Who should be the new Captain of the Springboks?

 That is the question that is on every person's mind, standing alongside a fire, or sitting in a bar (actually anywhere!).

Here is a list so far:

Fourie du Preez:  Heynecke Meyer stated that he might use him as his temporary captain, unitl everything is in order.  This may not be a bad choice, but FdP is over the hill, and there are way better scrumhalves available.

Juan Smith:  A while ago there were speculations that he might be a great option for this role.  I would like to agree with this, as he never lets the team down.  A man playing with passion, integrity and intensity.  Always tactical and he knows what is going on in the field of play.  A problem is that he is currently injured.  Another question will be:  Will he last till RWC 2015?  

Schalk Burger:  the same profile as Juan i.t.o. playing.  always at the ball, and brutal on both attack and defence.  But does he have the true leadership skills that a Springbok captain should posess? 

Jean de Villiers:  Definitely not.  The sooner he leaves, the better

Josh Strauss:  A young man with a great rugby future ahead of him.  He was thrown in the very deep end at the Lions, but he made his mark.  With a team consisting of few to no Springboks, they won the Currie Cup.  Surely one can argue that the Bulls, Sharks and Stormers had no big guns in their teams in 2011.  Still, he came from Varsity Cup (skipper of Maties) after winning the title there too, and played against the big guys.  IMHO I think strauss should be our skipper.  This guy has 2 RWC's to win, he's a better 8th man than Spies, and being a skipper 8th man, makes it the optimal position for a captain.  I would love to see him wearing the Green and Gold.

What do you think?

Im probably one of the biggest Strauss fans.

I reckon he has the  X factor in terms of leadership.

He also isnt the type to go M.I.A.  when the team is on the back foot (ala Mr Spies)

As a player, i think his robustness is awesome.

Also puts in some massive hits.

My one slight concern is his size. He doesnt have the incredible bulk (excuse the play on words of a Spies or Vettie.

But he lacks absolutly nothing in terms of instrumentl, calm, inspiring leadership... ball skill and the hunger of a pit bull in a chicken pen.

So ya.... Strauss has my vote.

New coach, new captain, new era.

Go Bokke!

It's a tough call, I'm leaning towards picking a Captain to take us to and beyond the next WC. On that basis age is a factor so I'd rule out FDP, Schalkie and Juan. Will Strauss make the squad.....we have so many loosies to choose from?? What's wrong with Chilliboy as national captain? Clearly there's no-one who stands out unless of course Meyer goes for the short term option in which case I'd pick Schalkie.

pietplof

Going by the amount of your posts can I safely assume that you're new to the Forum?...if that's the case..Welcome and happy rucking!

Schalla also plays well when captain.

But I'd still give it to Strauss. He just has an awesome aura and commands respect on the field.

Schalla... one of the best players of all time... but doesnt have that leadership aura.

I would give it to Josh IF he is good enough to make the starting 15. Chillieboy is not the first choice hooker in my book, so that disqualifies him ATM. Of the rest its only Skalkie that looks to be an option, but something does not quite ring true for me with him as captain. I am a Stormers fan and a huge Schalla fan but he would rather be my Bok captain by default than by choice.

My guess is by the end of the S15, Strauss is going to look like a mid level talent. In a way he is similar to Potgieter at the Bulls, great heart but just not there physically. Schalk inherited a failing Stormers team and took them to the top of the South African conference. Look no further.

My guess is by the end of the S15, Strauss is going to look like a mid level talent. In a way he is similar to Potgieter at the Bulls, great heart but just not there physically(thats what I'm afraid of). Schalk inherited a failing Stormers team and took them to the top of the South African conference. Look no further. OK maybe, but like I said, more by default than by choice, but who knows, the season hasn't even started yet. Lets see what happens.

Some basic facts include the fact that Schalk is an illustrious Bok favoured by John Smit to take over - he has the resepct of the other Boks. He is young enough to be at the next world cup. He is articulate and leads by example. As Moz says look no further.

As to Josh well he in my opini does not lack physicality. H is 114 kg nd it shows. However  it is too early to make him captain. Will he make a Bok starting 15 is the first hurdle he faces and he does lack international experience.

