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Victor. Out? Probable Bok team.

Started by Mozart55 REPLIES855 VIEWS· 14 Oct 2015, 01:08
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
14 Oct 2015, 01:08
#1
14 Oct 2015, 01:08#1
Lood de Jager scores

Lood de Jager is set to retain his place in the Springbok starting side due to Victor Matfield's ongoing struggle with injury, reports JON CARDINELLI in London.

It was hoped that Matfield would recover from a hamstring strain to play some part in the World Cup quarter-final against Wales. However, Matfield has not made sufficient progress during training over the past two days, and may miss the match altogether.

The good news is that wing JP Pietersen has recovered from a knee injury and should be back in the starting lineup. Frans Malherbe is set to continue at No 3 ahead of Jannie du Plessis.

Matfield has played 125 Tests for South Africa. His performances at the lineout have contributed to some major victories over the past 15 years.

More recently, Matfield produced a dominant set-piece display to guide South Africa to an important World Cup win against Samoa in Birmingham. That performance came at a price, though, as he re-injured his hamstring and was forced to miss the matches against Scotland and the USA.

De Jager took his starting opportunity with both hands. He was outstanding against Scotland, and just as dominant in the subsequent game against the USA.

On Sunday, Matfield said his hamstring was feeling better and that he was confident about featuring against Wales. At that point, it seemed as if Meyer was set for a difficult choice between the veteran and one of South Africa's form players.

De Jager, however, views the situation very differently.

‘I don’t see it as a battle of me against Victor,’ he said. ‘We’re team-mates and I’ve learned a lot from him. If I have to play off the bench this weekend, I will do what I’ve have to do.

‘You need the seniors there to guide you. I go into Test matches with a lot of emotion and fire in the belly. The seniors provide direction so I can just go and do my thing.’

De Jager agreed that the lineout battle would be fiercely contested, and that Wales No 5 Alun Wyn Jones would be a key man for the Dragons.

'Alun Wyn Jones is a good lock with a lot of experience. He’s proven himself on the international stage and whenever I’m involved it will be a big challenge, especially at the lineout. Hopefully I can get one over him and we can win the game.’

The Bok team will be announced at 11am (South African time) on Wednesday.

Probable Bok XV – 15 Willie le Roux, 14 JP Pietersen, 13 Jesse Kriel, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Handré Pollard, 9 Fourie du Preez (c), 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Schalk Burger, 6 Francois Louw, 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Bismarck du Plessis, 1 Beast Mtawarira.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Oct 2015, 01:38
#2
14 Oct 2015, 01:38#2
 The probable team listed above is the strongest potential team the Springboks can field from the squad available.  There still are some weak points - ie at the loosies, where we need a specialist open-sider and also iro the loosehead prop situation.  But the above side looks good enough to beat Wales.  The bench would be a telling issue though.
If the team as given as probable is in act announced - it would mean that Meyer at last realized that Matfield is not an international quality player anymore.         
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
14 Oct 2015, 01:59
#3
14 Oct 2015, 01:59#3
No...it would mean that Matfield is injured, just as it says in the article.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Oct 2015, 02:09
#4
14 Oct 2015, 02:09#4
 Mozart
If Matfield does not play on Satirday - it would be lunacy to bring him back for the next game.   Compared to De Jager he remains useless - even if he has recovered from his injury.   
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
14 Oct 2015, 02:37
#5
14 Oct 2015, 02:37#5
Team pretty much picks itself. 
The pieces have really come together. Good balance of youth and experience.


