO and the European Union have faded and approval of U.S. leadership has plummeted, Ukrainians still see the EU, U.K. and U.S. as key to ending the war. Yet, most doubt that will happen anytime soon.

More than three years into the war, Ukrainians’ support for continuing to fight until victory has hit a new low. In Gallup’s most recent poll of Ukraine — conducted in early July — 69% say they favor a negotiated end to the war as soon as possible, compared with 24% who support continuing to fight until victory.

This marks a nearly complete reversal from public opinion in 2022, when 73% favored Ukraine fighting until victory and 22% preferred that Ukraine seek a negotiated end as soon as possible.

……….

This was always a possibility as I have argued in the past. It was essential for Ukraine to fight at the outset, but also critical to reach a settlement. Given the Russian leadership and mentality, they weren’t going to give up.

I think the euphoria about the initial Russian failures clouded the fundamentals and Zelensky’s belligerence has been an issue. Europe’s fake optimism hasn’t helped. So the best moment may have passed. But there is a good chance it can still be ended with honor and an independent Ukraine. Once this started it wasn’t going to end without a lot of pain. Stopping the killing is more important than hanging on for a ‘fair’ deal. The longer this goes on the less fair the deal will become.

Meanwhile in another poll released last Thursday show's the following

As the poll shows, 76% of Ukrainians categorically reject the idea of a "peace plan" on Russian terms, as it is the aggressor state. At the same time, 17% may agree to Russia's demands. Ukrainians consider a joint peace plan by Europe and Ukraine to be the most acceptable.

Source: poll by the Kyiv International Institute of Sociology (KIIS)

Details: In all regions, the population categorically opposes Russia's demands, and only a small portion is willing to accept them in order to achieve peace.

In addition, 39% of respondents would accept the conditional plan proposed by the United States, up from 29% in May (meanwhile, as before, most respondents emphasise that this is a tough decision for them). Meanwhile, for the majority of Ukrainians – 49% – the plan is categorically unacceptable (62% in May).

A joint plan by Europe and Ukraine is acceptable to 54% (51% in May) and categorically unacceptable to 30% (35% in May).

Sociologists outlined three conditional plans, which they presented to respondents during the survey:

Russia's conditional plan stipulates that Ukraine must significantly reduce its forces and limit its armaments; it must also permanently renounce NATO membership. The cities of Kherson, Zaporizhzhia, and the entire territory of Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson oblasts would also come under Russian control. Ukraine would officially recognise all occupied territories as part of Russia and renounce them forever. The US and Europe would lift all sanctions against Russia, but Ukraine would move towards EU membership.

According to the conditional plan of the United States, a group of European states, but without the United States, will provide Ukraine with security guarantees; Russia will retain control over the occupied territories; the United States will officially recognise Crimea as part of Russia; Ukraine will move towards EU membership; and the United States and Europe will lift all sanctions against Russia.

As for the conditional plan of Europe and Ukraine, Ukraine receives reliable security guarantees from Europe and the US; Russia retains control over the occupied territories, but Ukraine and the world do not officially recognise this; Ukraine moves towards EU membership; after establishing a stable peace, the US gradually softens its sanctions against Russia.

Zelensky’s belligerence has been an issue

Zelenksy has never been belligerent, there is a difference between wanting to fight and being willing to fight when their is no other choice. Time and time again he's been willing to negotiate in good peace, its Putin that's the the issue and Trump's blindness too it.

Stopping the killing is more important than hanging on for a ‘fair’ deal. The longer this goes on the less fair the deal will become.

The only way to end the war right now is to accept Russia's present terms. These terms would guarantee the end of Ukraine as a sovereign state. Your advocating for surrender, not peace.

Well these two surveys have different methodologies, different surveying methods, different coverage and ask different questions. It’s going to be hard to figure out who is right. But we can track opinions over time:

Both surveys show declining commitment to the war. The latest KIIS poll released last Thursday shows this:

Clearly some movement towards settlement since the May survey.

Gallup started with in 2022 with 74% arguing fighting should continue until victory. That number has dropped period after period and is now at 24%. A massive decline in the appetite for war when measured in a consistent way. You can pick who you believe but Gallup has no reason to provide incorrect information,

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I’ll skip over Zelensky never being belligerent….sitting in the Oval Office in fatigues obviously was not planned or intended to convey anything.