Josh still has to prove himself. Captaincy is not for babes in the wood.

Beens, yhe jury is still out on Straus, and I agree he's a greenhorn, but in his first year of super rugby he took over the captaincy of the Lions and he won the CC in his first season as captain. Ad to that 2 varsity cups in a row, ass captain, and you would see he is no slouch as captain. He took over the captaincy of the Lions with the likes of Vicus and Baywatch in the team. John Mitchell  is also a no nonsense type of guy and he will not give the captaincy away cheaply.

And I know he's green, but Graeme Smith was also green when he took charge of the cricket boys and look how that worked out.

All in all I still think Scalla should get it, but I do have my reservations about it.

 My captain would be Josh Strauss, I think this lad has leadership engrained in him and he is a fantastic player. I am a Schalk fan, but Schalk is getting on now and I think Josh has more to offer. Its between Schalk and Josh as no other candidate stands out at all.

The likes of du Preez and Jean no longer merit a starting spot. I dont see leadership in Bismark, but then I have not really seen him in that role. Spies does not strike me as a leader. The best leader of the lot is Josh Strauss and he is good enough to displace Schalk at 7. As for Strauss not being physical enough, that is the biggest load of rubbish I have read in ages - he is more physical than Schalk

My Bok captain would be Josh and my Bok side would be:

15.Lambie 14.JP 13.Taute 12.Frans 11.Mvovo 10.Jantjies 9.Hougaard 1.Beast 2.Bismark 3.Mujati 4.Flip 5.Bekker 6.Brussouw 7.Strauss(c) 8. Spies 16.Pienaar 17.Sadie 18.v/d Heever 19. Coenie 20.Chiliboy 21.Etzebeth 22.Vermeulen

If you want to put JS into the bok side, he should replace Spies. This year I think would be Spies' final chance to come of age or to be dropped by the Boks.

In my opinion Spies has had enough chances already.

Fact... he SUCKS whenever the team is on the back foot.

He goes totally MIA!

Weren't you saying the same things about Potgieter, you're now saying about Strauss Dave? And before that, I hate to embarrass you, but  wasn't Watson the guy you claimed was much better than Schalk. The fact is you have always been Luke warm about Schalk.

Draad I think it would be ver yhard to captain guys like Schalk etc when you are a green horn.

You make much of the Currie Cup win but the acid test is Super 15 rugby. Let Josh make the Bok side first and settle in a bit. No need to rush things. Obviously he has captaincy potential but lets see him lead at Super 15 level and see how well he plays.

I think John Smits view needs to be taken seriously.

Chippo
Member
Posts: 51 RE: Who should be the new Captain of the Springboks?
February 19, 2012, 23:41:41

In my opinion Spies has had enough chances already.

Fact... he SUCKS whenever the team is on the back foot.

He goes totally MIA!

Now this somehow does not make sense. If the team is on the back foot, it means that the team is not playing well, i.e. the team sucks. So, when the team suck, he has to be at his best................ Right?

@Beeno, If Schalk Burger has a problem beig captained by a "greenhorn", I would seriously doubt his commitment. If a player has problems playing under a certain captain, he will be a bad apple, and you get rid of him................. pronto. In 2004, John Smit captained a '95 RWC campaigner with great success. Naas Botha successfully captained N Tvl at the age of 23.

Ceradyne...

Please... take my point as any adult would...

All i am simply trying to state is...

We need a captain who can still put his hand up and say i gave it my all, even when the team loses.

Someone like JS, Joost and Pienaar.... still could be accounted for when the Bokke lost.

Spies is a rock star when the pack dominates... but he goes missing in action when the the pack is on the back foot.

WE STILL NEED 8 FORWARDS DOING THE HARD GRAFT WHEN OPPOSITION ARE GETTING THE BETTER OF US.

Can anyone remember  the last time Spies had a good game?

The second test against the Lions was the last time I remember. As for the back foot business Ceradyne, I think what Chippo is saying is that Spies tends to give up. Natural competitors like Schalk, Bismarck and Hougaard seem to find an extra gear when the team is in trouble. Spies does as well.....unfortunately it's reverse.

