How our Coaches destroy SA Rugby - Duhan van der Merwe

The attached article should put it all to test......they could have repaid the deposits and moved on. But they didn't even though SA Rugby was offering them perhaps the highest paid South African arrangement. . And what would any smart negotiator do if a new Condition emerged after initial agreement? Say that changes everything and ask for more money of course! Chances are they were happy it was Jake, but simply used the Sharks whinging to their advantage. Hahaha....negotiating 101. . Here's the gob stopper: . 'Sharks CEO John Smit last night said that as a last resort he had put together a deal that would probably have elevated the brothers to the highest salaries possible in South Africa, but the pair have decided to move on and play two years of club Rugby in France. While figures of what rugby players earn are highly guarded, it is known that Stormers captain Duane Vermeulen is currently the top earner in South Africa. It is also reliably known than the brothers have had second thoughts about joining Montpellier since none other than Jake White became the club’s coach last year after he had “moved on” from a Sharks squad and management that were not prepared to work with him going forward. It is an open secret that that the brothers did not get on with the unpopular White, and now perhaps are not that keen to re-unite with their old boss. ..... An additional problem is the Euros 150 000 pre-contract agreement that is the norm in France, and with the Du Plessis’ having signed this stipulation, according to press reports from Montpellier, that would mean a joint Euros 300 000 forfeit they would have to repay the club. ... There will be conspiracy theorists that will also wonder if Montpellier negotiated with the Du Plessis’s outside of the IRB-endorsed window period — July 1 in South Africa and September 1 in Europe which, if proved true, in turn could spell censure for both the club and the players. Whatever the case, the Sharks have done their best to keep the brothers, first negotiating their future with them back in February. “We heard through the grape vine that there was discussion between the Du Plessis’s and Montpellier a month before Jake became the Montpellier coach, but I am not going to allege in the media that this was outside the window in which it should have taken place,” Smit said. “We were prepared to increase our off but we never had a response. “We then offered them a new figure in March, knowing that we would only have them for about nine games of the Super Rugby season, and we were talking about another R1-million per player. “That was also declined,” Smit continued. “Then the South African Rugby Union came to the party, offering a three-year-deal, and added financial value to the offer. The brothers did not accept. We then this week made a final offer that would take them to the highest salary scale in the country, but this has been declined.”'

 Mozart
You quoted this article and obviously did not understand what is said in the article.   Now you are ducking and diving like it is unbelievable.   The story of yours was totally misleading and I quote:-

"Stop with the rubbish.... please. They disliked him so much they went to play for him at Montpellier? Jannie, Bismarck, Spies, Frans, Willemse and a bunch of others....all attracted by Jake."

"The Sharks were still negotiating an alternative with the Du Plessis brothers in March, as was the South African Rugby Union. Obviously they knew the commitment wasn't contractually binding. But the du Plessis brothers obviously didn't dislike Jake enough to take the Sharks three year contracts with enhanced terms rather than their richer Euro contracts with Montpellier. "

Your above comments have been factually discredited as garbage,   Are you not happy to get a zero point for your comments and keep quiet and stop commenting on something or does your prejudice not allow you to accept the truth?   

 

"Sooo ... let the record show ... Moffie and Klown 1 - 0 Comrade and RooiAss"

Pfffffffffffhahahahaha!

Just a typically deceitful and rather childish manipulation of the facts . . . something that I'd expect from a loser like Moffie. Wow, you learn quickly from your new partner, Klown!

Listen chump, you demanded a link showing that the du Plessis brothers were going to Montpellier before Jake White signed with them. A very quick and simple Google search turned up the link you were after and you at least accepted you had a mild amount of egg on your face . . . but then along comes the childish twat who can never admit he ever got anything wrong in his life and he starts pretending that "pre-contracts" are somehow relevant to this argument and before you can say "Carbuncle", you're jerking his shrivelled little gherkin and pretending it's me and ou Maaik who got it all wrong rather than you two pedantic and obfuscating idiots.

Wehe, like I said, you sure learn quickly!

