How our Coaches destroy SA Rugby - Duhan van der Merwe

 Mozart
The Du Plessis brothers signed with Montpellier before the club contracted White and there were repeated  newspaper reports that they were looking for means to get out of the Montpellier contracts after the White contract was announced.   In the end they stayed with Montpellier.
Fat Fransie is White's lapdog.   The other players had never been really associated with White and were not from the  Sharks.  
Stop talking rubbish and explain why the Sharks fired White after less than a year as coach.  

Jake White was fired for 2 reasons
1. Conflict with players, the assistant coaches, the bus driver, and just about everyone else. 
2. The Sharks also like to have a running brand of rugby. Jake White often kills the game like a python by stopping the other team playing.- and his own team.
His results however cannot be in questioned.  Other than a dip in form towards the end of the season- the Sharks were the log leaders for most of the season. 

So White announced on Dec 30 2014 he was going to Montpellier. On June the 9th 2015 the Sharks confirmed Jannie and Bis were going to Montpellier......Tokkie you are a calamity and a bore.

So White announced on Dec 30 2014 he was going to Montpellier. On June the 9th 2015 the Sharks confirmed Jannie and Bis were going to Montpellier......Tokkie you are a calamity and a bore.

 Mozart
You are a calamity and a bore.   The Du Plessis Brothers contract was signed BEFORE the contract of White was signed - why would the brothers have signed after the news on the White contract was signed knowing full well that the brothers intensely dislike White?   Why did they according to a number of newspaper reports desperately tried to find another club who would take both of them?
There was repeated bust-ups between White's lapdog and the brothers while Jake coached the Sharks and in one game Bismarck had such a bust up on the field with Fat Fransie that he was not selected for the next match - all this was in the newspapers as well.  
Finally - you have not answered my question - why was White effectively fired by the Sharks?     Why was his contract with Montpellier not renewed if he was such a wonderful coach with excellent human relations to boot?     

So you are saying the du Plessis brothers signed before White's announcement Dec 30 2014....but it was only announced by the Sharks June 9th 2015?

So I guess all these posts where you told us how the players at the Sharks despised Jake are all nonsense....a few of the guys he didn't pick may have agitated after he left. But the senior players followed him to Montpellier with no qualms. Another piece of oft mentioned BS squashed.

 Once Mike has the bone between his jaws he will not let go. The biggest of those Bones is JW.

 Mozart
Your dates are totally wrong.   White signed the contract on 31 December 2014 halfway through the tournaments for the 2014-2015 season and his contract was to end after the 2016-17 season.   
The Du Plessis signings were much earlier - but only announced after the 2015 Super Rugby Season.   It was widely reported in the newspaper at the time that after the brothers found out about the White signing they tried to get out of the contract with Montpellier.  
You may believe all the BS you normally write on the site - but one of the main reasons for White's firing was that the players whose contracts with the Sharks lapsed at the end of 2014 refused to re-sign if White remained as coach.   Not a few players who were not selected - but all the players whose contracts were up for renewal.
       

Rubbish....there is no way they signed and it was kept quiet for 6 months. You are just lying again. A complete fabrication simply made up to support your story line.

 It was kept quiet because it was not to be released before the end of the 2015 Super Rugby season for 2015.   According to newspaper reports the signing was in fact in September 2014 and the brothers tried to get out of the agreement when they found out about White going to Montpellier.   The brothers would not play for separate  clubs and they could not find one which would take both of them.   So they did remain on contract with Montpellier.
If it was indeed a fabrication - then why was it reported widely in the local media?   
But why do you refuse to answer the question about why White was fired by the Sharks and why Montpellier did not renew his contract?   Funny how the two separate entities got rid of White without according to you any reason whatsoever.       

Produce any newspaper article that shows the du Plessis brothers were contractually committed to Montpellier before Jake was appointed coach.