I can't remember him doing anything at the WC. He's not the only one who goes MIA but he's the most noticeable and that's probably because he  promised so much earlier in his career.

Did you guys miss the RWC?

deleted

@Cedradyne

Nope, did you?

I think Pierre also missed most of it, though I'm sure he got some fantastic shots from the back of the scrum.

Let's cut the small talk Ceradyne, tell us what Spies did at the RWC that was noticeably good.

I glad someone pointed out that Spies does not look good in a back going backwards. Ditto Brussouw of course.

Now intelligent folk would wonder why the Bok pack was found to be on the retreat so often. Well if they had been reading Beeno's posts they might hav ebeen able to come to the right answer. I say might given inherent limitations!! Bwahahahahahahahaha

The answer is of course tyhe pap tight five. We had a loosehead quite capableof playing good rugby - Beast - but one who was a serial loafer. We had lardy John Smit way over weight and over the hill. Worst of all we had 107 kg wee victoria possibly the pappest lock ever to play internatioanl rugby for any side at any time.

 That gentlemen and windpomp explains why our pack has been on the retreat. I predicted Steenkamp woul doust beast and he did. Bissie everyone should know was miles ahead of lardy and this was widely acknowledged. Only the supreme con artist victoria got away with it

Given a proper Bok tight five a reassessment of Spies and Brussouw might be needed. Somehow in Spies 's case it is a matter of the heart. Maybe he dosent have the heart to be a great number 8? Brussouw should only play if we have a dominant tight 5.

All very elementary all very obvious.

As you say Denny, let's cut the small talk. There were quite a few opinions about Spies' play in the RWC. I am not talking abougt warra warra BS biased opinions on rugby forums. How do you suppose I motivate my opinion, while your won expert opinion boils down to nothing more than "He is kak and he cannot defend,etc"? For starters, he is supposed to be useless in defence. His Tackles made/missed count in the RWC is as follows:

Wales: 11 tackles, 0 missed
Fiji: 13 tackles 1 missed
Namibia. 3 tackles 0 missed. Namibia only had 36% possesion, and the SA tackle count was obviously low.
Samoa. 6  tackles 1 missed
Australia:2 tackles 0 missed. Same as Namibia with Aus having only 33% possession. Spies had a total of run of 121 metres with the ball. By far the highest of the SA Team.

@Beeno. "I glad someone pointed out that Spies does not look good in a back going backwards.............." WTF? The entire pack goes backwards, and Spies is out of order when he is going backwards as well............?

 Nope Moz, I have never called for Potgieter ahead of Schalk - I rate Potgieter but would not play him ahead of Schalk. You are wrong about me and Schalk, I have always rated the man, not as highly as you. I see Schalk for what he is, he puts his body on the line for Boks and WP, you cant fault that - my issues with Schalk is that he tends to always target the opposition instead of looking for space - the man likes contact.

As for Watson over Schalk - without doubt, Watson was a far better openside flanker/fetcher than Schalk has ever been. I would never have played Watson ahead of Schalk, I might have played them together. Schalk has never been a 6 and never will be. The man is a 7 and would always have competed with Juan Smith for that spot. Prior to Brussouw coming onto the scene, Watson was our best openisder by some distance. Had he not come with all his baggage, he would have played many tests for SA. The lad is a quality rugby player, who has spent his life wasting that talent as he is now doing with the Kings - his useless father has plenty to answer for.

Strauss at 115kg is hardly going to lack physicality that is for sure. One certainty is that when he runs into the opposition, he makes an impact, more so than Schalk does. His workrate is up there with Schalk's and at 25, he is the future. The lad led a bunch of average players to CC victory, that speaks volumes for the guy. The man has presence on the park. I'd probably start with Schalk at 7 in my Bok side, but have a feeling it would not be long before Strauss replaced him. Josh shines in an average Lions side, imagine what he could do in a Bulls, Stormers, Sharks or Bok side - the man is the real deal - too big, strong and committed not to continue making a huge impression.

