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FORUM / MIKES GRIPES /  The Truth of the Matter: Russian Deaths in Ukraine

The Truth of the Matter: Russian Deaths in Ukraine

Started by bobbok...48 REPLIES1,804 VIEWS· 22 Mar 2023, 08:19
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BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
22 Mar 2023, 08:19
#1
22 Mar 2023, 08:19#1

12


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Mar 2023, 10:08
#2
22 Mar 2023, 10:08#2

I listened to this talk show and the discussion provided no proven numbers and some guessed figures of 5 000 killed per month - ie 60 000 plus in the start f the Rusisan Invasion.   Initially there were circa 125 000 soldiers involved in the Invasion and half of them were killed to date according to what the talk show said.   

Since then 300 000 Rusian soldiers have been called up for training and they are not yet involved in Ukraine since they are being trained on the area of Russia that used to border Ukraine.    So Russia has at present 60 000 soldiers in Ukraine?    That sounds like propaganda BS to me.    The Russians are still advancing deeper in Ukraine and that would not possible with only 60 000 fighting soldiers.   The situation is that CNN was used to discuss the issue indicates  to me that it is another propaganda issue and not real.   CNN is in fact lying totally instead of being a news platform.  

                

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
22 Mar 2023, 11:02
#3
22 Mar 2023, 11:02#3

Initially there were circa 125 000 soldiers involved in the Invasion and half of them were killed to date according to what the talk show said.  

Most sources I have heard have put in the initial numbers of Russian forces who participated in the invasion at around 190,000.

Since then 300 000 Russian soldiers have been called up for training and they are not yet involved in Ukraine  since they are being trained on the area of Russia that used to border Ukraine. So Russia has at present 60 000 soldiers in Ukraine?    That sounds like propaganda BS to me. 

Of course it does, because its yet another strawman argument from you. Every commentator and media outlet has reported that Russia has long since committed substantial amounts of the 300,000 mobilized troops to active combat in Ukraine. Hell even the the Russian's themselves are not making the claim that the 300,000 mobilized troops are still under going training. 

The Russians are still advancing deeper in Ukraine and that would not possible with only 60 000 fighting soldiers. 

The amount of territory Russia has captured in Ukraine in January and February is was 11%. 

See 12:51 in this video


So Mike explain to me that if Russia has not taken substantial causalities, why is it so slow to advance? What's it been doing in Ukraine all this time?


ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
22 Mar 2023, 11:11
#4
22 Mar 2023, 11:11#4
Both the British MOD and the US think tank the Institute for the Study of War reckon the Russian offensive is losing momentum.
The Institute for the Study of War was of the opinion before the offensive began that the Russian's would achieve some moderate territorial advancements (not as significant as what Ukraine achieved with its Kharkiv offensive) but achieve nothing of major strategic importance but it now looks the Russian's won't even achieve that. The  Russian offensive has been so much of a damp squid being so innocuous that many commentators struggled to tell if it was actually happening. Russian milbloggers themselves have described it achieving nothing more than some modest tactical victories but nothing on the strategic level. It did result in heavy fighting and high causalities among both sides but the frontline has barely moved.
It remains to be seen what Ukraine can do in their offensive.
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
22 Mar 2023, 11:50
#5
22 Mar 2023, 11:50#5

"reckon the Russian offensive is loosing momentum"

No Mike...they are losing men, soldiers.... boys... in horrifying numbers...

I feel for these Russian soldiers, I genuinely do, they are mostly being forced to fight a war that they want nothing to do with.

SH
sharkbokCaptain23,201 posts
22 Mar 2023, 13:45
#6
22 Mar 2023, 13:45#6
Russia has half their jail convicts in the war. The ones that survive will be released back onto the street. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Mar 2023, 13:52
#7
22 Mar 2023, 13:52#7

Stav

The 300 000 soldiers were a week ago still in the Rusia and still in training confirmed by the Colonel that used to serve in the USA army and knows what is happening in Ukraine.    They do not do what the Ukraine government does - take 14 to 17 year olds from the street - put a gun in their hands and send them to the front line without any training - where they died quickly. 

The fact that CNN was used to promote their report indicates to me it is BS.    I have been watching CNN  for many years and initially thought they were a reliable news agency.   However in the past ten years  there was not a single major news story by CNN that was not based on lies and propaganda.   The result is that when I saw a story they are involved in I immediately think it is the normal lie reporting expected from them. 

In the past the news agencies had embedded journalists when wars are being fought - but the nearest the reporters come to the front line is certainly more than 20 kms.    So how do the Ukraine supporting media knows about the casualty figures of the Russians - secondly how does the USA Government knows what it is.   There is no stats  provided that confirm the statements made.   