As for the end of Ukraine as a sovereign state, that’s far more likely to happen if the fighting continues.

Well these two surveys have different methodologies, different surveying methods, different coverage and ask different questions. It’s going to be hard to figure out who is right. But we can track opinions over time:

They both can be right because they are not mutually exclusive. Absolutely Ukrainian's above everyone else want the war to end but it hast to be on right terms. And it's not about fairness or perfect terms, Ukraine know the terms won't be fair, their not expecting to get everything back, they have acknowledged that the presently occupied territories will remain in Russian hands for the foreseeable future to say nothing about all the children Russia abducted. But the present terms the Russian's are offering are as I said tantamount to surrender.

They want Ukraine to disarm and drastically reduce its military to a fraction of its present size, they want no arms supplies to be sent to Ukraine after the size fire and they want Ukraine to hand over their strongest and best defensive line that they spent over 10 years building up that military analysts are saying would take Russia several years to take?

Like can you honestly expect Ukraine to take such a deal in exchange for what...ceasefire negotiations cause that's all Russia is presently offering?

As for the end of Ukraine as a sovereign state, that’s far more likely to happen if the fighting continues.

Russia can't conquer Ukraine unless it gets the west to abandon it.

"Zelenksy has never been belligerent, there is a difference between wanting to fight and being willing to fight when their is no other choice. Time and time again he's been willing to negotiate in good peace, its Putin that's the the issue and Trump's blindness too it."

Horse manure!...he shits on his most valuable allies...he's too ideologised to be an objective leader...U-Wardwarf won't ever sign a compromised peace deal...other R-War-dwarf knows this, that's why he's willing to travel to Alaska.

Horse manure!...he shits on his most valuable allies...he's too ideologised to br a objective leader...

He did not such thing, yes he's ruffled some diplomatic feathers from time to time when he reminds the western world bluntly that as it debates and delays sending assistance Ukrainian's are dying because of those delays. Pretty much all the world leaders understand where that's coming from and they all respect him. Only one leader and his little minion have gone out of their way too take offense and we know who that is. As for shitting on valuable allies...cough 'tariffs' cough.

Your once again unable to articulate why you dislike Zelensky.

Wardwarf won't ever sign a compromised peace deal...the other war-dwarf knows this, that's why he's willing to travel to Alaska.

Zelensky won't sign a deal that will be the end of his country. Most likely nothing will come out of this summit, Putin will insist on his present demands, Trump will likely try to pressure Zelensky into accepting them but Zelensky won't and Trump will go back to blaming him. The war will go on.

"Your once again unable to articulate why you dislike Zelensky."

I don't like him because he's a little arrogant prick...same as any one of your pick Aussie scrummies of the last 20 years...

Regardless of where things are now, with more deaths and more loss of territory this war isn’t going to get any more acceptable. Eventually there will be a ‘surrender’ and it won’t be any better than you can get today. That’s unfair, a bitter pill for these courageous people. But that’s reality.

The West’s notion of humiliating Putin hasn’t worked, the Russian people aren’t buying it….he has a power base, much like Trump has a power base. Like it or not, with a power base and nukes we have to deal with Putin. The West doesn’t have the resolve to escalate this conflict, rightfully in my mind because the dangers involved and the mentality that’s driving it.

Regardless of where things are now, with more deaths and more loss of territory this war isn’t going to get any more acceptable. Eventually there will be a ‘surrender’ and it won’t be any better than you can get today. That’s unfair, a bitter pill for these courageous people. But that’s reality.

I'd said ah yes the classic myth of Russian invincibility, but really what your doing is covering for Trump here. No matter what type of deal he's going try to force down Ukraine's throat your going try to justify by claiming it's the best Ukraine can get.

The West’s notion of humiliating Putin hasn’t worked, the Russian people aren’t buying it

What nonsense, they never tried to humiliate him. All the west wants is to ensure Ukraine survives.

Like it or not, with a power base and nukes we have to deal with Putin.

Dealing with Putin is not the issue, the question is why should he get to dictate terms, the west has nukes, it has a far more capable military, it has a much bigger population and is vastly richer.

Nope not trying to cover for Trump, I’m not that invested….just try to deal with the facts which so far are pretty good.

‘They never tried to humiliate him’….you can’t be serious. Russia has never ceased being the bad guy. Sochi was a classical example.