 Ok - lets start with newspaper reports:-
Mercury - 30 September 2014
"The sudden departure of Jake White as Sharks director of rugby has led to informed sources confirming there was growing discord between White and his back-room staff as well as with the players."
"White’s allegedly dictatorial coaching style won him few friends in the Shark Tank and it has been agreed that he will step down after just one year in the job. He has already returned to his home in Cape Town."
Beeld
"According to Beeld, senior players saw White as a school principal who dealt with them as though they were his pupils."
The most senior players in the Sharks team were the Du Plessis Brothers and Fat Fransie - so who was unhappy - the Du Plessis Brothers or White's Lapdog.
The Mercury 
"It is well-documented that the brothers’ relationship with White was not the best and according to The Mercury, they wanted to get out of their commitment with Montpellier (a deposit of €150 000 per player had reportedly been paid to them) once they heard White had become coach of the French club."
Well-documented apparently does not count with you.   Does that sound like the contract between the Du Plessis' and Montpellier was signed before or after Jake White signed with Montpellier?   And does it sound like they did not try to get out of the contract even though 150 000 Euro was paid to each of them already by Montpellier at the time of signing before they heard about White's  appointment.
Now dream on and try and read up before you make statements like the above.     

Here are the facts: . “We heard through the grape vine that there was discussion between the Du Plessis’s and Montpellier a month before Jake became the Montpellier coach, but I am not going to allege in the media that this was outside the window in which it should have taken place,” Smit said. “We were prepared to increase our off but we never had a response. “We then offered them a new figure in March, knowing that we would only have them for about nine games of the Super Rugby season, and we were talking about another R1-million per player. “That was also declined,” Smit continued. “Then the South African Rugby Union came to the party, offering a three-year-deal, and added financial value to the offer. The brothers did not accept. We then this week made a final offer that would take them to the highest salary scale in the country, but this has been declined.” . The Sharks were still negotiating an alternative with the Du Plessis brothers in March, as was the South African Rugby Union. Obviously they knew the commitment wasn't contractually binding. But the du Plessis brothers obviously didn't dislike Jake enough to take the Sharks three year contracts with enhanced terms rather than their richer Euro contracts with Montpellier. . And that's not from anonymous bullshyte sources pushing their anti Jake agenda. It's a direct quote from Smit....on the record. . So let me give you your own advice, read up before you make stupid statements.........schplottttttt!

 What useless piece of junk we have here - what was not said by Smit was that the negotiations allowed for the payment of 150 000 Euro to the brothers and took place before Jake White signed with Montpellier.
Now suddenly the reasons for White leaving the Sharks are ignored - wonder why?  
This is impossible with a closed brain who cannot understand anything if it does not tie in with his own version.  
But lets get back to what the original statement was. This was Mozart's comments on the issue:-
"So I guess all these posts where you told us how the players at the Sharks despised Jake are all nonsense....a few of the guys he didn't pick may have agitated after he left. But the senior players followed him to Montpellier with no qualms. Another piece of oft mentioned BS squashed."
The quoted articles indicated a number of things that shows the above up as drivel:-
*    There was wider player discontent than Mozart wants us to believe.*    Even John Smit said the negotiations between the Du Plessis brothers took plac before White signed the contract with Montpellier.*    Smit did not mention the 150 000 Euro paid to each of the brothers and neither the issue that the brothers tried to get out of the contract.
So schplottttt goes the closed brain once again.   He was wrong in everything he wrote as quoted and is once again trying to prove otherwise,        

 
Jakw White took up office at Montpellier in January 2015.

The Du Plessis brothers joined the team in June of the same year ... that's 6 months later.

Puzzling.

Why would Jake invite the Du Plessis brothers over if there were issues between them?

Why would the brothers willingly accept Jake's invite if tensions were high?

Something is amiss here.

Could it be another bit of conjured horseshyte from Comrade?

I wonder? It's all he dishes up these days.