The fact is that the site members based all their postings on media reports.   I do not - and hads been bloody sarcastic at times - so the map as to where fighting is taking place  indicates what is really happening and Ukraine are not gaining anything       According to Stav Russia is a barbaric country run by a dictator - because the media tells him so.    They do not have proper arms and their soldiers are not properly trained before sending into combat - that certainly is a joke.    The armaments ids deficient and a kid can blow their tanks up with a cracker.

I do not dispute many soldiers are killed in Ukraine - but the numbers not been known is oftena bused to promote propaganda.   Stavv's major advancements in the war is countered by the fac t that on the maps indicating batlles it amounted to nothing.    His main story relates to the evacuation by the Russians from Kherson - but the city is virtually surrounded by Russian soldiers so how long would Ukraine be able to  hung onto that city.

Despite the claim the Ukrainians have not beaten off the Russian attack on Bakhmut.   So how true is that story. anyway.   Stav has been so inaccurate about what he writes on site - that one can only assume he got his contributions from media stories.    I have one answer expected from him indicating what area was held by the Ukraine Government before the invasion and what area held by the rebels was regained by the Ukraine army after the invasion took place That would be the  major gain the Ukraine army made.   But there is none.   The Russian army systematically attack specific areas and once the area they targeted  is occupied they move to the next area.   That is what the battle maps indicated.  

I would want to see the war ended - but that is apparently not the view of the American Government - neither is it the view o the warmongers on site.  

                                 

             

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
22 Mar 2023, 14:23
#8
22 Mar 2023, 14:23#8
Ukraine has also lost a massive amount of people, due to this very unnecessary war....
To me, the very fact that Russia has still not gained the ground, nor the momentum, to take over Ukraine, more than a year after they started invading, in a war that some predicted would only last 2 - 3 days, just tells me how horrific this has been for these Russian soldiers.
I have zero doubt at all in my mind that if Putin were faced with this very same decision again, he would never ever have given the go ahead to start this stupid war.

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
22 Mar 2023, 14:28
#9
22 Mar 2023, 14:28#9

"The fact is that the site members based all their postings on media reports.   I do not"

What absolute bollocks

So you have first person accounts on what is really happening behind enemy lines in all of these scenarios that you are forcing other members to believe...

What a crock of shit

The difference between you and I Mik e, is that I do and have always believed that the propaganda has happened on both sides..... and it is still happening on both sides, and it will also continue to occur from both sides.... but at the end of the day, you need to make some sort of moral judgement on who you support in this war, and no matter which way that support leans, you will be judged by it.

SE
SebPro2,680 posts
22 Mar 2023, 15:28
#10
22 Mar 2023, 15:28#10

Somethings smells very foul here, very foul.

Rather trust an experienced military man whose been there and done the hard yards, not some journalist educated at a southern ivy league university. these  are lies, maybe in ignorance that fit the narrative that seeks to weaponise the media.

He is an ex US marine captain, was a weapons inspector in Iraq (also exposed some of the atrocities and lies in that operation later, also framed and targeted like Julian Assange, by CIA for that)...also was a US military weapons expert stationed in Russia after fall of USSR.

Hear both sides and make your own minds up...


https://youtu.be/uiOhYTXxZwE
ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
22 Mar 2023, 15:45
#11
22 Mar 2023, 15:45#11

The 300 000 soldiers were a week ago still in the Rusia and still in training confirmed by the Colonel that used to serve in the USA army and knows what is happening in Ukraine.

How did he confirm it?

They do not do what the Ukraine government does - take 14 to 17 year olds from the street - put a gun in their hands and send them to the front line without any training - where they died quickly.

What evidence do you have to support that?

The fact that CNN was used to promote their report indicates to me it is BS.    I have been watching CNN  for many years and initially thought they were a reliable news agency.   However in the past ten years  there was not a single major news story by CNN that was not based on lies and propaganda.   The result is that when I saw a story they are involved in I immediately think it is the normal lie reporting expected from them.

Mike you have no business accusing anyone else of lying considering you have found to be have been wrong on so many occasions, which makes you either a massive liar or simply someone who has no concept of what lying is.

In the past the news agencies had embedded journalists when wars are being fought - but the nearest the reporters come to the front line is certainly more than 20 kms.


And a quick search online and you will find many instances of journalists being close to the frontline.

So how do the Ukraine supporting media knows about the casualty figures of the Russians - secondly how does the USA Government knows what it is.   There is no stats  provided that confirm the statements made.

They don't know for certain but they have estimates based on various reports and sources from the Ukrainian government and military sources, from intercepted Russian communications and death notices published in local Russian newspapers, eye witness reports from civilians and journalists as well as NGO's. Pro Russian milbloggers have also reported on high Russian causalities. They can also compare claimed causality rates to historical causality rates from previous military conflicts. There is also the issue if that Russia wasn't taking substantial causalities why has its rate of advance being so slow.  Ukrainian sources have been able to provide numerous video examples of causalities being inflicted on Russians. We also have thousands of Russian amoured vehicles confirmed lost (verified with pictures), those losses where highly unlikely to occur with significant personal loss as well.

