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Bok side

Started by Saffolk 238 REPLIES5,831 VIEWS· 24 Sept 2024, 13:20
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DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
27 Sept 2024, 19:56
#121
27 Sept 2024, 19:56#121

Laerskool snot dié.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
27 Sept 2024, 19:58
#122
27 Sept 2024, 19:58#122
Listen here DA you rugby ignorant fuckwit don’t insult rugby followers telling us Mostert is more effective attacking rucks (whatever that is) than Eben Fuck off - telling me there is evidence of this is vastly different to actual material evidence especially coming from an ignorant rugby prick like you Plum do me a favour and save all your chest beating crap about providing me with evidence of anything - I’m still waiting for evidence of Mostert’s physical dominance in that clip - Moz’s attempt was insulting much like you telling everyone that only I never rated powder puff - stop fabricating shit it’s embarrassing
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
27 Sept 2024, 20:02
#123
27 Sept 2024, 20:02#123

"Listen here DA you rugby ignorant fuckwit don’t insult rugby followers telling us Mostert is more effective attacking rucks (whatever that is) than Eben"

Lol, I m no Mostert basher, but Ebenb is baas and Mossie has fckall on him ...not even close.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
27 Sept 2024, 20:07
#124
27 Sept 2024, 20:07#124
Say no more Draad - some ignorant prick insulting Eben - fuck me Eben with one leg in plaster and his hands tied behind his back would be more effective hitting a ruck (or should I say attacking it(sic)) than powder puff
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
27 Sept 2024, 21:44
#125
27 Sept 2024, 21:44#125
"Lol, I m no Mostert basher, but Ebenb is baas and Mossie has fckall on him ...not even close." Did DA say Mostert is over all "better" than Eben? No...I don't think he did. I don't think anybody here has ever said that. But, there are elements of the game in which Mostert does more and is better. Who makes more tackles? Is more tackles better than less tackles? One last time...it's called a "pack" for a reason. Whahaha Dave doesn't know what Ruck efficiency is. Without even looking it up, surely the word efficiency is rather self explanatory?
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
27 Sept 2024, 21:58
#126
27 Sept 2024, 21:58#126
Are you telling me fucking DA knows what ruck efficiency is? But let’s leave that - yes Mostert makes more tackles than Eben whoop, whoop - the real measure of a test lock is making process tackles is it? Wow Just a pity old powder puff has never made a dominant tackle in his career unless of course he tackled Faf in a training run?
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
30 Sept 2024, 07:31
#127
30 Sept 2024, 07:31#127

"Lol, I m no Mostert basher, but Eben is baas and Mossie has fckall on him ...not even close."

Where did I even remotely say that Mostert was a better player than Eben?

In fact, the very article that I quoted in my post was referring to Eben possibly being the best ever lock of his generation....so where do you suck that from?

Don't escalate one very simple compliment to Mostert, to me now attributing him to being a better player than Eben, because I didn't even come close to saying that..... however in one specific metric, regarding the game of Rugby, Mostert seems to be more effecient at it than Eben is..... it's just that fucking simple..... but ole Davey boy just can't accept that he got it wrong and that he didn't know this......his ego just won't allow him.

"Are you telling me fucking DA knows what ruck efficiency is?"

Damn straight I do...... I have already openly admitted a few times that your knowledge of the game is better than mine, by far......why would I ever dispute that...... but you just can't ever admit when you get things wrong....much like you just recently stated that the Boks were never going to give the Argies a hiding this past weekend.....you got that wrong as well.... so live with it.

Grow up you idiot...... 

I don't need to know all the rugby laws intimately to be able to make a post or opinion about a player or the game.

It's quite similar to me not having to know you personally, to know that you are a twat.

PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
30 Sept 2024, 07:40
#128
30 Sept 2024, 07:40#128

DA, it is very hard to have nuanced discussions on this board because, with the exception of 3 or 4 posters, most guys can only argue in knee jerk extremes. State a simple fact like "Mostert competes well at the breakdowns" and the response you get is something to the effect of "so you're arguing Mostert's age is not a problem but that of other players are, so you're saying he is more physical than Etzebeth, he missed a tackle in 2019 so he sucks, there are 20 locks better than him, he would never have played if Lood was fit, bla bla bla".

Rather unfortunate

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
30 Sept 2024, 08:24
#129
30 Sept 2024, 08:24#129

Yeah, I get you Pakie ......

My one small single compliment, on just one very specific aspect of Mostert's game, has now been spun around, turned upside down, and thrown sidewa ys.... and then spat back out in a very misconstrued way, to "DA says that Franco Mostert is a far better player than Eben Etzebeth"

What a crock of shyte.

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
30 Sept 2024, 09:59
#130
30 Sept 2024, 09:59#130

"Listen here DA you rugby ignorant fuckwit don’t insult rugby followers telling us Mostert is more effective attacking rucks (whatever that is) than Eben"

Well ..... duh you moron....apparently he is

The only thing I insulted here was my own take on your actual legitimate level of intelligence.

Live with it you monumentally stupid fucktard

And for the record Davey boy... I said Mostert was more efficient than Eben, not more effective like you say

Effective means producing a desired result that is wanted

Efficient is the capability of producing the desired result without wasting materials, time, energy...which is apparently what Mostert does better than Eben..... whilst Eben could very well possibly be more effective...

So......learn to read properly whilst you are out and about trying to find a personality you little stupid twat

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
30 Sept 2024, 11:12
#131
30 Sept 2024, 11:12#131

"Effective means producing a desired result that is wanted

Efficient is the capability of producing the desired result without wasting materials, time, energy...which is apparently what Mostert does better than Eben..... whilst Eben could very well possibly be more effective..."

How do you measure effective and efficient in this context?

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Sept 2024, 11:40
#132
30 Sept 2024, 11:40#132
Draad it confirms good old ignorant DA has no fucking clue what he is talking about It’s great when a dumb ignorant twat comes on here professing rugby wisdom only to be left looking like the idiot he is DA do us a favour and stick to some other sport - you are an embarrassment Here is a fact for you to suck up - there is not one single facet of play where Mostert is better than Eben - it’s not even close He might make more tackles a game - but that is not the mark of a lock - maybe a flanker or centre but not a bloody lock But even that fact is beyond you
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
30 Sept 2024, 12:23
#133
30 Sept 2024, 12:23#133
Allow me to try; Eben Effective: Better at producing the desired outcome through the application of raw strength to overwhelm the opposition and secure the ball. The prime focus here would be on getting the job done. Contributes less often at rucks but makes a big impact when he does. Mostert Efficient: Better at contributing more often and ensures that the baseline requirement is covered, filling the gaps. Contributes more often and wastes less energy on big plays. The prime focus would be on timing contributions through reading the game and ensuring that he is there when nobody else is. To me, the ideal lock paring would balance each other out. Eben is as effective a lock as you'll find anywhere. And Mostert is as efficient a lock as you'll ever see. 2 x Eben means more big plays but also increases the load on the rest of the pack since they need to make more tackles and visit rucks more often. 2 x Mostert's means less big momentum shifting plays resulting in less rallying moments that swing periods of the game in his side's advantage. Dave claims it's not a locks job to make bunch of tackles but let's try and put in chronological order who is expected to make the most tackles in the pack 1. Open side 2. Blind side 3. Eight 4. Locks(4 and 5) 5. Hooker 6. Loose head 7. Tight head Now let's look at the tackles counts of the Duane and Kolisi...over the last 5 years. Duane was never really high on the tackle count. Look it up. He had some high counts in the WC but was generally on or below average in terms of his tackle count. Kolisi may have a day here and there where he makes a bunch of tackles, but his tackle count is generally not very high either. Now before we hear that I'm saying Kolisi and Duane suck...that's not what I said. I'm looking only at their tackle counts. And you should too...don't take my word for it. Go and look at the numbers. And when you do that, you will see that MOSTERT, has been picking up the slack for years. An Eight is expected to make roughly 10-12 tackles per game. But over the last well ages...the Boks have been a defensive team...look at the WC stats for reference. Meaning that even if Duane hits 12 per game, he is still below average in terms of an 8 in the Boks side. Kolisi...same story. Now, go and do some homework and have a look at Eben's tackle count. Now have a look at the average tackle count for the Boks over the last 5 years. You notice it is higher than most teams. They are a defensive team. This means that each player has to make more tackles, on average, than a player in the same position in another team. Don't take my word for ANY of this. Go and look it up. So you realise that while being a defensive side, 4 out of the top five players required to make the most tackles in the pack are actually below proportional par in terms of the amount of tackles they make. And then we have Dave saying that a lock's job is not to make tackles. ...when actually, in the Bok side, with the way the Boks have historically chosen to play, a lock with a high tackle count is GOLD. And Mostert brought that gold in abundance. The perfect foil. In fact, such a perfect foil that Rassie has looked for an outright replacement for Mostert in Nortje. I'm not expecting Dave to provide any sort of rational argument to this. Dave allow me to respond for you;
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
30 Sept 2024, 12:49
#134
30 Sept 2024, 12:49#134