 On a side note. I was listening to Du Preez talk about the Sharks and I have to say that I'm impressed by him. Seems to have a cool head and sounds like he doesn't suffer fools lightly. Was quite harsh about small momentum breaking errors and finishing.
Will be interesting to see how the Sharks get on over the rest of the season.
Jake White is our very own Jose Mourinho. Gets everyone's feathers messed up but gets the job done. FFS guys, he won us a WC. Can we try to give some credit where it's due. It's seems like we constantly try to disprove the successes our guys have. 
Exactly where did Jake White's Sharks finish their SR season? I stand to be corrected but didn't they win the SA conference that year and only just miss a play off spot? Far better than any other SA team? I somehow remember that the Stormers may have caught them up towards the end of the season. Regardless, it was not nearly the trainsmas h Mike makes it out to be.
How did Jake's Brumbies do?
How has his French club done?
Far as I can tell, they guy is probably our best coach.
Were Jake at the Stormers or the Bulls, would they be having the respective seasons that they are? Obviously not. Where Jake the Bok coach, would we have won only one in three games last year. No. 
All this talk about how unfit our teams are these days and how about our rugby amounts more and more to gym culture than anything else and suddenly we have to re-look at why Jake didn't get on with the players/egos at times. 
My feeling is that once we rid ourselves of our macho attitude toward successful people we'll probably do a lot better.
We buy bullcrap too easily and discard evidence in favour of popular oponion. We'd make a wonderful country, were this the dark ages. Shameful really. 

 CC
It is not horseshyte.  It was clearly discussed in the news items about.  Mozart was so illogical to publish an article which indicated that even John Smit that the discussions between Montpellier and a payment of !50 000 to the brothers before White signs a contract with Montpellier.
The brothers tried to get out of the contract after White signed by trying to get employment at another club where they could go jointly.   Read the newspaper article mentioned.    They could not find one and then went to Montpellier. If it was all horseshyte then why did the Sharks effectively fired White?  

 JW's results speak for themselves but it's not suffice to convince those who are biased.
There 's some on here who are on the same page as SARU when it comes to JW.

 
Please provide the link to this article, Comrade.

I would like to read it for myself before I swallow your conjured horseshyte.

Thanks.

 

 
Yes Plum ... he deserves credit for what he's achieved.

He may be a giant sized pr!ck ... but it's not his personality that we're after. It's what he can do on a rugby field.

That in the end is all that counts.

Besides, we need a no nonsense disciplinarian type who won't be pushed around.

We have already seen what happens when spineless weeds are placed in charge.

 Plum
Sorry to differ from you here.    White is a good coach in some respects - backline play is not his forte and that has been proven in the past.   In the 2007 WC Coetzee - who was even less of a backline expert - was such a disaster that White got Eddie Jones over to cover that aspect of play and in one interview the players said they learnt things that they were never coached about in their playing careers.   At the Brumbies case the backline coach was Larkham and in his case White actually did listen to him.
That is strange - but during his whole career White acted as if he was a school principal and his backroom staff and players were school kids.   His attitude always was dictatorial and his human relations consequently not accepted by both staff and players for any length of time.    That became a major problem for the Sharks and also played a role at Montpellier.    Hence his departure from those two.  
I am afraid he has spoilt his copybook in SA and it is very unlikely that any franchise in SA will contract him again.       

 Mike I don't care if he knows little or nothing about backline play. He got Jones in didn't he? And it worked. 
By your reasoning, a coach should be excellent on all counts and not need assistance in any aspect of the game. That's ridiculous. A big part of what sets any good professional in any industry apart is knowing their limitations and then understanding who the correct people are to fill those gaps. Apparently exactly what Jake White manages to do. So where's the problem?
Still, do remind me of the Sharks season under White? How did it play out and were did they finish relative to the other SA Franchises?

"Besides, we need a no nonsense disciplinarian type who won't be pushed around."

Klown, are you suggesting we need a coach who will refuse to implement race-based selections? Is that what you mean when say someone who won't be "pushed around"?