Its madness to even suggest at this point that Russian causalities have not been substantial.
The fact is that the site members based all their postings on media reports.   I do not - and hads been bloody sarcastic at times - so the map as to where fighting is taking place  indicates what is really happening and Ukraine are not gaining anything.
So if we base all our postings on media reports, what do you do? Because if you think independent youtube channels are not media which is where you seem to get your information from well then what I linked too is not media either because it was also an independent youtube channel and the maps came from an independent source on twitter. So your argument literally falls apart in seconds.
According to Stav Russia is a barbaric country run by a dictator - because the media tells him so. 

Up till this point I've never called Russia barbaric but I think its an apt description of their actions in Ukraine. And yes it most certainly is a dictatorship. The media can provide evidence to back up those claims. Video footage of flattened Ukrainian cities is pretty compelling evidence.

They do not have proper arms and their soldiers are not properly trained before sending into combat - that certainly is a joke.
A misrepresentation of what's been reported. The Russian's have run into ammunition shortages, particularly when it comes to artillery. There was also video footage of some old obsolete equipment being used in Ukraine. For example LPRA units being equipped with Mosin-Nagant rifles a weapon made back in 1891. T-62's have been visually confirmed in Ukraine. That's not to say all Russian equipment is obsolete or that the Russian's are totally out of any type of weapons or equipment. And yes there also has been numerous reports off poorly trained troops being sent into combat.
The armaments ids deficient and a kid can blow their tanks up with a cracker.
Another strawman argument.
I do not dispute many soldiers are killed in Ukraine - but the numbers not been known is oftena bused to promote propaganda
Its true that numbers can be often be used for propaganda, but that's true for both sides.
Stavv's major advancements in the war is countered by the fac t that on the maps indicating batlles it amounted to nothing.    His main story relates to the evacuation by the Russians from Kherson - but the city is virtually surrounded by Russian soldiers so how long would Ukraine be able to  hung onto that city.
What are you talking about. I was talking about the total territorial advanced achieved by Russia in the whole of Ukraine for the months of January and February, which amounted to 0.11% of Ukrainian territory.
And Kherson virtually surrounded? It borders the Dnieper River and there isn't any Russia units on the North-Western side of the river, how can Kherson be virtuallu surrounded when the Russia's only face it on side and from across a river?
Despite the claim the Ukrainians have not beaten off the Russian attack on Bakhmut.   So how true is that story. anyway.
Russia has been trying to take Bakhmut since August 2022 and for all that effort they now only control maybe 60-70% of it. This is for a moderate sized town with little strategic importance.

 Stav has been so inaccurate about what he writes on site - that one can only assume he got his contributions from media stories.
And what your on the ground in the Ukraine and are able to visually confirm every thing you say? . No your just going out of your way to find alternate fringe media sources that align with your pre conceived views and you take everything they say at face value.

I have one answer expected from him indicating what area was held by the Ukraine Government before the invasion and what area held by the rebels was regained by the Ukraine army after the invasion took place That would be the  major gain the Ukraine army made.   But there is none.
LOL that's liking suggesting the Soviet victory at Stalingrad was nothing important because other territory was still under occupation at the same time. The Ukrainian army has punched far above its weight in this conflict with many analysts at the start of the conflict predicting they might only be able to hold out for a few days to a few weeks at best. On the other hand the vaunted Russian army has woefully under performed.

The Russian army systematically attack specific areas and once the area they targeted  is occupied they move to the next area.   That is what the battle maps indicated. 

The Russian army attempted to capture Kyiv. It failed and was forced to retreat from the territory in northern Ukraine that it occupied. It attempted to take the city of Kharkiv, it failed. Later it was forced to abandon most of the territory it occupied in Kharkiv Oblast. It was forced to retreat from Kherson.

Russia has been forced into approach of slowly advancing after mass artillery bombardments and a willingness to expend a lot of manpower because its proven incapable of fighting modern maneuver warfare. It's gained them some territory but its not a war winning strategy. The battle maps indicate the Russian offensive has barely gained them any ground whatsoever.

I would want to see the war ended - but that is apparently not the view of the American Government - neither is it the view o the warmongers on site. 

You want to see an end to the conflict but you want it on Russian terms.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
22 Mar 2023, 15:52
#12
22 Mar 2023, 15:52#12

Better work Stav...

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
22 Mar 2023, 16:19
#13
22 Mar 2023, 16:19#13

100% with you DA, given the obvious bias of both sides one has to maintain an independent point of view.

