It's March says Tokkie, no its May...no really its June

 Moz, lets hope he makes it back in time and that he is prerly managed by the coach and medical team. If he can live up to the hype like Eben did, we are better off than without him.

Mozart
He apparently is being managed well - there was no matches he could play for thus far in June although he apparently have hoped to play the last Sharks match.  Probably kept out of that by Meyer.
Roberts is on the medical staff of the Springboks so there must be co-ordination between the Sharks and Meyer on this issue.
A half - fit Du Toit is better than the useless Matfield is at best.  So if he comes back when Meyer so decides he will be a real asset. 

Draad my reading of this lad is that he is an effort player, who hasn't fully grown  into his body. Just a late maturer, he will be better set at 27 by which time he will have learned to pace himself.

Right now he will come on and play flat out all the time....much like Coetzee. That will look good against the lesser teams but against an international top 5 team it won't cut mustard. 

Not being a powerhouse he needs to study how Victor contributed....how he did more by not committing to lost rucks. He will only succeed if he ups his skill set.
Willemse by contrast is a powerhouse, a pure physical player who is probably stronger than any lock out there except maybe Etzebeth and Skelton. The lack of support for this kid is hard to explain.

 So Mozart a different tale from you about Du Toits thin wrists and shoulders - and he should learn from Matfield to play at lock?   That would hardly be advisable - it would mean that Du Toit will be taught to moonlight in the backline - hardly a good lesson for a lock.  

Matfield is the success model for du Toit....not a power player, he needs to be a skills player.  

 Mike, Moz likes to push your buttons. ..that thin wrists was bait, and you took it.Moz, I was hoping PSDT would mature a bit sooner than 27 but he needs to be phased in across a whole season and we don't have the time, so Matfield will be our first choice 5 in crunch games. We still beed backup for him and someone to reduce his workload. I like Willemse as well, but something happened to alienate him. I hope it's not a silly ego thing from the coach or SARU. They should sort things out with Flip as well. .. There are some behind the scenes stuff going on that just seems so stupid!We will probably read about it in someone's book in a few years.

Our rugby is, was and always will be massively political....there are favorites and guys the system rejects.  

 Broederbond shit. Starts at primary school already. Part of the reason the current government is so hard on Rugby.

 ......no really. It is mid July.

Two injured players released from Springbok squad

Two injured players in the Springbok training squad, Frans Steyn and Pieter-Steph du Toit, have been temporarily released from the squad to continue their rehabilitation in Durban for the next few weeks.

 
Neither of them are expected to be fit for the Springboks’ first two matches of the season, next Saturday against the World XV in Cape Town and a week later against Australia in Brisbane. Steyn has a pectoral muscle tear, while Du Toit is recovering from a knee injury.

Ceradunce
You and your mate Mozart love it to write tripe on this site.   While the commentators said that the injury does not look serious since Du Toit was walking around during the remainder of the game - I assumed he may be back the next week.
Then you and Mozart went bananas with a newspaper report about Du Toit being injured and out for the rest of the year.   I warned you two repeatedly to wait for the specialist report on the injury - but you would not listen at all.
When the specialist report came out indicating that Du Toit should be out for three months - you two said that the specialist was talking tripe and that you know better - he would be out for the year.  Nobody ever said May as Mozart alleges.   
Three months meant the middle of June and there was no matches that Du Toit could have played in in any event.   He is no going for further rehabilitation for "a few weeks" and we do not know what actually is the problem or what the intention is of Meyer insofar as Du Toit is concerned.
Steyn is no loss so as far as I am concerned he could go to Japan asap.      

Incidentally dumbo - why did you not quote the full report?

 RE: It's March says Tokkie, no its May...no really its June
July 02, 2015, 19:00:20

Ceradunce

You and your mate Mozart love it to write tripe on this site.   While the commentators said that the injury does not look serious since Du Toit was walking around during the remainder of the game - I assumed he may be back the next week.


Kaaaaaak man. You were the clown he said that, judging by the way Du Toit was walking around during the game after he was subbed, he should be back the next week, not the commentators . Remember how becs referred you to the exact same circ umstances that Owen Farrel (I think it was.....) found himself in? It was the same injury and he was also walking around at the side of the field after he went off. Nee boet. You were the one who did not even wait for medical reports and declared him fit for the next week, prematurely.