He gets to dictate some terms because what he does is not important enough to the West to risk nuclear brinksmanship. And if that’s not a factor, then there are no NATO troops fighting, which means Russia will slowly and painfully choke the life out of Ukraine and the exodus of the best will gather momentum. A repeat of the last 15 months, slow, costly Russian gains and Ukranian destruction.

……

No the Ukraine is not a template for the whole of Eastern Europe, it’s not going to be followed by automatic attacks on other Eastern European countries….it’s been too hard. That’s something we have to thank Ukraine for demonstrating. We can deal with it without considering all the breathless domino scare tactics.

I'd said ah yes the classic myth of Russian invincibility, but really what your doing is covering for Trump here. No matter what type of deal he's going try to force down Ukraine's throat your going try to justify by claiming it's the best Ukraine can get.

Well said, I totally agree, he's always covering for Trump, said it so many times, the Art of Deal is peace with Trump throwing Ukraine under a bus by satisfying all of Putin's wants.

Trump has never once stood up to Putin in the manner of no, enough no more you're not going to have Ukrainian land.....period.

Poor old Hysteria quaking in her boots because Trump may actually succeed. Don’t worry dear if that’s happens you can rush back and edit the dozens of posts you have made saying he was going to fail. That’s what your’e good at ….cheating.

Hold on, you even screwed that up! ROFL!

Moffie, you're just lying again, here, from the the blog "Here we go again.'

Is this going to turn out as another world stage humiliation by Putin of Trump?

I sincerely hope I'm wrong and that Trump is instrumental in ending another senseless war.

Sies man, can that mask hiding your true self slip anymore!?

DennyHall Of Famer

11,904 posts

Jul 15, 2025, 04:06

this morning classless Trump saying that 'Putin fooled Obama, Bush and Clinton but he doesn't fool me'

Yeah, right.

Should invite him to Ruckers where I religiously stated months ago that Putin was playing him, that Putin had no interest in peace and that he was all talk. Trump also boasted that he gets on well with Putin.......with tears in my eyes I ask again.....who in hell wants to get on well with a murdering dictator!!!

DennyHall Of Famer

11,904 posts

Jun 04, 2025, 05:35

opines Trump, he further opines Putin has gone' crazy.'

Nothing is further from the truth. Nothing has 'happened' to Putin, Putin is what he's always been, all that's happened is that Trump has belatedly woken up to Putin playing him for the fool that he is, meaning Putin was never interested in peace, his only interest is the occupation of Ukraine.

The leader of the free world got sucked in big-time by a dictator.

Trump's statement clearly indicates that he has no grip on Putin.

DennyHall Of Famer

11,904 posts

May 06, 2025, 03:22

Russia/Ukraine peace negotiations has flopped. Putin as I've said was never interested and D1Donnie bungled by fawning over Putin while berating Zelensky in front of a world wide audience.

The Kremin was doing high fives. You'd swear that Trump was schooled in the ANC art of bungling and he has done no better than what the pretender Kamala Hariss would have done

And then we find the blog you are quoting above. Here’s the full pathetic thing:

Forum » Beenos Trumpet » So here we go again

DennyHall Of Famer

11,904 posts

Aug 07, 2025, 04:47

R2 between Trump and Putin to end the war. Negotiations have only just begun and already as in R1 old Donnie is bursting with enthusiasm. All I'm saying is that we've seen this play before.

It's obvious as it's been all along that Putin has not said anything positive or shown any enthusiasm himself to end the war and until he does I stand convinced that he's playing Donnie once again.

Is this going to turn out as another world stage humiliation by Putin of Trump?

I sincerely hope I'm wrong and that Trump is instrumental in ending another senseless war.

…….

Firstly note the date, last week. After months of saying he had no chance of succeeding, you post that piece of deception….repeating the same stuff. But because Trump has pulled off some unexpected important wins….Iran, India/Pakistan, the EU tariffs….you decide to hedge your bets by throwing in that you hope that you’re wrong.

Sure Hysteria, but whether you do or you don’t is immaterial…..you have a long record of sarcastically claiming it’s never going to happen. Hard to distance yourself from all those assertions old girl.