SH
sharkbokCaptain23,201 posts
22 Mar 2023, 16:37
#14
22 Mar 2023, 16:37#14

If any media that is not far right wing publishes news, DumbMike classifies it as fake news and assumes the opposite. His Tucker Carlson enshrined statue is the gospel. 

Everyone relies on the media. Sometimes the data we process is wrong, either disinformation or misinformation. 

We dont all have DumbMike's ability of transporting ourselves to the front line. 

SE
SebPro2,680 posts
22 Mar 2023, 21:55
#15
22 Mar 2023, 21:55#15

The reality versus ideology and emotion.

Facts, statistics and logistics determine military success.

https://youtu.be/9IA1rcQM_QY

https://youtu.be/bZbfsZ2I2

 

These guys know what they talking about, there's no hidden agendas or bias or gain...just experienced knowledge and the integrity and guts to tell the truth. USA needs more men like this. There are some great Americans still left. America can be great without hegemony and treating other countries with equal respect. Each nation has different cultures and values and we must respect that...we must learn that each country is sovereign and we don't win friends by conquering them, or manipulating them for selfish gain.

The multi polar world is knocking at the door, no indeed it has already started. I'm all for peaceful existence but we'll never obtain that if there is underhanded plots to destabilise, interfere and control. That's what bullies do.

Just look at the numerous coup d'etats and wars post WW2 USA has had their hand in.



BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
22 Mar 2023, 22:50
#16
22 Mar 2023, 22:50#16

Each nation has different cultures and values and we must respect that...we must learn that each country is sovereign and we don't win friends by conquering them, or manipulating them for selfish gain

Ffs. talk about being 'tweegesig' !

How t.f. do you support the evil RatPutin when you express sentiments like that ?

McGregor: We are in the final phase of this conflict.
Ukrainian troops in Donbass are immobilizeMarch 25, '22 ........... more bullshit

When the invasion started McG predicted the invasion would last for 5 days which he subsequently extended to 10 days.


ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
23 Mar 2023, 00:36
#17
23 Mar 2023, 00:36#17

Ffs. talk about being 'tweegesig' !

How t.f. do you support the evil RatPutin when you express sentiments like that?
Its crazy the lack of self awareness.



SE
SebPro2,680 posts
23 Mar 2023, 00:58
#18
23 Mar 2023, 00:58#18

You are the hypocrite, it appears...what I can see is that you and some others here are stirred up by hate and deep emotional problems. You cannot control yourself and fear what you don't know and understand...

I don't know if Putin is evil or not, it's simple as that as I don't know him.

Because the media and western governments say he is, and twist and make up speculations does not mean it is so and don't spin the deceitful narrative that's being used by atrocity propaganda. That's evil.

In fact, what appears in media has e xtremely foul agendas and narratives to fuel hatred and emotions and especially is contaminated with an assortment of outright lies and more cunning half-truths.

I once had a bad habit of judging others...especially those I do not know...I endeavour to stop that, although it's sometimes a struggle. Nevertheless it's far better to check that.

Jesus says; "Judge not, least you be judged".

I simply cannot judge somebody I don't know and certainly don't use media as reliable...in fact I see other leaders blatantly lie all the time. Bush and Blair blatantly lied knowingly that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Over a million civilians were killed as a result of that. One could go on and on...Vietnam, Yugoslavia, Libya, Yemen, Afghanistan... there's now troubles brewing in Pakistan, Myanmar and Thailand and we know who is involved.

 Biden tells lies regularly and so do many in congress. Leaders that break agreements, governments that cause chaos in smaller counties to overthrow.

 Don't like any politicians, bar a few in the past.

To me, lying is evil and even worst when the agendas are for gain and dominance.






DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
23 Mar 2023, 04:29
#19
23 Mar 2023, 04:29#19

I don't know if Putin is evil or not, it's simple as that as I don't know him.

But you know Zuma is evil and you don't know Zuma either.

 Biden tells lies regularly and so do many in congress.

Maybe so but Trump is a shameless habitual Liar.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Mar 2023, 06:17
#20
23 Mar 2023, 06:17#20

SB and Stav

You come up with  "How do you know" and whenever "the rightwing media state something" you say I believe it on site - but the same questions can be asked of you.   You two came up with BS you came up with from the fake media - who for the past decade has never had a major story that was not based on lies.