"Moffie and Klown" . . . it has a nice ring to it! Not sure if you'll be welcomed by the other Servile Gimps with open arms . . . we'll have to see how this one plays out. Could be good for a few laughs!

If the du Plessis brothers wanted out they would have simply repaid the deposits....then they could have negotiated with anybody they liked. .. There is no way a binding contract could be kept secret for 8 months. Case closed.

 You want minus zero for your distorted contributions?  Schplotttttttt?

And having lost the argument.....Urinal attempts to intimidate CC. ... Typical reaction by the left......it's not free speech, it's approved speech.

I'm afraid Redneck will have to put a little more effort in. I'm not easily intimidated.

The bottom line is that the Du Plessis brothers only confirmed they'd stay a few weeks before the news of their signing was given to the press in June ... nothing else was mentioned of a binding contract till June ... that tells me a whole different story to the one Comrade's trying to sell.

Firstly ... they were not obligated or bound by contract and had time to make a decision ... which they did just before June.

Secondly ... the Du Plessis brothers sorted their issues out with Jake. Who in their right mind would be employed under antagonistic circumstances when other options were clearly available?

Nah ... I'm afraid Comrade Mike has once again got his facts mixed up ...but that's normal for the old codger. That and repetitive posts 100 fold over and over.





 

 Question for all of you...
As far as SA coaches go, are our unanimous top three, in no particular order Rassie, Akkers and White?
Does Mallet factor in anywhere? If so, who'd he replace?

Nick Mallett first.
Then daylight.
Then Johan Ackerman second.
Then daylight.
Then more daylight.
Then even more daylight.
Then lots more daylight.
Then Rassie Erasmus, Franco Smith, Joke White, Heynecke Meyer etc.
Then daylight.
Then Allister Coetzee.
Problem is Mallett would never take the job even if it was offered to him. He knows better than most that it's a poisoned chalice.

 CC
It was not me that needed to sort out matters I raised.    I in fact only reacted to the BS raised by Mozart after I gave the factual situation about White at the Sharks and he reason for the termination of his contract.  I described the situation correctly - Mozart responded with BS.
There is no reason for me to state otherwise.     However, the two brothers contract was for two years from the 2015-16 seasons and they are likely to write a book on their careers.
There father passed away recently and they will most likely come back to administer their properties - so we will know up about what you assume has settled or not  their disagreements/dislike of White.   More likely is they decided to bite the bullet and complete their contract period with Montpellier and ignore the White situation.  


   

 CC
It was not me that needed to sort out matters I raised.    I in fact only reacted to the BS raised by Mozart after I gave the factual situation about White at the Sharks and he reason for the termination of his contract.  I described the situation correctly - Mozart responded with BS.
There is no reason for me to state otherwise.     However, the two brothers contract was for two years from the 2015-16 seasons and they are likely to write a book on their careers.
There father passed away recently and they will most likely come back to administer their properties - so we will know up about what you assume has settled or not  their disagreements/dislike of White.   More likely is they decided to bite the bullet and complete their contract period with Montpellier and ignore the White situation.  


   

 CC
It was not me that needed to sort out matters I raised.    I in fact only reacted to the BS raised by Mozart after I gave the factual situation about White at the Sharks and he reason for the termination of his contract.  I described the situation correctly - Mozart responded with BS.
There is no reason for me to state otherwise.     However, the two brothers contract was for two years from the 2015-16 seasons and they are likely to write a book on their careers.
There father passed away recently and they will most likely come back to administer their properties - so we will know up about what you assume has settled or not  their disagreements/dislike of White.   More likely is they decided to bite the bullet and complete their contract period with Montpellier and ignore the White situation.  


   

Jake White was our best coach by a mile.....HM was solid but never had White's resolve to stick to the right answer under pressure...Mallett was good until he had to change the team gifted to him, after that his record was disastrous losing 5 of his last 8 tests. All the other coaches were sub standard.