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
14 Oct 2015, 02:48
#6
14 Oct 2015, 02:48#6
Lomp vs Matfield is a negative trade off, but not a disaster. If Lomp  gets injured and Stephanie has to sub....that would be a disaster. And Malherbe at 3 is concerning, fortunately the Welsh scrum isn't strong.
But the centres are potential match losers.
Still, the one good thing if this article, has it right, no more Victor/ Jannie/ Jean bashing.
 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Oct 2015, 03:13
#7
14 Oct 2015, 03:13#7
 Mozart
The real matchlosers would be Matfield and Jannie and you are too prejudiced to realize that,   Neither of the two should have been in the WC squad in any event.   Jannie is a gamble - his indiscipline and lack of contribution outside of scrumming are major problems, while his scrumming in the WC was questionable as well.   Matfield was consistently a problem in all tests he played in over the past year and he ducked and dived to get out of Super 15 games as well,  Bad nws that one - he is a one-man wrecking machine iro the Springbok Tight 5.       
MO
MonsterBokClub Pro442 posts
14 Oct 2015, 05:26
#8
14 Oct 2015, 05:26#8
If Victoria is injured, are we able to F*CK him off and bring in Brussouw??  
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
14 Oct 2015, 05:42
#9
14 Oct 2015, 05:42#9
For this game you need fifteen man effort at the breakdown, not just a fetcher. Here we may edge Wales a little in the backs. Lood was who I would have picked for this one anyway, but to not have Victor at all in such a physical test is questionable. That means Lood has to play the full eighty minutes. Malherbe is very concerning. Scotland were hardly dominant at scrum time against us, but when Mal replaced Jannie our scrum creaked. It affected our attacking ball and allowed the Scottish backrow to swarm all over our backs. I noticed the Aussies were scrumming very low against Wales and disrupting them there, I don't think it will be quite so easy for us. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Oct 2015, 06:03
#10
14 Oct 2015, 06:03#10
 DF
Let me quote you:-
"Lood was who I would have picked for this one anyway, but to not have Victor at all in such a physical test... not good news at all."
If there is one thing Matfield is not,  it is being physical at all,   He is seriously deficient physically as a lock - hence is poor contribution to Tight 5 play.  You must be blind not to see it.
Malherbe is NOT very concerning - he has scrummed against Wales before and had the upper hand against Jenkins in 2013.   Is better in scrumming than Jannie is in any event and he brings far more to the team than Jannie.   
Lets just pray that Meyer see sense and send More back to Stade Franais - where he can do the bench-warming.  He is not needed and could do a Perth on us should he be on the bench for the Springboks,  But what is even worse is his near to non-existent defense.   That normally is also a serious problem.     
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
14 Oct 2015, 06:48
#11
14 Oct 2015, 06:48#11
 Actually, aside from destabilizing our scrum against Scotland Mal hasn't been doing much around the field. Merely jogging from place to place. I have not seen where Mal will give us an advantage. His belly flops in 2013 don't reassure me at all. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Oct 2015, 06:56
#12
14 Oct 2015, 06:56#12
 Blindness is a serious problem for mankind - not wanting to see what actually happens or pretending to see things entirely different from what actually haqppened is is worse because it is the basis for false statements.  But then you specialize in it - so what else is new?  
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
14 Oct 2015, 07:39
#13
14 Oct 2015, 07:39#13
 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Oct 2015, 07:58
#14
14 Oct 2015, 07:58#14
 There is no need to deny any factual issues - denial is not necessary or applicable in the case of the fairy tales you spout on this site.   
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
14 Oct 2015, 08:10
#15
14 Oct 2015, 08:10#15
 but to not have Victor at all in such a physical test..sats the Fox!!!!!!!!!HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA PLEASE DO NOT EXPECT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY.victor is the papest guy ever to play lock at international, super 15 and Currie cup level. I would hazard at Vodacom cup level as well.
This is great news!!! Much much rather have a real lock like Du Toit on the bench as well. I am sure Eben is very relieved to hve the powerful Lood as his partner and not wee matfiled out in the backline. As bakkies so wonderfully said. victor doesn't always play bin the backline. Says it all. Bwahahhahahahaha
I note Dr Mozzzzzz and the Fox are slowly backtracking on Lood. Seems the EGG got tooo much.
Malherbe should be fine as he brings greater energy.
Meyer by good fortune has stumbled on his best possibly match 15! Lets hope that is the side that starts. Wales are in for a very hard time they can count on that!I trust lady MO(NH) has her smelling salts at hand! And rooitwit as well! 
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
14 Oct 2015, 09:27
#16
14 Oct 2015, 09:27#16
I'm not backtracking. I called out Lood while you bandwagon journeymen were all over Stephanie! And I did single out Lood for this test a couple of weeks ago. The papest locks would be Du Toit and Bekker. But nothing comes quite as close as Du Toit Pom, or should I say Du Toit Pom Pom as that is the full extent of his contributions; a sideline token selection cheering on the boys getting the job done. Way ta go Stephie!! LOL!
MO
MonsterBokClub Pro442 posts
14 Oct 2015, 09:31
#17
14 Oct 2015, 09:31#17
Fox,The only Pom Poms in this squad are your picks. Victoria, Morne and Fat Alberts. They are the ones that should be dressed up in tutu's and Pom Poms shouting the real men on.  
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
14 Oct 2015, 10:03
#18
14 Oct 2015, 10:03#18
" Victor your country needs you "   ........... and he answered the call .
 