The problem is that whenever the lies are exposed you still find some excuse for what you wrote on site of which you have no proof anyway.   What you write on site is just a repeat of what the media tells you what to believe and what not to believe.    At least I go to fact based information that  became available.    The history of Ukraine is factual until 2014 by fact.   When you were confronted with the coup in 2014 - organized and funded by the USA and the consequent  appointment of USA appointees to run the Government of Ukraine confrrmed  by the Obama Assistant Secretary of State - you two ignore it.    When it came to involvement of US  senor politicians in massive corruption in Ukraine you ignore it - but the info provided is factual and hushed up by the FBI.    When Russia alleged that there was bio-labs doing dangerous research and lodged documents with the UN - you two said it was lies - yet the same by now Biden Deputy Secretary of State under oath in the Senate confirmed the existence of bio-labs - but came out with the BS that the research was not dangerous.   If that is a fact why is the US  Government worried about the pathogens falling in the hands of the Russians and why in one lab that was in fact captured by the Russians did they find an official US Government instruction that if the pathogens cannot be removed and safe-guarded the pathogens must be destroyed?

Neither I nor you two have any factual information on Ukraine and the war there - you two totally relies on the media - while I try to get information also from liberal websites and look at where battles are reported on maps and then see how the war is progressing,    But none of us really knows anything we have real evidence on.     What I emphasize is that the USA is controlling the Ukraine Government and is promoting the War and undermined efforts to stop the War.    Why does the US Government support a very real dictatorship in Ukraine is questionable and why they sabotaged peaceful settlement of Ukraine through negotiation in the past and still does is a question that can be answered.

By the way one question to you.   Have you got any evidence supporting your claims that the objective of  the Russian Government to conquer  Ukraine and make it part of some imaginary empire?   If you do please provide the necessary evidence supporting that one.   

            

                                         



CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Mar 2023, 06:27
#21
23 Mar 2023, 06:27#21

Denny 

I know Zuma quite well - through personal contact - but I know as a result he cannot be trusted.  I even told the ANC Mayor at the time that he will destroy the ANC and the response was that they will keep him under control.   We know that was not possible.    So that one should be in jail    I do not know Ramaphosa personally - but  with evidence now coming out he is just as corrupt as Zuma is.    Is there anybody in the ANC Government who is NOT Corrupt?   By the way the same can be asked of  Biden and his Cabinet members as well as the senior bureaucrats  in the US Government. 

         

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Mar 2023, 06:34
#22
23 Mar 2023, 06:34#22

Stav

"I would want to see the war ended - but that is apparently not the view of the American Government - neither is it the view o the warmongers on site. 

You want to see an end to the conflict but you want it on Russian terms."
I want it on the basis of the Minsk agreement of 2015 - nothing more or nothing less.   That was not Russian terms - it was supported by the French and German Governments as well.        
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Mar 2023, 06:34
#23
23 Mar 2023, 06:34#23

Stav

"I would want to see the war ended - but that is apparently not the view of the American Government - neither is it the view o the warmongers on site. 

You want to see an end to the conflict but you want it on Russian terms."
I want it on the basis of the Minsk agreement of 2015 - nothing more or nothing less.   That was not Russian terms - it was supported by the French and German Governments as well.        
SE
SebPro2,680 posts
23 Mar 2023, 08:38
#24
23 Mar 2023, 08:38#24

What I do know and yes it is 100% true is that the Russian president (who by the way has about 80% support, it varies slightly in Russia but not much) that is in Statista based in Hamburg, if that can be trusted, has made many attempts to negotiate fair terms over the Ukraine territory. After the illegal coup d'estat in February 2014 of the government there has been terrible violence and murders of Russian civilians by extreme right wing, Bandera followers and yes outright Nazi's, such as Azov and other groups...just look at all the tatoos on the soldiers captured after Mariupol ( Swastikas, even images of even Hitler and that is 100% true...Ukrainians are generally lovely people and so are Russians. I've been there in 2000, in fact I could not see any differences. Then in 2014 it all changed with USA blatant interference by Neo Cons such as Nuland and other politicians...that is too 100% true.

To try and settle this Putin has tried very hard via 2 agreements, Minsk 1 and 2. This was witnessed and sanctioned by Germany and France and that is true as well. This was scorned and ignored and never implemented. Now Merkel has confessed that it was never the intention of Western participants to carry out but merely as a red-herring to placate Russia so that behind the scenes USA and Nato could train rebels and build up an arsenal stockpile of weapons behind this treacherous facade. This is 100% true and that has being going on and on since 2014. What skullduggery is this...now this is very evil. It's blantantly deceitful and treacherous...the most despicable deed. And now they expect Russia to negotiate peace terms, I ask you an honest question...how on earth can one expect to trust people like this. This is evil...these are evil people...would you in all honesty trust people like this ? Can they ever be trusted, obviously no.

The media has been spreading lies, setting up and indoctrinating non-thinking masses with demonising Russia even blaming them for inflation, energy costs whilst at the same refusing to investigate North stream sabotage.

When I see what the west has become I'm very disgusted and ashamed. I have Irish and French ancestry on my dads side and mums side were true Scots...MacGregors.