If so, get real. You may as well wish to find pixies at the bottom of your garden.

No coach - local or foreign - is going to be exempt from the "transformation targets" that the politicians are demanding.

 
REALLY??? Jake White isn't a good backline coach???

You don't say!!!

I've NEVER heard that before. Especially not from you, Comrade!!

I wonder if anyone else is aware of this breaking news. They'll probably be shocked to hear of this.

Oh well ... he walked away with junior and senior world titles ... not too shabby for an awful coach.

Now let me see ...

He began his coaching career as a high school rugby coach at Parktown Boy's High School's First XV before returning to his old school as a teacher and as coach of the school's First XV.

White's success with the school team resulted in him being appointed as provincial schools coach. He coached various under-19 and under-21 sides before assisting Springbok squad preparations by doing video analysis for them.

From 1997 to 1999 he was a technical advisor to Nick Mallet, being part of the 17 Test winning record by the Springboks.

In 1999 he was the assistant coach to the U-21 Springboks, coached by Eric Sauls and captained by John Smit. While assistant coach of the U-21 they won the SANZAR tournament in Argentina, beating England, Ireland, Wales, Australia, France on route to the finals and then beat New Zealand in the final.

From 2000-20001 he was an assistant to Harry Viljoen at the Springboks. By this time he was well known for his technical prowess in rugby circles, and he lived up to his reputation by coaching the under-21 Springbok side to a victory in the U-21 Rugby Union World Cup in 2002.

That in a nutshell qualified him for Bok duty and as we all know he came back with the trophy.

He's put in his time. He's learnt his trade at the hands of the best. He isn't an unqualified administrator. He is a hands on coach. Like him or not, he is very well qualified for Bok duty.

Comrade ... I have a question for you ... when are you going to pull your head out your arse?

I am sure we are all looking forward to a non repetitive post from you. 

You seem to be stuck in the twilight zone. There is a lot more to offer us than the constant horseshyte on Jake, Morne, Alberts, Victor, Meyer, Fat Fransie and how deficient they all are.

You're an irritating bore.


  

What the fools don't get is that White knew Coetzee was useless as a backline coach.....why else would he have roped in Jones?
JW had his finger on the pulse, he had sized up the situation and realized he needed a backline coach. If he hadn't the Boks would not have won the WC. Have a look at the Bok pool games....the Boks rained in tries, something they had failed to do in any of their previous tests of that year and the year prior.
I've always credited Jones with the pool games and JW from the quarter finals onwards where he changed the strategy and played clinical rugby. In his own words, "If you lose you go home, it's night time and the ball is greasy."

 
Ummm ... Comrade ... I'm still waiting.

If you please ... the link that'll clear this all up.

Hope it won't be too long now.

Thanks!!

 
Redneck ... I am well aware of the issues we have here.

Race based selections is a part of the problem. You know that.

We are looking for a solution. Complying to the norm won't do it.

We have players dictating terms to the coach. Players who incite others to rebel against the coach ... ending in his dismisal.

So yes ... we need a no nonsense approach from our coaches and we need them to be supported from on high.

That is a big step toward sorting this mess out.

Just trying to understand what you mean by a "no nonsense" approach and if you're hoping that Joke White or any other "no nonsense" coach might be exempted from quotas.

By the way, if you Google "bismarck jannie jake montpellier" this is the very first hit.

 
Yes, Plum ... Jake saw he needed help in the backline and so he brought in the best in the business.

The result in the end was that we walked away with the trophy.

Surely that's what it's all about. Winning. Success. Victory. Pride.

 As for taking crap from the  players......you might remember Matfield being kicked off the squad and sent home by Jake.

 
Thanks Redneck. That says it all.

 Exactly.
Right now have the exact opposite.
Coetzee is liked everywhere but is a terrible coach.
I know which I'd rather have. 

Not sure what you mean Klown or if you bothered clicking on the link, but that link actually corroborates what Ou Maaik is saying.