Enjoying the lectures, Dave?

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Sept 2024, 13:00
#135
30 Sept 2024, 13:00#135
Excellent analysis Plum…let’s have more of that….insights. Actually I’m willing to bet for most teams the ‘mobile’ lock is higher than at least two of the  loosies in the tackle count. 
Why? Because he or she or they ( a concession to Stav) is often assigned the close to the breakdown tackle role. That role is played for the Boks by 2 mobile locks, Dud Toit and the peerless Mostert.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Sept 2024, 13:01
#136
30 Sept 2024, 13:01#136
Plum I’ll keep it short - which other 5 in world rugby makes as many process tackles as Mostert does? The answer is none The reason being is that locks are traditionally expected to contribute physically, the 4 more than the 5 It’s one of their primary functions - along with taking line outs and kick offs, it’s definitely not to make process tackles - that function is a secondary one. So in Mostert we have him running around all game making loads of process tackles but failing to contribute physically. There is very little effectiveness or efficiency at a breakdown, ruck or maul or in the scrum if you are unable to really impose yourself physically So my argument against Mostert is this- Id much rather have a physically imposing player at 5 like RG, Lood, Ruben v Heerden, Cobus Wiese, JD Schickerling or JF v Heerden doing all their primary functions effectively and contributing effectively with their secondary functions like making process tackles than having a Mostert on board who’s contributions have the primary and secondary functions reversed My biggest issue with Mostert is that given he lacks physicality I’d expect him to offset that with a skill set that sees him contributing positively with ball in hand, being a great link player, being a smart player running great lines etc - he is none of that So he is physically challenged and not a great rugby player. His forte is making 15 tackles a game, never dominant ones. I’ll say it one more time - it’s not the job of a 5 to make 15 tackles as game Yes Rassie keeps selecting him when Lood is injured and for me it’s a huge mistake for the reasons stated above Rassie is obviously ok with all that heart and energy he gives because there is enough physicality around him to get away with it. My argument against that is that he is selling the Bok pack short with this approach and that with a physical 5 we would be even more physically dominant as a unit
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Sept 2024, 13:24
#137
30 Sept 2024, 13:24#137