 Easy one....go with the records
JWMallettAckerman Erasmus

 After the Sharks disaster White should be no 20 when considered.   Good coach when professionally assisted.   When not he can be a disaster with an ego so big it is unbelievable and horrid human relations.
Anybody coming up with the following and then sh!t on other players when it failed is a disaster:-
""With Frans at 12, you will see a much better Pat Lambie. Even at 80 percent, Frans is a better player than most people at 100 percent. We will do whatever we can to make those two the best 10–12 combination in the competition."
Fat Fransie was a massive flop and White failed to recognize it - so how can one accept his prejudiced assessment in that case and not  realize that since he made a total mess of that one - he will not make  a mess  other aspects of his team selections and strategy?  

 "After the Sharks disaster...."
Oh alright, you're hitting on a negative.....care to find some positives...start with the Tri Nations....the 2007 RWC.....the Brumbies.
There, away you go.

 Due to freak results the Springboks never played either New Zealand nor Australia in the 2007 WC.   They got through playing that powerhouse team Fiji in the quarters and Argentina in the semi - ending up playing an aged England in the final and struggled playing the has beens in the final. 
I credited White with that one and he did have Larkham at backline coach and both being bad in Human Relations they struck gold - birds of a feather flocking together in fact.  Up to that point I also supported White in any event and I was in fact delighted by the fact that he was appointed as Sharks coach.   It was at the Sharks where things turned sour, 
One of the problems was his relationship with Fat Fransie that caused some of the major problems he encountered at the Sharks and I quoted him on that one.
With regard to Fat Fransie I went through the stats he achieved in 17 matches he played in and the following is a summary of those:-

Combined

Steyn

0/3

150

109/136/122

390

3

18

17

34

116/34

0/0

14

1/0

  So lets evaluate the above:-
*    Steyn was credited with 3 try assists - he played at flyhalf and center.   Unlike other centers and flyhalfs he never scored a single try during that season
*    Steyn converted goals resulting in 150 points - sound wonderful until compared to other regular goal kickers, but is passable
*    He kicked the ball 109 times - passed 136 times - ran with the ball 122 times.  A classic case of ball hogging  when passing represent only 36,5% of balls he handled at flyhalf and center,
*    He carried the ball 122 times gaining 390 meters for an average gain of  3,91 meters per carry.   
*    He made 3 line breaks beating 18 defenders.  Compare that to for instance 27 line breaks beating 73 defenders by De Allende in 15 games played showed how really poor Steyn's effort was.
*    He made 17 off-loads in the series representing on average 1 off-load per game,   The off-loads were generally of poor quality leading to no material gains for the Sharks;
*    His ball possession losses amounted to a total of 34 - a record not ever equalized by any other flyhalf or center in Super Rugby
*    His missed tackle ratio was 22,67% which is  in fact way too poor.
*    Add to that 14 penalties and one yellow card given away by Steyn and one get a dismal picture of under-performance.
When Mozart was raving about calling Steyn up to the Springbok squad and the above was brought to his attention he came up with a classic that Steyn's real value to the team is not reflected by his stats.  White apparently thought so too - because he regularly blamed other players for the sub-par performance of the Sharks backline.   
    

Give us the source....not saying you are lying again, but your credibility is zero.

  And your creditability is minus zero.   Is it not obvious?  It is the ESPN stats for Super Rugby in 2014.   Try the following link:-
http://stats.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/match/201487.html

I did and that's a link to the Crusaders game...not to any season long stats. Where do these stats come from, I have never found season long stats in any public source?

 Ok lets try the following link:-
http://stats.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/records/team/match_results.html?id=3395;type=tournament

 
If you're going to use stats as your source ... try to at least get the link right, Comrade.

 CC
All Mozart had to do was to click going back once he had opened the file he had and it would have gone back to the original full match list.   However, I gave him the reference and he will now check the figures provided.
Stats is not all that determine the value of players - but it still give an indication of value of performance.   For instance making 3 line breaks in 17 games and beating 18 defenders in the process indicates a very poor performance.   An average player would be more effective by the proverbial mile.   Same with tackles made and missed.   Causing ball possession losses is a disaster as well and Steyn was amazingly poor in that.  
All the stats of Fat Fransie was way below par and for White to hold him up as his model player was to my mind stupid. 