Once I was a proud supporter and fan of Winston Churchill but not any more. It's very sad.

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
23 Mar 2023, 10:46
#25
23 Mar 2023, 10:46#25

The usual biased and ignorant rubbish from our resident Putin apologists.

NATO is evil and Putin is a saint.

I mean, really . . .

SE
SebPro2,680 posts
23 Mar 2023, 11:52
#26
23 Mar 2023, 11:52#26

Maybe it's nearer to the end than we think. What the prophets saw 2000 years ago fits the situation and picture perfectly...how was it possible to predict this so long ago???

The world is clearly going down:


This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

 Without natural affection, truce breakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

 Traitors, heady, high minded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

.

 

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

 

 

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

 And changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and four footed beasts, and creeping things.

 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshiped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.

And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

 Backbiters, haters of God, de spiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

 Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

 

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
23 Mar 2023, 12:43
#27
23 Mar 2023, 12:43#27

. . . and now it's turned into a sermon . . .

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Mar 2023, 12:46
#28
23 Mar 2023, 12:46#28

Seb It is no good to deal with religious issues in discussions on this site.   Some site members have no religious beliefs and if they have a religion it is called Climate Change.    They claim it is scientific but every doomsday forecast of the so-called scientists have gone by years ago and since what they forecasted has never materialized.    

In the 1970's it was an imminent ice age that would destroy mankind and that was supposed to have  started early in the 21st century,   Since then the narrative changed to global warming.  Every forecast since the 1980's has never materialized and an example was in another decade there would be no ice covering the Artic in summer in ten years time and when that ten years was up - the next forecast is  all they do then was to say in 2015 was that in five years time the same would happen.   There are literally dozens of such forecasts made and none materialized.

Nobody really has a problem with that kind of doomsday forecasts - but when it is taken over by politicians  they use it in their own interests.   I t gives Governments an excuse to oppress the people they are supposed to represent in a democratic country,   so scare the people into panic and the people - at least the idiots falling for their garbage - would accept the undermining of their rights is for a legitimate reason.

The media is used to tell them what to think and demonizes anybody and everything that disagrees with them.     In cases like Ukraine the brainwashed thinks that Ukraine is a democracy  - which the country definitely is not.   Because they  do not countenance opposition - they are  prepared to go to war when peace negotiations  are the way to go.   They have the support of the brainwashed  that would follow them without thinking for a half a minute and ask the question - WHY?    However, these are people whose minds have been so poisoned by propaganda they have become unable to think for themselves.   

              

     

SE
SebPro2,680 posts
23 Mar 2023, 14:29
#29
23 Mar 2023, 14:29#29

Mike,if people really and sincerely want the facts, one must explore and do research and discern from all angles and not accept anything. It requires research which requires work and better still travel...you have to go into the depths or else you remain in the shallows. Even history books contain bias.

When I was at school, our first history lesson contained the history of our school, then Zulu, Xhosa and Boer War. Then SA history, then Europe and Britain, a lot of it was bias.

Our school is old, started in March 1863.

There are many fallen soldiers on the Roll of Honour in the Victoria Hall from many wars.

What is unique is that during the outbreak of Boer War there were some Afrikaans/Boer boys there. The majority were English but before the Boer Boys left to fight for their cause, the English boys made an arrangement with their Boer friends...they arranged that the Boer boys wore a red band around their upper arm so they could identify them and not shoot them. The school colours are red, black and white with a rifle and assegai on the badge, the red stands for the bloodshed, the black for the Zulu and white for the British soldiers in the Zulu Wars.

Both pupils fell from opposing sides in Boer War and both are entered on the Roll of Honour.

Something you don't see today.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
23 Mar 2023, 14:38
#30
23 Mar 2023, 14:38#30

I can see as usual the usual culprits have zero understanding about what is going on in Ukraine.

I prefer to get my news from non Globalist sources and hence my amazing record.

Now Colonel McGregor, Scott Ritter and Redacted cover this war very well. 

Fist casualties.  Russia has lost about 30,000 men. Ukraine are close to 250,000 dead and around 400 hundred odd severely wounded. They are now conscripting boys and old men..

The Russian army is now some 700,000 strong and is building to 1.5 million. The expected attack by the Russians did not happen as the winter was mild and the ground did not freeze over as expected. Currently, the East of Ukraine can only be travelled by concrete roads. The 5 to 6 meters deep mud makes crossing the terrain impossible. By late May the ground starts to harden up and one would think the Russians will strike some time in June or even July.

When they do they will overwhelm the battered Ukrainian forces. The Ukrainian army has fought bravely but wasted their forces trying to stop the Russian taking Bakmut. The casualty rate is one Russian for 10 Ukrainian.( The expected life span for a new recruit in Bakmut is about 4 hours). Its that bad. This aligns very closely with Russian artillery superiority. The Russians can fire off some 59,000 shells per day and the Ukrainians 6000.