 There you go, ou Maaikie. Your "prognoses" in PSDT in your own words.

clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 17526 RE: FS PSDT injured again.
March 14, 2015, 19:06:51

 Dave 

Not a serious injury - the guy had his knee strapped and is walking around - will be back next week.   H e had a great game before his injury though. 
The Dofdoos  Mozart must be bitterly disappointed - the bloody fool is hoping that Du Toit gets injured so he would not be a threat to Ouma Victoria. 

• 0 Likes

Did you get the number of  that lorry?

 Ceradunce
Stupid - it was what the commentators said during the match when they did say it did not seem that the injury was serious.   It was not what I said - you idiotic dunce.   It was what followed was idiotic - namely the joy with which Mozart put a newspaper report on this site based on speculation by a reporter and the way you hammered this report on the site as well.   When I said there has been no specialist report and said we should wait for it - that both you and Mozart went bananas.
What was weird was that after the specialist report indicates that Du Toit should be back in three months time - the two of you insisted that you know better than the specialist and that he would be off for the rest of the year.   That is a real joke and showed your hope that Du Toit would be out of the WC and not pose a threat to your favourite Matfield.   
Anyway you still do not quote the whole report - which clarified the situation and just stick to what you would like to believe.  
          

 FFS, ou Tokkie, I have just quoted your own words but trust you to be enough of a coward to blame the commentators. Let me repeat your own words again.

"Not a serious injury - the guy had his knee strapped and is walking around - will be back next week.   H e had a great game before his injury though."


This is the entire post and can be found here. http://www.ruckersforum.com/forum.cfm?threadid=13248#inscore_ifheight_xdc_500


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 17528 RE: FS PSDT injured again.
March 14, 2015, 19:06:51

 Dave 

Not a serious injury - the guy had his knee strapped and is walking around - will be back next week.   H e had a great game before his injury though. 
The Dofdoos  Mozart must be bitterly disappointed - the bloody fool is hoping that Du Toit gets injured so he would not be a threat to Ouma Victoria.

 Dofdoos
You really are the worst bloody idiot I have ever come across.  When I said what the commentators said during the match - how can you said I lied about it.   Go and listen to the commentary and find it out yourself.  
I never denied that I wrote it.  But what you deny is your joy about the injury when you went on together with Mozart to put a newspaper report on the injury on site - an article written before any medical evidence was available.   You quoted the same garbage repeatedly and then went on to imply the specialist was an idiot by saying Du Toit would be back in three months time.
I never denied that I wrote what you quoted above - but you would not quote what utter garbage followed that quote and how you virtually jum,pe3d with joy about the newspaper article.   
By the way - Dofdoos - they showed nothing of Du Toit walking around during the match - that was based entirely on comment by o ne of the commentators and mentioned by him.       

 I have never expressed any joy about PSDT's injury ever. It is your wild imagination. You on the other hand claimed that PSDT was fine, at the time  and now, since you have egg all over your face...... again..... you are trying to pin it on the commentators.

I only made one post on that entire thread, which was a parallel that I drew between the early careers of Matfield and PSDT. I mentioned pure facts.

Ceradyne

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 4439 RE: FS PSDT injured again.
March 17, 2015, 11:04:22

 This is the one big difference between the starts of the careers of Matfield and PSDT.

Matfield's first CC game at age 22.PSDT's first CC game at age 20.
Matfield's first Super Rugby game at age 22.PSDT's first Super Rugby game at age 20.
Matfield's first Bok Cap at age 24.PSDT's first Bok Cap at age 21.
PSDT was rushed into "big" rugby too soon. Two years maybe? [My own opinion]

Two years later could eventually lead  to ............. what?...........Five+ years longer? Who knows?
Now, reconsider Oimatey's posts and you would probably see the truth in what he was saying.