At the WC…..Dud Toit, Mostert and Rowlands were among the top 10 tacklers….Itoje was 11th.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Sept 2024, 13:34
#138
30 Sept 2024, 13:34#138
du Toit was not playing lock and all three perform their primary functions well - they all contribute physically My problem with Mostert is that is his only real positive contribution along with taking his line out ball and kick offs (prerequisites for all locks) I’d rather have a physical 5 that contributes physically and makes 5 less process tackles a game than Mostert - that is a no brainer and non negotiable for me. Mostert is not a good enough all round player to excuse his lack of grunt. He works hard I give him that but it’s never eye catching stuff. There is working hard and working productively - a locks productivity is measured primarily in grunt just like a props - everything else is secondary bar line out and kick off takes For me there is absolutely no argument in favour of a physically inferior lock playing for the Boks
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
30 Sept 2024, 14:27
#139
30 Sept 2024, 14:27#139

"It’s great when a dumb ignorant twat comes on here professing rugby wisdom only to be left looking like the idiot he is"

LMAO

You got shown up for the idiotic doos that you are .... lol, even after I provided the stats for you.

You could have just said, Oh, I didn't realise that .... but nah, Davey boy has to always consistently be correct and everyone else on here is stupid if they don't agree with Davey boy....all the time..... which is the sign of a very stupid and arrogant individual.

"DA do us a favour and stick to some other sport - you are an embarrassment"

For a guy who knows far far less about the game than you do, you sure made yourself look like a complete and utter twat, and a doos to boot....

Lol, it was funny handing it to you on a platter, because as usual, your enormous ego got in the way of some common sense and you just stumbled straight into it.

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
30 Sept 2024, 14:34
#140
30 Sept 2024, 14:34#140

Brilliant post Plum.....

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Sept 2024, 14:58
#141
30 Sept 2024, 14:58#141
Where did you show me up you fucking idiot? Self proclamation by a rugby ignoramus carries weight in your eyes does it Fuck me little man get a bloody grip There is no stat in the world that would ever have powder puff being more efficient or effective than Mostert at a ruck but you are too fucking stupid to comprehend that fact Shown me up bwaaahaaaa
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
30 Sept 2024, 15:14
#142
30 Sept 2024, 15:14#142

Relax Davey Boy.... go sell another ice cream

"Self proclamation by a rugby ignoramus carries weight in your eyes does it"

Well, if the shoe fits....

I actually prefer the in depth game analysis from others on this board who actually are quite level headed and can also see both sides of any equation or debate about any player..... and not just their own one eyed arrogant view or perspective of certain players like you always have and always will do.

"There is no stat in the world that would ever have powder puff being more efficient or effective than Mostert at a ruck but you are too fucking stupid to comprehend that fact"

Oh, we all know that already..... it doesn't matter who the stats come from, or where they come from .........Davey boy is always right.

You silly little tit you ...

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Sept 2024, 15:17
#143
30 Sept 2024, 15:17#143
Where did you show me up, where are those stats you dumbfuck? Your self proclamation means fuck all to me
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Sept 2024, 15:18
#144
30 Sept 2024, 15:18#144
Here’s what Harrassmiss gets that you don’t. We already have plenty of grunt and with Dud Toit on the flank we add to that. What we could lack is ball carrying, ball protection, and defensive mobility. Mostert fills in two of those three gaps. Ball carrying is still a weakness. Harrassmiss is solving for a blend of attributes. If we are struggling in the scrums or mauls your argument may have some validity. Clearly we aren’t.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Sept 2024, 15:36
#145
30 Sept 2024, 15:36#145

I find it hard to follow a threat where  BS reign supreme.   Lets get it straight what Mostert is  - he is just not physical enough as  lock and already 33 years of age and defintely NOT irreplacable, 

Fact is the same members promoting Mostert are always on the attack against Du Toit - who performs while playing at lock better than Mostert - but in fact is ten times a better player - either at lock or at 7 than Mostert was and can ever be.   

The BS ters oane about Du Toit's age - but wants Mostert to continue playing for the Springboks, The problem is that some members just refuse t look at he contributors in th game - like Du Toit and De Allende made to performnces.   Take for instances the situation as to tries scored iro of Mostert and Du Toit:-

Mostert - tests played  72   tries scored  3

Du Toit - tests played   84   tries scored  11

Du Toit snce 2018 often played at lock as well, while Meyer prefers im as a 7.   Du Toit is according t Mozart worthless and referred to as "Dud" - while Mostert gets praise song after praise song based normally on BS.