Mozart is correct. There is a need for peace and somr strongarm actions of Trump has finally let to s summit discuss a peaceful settlment of the issue is long overdue = the fac is if he Autopen President were too scared of meeting wth Puin on the issue, On the tehr hand Puin knows exactl what hapened as to corrupt conduct of him and his family as well s politicians like Clinton, Pelosi and Schiff in both Russia and Ukraine was involved in and Biden knew he is a poor negotiator and despite a request jn 2021 in Geneva Putin requsted for such a meeting to settle the Ukraine Biden was obviously totally ignorant of what was discussed or happening.

Stav lost the plot again - he loves to quote from the Kiev media and dies not realize hat press media independence in Ukraine is banned and media outlets totally controlled So opinion polls in Uktaine becomes a head ache. People are for obvious reasons to speak out against the Kiev Government, and does not want to land in prison for critixizing the Kiev Regime.

Somehow Stav know what conditions will be discussed at the meeting in Alaska - we do not know anything. The media lies are endless, In the frst stance here were no capturing of the Crimea by Russian toops, There was a base in Sevatopol - which was the Headquarters of the Black Sea Fleet of Russia, There was no invasion of the Crimea and the Civil War never reached the Crimea at all, The Rusian did not send any troops to the Crimea to dd the troops already in Sevastopol since 1991, The Crimea as a special case carered for in the Ukraine constitution of 1991 - havng their own Parlament and that Parliament was abandoed by Ukraine in 2014. In the circumstances the Crimea Parliament called for a referendum as to a future of the Crimea be held, The fact is that the media Stav is addicted to believe the lies that the referendum was rigged. The result was that 94,5% of the votes supportd tat application be made that the Crimea become part of the Russian Federation. Really the population figures of the Crimea indicate 84% have Rusian as home language and 10% are Tartars, Neihe rof these two groups wanted to have nothing to do wth Ukraine. Only 2 % of the voters voted to remain part of Ukraine with only 4%,if the voters had Ukrainian as a home language/ I don't think there is no chance at all that the Crimea would remain part of Ukraine at all.

Then thete was another media story that was and is being total misepresentation referred to that is near to total BS and that relates to children from Ukraine being kept in Russia. The story started off that the Rusian Govenment refused to returned children they have kidnapped. The real story started off before the Russian invsion in 2021. In 2019 thee Ukraine Government banned the use of Russian in Ukraine school and Russian speaking people in Ukraine with relatives in Russia sent the hldren to get taught in Russain schools, The story then escalate and was used as propaganda by te Kiev Government as being part of the war issues, If there were real parents wanting their children back into a warzone they were no real parents saand it smells like BS. Secondly the Russian Government had 3,5 million woman and children from the area held by the rebels evacuated and moved them to safety in Russia, No children was kidnapped from Ukraine as claimed and the UN knew what happened and that the Rusians did not kidnap children from areas occupied by Ukraine forces. So how many chldren was ecvacuated from the war Zone is held in Russia against their will? Nobody ever provided a list of such children was never provided by the Ukraine Gvenrment to the UN - so which children from Ukraine has been kidnapped by the Russians, It beccame a part of the Ukraine Government propaganda - which is held up as a issue to be invovled in the peace negotiations.

Another issue is the area that may remain part of Russia. It is cetain that parts of the areas mentioed in the above comments have never been under the Ukraine Government since 2014 and it is obviously possible that those areas never under the control of the Ukraine Government since 2014 may not be retured to Ukraine, That leave the issue of land occupied by Russia since 2022 which may be returned to Ukraine or not/

The issue is relatively simple - insists on the compilation of a new Constitution for Ukraine to replace the one discarded by the new Regime in Kiev and a referendum being held in Ukraine to approve the new Constituton. Ina areas where the people strongly oppose the new Constitution they can become part of Russia.

There is ample evidence that Zelenskyy is tryng to sabotage any potential peace negotiations since it is unlikely that he could win re-election as President and he knows it, Fact is his conduct since Trump was inaugurated Zelenskyy tried to tell Trump in front of the media to deal with issues on his instruction and he got kcked out fo the WH for that reason. Since then Zelenskyy has been touring Europe to get support for Ukraine. Govenrments of the major NATO members were not really forthcoming iro cash grants like they got when the Autopen President was in charge n Washington. Ukraine was known for being the most corrupt Government in Europe and they still is. Any peace settlement will leave the country without cash aid and Zelesskyy knew a new Govenrment in Ukraine are going to send him and his cronies to jail for looting money made available to Ukaine by the USA.