The above was to underline an opinion that I still have, i.e. that he was rushed into big rugby too soon, like may other youngsters. I have never rejoiced in any injury of his. In fact, I am still sure that had they waited a year, ideally two years before chucking him into the deep end,he would probably not have been so injury prone. There are others as well. Goosen, Lambie, Serfontein, Arno Botha, Coenie, etc, etc, etc, were all rushed into the big arena too early.

Blikkies I think Pollard is far shrewder in pacing himself. He is not charging the ramparts in every game....and I think he hasn't pushed 100 per cent in every S15 game.  He is physically quite a sturdy young chap. It's a fair concern given all these other examples though.

 Matfield had to wait for Andrews to announce his retirement from international rugby before he could be selected as a lock at the age of 24.   He was never a player giving his all in the Tight 5 and preferred instead to moonlight n in the backline - hence his relatively injury free career.   
The issue here is whether players are rushed into selection too early.  I agree that some are indeed rushed in too early.   They then are too often injured because they play hard rugby and do not pace themselves.  The upshot is that the "loafers" who minimize injury risks get the plaudits and they are blamed as being injury-prone.
A player like Morne Steyn never attacks the gain line and gets beaten in tackles with ease normally does not get injured because of the way he plays the game - neither does a player like Matfield.   Some others get injured because they basically are unfit as well - so the question remains are youngsters rushed in too early?  Probably yes - but that is because the older players who should have been replaced because of deficiencies have been retained in the absence of a positive replacement programme.  That has resulted in serious gaps in the availability of replacement candidates - hence the need for involvement of players too early in their careers. .
A even more serious question mark is whether players are not replaced when they should have been and stay well past their sell-by date despite inadequate or non-performance.   That creates gaps in what should be a planned and well-structured replacement programme - which in turn leads to rushing youngsters into the game.  Our last two national coaches were largely responsible for that problem.     
  

Tokkie....Vlag has you dead to rights. There is nothing in your post to suggest you are quoting the commentators. You are just lying again.

 "Stupid - it was what the commentators said during the match when they did say it did not seem that the injury was serious.   It was not what I said - you idiotic dunce"
No man Mike! YOU said what you said. So what if the commentators said it, YOU said it on this site. Where you get your information from is of no relevance, but to say "it was not what I said" is just not true! Admit it and move on. 

 Mozart
That is absolute rubbish.   If it was not the commentators who said what they did and they showed no images of Du Toit walking around after injury - how the hell would I have said what I did.   
It would be the same thing you and Ceradunce did afterwards - running wild with an unsubstantiated newspaper report on this site - but you were worse since you did not listen to warnings to await the specialist report on the injury.   When it finally came you implied that the specialist knew nothing when you said he is wrong with the three month injury absence diagnosis and Du Toit will not be back this year.
You have in any event no reason why you could not listen to that match commentary and a coward in not trying to find that commentary - the same accusation you made against me when I could not find the match video on the Welsh test.  So coward go and listen to that commentary and then come back with your lie allegation.        

 Ou Maaikie, my advice to you, would be to stop digging. You're on your way to the centre of the earth with this one and you are picking up speed. 

 You are going the other way - straight into space to match the space where your brain should have been - because you are talking utter crap.    

 Nice try. Was that your own little pearl or are you going to credit some commentator for that one as well?

Steph: All hype, no game. 

 Desert Disaster
After insulting all South Africans you have the cheek to show your face again on this site - repeating all the idiocies you have become famous for.  

Hmmmm...lets see...how clever are South Africans on the whole? We voted Jacob Zuma in for a second term...I think that pretty much answers that question! 

 Bluebok
I am not talking about the sheeple - not represented on this site.   The uneducated fools obviously voted for Zuma's party, but that has nothing to do with rugby discussion on this site.  

 clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 17547 RE: It's March says Tokkie, no its May...no really its June
July 03, 2015, 05:22:16  Matfield had to wait for Andrews to announce his retirement from international rugby before he could be selected as a lock at the age of 24.   He was never a player giving his all in the Tight 5 and preferred instead to moonlight n in the backline - hence his relatively injury free career.


Here is the thing, ou Tokkie. There was a reason why Mark Andrews "retired". After "only" 29, he was just too crap to carry on. He did not retire. He was dropped like a bad habit and then he p!ssed off to England.

