So no doubt the barking dogs...

....were seeing all the young striplings running gloriously through  open space in the Oz/Welsh test. It's all about defence. Could we have pulled off ten minutes on our goal line with 13 men on the field. Unlikely with Allende and Kriel.
It's mostly  about defence you fools...look and learn.

 O its only about defense - what a lark.   Players must only be able to defend - that disqualifies a lot of players - the first in the line would be Morne Steyn.   It also disqualify Alberts - who routinely miss too many tackles because of his lack of pace. 
It is also about sound Tight 5 play as well  - so it disqualifies Matfield as well. 
The Boks can win - but they will have to make sure that those three are not anywhere near the team.   If that happens a loss is an absolute certainty.
      

 Morne held off a stern period in the last WC when we were down to 14 men against Samoa. Smit refers to that test and the 2007 WC opener the most physical rugby they had ever been subjected to in his time with the team. With Damian we last something like two or three phases in our 22 before they ran over him for the winner. Morne can tackle locks and props and loosies. Who has Damian tackled in all his tests? One effective tackle against Horne who picked a hospital pass flying overhead. Morne and Alberts have contributed more to Bok rugby than Damian, Kriel, Lambie, Reinach, Steph, Lood, JJ, Taute, Maalherbivor, Mvovo, Goosen, Jantjies and Serf combined. The sad part is that isn't even an exaggeration! 

 No it's not an exaggeration, it's a massive understatement Fox. Roberts vs A llende and North vs Kriel....like the bull fights there better be a priest on hand to read the lighties their last rites.

 Allende and Kriel would rip old jamie and North apart if they played as they did against the wee abs. Too much zip. Wales lacked bit in their backs due to injury. Otherwise oz woukd not have stopped them as they did. Context Dr Mozzz context. Neither Samia nor Scotland found our defence easy to breach. You undervalue their abilty to defend and to attack.

Damian is going to need space, how is he going to get it? If Wales are playing the same systems as always, Boks will need to find a way to get around their up and in defence. A bit harder to do when your centres don't create space or distribute. So it'll be up to Willie and Pollard. Morne used to do it with lengthy passes. Other times Wales cut you with a solid rush from the outside in, you cannot go inside or you get slaughtered but your outside backs get choked. Then they have their 15 guarding in behind that line waiting for kicks over the top. So in all seriousness, how is Damian going to outplay Roberts? In tests of this magnitude a big, powerful inside centre who can rope in the inner defenders and create some space out wide is more valuable. Wales are very well equipped to take Damian and Kriel apart. Think about it, the Aussie backline that shredded South Africa's defence were for the most part dominated. They couldn't break Wales. Two teams SA haven't beaten in their last games against us. 

Despite all that effort, all that physical contact, the multitude of runs Wales made....there was one clean break engineered by a superb Roberts pass. Hands are what opens up defences....hands and vision. Unfortunately what we have are guys who pass poorly and have no vision. 
I'll say it again..centres are the weakness in this team.

 I say again - that speaking tripe on this site is the key to discussions on this site.   We have two members heere whpo lied thiur way through discussions and two realists. 
Morne is suddenly the worlds best defender after missing 50% of the tackles in the last two tests he played in and 55% of his tackles in his last club game.  And the Welsh backline is superb after being unable to score a try when they were 5 meters out with 16 players against 13 with a superb pass by Roberts.
The key to the game is not the centers - it is the locks and is where the game will be won or lost.  Starve the opposition from getting balls in line-outs and use driving mauls to their optimum.  
There will not be daydreams in the upcoming games - there will be real competition and that is not in defense only - it will be in effective attack as well.   Despite anything else  the famed best center combination of Kuridrani and Giteau/Toomua (according to DF) has never been all that good in attacking play in this world cup.  
The last two tests we played against Wales - we got beaten up front by a deficient Tight 5 - nothing else.  We could not use driving mauls with Matfield not being a factor (reducing our Tight 5 to a Tight 4) and our pushing back in the scrum when 5 meters out was a disgrace.  Aside from that - we must bear in mind that strong tackles are required - not powder-puff stuff.
Pick the right team and the game will be won - pick deficient players and we will lose it.   The top of the list of deficient players are Matfield, Jannie du Plessis and Alberts up front and Morne in the backline,                       