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What's your problem Moffie. Everything I've said is true, even Trump admitted that Putin....'He's tapping me.'

Get it into your head that Putin doesn't gives a flea's fart about peace which has been proven to be the case.

And that they were doing high fives when Trump humiliated Zelensky in front of a world wide audience, it emboldened Putin.

Boasting that he gets on well with Putin further emboldened Putin to believe that Trump was a soft touch.

Under the header "Here we go again' there was a threesome healthy debate between Draad, myself and DA, funny how they didn't raise the thought of me wanting Trump to fail.

At no stage was I hoping for Trump to fail leading to even more young lives losing their life.

Moffie, your desperation stinks you very sad and pathetic sicko.

The sick-ou is you Hysteria. Your obsession with Trump is obvious it consumes you. Remember your string about how he was going to tank the economy…..the poor pensioners’ stocks…..blah blah. The market turns as it always does and you just leave that pile of shit right there, pretend you never said it. How about your claim he was going to send US troops to fight in the Ukraine?

Obsessive and no, the last thing you want is for the Ukraine to be settled. That’s how sick you are.

I read the situation and that is Putin is not an idiot - he knows a trade war and any other war against the USA is going to destroy the economy of Russia and he is not suicidal That is why Putin contacted Trump to ask for a meeting and accepted the venue as Alaska,

Nobody knw wht is going to be discussed in the meeting and my guess is that on some ssues here are agreement and that the others will be dealt with by experts leading to acual signing of a peace agreement at the meeting

Antoher thing is that from the word go the NATO allies has ben indformed about t he issue of the NATO members in Europe to get their inputs and after the WH fiasco - which you refer above - Zelenskyy rushed to the UK to meet wit King Charles and attend a NATO smmit of EU leaders, After Zelenskyy gave his sspeech and before the issue of the final statement by the meeting Starmer himself said he phoned Trump 3 times to make sure that evething decided will have the support of Trump.

So whatever is discussed in Alaska would have been cleared with the EU leadeship as to ecnomic impact on their economies and the NATO stengthening program.

What the media and the site experts said is on the negotiations table is based on guessing and often distorted by the ultra-lefist press who hate Trump and accuse him of everthing under the sun. Whatever is in the media about what is going to be decided on would be under a media attack that would rather want WW3 than a ucessful end to he Ukraine War tat Trump could be credited for,

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That is a huge reversal... Contrary to liberals who prefer to avoid speculating against the future, on this board, it was written that Russia would dictate the terms of the agreement, of the peace deal. Which is happening right now. Claiming that Putin contacted Trump when Trump was the one heavily demanding for a meeting is another outrageous claim as liberals do as they are obsessed with submission. The US had to force the meeting by threatening with nuclear weapons. Which was handled in a reasonable way by Russia, by the way in a move that has grown its stature to the rest of the world. Liberal countries are stuck with the mindset them and only them are the world, humanity when their population accounts for 1/7th or less than the world population. They prefer not to push forward the way the rest of the world is organizing themselves as these efforts are meant to dissociate from the liberal part of the world. During the liberal slaver era, one thing liberals were obsessed with: slaves had not to organize themselves.

Basically, Russia is winning a conventional war, the use of nuclear weapons do not meet the Russia's doctrine so they have appeared reasonable by accepting Trump's desperate call for a meeting.

Alaska is probably not neutral either. Russia's take on Alaska differs from the US, for Russians, Alaska still is part of Russia, it has been conceded for time to the US and Russia has a legitimate claim on it. Funnily enough, Trump has stated many times that he will move to Russia to go to the meeting. Weird stuff when it is considered. What a Freudian slip to make when Russia delegation is planned to move to the US.

Russia has been showing so far it holds many cards, many cards.

Russia Is an economy smaller than Italy, it’s only consequential because of nukes….get real Trad.

It was already addressed many times. Liberals keep clinging to the GDP thing while dismissing the PPP which is by the way very understandable as places around the world have an increased PPP. GDP may matter when one country wants to buy from the liberal world but a large part of the world is looking for ways to dissociate from the liberal world. Russia does not want wars, Russia wants to be left alone to benefit from the new big center of consumption that is Central Asia. Russia wealth will increase faster as it increases trade volumes with that part of the world because Russia will be able to sell more than natural resources. In the liberal world, Russia is restricted to the perception of a large land mass destined to sell primarily natural resources while in the rest of the world, they will be openings to diversify, which is a demand of Russian trade interests. Instead of importing inflation sent to Russia from the liberal part of the world to alleviate themselves, Russia prefers to push their own inflation.