Beano, you've been slagging off the legend for the past decade, if not longer  ...... actually ouMaaik is a relative newbie Matfield-basher in comparison . Hopefully Matfield has an opportunity to rub your bigoted snout a bit deeper in the 'merde' .
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
14 Oct 2015, 10:14
#19
14 Oct 2015, 10:14#19
Bongster Mok, Alberts is a beast! And Morne is an all time great Bok. 
Best stick to what you do best Bongster, namely:
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
14 Oct 2015, 10:16
#20
14 Oct 2015, 10:16#20
 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
14 Oct 2015, 10:41
#21
14 Oct 2015, 10:41#21

Now we are talking......that side smacks of a Dave side.....only players who would not make my starting 15 are du Preez, Louw and Schalk.


du Preez and Schalk I can live with......we will beat Wales with that side  

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
14 Oct 2015, 10:48
#22
14 Oct 2015, 10:48#22

Wrong Moz, Malherbe has been far better than Jannie in the scrums as clearly pointed out by Mallett. Malherbe is in a different class.


Wrong that if Lood or Etzebeth get injured, there will be an issue with PSDT on the field.....biggest load of  shit I have read this month......surpasses the crap DumbFox comes up with.


PSDT is 10 times the player Matfield is. There is a reason people wax lyrical about this kid and why Meyer rushed him into the squad despite very little game time prior to the WC


PSDT is as good as Etzebeth and Lood are and that's a fact.


Kriel and DA are the best attacking centre pair in the WC.....the stats will confirm that  

DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
14 Oct 2015, 11:07
#23
14 Oct 2015, 11:07#23
M allett is clearly losing the plot (if he ever had it). Where would he have been without Jake doing video analysis for him? This guy has zero ability to see what's in front of him. 
Our scrum was fine against Scotland. On comes Mal and the Scots dictate terms. Great stuff. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Oct 2015, 11:13
#24
14 Oct 2015, 11:13#24
 DF
Are you nuts - does a Tighthead win by us does not mean  "and the Scots dictate terms."
Sometimes I think you are just posting to stir - at other times you are delusional.  The Malherbe one falls in both categories,  
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
14 Oct 2015, 11:16
#25
14 Oct 2015, 11:16#25
 What a bugger of a thing to happen .Never mind it will keep Wiktor fresh for the semi and barring that Japan 2019 ! Victor is indeed the new Bubba Hotep who will be around for millenia just to annoy Mikey !
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
14 Oct 2015, 11:28
#26
14 Oct 2015, 11:28#26
Boks will take the risk of not playing Matfield in the 1/4 finals so he will be ready to assert his dominance in the semis. The wee young chaps will just have to step aside for the master.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
14 Oct 2015, 11:33
#27
14 Oct 2015, 11:33#27
 Desert Fox
 
Status: Senior player 
Posts: 2108RE: Victor. Out? Probable Bok team.
October 14, 2015, 11:07:28

 Mallett is clearly losing the plot (if he ever had it). Where would he have been without Jake doing video [removed]ysis for him? This guy has zero ability to see what's in front of him. 



Geez mate. Are you sure you want to be the cause of another meltdown by revisiting that sensitive little issue? You will probably be reminded immediately about NM's 17 game winning streak. 
Any mention of his demise following "that" Twickenham test and the sacking of JW in favour of  Solomons, will be wiped under the carpet with the same urgency that was applied in mentioning his winning streak.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
14 Oct 2015, 11:53
#28
14 Oct 2015, 11:53#28
DumbFox you are lying yet again.....at no point did the Scots scrum EVER dictate terms - blatant bloody lie  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Oct 2015, 12:20
#29
14 Oct 2015, 12:20#29
Dave
You should know by now DF sees what happens on the field of play not what actually happened, but what he wish that things to happen.   Reality has no bearing on the issue - his day dreams and hopes he turns into fairy tales with which he floods the site. Whatsoever he writes is no real bearing on player performances.   He has the players he likes - mostly duds - and those he dislikes, normally top class performers where he has to invent reasons for his opinions - garbage reasons like a lack of upper body strength of De Allende.
He is a classical case of rugby ignorance.    
BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
14 Oct 2015, 12:31
#30
14 Oct 2015, 12:31#30

Best team available.


I would say our chances are better than 50/50 - provided Pollard has found some consistency with his kicking. He needs to convert all his kicking at the poles into points.

Will do no harm if Morne is on the bench.