When did I say Morne is the worlds best defender? What I have said is that Morne is not a particularly bad defender. You quote stats from a game I doubt you actually watched - in February you were adamant the weather was sunny and dry; it was an evening game in wet and windy conditions... hmmm. 
Against Wales last year we got punished in the backs and did not commit enough bodies at the breakdown. You have to be more specific about what went wrong Michael. So far every time you mention Welsh tests you come up with a new story. 

 DF
Your reading of games is seriously defective.  Sorry - the game last year against Wales was lost up front - the backline got bad balls and was under pressure all the time.   
Victor was not of any value in the EOYT tests.   Other than against Ireland - his line out performance deteriorated to the bare minimum and he was the cause of our Tight 5 being dominated by the forwards of all the teams we played against.   In teh Wales test he took 4 line-outs only - one on opposition throw-in and we could not use mauls as a weapon with Matfield as a lock.   Bad news that one.
True - our backline was toothless in attack - but the reason for that is not always the fault of the backline.   I think our present backline is a vast improvement on the backline we fielded last year - but the key remains the need to be competitive. in the Tight 5 - which we missed since the return of Matfield to test rugby.    
     

The game against Wales was lost by the inept play of Lambie, Reinach and Hougaard.  

Mike you are so right As has been.said by Beeno , Mallwt Naas etc so much depends on the tight 5 .Provided wee matfiled is axed we should win. Give me Allende and Kriel over what Wales has anyday. Jamsie Roberts better watch out as Allende will dump him. North is also going to watch.the mecurial Kriel. Our.pack sans wee victor will dominate Wales. Springbok fury is about to break over the heafs of the hapless Welsh. Great pity guys likr Kitshof, Marcel, Reinach/ Faf and Jaco Kriel are not in the mstch 23 but we have more than enough to account for Wales. Due to being crooked out of three RC matches we are sailing under the radar. If the guys play to potentaul that all ends. Go the Mighty Boks. Sweep away all before.you!!!

 
Actually I think the Goats would also have managed it ... given the poor Welsh attack.

In fact I think the Goats would probably have had De Allende strip the ball off one of the Welsh and run 80 meters to score under the posts.

A very disappointing Welsh performance.

Damian is a second tier nation level 12. Kriel has been regressing at an alarming rate. 

 DF
That is not what the other opposing centers says.  Ask Nonu - he knows what is the case here - and all others and they will tell you what they really think.  They would have an entirely different point of view.   Most SH centers know De Allende from Super Rugby and they will tell you he is the best 12 in the SH.  So what you are saying is absolute BS - I am sorry and sad to say.  Get over your Fransie disease - maybe you would wake up then.       

 Mike you clearly have DR Mozzzz's number and poor Fox as well. These two have very obvioulsy lost the plot and we all wish them a speedy recovery along with that oak cerudunce windpomp who appears as confused as ever.
We also hope wee cc grow s a backbone and one day become a real Bok fan.
We hope the best for all here including even the kbbs!

 Beeno, Moz & DF were two of the very few who picked the Boks to win the games they have played so far (your support has been discounted as it was never clear if you included scoreboard results or "beeno-adjusted points").

"Ask Nonu - he knows what is the case here -"
Have you asked him?
"Most SH centers know De Allende from Super Rugby and they will tell you he is the best 12 in the SH."

Have you asked them?
You know what, most test rugby coaches completely support my rugby views. Ask them and they will tell you.

 JW i got it right from the start. I didnt agree with the selections against japan and said so. I then backed the Boks to win all their remaining matches in the pool. Which of course they did.Its very difficult to find fault with Beeno when you really think about it.