This GDP thing was very bad already but with all the manoeuvers from the Trump administration, only a cognitively deficiency person from a medical perspective can take it.

Trump likes and admires Putin because he’s everything Trump aspires to be. A ruthless, violent dictator with contempt for democracy and a habit of eliminating any opposition in mysterious ways.

Trump hates Zelenskyy because he failed to help him tarnish Joe Biden’s political prospects by digging dirt on Hunter Biden.

And that’s it. The fate of around 40 million Ukrainians (and the security of large areas of Europe) is in the hands of a sleazy grifter from Queens who, thanks to 70+ million Low-Information Voters is now the most powerful man on the planet.

So you are calling the 70 million voters who chose Trump stupid. Now there’s a person with contempt for democracy.

I'll pay you a compliment by stating that your pro dictator Trump/Maga stance's a reprise of your du Toit rhetoric.. Bollocks.

It is….a simple examination of the facts rather than being a puppet swayed by media hype., in both cases. Well spotted.

I'll pay you a compliment by stating that your pro dictator Trump/Maga stance's a reprise of your du Toit/ de Allende/Quinton de Kock rhetoric.. Bollocks.

It's been cringeworthy and nauseatingly repetitive.

Imo..none of 'our' Trumpanzees will ever 'fess up & say, no, i can no longer support this batshit authoritarian dictator,.............,a disgusting POTUS, let alone leader of the Free World.

Speaking on Silverman’s show, Kimmel said former Trump supporters who found themselves in opposition to his agenda in office should be supported.

“Now you see these clips of Joe Rogan saying, ‘Why is he doing this? Why are you deporting people?’ And people go, ‘Fuck you! You supported him.’ I don’t buy into that,” Kimmel said.

“The door has to stay open. If you want to change your mind, that’s so hard to do. If you want to admit you were wrong, that is so hard and so rare to do. You are welcome.”

BB

Trump likes and admires Putin because he’s everything Trump aspires to be. A ruthless, violent dictator with contempt for democracy and a habit of eliminating any opposition in mysterious ways.

Trump hates Zelenskyy because he failed to help him tarnish Joe Biden’s political prospects by digging dirt on Hunter Biden.

And that’s it. The fate of around 40 million Ukrainians (and the security of large areas of Europe) is in the hands of a sleazy grifter from Queens who, thanks to 70+ million Low-Information Voters is now the most powerful man on the planet."

The above all is total BS. There is real rpoof that the like Putin story is based on lies spouted by the Obama Regime and the Democrats. There never was such a "liking" ever. Their problem is the Democrats were destroying the USA from within and the lies by the media did not remove that situation. The people who suffered daily from DP malgvernance voted against the DP and for Trump.

Kimmel is a hatemongering idiot and you quoting him is about as reliable as batshit you accuse othes of. There were more damage done to Democracy by the Autopen President than Trump could do in ten years, There is zero threat to areas in Europe and if there is Trump forced the NATO members to strengthen their armes o prtect Europe from suc a threat. In any event their are still 100 000 US troops stationed in Europe, There never was 40 million Ukrainians and the population now is down to nothing more than 33 million with at least 7 million who fled to EU countries.

So get real dimness - the Civil War in Ukraine started in 2014 when the Obama Administration caused the overthrow of the elected Government in Ukraine and started using it as a means for corruption in both the USA and Ukraine. There were repeated agreements signed to get back Ukraine to be a proper and indepnendent state, - eg the Minsk agreement - but that was sabtage by corrupt politicians in the USA and Ukraine. IN Ocotber 2021 their was a EU Secirty Council meeting attended by Biden and Putin and in a recorded eeting Putin asked Biden to arrange a meeting to stop the aggravating civil war in Eastern Ukraine. but either the Autopen President knew nothing abot what was discussed or his controllers did not allow anything to happen as to peace talks.