 Am with you Cera on Spies - he has had some quiet moments but picked up his game at the end of last season. There is no 8 in the country that is able to make the impact Spies does with ball in hand. Forget the likes of Alberts and Vermeulen - both good players but just do not have that mojo about them.

When Spies has ball in hand, I expect things to happen - I cant say the same for Alberts and Vermeulen. Alberts a year or so ago looked like he was going to kick some arse, but it all blew over after his initial impact. Vermeulen has always been steady, but star he has never been.

We do need Spies on form, for on form, there is no 8 to touch him

@Beeno. "I glad someone pointed out that Spies does not look good in a back going backwards.............." WTF? The entire pack goes backwards, and Spies is out of order when he is going backwards as well............?

Windpomp read my post and then read it again - then maybe you will twigg.

@Beeno. I thought that you might stop being so dof, when you moved to this site, but alas, it is getting worse. You are running around in circles. Your opening statement is about Spies. Your end statement is about Spies. The "body" of the part you have written is about how crap our "pack" was. What is more, in your conclusion you decide that he has a psychological problem, i.e. he does not have the "heart".  What a load of bull twang.

@Cyrildene...

You are such a knob.

I agree with many things you say, but flip u r so annoying

Bismark captain. Morne Steyn vice captain....howzat?

@Chippo. Oh..............

@ UmgeniShark. Are you trying to stir or are you seriaas?

@ UmgeniShark. Are you trying to stir or are you seriaas?

PS, Welcome here, I am sure the regulars would agree.

Thank you. Being very seriaas....Steyn does not get the credit he deserves. Cool, calm and collected, just what you look for in a leader. Only thing that prevents him from being perfect is he is not a SHARK!!! hahaha

In my book a 9 and a 10 (especialy 9) should never be skippers, unless they are so obvious leaders that its almost unthinkable not to pick them.

Bismark might become the first bok captain to headbutt

a ref.....hope not but I think he is not cappie material....yet, who knows?

 Steyn is not good enough to make the Bok side, we dont need that ponderous plodder in the side when we have creative 10's like Jantjies and Goosen coming through. 

We are yet to see Bismark lead so how can you choose him as Bok captain - strange call, but not as strange as Morne as vice - bloody hell

Stastitics are a valuable measuring tool,however, it's not the be all and end all to gauge a player's  or a team's performance. Statistics can also mean squat, take for example the infamous Bok vs Wallaby world cup quarter final where it shows the Boks having something like plus minus 70% of the ball and almost the same in territory but ended up losing.  Point is going by the official stats of the game the Boks were supposed to have won and going by your stats on Spies it seems like he was doing alright.

I'm not a stastitics person but it would be interesting to see what Burgher's were, to my eye he was outstanding throughout the WC while to the same eye Spies was MIA.....which is what his been for an awful long time.

@Denny. I was asked why I think that Spies did not have a good RWC. I think he did well in the RWC and I supported it with some data. I saw him put in quite a number of tackles, and I have given the data to support that. I saw him quickly pick up the ball at the base of the scrum a number of times when our scrums were on the backfoot. This is something that is important for an 8 to be able to do, in order to protect the scrummie, from being tackled with the ball, when the scrum is going backwards. Now al I would like to see is why you think he did not do well. I saw him puting in a number of runs with ball in hand as well. He is and has always been a handy jumper in the line-outs.

Now you have already indicated that he is close to being totally useless. Problem is that you have not said why you think so. "Stats does not mean squat", is not quite an answer. "Stats" is supposed to be a tool to be used to evaluate certain scenarios. Be that to see what might happen, or what has happened, or what could happen. I have looked at Burger's data as well, and he has put in more tackles than Spies, and his success rate was more or less the same, but they had different roles.  Burger, as an openside flanker, where he played in the RWC, is supposed to be tackling like an animal. He should be putting in one hell of a lot of successful tackles, not just a few good ones. Read these two pieces by Zinzan Brooke, about the flankers. news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/rules_and_equipment/6321829.stm  (Blindside flanker), and  news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/rules_and_equipment/6321959.stm (openside flanker).

Now apart from "Spies is kak because IMO, he disappears when the pack is on the backfoot", why alse do you think he is not good enough.