I agree with Dave - we need a better  lock than Mostert in the team - but most emmbers spout shit about played and prtend they are correct,   Take the freference as to the try-scoring record of  Du Toit - where he quote him as having scored 3 ties - whie Du Toit scored 6 - while Du Toit in act scored  11/

Fact is Du Toit is one of the best players in the world - while Mostert is not anywhere near that level.

As a matter of fact I think that Mostert had his career and it is now time to replace him - end of story. 

                                    ..      

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Sept 2024, 15:39
#146
30 Sept 2024, 15:39#146
As I said I’d prefer to have more grunt at 5 as you need grunt at 7 anyway and have our physical 5 make 5 less process tackles than Mostert does a game Mostert is not a good enough player to merit keeping him there to add value in other areas of the game given his lack of physicality If Rassie had a 100% winning record I’d have to concede he was correct in selecting Mostert over a more physical lock I’m guessing Rassie does know that anyway as you correctly pointed out that Rassie at the start of his tenure selected Mostert at 5, but then ditched him for the more physical Lood up to the point Lood got injured The biggest mystery to me is that when Lood got injured he resorted back to Mostert instead of selecting RG who is even better than Lood. Lood is great but RG is next level That call by Rassie made absolutely no sense at all. RG should have partnered Eben in the WC and the Irish series We might have achieved more pack dominance against Ireland than we did had RG started ahead of powder puff but that opportunity was missed by Rassie
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
30 Sept 2024, 16:01
#147
30 Sept 2024, 16:01#147

So even Rassie is not as clever as little Dave..... who woulda thought.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Sept 2024, 17:53
#148
30 Sept 2024, 17:53#148
Rassie is certainly not perfect, selecting Mostert is a clear example of that Not when you have RG, Ruben v Heerden, Ruan Vermaak, JD Schickerling and Cobus Wiese available Rassie definitely has a blind spot when it comes to locks look no further than Mostert, Orie, Nortje and Nico Janse v Rensburg
MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
30 Sept 2024, 19:04
#149
30 Sept 2024, 19:04#149
Well Rassies blind spot is not as bad as yours. And Jd 116 Kg. Vermaak 118 Kg and Wiese 116 Kg is Not your usual types? You prefer them over 125 Kg…bigger is definitely not always better. Just look at our bigger locks like RG, Lood , they are mostly injured. It’s funny how the bigger lock are mostly injury prone….Paul Willemse the now French man is mostly injured or Will Skelton. That is why all top outfits also have a lighter more durable lock, that of course performs. Mostert and Nortje fits into that Bracket.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Sept 2024, 20:09
#150
30 Sept 2024, 20:09#150
Try fucking wake up to reality JF v Heerden is 121kg, Ruan Vermaak is 125kg, Ruben v Heerden is 121kg, Cobus Wiese is 121kg, JD is 121kg You just need to look at these players to realise they are bigger than powder puff Do me a favour in future don’t quote players weights etc as you always fuck them up
MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
30 Sept 2024, 20:28
#151
30 Sept 2024, 20:28#151
Proof these weights you are lying!! On the bulls website, go check Wiese is 116Kg and Vermaak is 118Kg Lions website.Stormers website Jd Schickerling 116Kg!! Fuck you i will quote what I want you pompous ass Narcissistic fool….but honestly a person can still somehow except that you a empty coward loud mouth fool, but lying is just chicken shit!!
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Sept 2024, 20:45
#152
30 Sept 2024, 20:45#152
Listen here you stupid ignorant prick Here is a hint Try this - for instance Type in ‘ Ruben van Heerden 121kg’ and see what happens - try that with all my quotes and see what happens Fuck me one only has to look at these players to realise they weight 120kg plus What fucking world do you live in - are you really this fucking stupid Just look at a player like Grobelaar for the Sharks - in the match against Connacht they said he weighed 124kg Do you honestly think he weighs more than the likes of Wiese, Vermaak etc Wake the fuck up you stupid idiot Your stupidity bores me
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Sept 2024, 20:51
#153
30 Sept 2024, 20:51#153
Sorry I got Cobus Wiese wrong he is 125kg makes sense he is a unit - square of a man
MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
30 Sept 2024, 21:01
#154
30 Sept 2024, 21:01#154
Just shut up you liar…we don’t live in a fantasy world where you can make up your own weights?? WTF is wrong with you?! Why the fuck will the franchise’s lie about these players weight? Makes no sense… So besides being this over bearing know it all , you can weigh people exactly, by just looking at them? Fuck me Dave you are desperate to always be right, but sadly you mostly just not :) you are a fucking liar just like your bud buddies. Whatever you low life liar, you not worth it!
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Sept 2024, 21:15
#155
30 Sept 2024, 21:15#155
Ah so you are clearly too fucking scared to Google my weights now are you? You pathetic little prick I know for a fact the provincial websites have the wrong weights Many years ago I used to always look up and pay attention to players profiles - I still do to a degree. Friends used to always laugh at me because I could quote every provincial players weight and age Anyway I remember contacting the Sharks on their website once telling them that some of their profile details were completely wrong - they responded to me apologising and corrected the profiles I found it astounding that people associated with the provinces website did not take the trouble to find out the correct player details Anyway dumbfuck like I said use your fucking eyes in future Does Cobus Wiese look like he weighs 116kg’s you moron. Are you really this thick? Does he look like he weighs less than Andre Esterhuizen huh? Does he look smaller than his brother who is 120kg huh Fucking idiot Here is a little hint for the future don’t question me when it comes to players weights as I’ll chew you up and spit you out
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Sept 2024, 21:17
#156
30 Sept 2024, 21:17#156