In a deserate effort t prevent the Russian Invasion Macron visited both Moscow and Kiev to sign the acceptance of the Minsk agreement by Putin and Macron and a new agrement was signed, The Autopen President/Regme wated nothing of it and a week before the invasion Zelenskyy had all the Russian speaking members of the Ukraine arrested which represent a brech of an agreement signed before that date by Zelenskyy himself. He obviosly did that on instruction of his paymasters in Washington.

Historic fact is Putin never wanted Ukraine as a part of the Russian Federation - all he wanted Russian speaking people living in Ukaine to be treated as human beings with human rights, That is a recorded historic fact - the kind of comments you make is media BS spread because of people in the USA and Ukraine benefitting illegally from corruption involved.

In any event Trump has never done anything about the Ukraine War situation that was not supported by the NATO leadership. They would know what is to be discussed in Alaska - yor souces will fantasize how they would get rid of Trump as President and in the process repeat lies they invented themselves.

You have been so branwashed about Trump you cannot even think for yourself anymore and every lie invented by the media is faithfully reported by you and Stav on site. .

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We went through about what?....three or four different websites with him?.......hard to believe someone could change as much as he has, the voice of reason and a man of decency ......flipped. Whatever it was it was a good act, had me fooled.

Stav

I have a question to you - which 3,5 people Putin deported you are referring to and what is your soure in that regard. Atthe start of the invasion by Russia the Rssian Government in a report to the UN Seciruty Council reprted that they are moving 3,5 million woman, children and the elderly from the Eastern Ukrane War zone to safer places in Russia.

Russia submitted a full report on he removal to the UN Seurity Council. There was no real deportation of anybody and those people will return to Ukraine after a peace settlement has been reached, . In fact to put it bluntly it has zero to do wth the present negotiations at all. The media story on the issue is plain BS and you fell lock stok and barrell for it. Brainwashed idiocy supreme..

Ukraine are not going to win this war. They should have been given long-range weapons earlier.

The best settlement for them at this stage, would probably be to freeze the lines of the war, with a security guarantee from NATO and Trump Incorporated. (Formerly America)....

Given that Trump is the one negotiating the deal. If Trump does not provide security guarantees for his own "deal", he has just handed 20% of Ukraine to Russia and allowed Putin a platform to take the rest of Ukraine at a later stage.

Ukraine could potentially use this time to develop powerful long-range weapons, and a nuclear bomb as a deterrent if Putin invades again.

Ukraine are not going to win this war.

Agreed, negotiations is just a bullshit exercise, Putin as I've always maintained is not interested in a negotiated settlement unless he gets all of the land Russian soldiers occupy. It would help if one or two European countries come to their aid as with North Korea assisting Russia.

Trump is going to offer Putin whatever he wants.

Ukraine are not going to win this war. They should have been given long-range weapons earlier.

It's not a question of winning, its a questioning of exhausting Russian capabilities to the point where Russia will offer realistic ceasefire terms.

The best settlement for them at this stage, would probably be to freeze the lines of the war, with a security guarantee from NATO and Trump Incorporated. (Formerly America)....

Yes the Ukrainian's would take that, but Trump won't give any security guarantees side from America's side and Putin will insist on far more, such as additional territory handed over to Russia, Ukrainian disarmament and a caseation of military aid to Ukraine.

Given that Trump is the one negotiating the deal. If Trump does not provide security guarantees for his own "deal", he has just handed 20% of Ukraine to Russia and allowed Putin a platform to take the rest of Ukraine at a later stage.

I think there is a lot of hysteria over this meeting. While there's a good chance Trump might try to force such a deal on Ukraine, everyone is overestimating Trump's ability to force Ukraine into accepting such a deal. Why would they accept it, why would Europe accept it? The US is no longer supplying military aid to Ukraine, it will sell military equipment to Europe to pass on to Ukraine, is Trump really going to jeopardize billions in arm sales?

Secondly there is a equally like chance that not a whole lot comes out of this meeting or Trump walks away like he did with North Korea.

Ukraine could potentially use this time to develop powerful long-range weapons, and a nuclear bomb as a deterrent if Putin invades again.

If I were Ukraine I'd be secretly working on a nuclear program.

S tav

I think there is a lot of hysteria over this meeting. While there's a good chance Trump might try to force such a deal on Ukraine, everyone is overestimating Trump's ability to force Ukraine into accepting such a deal. Why would they accept it, why would Europe accept it? The US is no longer supplying military aid to Ukraine, it will sell military equipment to Europe to pass on to Ukraine, is Trump really going to jeopardize billions in arm sales?