This is an absolute blood bath

There is really nothing that can now save Ukraine. It appears the war mongers in the USA are quite happy for the slaughter of Ukrainian troops to continue.

Meanwhile the Russians are now on a full war footing and have never been more powerful. The nightmare of Russia teaming up with China, which Trump wanted to prevent, appears to have happened. Worse still many countries and major countries at that are trading with Russia. Many are sick to death of Americans doing whatever they want and their perverse woke ideologies.

America under Trump's leadership was a blessing to both America and the world. the opposite is true under the illegitimate rule of Benedict Biden and his war mongering handlers. THIS WOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED UNDER TRUMP. WE ALL KNOW THAT MUCH.

Go Russia END THIS WAR AS FAST AS POSSIBLE.

SE
SebPro2,680 posts
23 Mar 2023, 15:24
#31
23 Mar 2023, 15:24#31

Yes Col. Doug MacGregor knows and understand the battle field well, has contacts high up in both Washington and Moscow and knows his history. He is a man of integrity and was competent as a tank commander in US Army. The type of man that demands respect, a no nonsense man. US needs real men like this. Intelligent and outspoken.

Yes, the Liberals hate him and those perverts with Woke and those with LGBTQ leanings. He does not mince words but calls a spade a spade.

Neo Cons and Industrial Military Complex is wicked scum, feels nothing for Ukrainians dying to satiate their lust for greed, control and power.

It's also disgusting how people show hated for Russians and take delight in their deaths...these cowards obviously never been in action and are sick internet trolls.

Don't worry God is in control and what you sow you reap later...nobody escapes that.

You can be sure of that...it all comes out eventually.

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
23 Mar 2023, 15:31
#32
23 Mar 2023, 15:31#32

Yes, McGregor - the homophobic, antisemetic misogynist - understands the battlefield really well . . . so well that he predicted this war would be done and dusted in a week!

LMAO!

Amazing that this bumbling pro-Russian fool still has any credibility . . . even if it is only with with Trumpanzees.

SE
SebPro2,680 posts
23 Mar 2023, 15:46
#33
23 Mar 2023, 15:46#33

Precisely, one of the cowards I was referring to...it cannot help himself...they, and his daisy- chain gang pop up everywhere.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Mar 2023, 16:28
#34
23 Mar 2023, 16:28#34

Rooinek please enlighten us all  about the following statement you made by providing proof  that the description is correct:-

Yes, McGregor - the homophobic, antisemetic misogynist - understands the battlefield really well . . . so well that he predicted this war would be done and dusted in a week!

Have Mc Gregor been prosecuted for the crimes you are claiming he is involved in?

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
24 Mar 2023, 11:19
#35
24 Mar 2023, 11:19#35

You come up with  "How do you know" and whenever "the rightwing media state something" you say I believe it on site - but the same questions can be asked of you. 

We can provide evidence to back up what we say. You have been asked in the past to do so but you never do, you just ignore that and repeat the same talking points.

You two came up with BS you came up with from the fake media - who for the past decade has never had a major story that was not based on lies.

Such an absurd claim. As I said before, I honestly can't tell if you're one of the most outrageous liars I've ever come across or simply lack the capacity to tell what a lie is. You're in no position to call anyone else or any organization a liar.

The problem is that whenever the lies are exposed you still find some excuse for what you wrote on site of which you have no proof anyway.

You never expose any lies, you just repeat nonsense conspiracy theories without backing them up with evidence.

What you write on site is just a repeat of what the media tells you what to believe and what not to believe.    At least I go to fact based information that  became available.

What I write on site is normally supported by evidence. There is a bit of logical reasoning to be done where you can't be certain one way or another, not everything will have evidence and you need to make a judgement based on what information you have. You have no concept of fact based information.. You go out of your way to find fringe new and media sources that push narratives that support your world view and then repeat them regardless of what evidence they have to support them.

The history of Ukraine is factual until 2014 by fact.  

LOL, yes the facts are the facts, although from your previous posts its clear you don't know what the facts are.

When you were confronted with the coup in 2014 - organized and funded by the USA and the consequent  appointment of USA appointees to run the Government of Ukraine confrrmed  by the Obama Assistant Secretary of State - you two ignore it.

Because there was no coup. The 2014 revolution was caused by the indigenous dissent of the Ukrainian people after the then then pro Russian President withdrew from signing an association agreement with the EU that had been worked on for over 7 years, after being pressured by Russia to do so. 