 

KM
Ka MateClub Pro246 posts
14 Oct 2015, 12:40
#31
14 Oct 2015, 12:40#31
Say what you like about Nick Mallett but that Springbok team he managed was the only Springbok team that can be regarded as a better team than the All Blacks at the time. You lot may have fluked the occasional win over the All Blacks in other years but Mallett's team was the only one that AB supporters would have readily admitted was a superior team.

Mallett wasn't much chop with the Ities though. Thought he'd make more of a difference tbh.
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
14 Oct 2015, 13:26
#32
14 Oct 2015, 13:26#32
Ka Mate in 2009 the Boks were better than the AB's. No question! I even remember feeling a little sorry for your lot during the Tri Nations. Granted, it was only one year!! LOL, but I'll take it. Also, very little of the credit for the Boks strength at the time could be given to our idiot of a coach PDV. I do agree with you regarding Mallett, maybe not the most likable fellow, but a very good coach! 
As for his time with Italy, I also expected better from him, but lets face it, the rugby pool in Italy is not great, so there was limited talent to work with. 
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
14 Oct 2015, 13:50
#33
14 Oct 2015, 13:50#33
 What is it that makes Mallett such a good coach? We have people shouting about players selected on "reputation" but at the same time  want to turn to a coach, based on some dodgy reputation.
Fact is that the same "useless" HM was his forward coach. In addition, he also had the services of Jale White, who he regarded as "a video technician". Fact is that Solomons did not see eye to eye with White and basically forced Mallett to choose between them. Mallett went with Solomons and the rest is history. The first test after the "fallout" was the one at Twickenham which ended the winning streak and from there on everything went pear-shaped.
Even the Italians could not wait for his contract to run out. He said that he wanted to extend his stay with the Italians but they were only two happy when his contract ran out and he wasn't even a consideration for a second term. He got the job as the Bok coach on the back of his tenure as the SWD coach....... coincidently also with HM as his assistant, and he got the job as the Italian coach on the back of his work with Stade Francais. IMO, club/provincial rugby is his ceiling as far as coaching goes.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
14 Oct 2015, 14:52
#34
14 Oct 2015, 14:52#34
 Malherbe will belly flop....it's guaranteed, he does it in every game the scrum isn't dominant. What will the ref do is the big question....still Jannie is on the bench. It's Steph coming in for an early Lomp/Etzebeth injury that strikes fear in the hearts of men .
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Oct 2015, 14:57
#36
14 Oct 2015, 14:57#36
 What has this to do with Mallett?   Because he criticized the performances of Matfield and Morne Steyn where the panel - inclusive of Naas Botha - was in full agreement with him.   The issue here ie not Mallett - it is what players like Matfield and Morne in fact produce that is the deciding factor in these discussions.  
At least the people on the panel knows more about rugby than the dolts like you on this site knows.  Mozart and DF thinks they are the real authorities on rugby issues and you try to follow them though thick and thin.  
So lets forget about Mallett and think about why De Jager and Malherbe are so much better as players than Matfield and Jannie are.    If Matfield and Jannie play in games are winning chances are reduced by 50% because of systematic demolition of our Tight 5 by them.   That is the end of the story.             
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
14 Oct 2015, 14:58
#37
14 Oct 2015, 14:58#37

Rubbish, Malherbe has never belly flopped, is a superior scrummager to Jannie - the very reason he has now been selected ahead of Jannie in a QF


As for Nick Mallett, he was easily our best coach after Kitch......far better than Jake and Meyer......a great rugby brain.  

BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
14 Oct 2015, 14:59
#38
14 Oct 2015, 14:59#38
Cera, he achieved a good winning ratio winning 27 or 38 tests . So what if his assistants were Meyer or Jake White or whoever else! A good coach will surround himself with assistants that make up a strong coaching team. I am not a Meyer basher, but Mallets win/loss ratio is a lot better than his, and if you are bashing Mallet please tell me, what is it that makes Meyer such a good coach? 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Oct 2015, 15:02
#39
14 Oct 2015, 15:02#39
 Mozart
When did Malherbe "belly-flopped" and do not lie about when and where, because you are going to come short.  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
14 Oct 2015, 15:16
#40
14 Oct 2015, 15:16#40

It never happened Mike.....I know that for a fact. Everytime Malherbe has gone down, its been at the exact time his opposite number has gone down along with the frontrow in its entirety.


Malherbe has saved our blushes a good few times at test level in the scrums   

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