Sport24 asked: Tell us the real reason why you left SA to play for Newcastle Falcons in 2003.

Mark Andrews: Both the Sharks and Springboks told me that I had no more value to offer as a player. I was forced to further my career overseas and did not leave South African rugby out of my own free will. At that stage, Kevin Putt and Brian van Zyl believed that I had nothing left to offer the Sharks, and as far as the Springboks were concerned, Rudolf Straeuli felt the same way. It can be a ruthless environment. At the time, I was 29 years of age and told my days of adding value were over.

In addition, Matfield also did not come into play after Andrews "retired". He (Matfield) came into the Bok fold before Andrews was dropped. In fact there were games where they were lock partners in the same team, but that little fact would not derail you. You were after all the one who claimed that Bakkies was subbed by Ali Williams in the game between Toulon and Exeter while they actually started the game together.

Fact is that Matfield's first game in the starting XV was on 21 July 2001 against NZ at Newlands. Guess who was his lock partner in the starting XV. None other than Mark Andrews himself. Matfield actually replaced Johan Ackerman for that game. Ackerman was Andrews' lock partner in the previous test against Italy on 30 June 2001. Andrews' last game was only in Nov 2001 at Twickenham.

Good lord I can barely stand reading this. It's too much cringe for one man to bare! Michael, I implore out of basic human decency, give it up. I am going to save this thread. The revisionist history references will prove useful.

Fox read Eat Crow (3) if you want to see an even worse example of Tokkie's dishonesty.  

 Mozart
You  have been utterly dishonest when you posted  this item.   I never ever wrote that Du Toit would be back in May.  Unlike you - who wrote after the specialist assessment that the specialist is a know-nothing and that Du Toit will not play again this year - I stuck to facts as known at the time.   But facts are not your forte - your own twisted opinions is all that count.    

 Come on Tokkie. Did you say that the injury was nothing serious and that he would be back within a week. A simple "yes" or "no" is all that is needed. Really. There is no need for lengthy essays. None at all. 

 It was not a long essay.  Based on what the commentators said - I said the injury did not appear to be serious and he is likely to be back the next week.   This whole lot of BS was unnecessary.   Mozart was just trying to come back with his standard BS - without mentioning the total foul-up he made of the injury issue.         

 Kaaaaak man............... again. It was your own assessment of the situation.


Once again......

clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 17528 RE: FS PSDT injured again.
March 14, 2015, 19:06:51

 Dave 

Not a serious injury - the guy had his knee strapped and is walking around - will be back next week.   H e had a great game before his injury though. 
The Dofdoos  Mozart must be bitterly disappointed - the bloody fool is hoping that Du Toit gets injured so he would not be a threat to Ouma Victoria.

Case closed. Stamped sealed and delivered.
QED

 Ceradunce.  You repeat the same BS over and over as if your life depends on it.  I told you 20 times why I wrote the above - but it cannot enter that deficient brain of yours.  That was what was announced by the commentators during the game - so what else is wrong with what I wrote?
What followed on that was a farce - you and Mozart going bananas as a result of a newspaper report not based on any solid info and refusing to listen to good advice advising you to await the specialist report.    When that report came out you two dunces queried the findings of the specialist  as to return to rugby as if you know more than a medical specialist.   That takes the cake - you dumb BSter.   The last part of the saga shows the utter prejudice and ignorance of the two of you.   

 

 You are 100% correct when you saying that I am repeating the same BS over and over. You posted it initially, after all. The irony is that you are thinking that we believe the BS story that your remark was because of what the commentators said. If that really was really the case, it just shows how naive you really are.


Your problem is that you talk kak and then, when you are found out you start ducking and diving to get yourself out of the situation. PSG ring a bell? Exact same shit. In that instance you even brought in Louis Luyt to try and get yourself out of it.

 Ceradunce 
You are just about the most twisted individual I have ever come across - there can be no doubt that you have no idea about what is real and what is imaginary.
Look BS I did not bring up Louis Luyt to justify anything - and what youy wrote there is as twisted as you normally are - just a total dofdoos.