Obama's Assistant secretary of State did no such thing. If you referring to that leaked phone called in which she refers to "the guy, Yats (short for Yatsenuk)" she thought was best option for running Ukraine and yes its true that he would go on to become Ukraine's prime minister. Now I wonder why she thought he was the best choice to lead Ukraine. Might it have something to do with him being the leader of the opposition party? You know the person who was probably the most likely to win once Yanukovych had fled the country.

When it came to involvement of US  senor politicians in massive corruption in Ukraine you ignore it - but the info provided is factual and hushed up by the FBI.

We ignore this because it more of your endless conspiracy ramblings that you never provide evidence to support.

When Russia alleged that there was bio-labs doing dangerous research and lodged documents with the UN - you two said it was lies - yet the same by now Biden Deputy Secretary of State under oath in the Senate confirmed the existence of bio-labs - but came out with the BS that the research was not dangerous.

The Russian's where alleging the research conducted in those bio-labs could be potentially weaponized and used in bio terrorism, to which they provided no supporting evidence.

Why would Biden Deputy of Secretary of State need to confirm the existence of bio-labs when the labs where not a secret. They have been known about for decades being ex-Soviet labs. All bio-lab work is inherently dangerous, be it for civilian or military purposes and the research conducted in bio-labs in Ukraine was no more dangerous than any other civilian bio-lab around the world.

If that is a fact why is the US  Government worried about the pathogens falling in the hands of the Russians and why in one lab that was in fact captured by the Russians did they find an official US Government instruction that if the pathogens cannot be removed and safe-guarded the pathogens must be destroyed?

And the Russian claim is to be taken on face value?. Even if true, maybe the US just considered it safer to destroy the pathogens on site then attempt to move them through a country that was now at war.

 By the way one question to you.   Have you got any evidence supporting your claims that the objective of  the Russian Government to conquer  Ukraine and make it part of some imaginary empire?   If you do please provide the necessary evidence supporting that one. 

Yes they invaded Ukraine and tried to size Kyiv. It was a clear attempt to topple the Ukrainian government.

And to qoute former Russian President Dmitry Medvedev from just yesterday.

"Honestly speaking, Ukraine is part of Russia, But due to geopolitical reasons and the course of history, we had tolerated that we were living in separate quarters and had been forced to acknowledge those invented borders for a long time.""


RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
24 Mar 2023, 11:24
#36
24 Mar 2023, 11:24#36
"Have Mc Gregor been prosecuted for the crimes you are claiming he is involved in?"
What crimes did I say he was involved in, dumbo? Just answer the question for once . . . and once will be just fine thanks.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
24 Mar 2023, 12:11
#37
24 Mar 2023, 12:11#37

My word old STAVASS really went off like the raving lunatic he is. He once again has no idea what he is talking about 

STAVASS rather  than making a prize ass of yourself on the board you should be joining the protests by the Irish against the invasion of your country. You are such a weak kneed noodle you are probably handing your home over to the INVADERS.LOL 

The fact is in 2014 the CIA and under Secretary of STATE Victoria Nuland ORGANISED a coup to take out the pro Russian President of Ukraine. Since then Nato has been building the  Ukraine army with the idea of retaking Crimea. 

Do a little real search DUMBASS  and you might learn something

I can't be expected to spoon feed clowns like you about everything. 


BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
24 Mar 2023, 12:19
#38
24 Mar 2023, 12:19#38

Colonel McGregor has a Phd and is clearly a sane, thinking man with a vast knowledge of military affairs and geo politics.  Not a man half bakes like poor Rooitwit would be able to understand.

Hope what Rooitwit says about McGregor being homophobic is true. All genuine men are homophobic. The whole thing makes me want to vomit. 

Doubtless my comments will have ou Rooitwit or should it be pink twit jumping up and down in his tight pink tights. 

 Bye the way pinktwits hero Zelensky likes black shiny leather tights and stilleto heels. No wonder pinktwit loves this pervert. Hahahahahaha birds of a feather. 

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
24 Mar 2023, 14:12
#39
24 Mar 2023, 14:12#39
Ou Maaik can't answer the simple question. Not sure if it's stupidity or cowardice but it's one of the two.
Oh well, you Puitin apologists will be glad to know you have Julius Malema in your corner. Read here. No big surprise that a hater like Julius is on the same page as you lot.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Mar 2023, 14:39
#40
24 Mar 2023, 14:39#40

Fuckwit

You said he is a  "Yes, McGregor - the homophobic, antisemetic misogynist - understands the battlefield really well . . . so well that he predicted this war would be done and dusted in a week!"

You can perhaps explain how that is proven and I assumed the only real proof would be any charges for criminality based on homophobia,  anti Semetic and misonynis can best be proved by him committing a crime associated with the three issues you mentioned.

Now lets get back to the question - what proof have you got of any claims you made about Mc Gregor.   If you cannot do that one must assume that you are just writing shit again on site.   Not that you ever write anything truthful on site.    

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