 Michael, there is what people say, and there is what people do. Actions define intentions. 

 pakie
I am not as confused as you and others are.  I realize that he was the best center in Super Rugby as he -
*   made more line breaks than any other center in Super 15 (27);*   beat more tackles than any other player in super 14 (73);*   was selected as the best 12 per round in 9 of the 16 games he played in - the next best was 3 nominations).
Those were the things that talk - even though ignored by you,DG and Mozart.  Mozart made a statement published in the media after the Super 16 series and before the AB test in the RC.
I did not ask others - but that will be the case if you do ask the opposing centers.  I know the three of you have an anti-De Allende campaign.   I do not know why you are involved - but Mozart and DF wants the dismal Francois Steyn as center in the Springbok squad and has a go at De Allende all the time.  Crap reasons most of the time.   
   

Yes, Beeno you were one of the 3 regular posters who predicted Bok wins (if you discount the wee Blossoms).
However, I don't recall if you were using your "scoring methods" whereby regardless of the scoreboard you count all games as boks wins. Hence, I did not consider you in the camp of those who predicted boks wins. Also, you probably included your usual footnote, i.e. if "string bean doesn't play", etc. I will leave to others to judge if this disqualifies you.

"I did not ask others - but that will be the case if you do ask the opposing centers." 
I did not ask any test coaches if they support my rugby views either, but that will be the case if you do ask them. 
See how easily that bullsh!t conjecture flies?
I don't have an anti-De Allende campaign. My views about him are actually somewhere in the middle between those of Moz & Fox and those of you and the rest of his raving fanclub. I'm not completely adverse to him, but I'm convinced by this reputation he has of a world beater and the best 12 in the SH either, because I'm not seeing much to support that on the field of play.

The most valid point being made about our center pairing is with regards to defence - not just tackling, but reading the play. We saw in the Wales/Aus game how Ashley-Cooper shot out of the defensive line at exactly the right moment to shut down a Welsh attack out wide. Had his timing been a little off, trouble, but he got it spot on. That is what we've yet to see De Allende and Kriel do - demonstrate that they have the ability to read play like that and defend proactively. That's where they could cost us most, and that's the value you guys never saw in Jean - while he was still demonstrating it as recently as the Samoa game.

 Pakie
You are indeed busy with your standard crap,  You made a great show about the first game De Allende and Kriel played in their positions in the Springbok team and as a center pairing and as per the other imbeciles ignored their positive contributions in attacking play.   All this after De Allende has played in only 7 tests at 12 and Kriel 6 at 13.   
Talking about Jean - he and a tendency to rush out of defensive lines - like for instance happened a number fo times against the AB's in CR tests and cost the Springboks losses in matches -eg the Barrett try in 2013.  But De Villiers had more than a 100 caps and he learnt from his mistakes.  However, to condemn two oplayers after their first team together as a center pairing who have neve r before played togehter in a team is silly if not idiotic.        

 DF
Do as all a favour and stop writing your repetitive rubbish on the site.   You have zero factual information to back up your fairy tales and whatever you write will not bring back Fransie into the Springbok team - you are indeed wasting your time.   
I have read the same story over and over and could find nothing concrete in it - just vague comments of no value at all in practice.         

 @Pakie: I believe Damian has strengths too, but my main point is he cannot play 12. If he could defend he could be a perfect 13. He needs space over and above anything else. What Michael is persisting with is that Damian is the most powerful head on 12 in the game. 
@Michael: Who are you to tell me what to post? When you are competent enough to back your twaddle up then you can begin to consider it, but until then take the Amazon forest out of your eye before you try to take an alleged micro-scopic spec from someone else's eye. Comprende? 