Updated:

Jasper Wiese

Full names: Jasper van der WesthuizenDate of birth: 21 Oct 1995Place of birth: UpingtonSchool: UpingtonSpringbok no: 918Springbok debut province: Leicester TigersPhysical: 1.90m, 110.0kgCurrent age: 28Test summary: Tests: 31 Tries: 1First Test: 2 Jul 2021 Age 25 - Reserve against Georgia at Loftus Versfeld, PretoriaLast Test: 28 Sep 2024 Age 28 - Eighthman against Argentina at Mbombela Stadium, Nelspruit
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Sept 2024, 21:21
#157
30 Sept 2024, 21:21#157
Moz trust you to fuck it up we are not talking Jasper But here you go https://all.rugby/player/jasper-wiese
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Sept 2024, 21:25
#158
30 Sept 2024, 21:25#158

So what…I’m talking Jasper. You really need to be more flexible Dave.

MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
30 Sept 2024, 21:27
#159
30 Sept 2024, 21:27#159
Cobus Wiese 2nd Jun 1997 1.99m/116kg Blindside Flanker . Cobus Wiese is a South African born flanker who represented Griquas at youth level. He has since gone through the ranks at Western Province and was called into the South African U20 squad. Wiese provides an extra option at the line-out as he stands just short of 2 metres tall and weight 116 kg. Wiese's older brother Jasper represents the Cheetahs. In 2017 he was selected as part of the Stormers Super Rugby squad and made his debut off the bench against the Sunwolves and started the Stormers next match against the Cheetahs. Wiese made 4 Super Rugby matches in 2017 and was included in the Stormers 2018 Super Rugby squad. In July 2018, he was included in Springboks squad for the Rugby Championship. Following the disrupted Super Rugby season in 2020 he signed for Sale Sharks in the Premiership // ultimaterugby.com
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Sept 2024, 21:30
#160
30 Sept 2024, 21:30#160
Moz that made me laugh very loudly But Jasper is 120kg Moz - get your facts right :)
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