The fact is there are still arms deliveries to Ukraine on a daily basis - delivered by aircraft, Where did you get story from?

Second fact the NATO Leaders are in on all discussions and fully informed of what is happening - so why should the EU leaders not acceot things they agreed to?

Why should Zelenskyy not agreed to it - it si not he who is suffering - it si the Ukraine people. Zelenskyy is not interested ain anything - as long as the war can continue and he can retain power. That is a fact. Tee are serious indcations that e is as corrupt as his wWashington partners is, So why should he accept the continuation of the war? Obvious fact - Peace would lead to new elections iand the election of new leaders in the country and Zlenskyy will have to flee from Ukraie or he will face jail ime for looting himself,

It is not Zelensky suffering - that si for the voters of Uraine to deal with - it is about Zeenskyy losing power. That si the real sise here and so did the whole of Eatsern Europe - but eht replaced heir Governments was a Commuist dictaotoirship in East Germany and the rest of Eastern Europe, In the case of Zelesnkyy it si different . He des not ant to surrender and lose power. He fears that more than he fears the Russians. So he s trying to get Europe to support him - while the voters in the country are suffering.

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Given that Trump is the one negotiating the deal. If Trump does not provide security guarantees for his own "deal", he has just handed 20% of Ukraine to Russia and allowed Putin a platform to take the rest of Ukraine at a later stage.

Russia has taken 20% of the Ukraine and it’s not giving it back. That result is far better than any military expert would have predicted in 2022 before the war. You can’t give away what you don’t have, Putin is shrewd enough to know that.

And he can go grinding on. Pretty soon we will look at Russia holding 40% of the Ukraine and still being recalcitrant….along with many more dead, many cities destroyed.

And yes there are no guarantees with any deal here. But look at the big picture, every country at risk will be way better armed. The Russian military limitations have been exposed and even if the deal is faulty a new Russian advance would be morally unsupportable even by its allies …Russia would become even more of a rogue nation.

And you buy time for diplomatic initiatives and for Russia to weigh the costs of this small gain to the territory of the largest country on Earth.

Yes any deal will easily be labeled weak or imperfect, Russia holds all the cards or at least all the cards that the major powers are willing to play. But it will be better than the deal available in 6 months or a year. And it’s humane.

And he can go grinding on. Pretty soon we will look at Russia holding 40% of the Ukraine and still being recalcitrant….along with many more dead, many cities destroyed.

How soon is soon? The peak amount of Ukrainian territory Russia held was 26% back in 2022, that dropped to somewhere between 17-19% in 2023 and even as of August 2025 it remains at around 19% (according to ChatGPT and Co-Pilot). Even if you were to quadruple Russia's rate of advance it would take them over 5 years to capture 40% of Ukraine.

Yes any deal will easily be labeled weak or imperfect, Russia holds all the cards that the major powers are willing to play. But it will be better than the deal available in 6 months or a year. And it’s humane.

What appears to be on offer is not a deal but a demand for Ukraine to cease to exist as an independent state. I'm sure people at the time said the Munich agreement was the best deal available and it was humane.

How soon is soon? The peak amount of Ukrainian territory Russia held was 26% back in 2022, that dropped to somewhere between 17-19% in 2023 and even as of August 2025 it remains at around 19% (according to ChatGPT and Co-Pilot). Even if you were to quadruple Russia's rate of advance it would take them over 5 years to capture 40% of Ukraine.

Nitpicking…..territory will be lost and men. The treaty won’t get any better.

What appears to be on offer is not a deal but a demand for Ukraine to cease to exist as an independent state. I'm sure people at the time said the Munich agreement was the best deal available and it was humane

Again the false historical parallels….no it’s not WW2 and the Uk isn’t the USA. There are 60,000 casualties a month as much as half that could conclude in deaths. Eighteen more months and that’s another half a million young men killed for the language on a piece of paper. Language which won’t stop the Russians from any future actions.

Sign the treaty, get broad acceptance of Ukraine’s status. Help neighboring countries build up there defenses and try once again to influence Russia to compete economically not militarily. And save the lives that can be saved rather than sacrificing them for unattainable theoretical objectives