The article starts off saying "Montpellier-bound Bismarck and Jannie du Plessis signed pre-contracts before Jake White's appointment as coach of the French club" . . . which I believe is all ou Maaik is claiming.

 CC
Sorry - but the fact that you ignored is that the contracts of the Du Plessis Brothers were signed before the one Montpellier entered into with Jake White.    The brothers were paid Euro 150 000 before the White contract and they desperately tried to get out of it.
Under Jake White the backline coaching was shyte and he got in Eddie Jones to try and fix it - even Denny confirmed what everyone has been saying for years about the issue.  At the Brumbies the backline coach was Larkham and White surprisingly because of higher aspirations in Aussie Rugby allow Larkham to take full control of that aspect of the game.  
In the case of the Sharks he had no backline coaching assistance and his only solution was to bring in Fat Fransie and made the following statement :-
"With Frans at 12, you will see a much better Pat Lambie. Even at 80 percent, Frans is a better player than most people at 100 percent. We will do whatever we can to make those two the best 10–12 combination in the competition."
Fat Fransie - whom Plumtree said was no center at all - malfunctioned badly both in attack and defense.   There never was any doubt about that.   His kicking game was poor and inaccurate representing virtually continuous possession handovers, his defense was horrendous and his attacking play was buggered up by ball-hogging and virtually total inability to breach opposing defense.  In all games he played in Steyn made 2 line breaks beating a total of 8 defenders in the whole tournament.   When that happened White sh!tted on the other backline players - never on Fat Fransie.   It is no joke either - in for instance the game against the Stormers he tried to tackle De Allende twice - both times landing on his backside.
The backline of the Sharks malfunctioned totally and that was part o the reasons for the Sharks effectively firing White.      
You want links - here are three for your benefit:-
http://www.sport24.co.za/rugby/why-jake-white-left-the-sharks-20141001
 http://www.sarugbymag.co.za/blog/details/why-jake-left-sharks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake_White#Sharks_2014 
http://www.rugby-talk.com/2014/09/92628/
Wants some more??????

 
Yes ... I did "bother" ... and it does vindicate Comrade's earlier statement about the friction between the two parties ... and about the deposit paid in advance and how they were basically forced into a situation they didn't want.

A simple article like that cleared up all the back and forths in an instance ... hence the "Thanks, Redneck" ...

The Du Plessis brothers confirmed they'll remain at Montpellier a few weeks before it was made known in June. It seems they hadn't decided yet at that time.  

It would have saved us all a little time had Comrade Mike posted the links a little earlier. Instead we had the constant back and forths and that is why I asked for the link to bring it to an end.

I take it alls clear now, Redneck!? 


 

Yes, thanks. It's crystal clear now.

I thought I detected a note of sarcasm in your last post but I was obviously mistaken. I think we can all agree now that it's ou Maaik 1, Moffie and Klown 0. Let's move on.

 
Well picked up, Redneck.

You are as sharp as ever.

Correction ... Moffie and Klown 0 ... Comrade and Redneck 1.

Congrats.

'The move will be out of South Africa,' said the players' agent Gerrie Swart. 'A move to another South African franchise has never been a consideration. In all likelihood the destination will be Montpellier – it's the only party with whom I have had discussions – but the paper work has not been fully attended to.' .... Straight from the Urinal link. So a few months before Jake was signed they had signed pre contracts.....not binding contracts 'the paper work had not been fully attented to". And after that according to John Smit they had a series of discussions about staying with the Sharks in March of 2015. Obviously the money wasn't enough, so off they went to play for Jake. ... So they were not forced to play for Jake, they had at least one viable alternative.....they were not contractually bound. Case closed.

 
And that explains why the Du Plessis brothers only confimed they'd stay a few weeks before it was made known in June.

They weren't bound by contract and had other options to consider. They must have sorted out their issues with Jake. Makes perfect sense.

Sooo ... let the record show ... Moffie and Klown 1 - 0 Comrade and RooiAss