DF
You can post what you want to - but duplicate stuff is just boring - especially if it is totally unsubstantiated by facts.  
You have the audacity to mention Frans Streyn's name in the same paragraph where you mentioned De Allende.  Fransie was crap for years now without any attacking ability and whose defense was far worse than that of De Allende.   Yet you put him on a pedestal based on no facts   and that is followed up by De Jongh - who has been a flop for years as well.  
Hell - Pakie may agree with you - but the fact that based on your attacks on players two rugby ignoramuses agree on something is meaningless.  One has to accept that both of you clearly does not believe that any backline player should show anything in attacking play - they must be defensive dummies only - is factually laughable.  LMAO .  
By the way I have never persisted with the following:-
"What Michael is persisting with is that Damian is the most powerful head on 12 in the game. That he is literally trampling over defences ala Lomu style"

What I said is that he is new in the Springbok yersey and is young and he would learn from early mistakes.   
  

When have I disregarded attacking play? 

 Duplicate BS

 Well, at least you admit that. Saves me reading another essay.

 
Pakie ... who is you center combo?

I think I may have missed you committing to a center pair?

I know that De Allende is out and so is Kriel.

Be so kind as to fill us in on your world beaters.

 the fact is de allende has a weakness on defence as does kriel. the two of them between each other cant have more than 30 odd test collectively so its normal that they are not 100% perfect. so who is to blame for the lack of depth then ???
meyer has been running this team into the ground for years so much so that it looks more like a old boys club than a strong squad. so you cannot blame the players for this. they both are very young and might be in the main team a bit to early in my view but we dont have any other players that can fill that gap. so we have to make due with that we have

 Carpet, you can blame Meyer for buying into the hype of Damian, but you must also concede that Damian us not likely to improve. He is weak in the upper body and cannot read play. How is that going to magically go away? He has shown no aptitude for inside centre. Kriel looked more promising but has lost his way, I have more faith in him to have a big game however. 
We should have had de Jongh and Frans, but now Serf is our best option at both 12 and 13. Personally I would have Serf start 13, at least we can start containing attackers again. 

 he has a weak outer shoulder on defence as well i do agree over frans steyn he should have been there. world class center but we cant change that now can we.
meyer has created this enviroment and i do hope he gets the boot post rwc.

 CM   - at 12 De Allende has 7 tests and  at 13 Jesse Kriel has had 8 tests at 12.  The drama queens are going on about the first test they played as a combo - ie the Aussie test.  They never ever played together played a game in the same team before and that is certainly a problem.   As a matter of fact as a center pair they had only 5 starting games together.      
To make it worse - De Allende never played before as a center next to Pollard either - but that does nto count with the drama queens at all.   I think it is a bit of a joke to see how they carry on about those two players.   

 i am with you on that mike. if that was meyers plans the combo of pollard de allende and kriel should have been tested for a couple of seasons first. i cannot understand the logic of now flinging them into a rwc and hoping that the lotto like educated guessing game meyer likes to play pans out. 
meyer has been running around like a blind child for 3 seasons now and the the real rwc will start. the jap game was the only real test 

With what is on tour currently I'd probably play 12. Damian 13. Jan. That's not a world beating combo, but I doubt we have one at the moment. Maybe even switch them around. 
Outside of what's on tour, I don't know. We're stuck with a bunch of good CC performers, but none of them have been tested at test level. Frans Steyn is always worth considering, but I haven't seen him play in ages.

  mike on another point if we look at the hardcore facts the only real test we had in this pool was the jap  game
the scots sand bagged the game as they wanted to focus on the samoa game. the usa was focussing on the japan game and samoa was just inept from the start. so we have not been really tested and the players and game pattern was not really pushed to its extreme. so we have been living in a false sense of reality and i do feel we will be up against it against a total rugby focused welsh side that defends and attacks as well as any other team in the world at the moment

Frans has been excellent this year. But he effectively ruled himself out after the death of his brother. de Jongh should never have been dropped for JJ. We have tried so many players at 13 and nearly all of them have failed. We are not a nation who produces good centres, we never have been and its the sole reason why we cannot function on attack. But this myth of the perfect 10 has swept the problem under the carpet. Supposedly we'll find the perfect 10 and the backline will "click".