 
It does however not give you details on whether the linebreak was a quality break that lead to points ... or whether the player was left isolated and had the ball stripped off of him.

For all we know the player pierced the gap only to be hit by a cover tackle ... and subsequently knocked the ball on ... which lead to a counter attack ... and ended with the opposition scoring a try under the posts.

The linebreak is recorded none the less ... but deluded m0rons such as yourself will used it as the gosple to base you ignorant assessments on.

It's just a tool you dweebs use to sound clued-up. Much like JW with his copy and pastes. He'll read an article and from it give us running commentry.

Look how these stats confused you on Alberts. Hell you're still scratching your head wondering what's the truth of it all is.

Jy sit die pot mis oh swaer.

But it's fine ... I've grown accustomed to your repetitive and deluded horseshyte.

You bring nothing new ... nothing interesting to debate ... just the same old nonsense ... over and overr again.

I wanna talk rugby with one who has ideas and sees things as they are ... not some arse with a twisted reality.

You my dear friend are an irritant and I can learn nothing from you.

 Mike I really don't wanna jump on the bandwagon, but you still haven't answered my question about Jake's season with the Sharks.
As I recall, they were our best team that season. Possibly second best. Didn't they lead our conference all the way to like the very last game or something? My memory is 100% on that season.

 
Yes ... as far as I can remember they travelled back and forth to New Zealand three weeks in a row.

They were thumped badly but that was inevitable with all the travelling.

Jake "the inefficient" White lead the team to the final.

Jake led the Sharks to the final?

Really?

Which final are we talking here . . . the Super Rugby final?

That's what I remember too, roughly. 
Doesn't sound like a trainsmash to me though. And this was during John Smit's time as director right? Meaning Jake managed that despite his player's issues and his director meddling.
Would be interesting to get Rooi' s take, since I guess he'd have been paying attention during the season.

 Didn't they get to the first round of the play-offs Rooi?

 I somehow remember a game at the back end of the season where a small margin saw them lose out. I think it was either against the Stormers or the Stormers beat someone else and got a point ahead of the Sharks. Something like that.

"Didn't they get to the first round of the play-offs Rooi?"

I assume we're talking the 2014 Super Rugby tournament in which case yes they did and they beat the Highlanders in that match but got a bit of a klap in the semi against the Crusaders.

Not sure which final Klown is referring to.

My problem with Joke White is the negative and conservative style of rugby his team's invariably play. I remember that year saying words to the effect that I'd rather lose playing proper Sharks rugby than win playing Jakeball.

 I see. 
Ok cool. 
It's just that Mike talks about a total failure of a season. Actually it was a pretty successful season. Just we are all on the same page. 
Granted Jakeball isn't attractive rugby, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. 
Many here seem to prefer Rassie and speak more highly of him. I'd do the same, if it were justified. 

 Thanks for that Rooi.
Why are your thoughts on Du Preez btw? My guess is that the Sharks will grow from here on out.

Very happy that Robert du Preez has replaced that clown Gary Gold and even happier that Gary Teichmann has replaced John Smit as CEO. I always liked Smit as a player but his career as Sharks CEO was just one stuff up after another.

 Listening to Du Preez talk, he reminds of Hansen quite a lot.

If he gets that team firing, they are gonna be dangerous i think.

That's simply a list of games Mike. I'm looking for the reference that gives me the Fransie stats you quote......I have been looking for that kind of data, your link would be appreciated.

 Mozart
The stats are there under that item.   Click on details  and you will find the stats.   If you cannot find it, it is because you don't want to find it. 

The stats are there game by game, we all know how those work......where are the stats for the season?

Take the game by game stats and add up all stats until you get the total numbers.    A Bit of work - it took me about 45 minutes to get the total figures.   You are free to check my calculations and I am sure my findings will be confirmed.   

It's a simple request.....where are the season long stats published.....this could be a big help.