End of EU? Farage reveals the shock leader inside Europe that will soon topple Brussels

@Ceradyne

Yes at the end of the day NI is part of the UK, but that doesn't help deal with the real world reality of the situation.

The ones that have an issue with the backstop are the hardline unionists in NI. But they are not the majority view of Northern Ireland. Can you not see how having a hard border that covers 300 crossing points that 30,000 people use every day is far more disruptive than having customs check moved to UK ports and airports. Citizens of NI have to show passports when going to the mainland UK already. There is already differences between NI law and UK law. The majority of Northern Ireland citizens favor this solution and to be honest I'd say the majority of people living in the mainland UK couldn't give a monkeys about the issue either way.

Its the best solution we currently have. Unless you know of another solution, other than basically saying to nationalists in the north tough shit, the UK has spoken, suck it up.

Parliament is the sovereign power of the UK. Its in law that referendums can override parliament or force the UK parliament to enact any laws. So to say the electorate is above parliament is quite simply wrong.

The overwhelming majority of parliament campaigned for remain, when brexit was voted in you could say the majority switched to leave in order to honor the result of the referendum, but there never has been a majority for a no deal brexit.

So you think none of the following could be potential issues. UK business not being prepared for the return of filling out customs forms. Not enough customs officials to be able to handle the paperwork. Massive traffic jams at UK ports. Food spoiling due to those traffic jams. Food shortages, medical supply shortages, lack of warehouse storage space to stock emergency supply of aforementioned items. Only 12 patrol boats to patrol the entirety of the UK fishing waters. The inability to sell the 33% of the fish they catch into the EU as they currently do. The massive disruption to just in time to supply systems and tariffs on items sold into the EU that like likely result in the end of UK agriculture and car manufacturing industries with knock on effects to the business that support them (even pro-brexit economists predict this!). The validity of the European arrest warrant be rendered void. The loss of access to European policing agency databases. The question of what rights the 3 million EU citizens living in the UK will have after a no deal and the rights of the 500,000 UK citizens living in the EU. British citizens living in the EU currently have their medical expenses paid by the state they are living in, does that right carry over or is it stopped. Stability of the Northern Ireland peace process. The US congress blocking a US-UK trade deal if the GFA is undermined. Job losses totaling into the hundreds of thousands. The requirement of British citizens to have a visa when travelling around the EU. The majority of trade agreements reached with the rest of the world via the EU becoming null and void, not enough diplomats and civil servants to process new trade negotiations quickly enough and who have to catch up on 35 years worth of loss trade deals. Loss of access to the new European GPS system the UK in part paid for. Arrangements regarding access to European/UK airspace. The collapse in the value of sterling. The NHS having greater difficulty in recruiting doctors and nurses from the EU. The possible return of roaming charges for UK citizens when in the EU.

But sure its all just project fear. All you need for Brexit to work is to believe in it. To hell with reality, just pull the plug, sure how bad can it be right?

"Can you not see how having a hard border that covers 300 crossing points that 30,000 people use every day is far more disruptive than having customs check moved to UK ports and airports.  "

That is if there is going to be a "hard border". 

"Parliament is the sovereign power of the UK. Its in law that referendums can override parliament or force the UK parliament to enact any laws. So to say the electorate is above parliament is quite simply wrong.  "

Are you saying that those who have the power to dismiss is not the higher power. Parliament is elected by the electorate, based on their election manifesto. The basis is that the elected official have to deliver on, first of all, his/her election manifesto and, secondly, the will of the electorate. 

"UK business not being prepared for the return of filling out customs forms. Not enough customs officials to be able to handle the paperwork. Massive traffic jams at UK ports. Food spoiling due to those traffic jams. Food shortages, medical supply shortages, lack of warehouse storage space to stock emergency supply of aforementioned items.  "

Facts? 

"Only 12 patrol boats to patrol the entirety of the UK fishing waters. "

Patrol boats are the only solution?

"The inability to sell the 33% of the fish they catch into the EU as they currently do.  "

The EU is the only market in the world? 

"The massive disruption to just in time to supply systems and tariffs on items sold into the EU that like likely result in the end of UK agriculture and car manufacturing industries with knock on effects to the business that support them (even pro-brexit economists predict this!).   "

More speculation?

" The question of what rights the 3 million EU citizens living in the UK will have after a no deal and the rights of the 500,000 UK citizens living in the EU.  "

Don't you guys ever listen?

"British citizens living in the EU currently have their medical expenses paid by the state they are living in, does that right carry over or is it stopped.   "

Actually that is charged back to the NHS and the NHS get much less back from the EU for medical services to EU citizens in the UK. 

NHS 'Scandal' As UK Pays Millions To EU The UK pays more than £670m to EU countries for Britons' healthcare abroad, while claiming back less than £50m from the EU.

"The overwhelming majority of parliament campaigned for remain, when brexit was voted in you could say the majority switched to leave in order to honor the result of the referendum, but there never has been a majority for a no deal brexit.  "

Once again. Is that how democracy works in your books? Parliament is in effect appointed by the electorate. They are in service of the electorate, not the other way around.

"The validity of the European arrest warrant be rendered void. "

That cannot be solved by an extradition agreement? 

"The loss of access to European policing agency databases.  "

Only if the EU decides to in some petulant retaliation move. From what I can remember the EU is more dependent on the EU data than the other way around. Even the USA makes use of GCHQ.

"Stability of the Northern Ireland peace process.  "

There we go again. Repetitive fear mongering.

"The US congress blocking a US-UK trade deal if the GFA is undermined. Job losses totaling into the hundreds of thousands. "

And more speculation.

"The requirement of British citizens to have a visa when travelling around the EU.  "

Only if the EU is petulant and vindictive enough to enforce that. They have the choice to allow visa free travel if they want to. It was only in 2008 that the UK required visas for South African visitors due to security issues with SA passports. I have travelled to the UK visa free on many occasions before that. 

"The majority of trade agreements reached with the rest of the world via the EU becoming null and void, not enough diplomats and civil servants to process new trade negotiations quickly enough and who have to catch up on 35 years worth of loss trade deals.  "

Debunked already. WTO if push comes to shove, remember?

"Loss of access to the new European GPS system the UK in part paid for.   "

So what? The UK has already started putting measures in place and the EU is more dependent on the UK as well for the EU GPS. Remember the fact the Galileo system relies on ground systems on UK soil. In addition, Switzerland has signed an agreement to join in Galileo. What stops an agreement between the UK and the EU as well.

"The NHS having greater difficulty in recruiting doctors and nurses from the EU.   "

They have the Commonwealth and the whole wide world to recruit from and what stops them from still recruiting from the ERU countries? Are you suggesting that EU countries may ban their citizens from taking up NHS jobs?

@rooinek

If there was a vote right now, the majority would vote to stay with the UK and leave the EU. Staying in the UK is far more important to Unionists than staying in the EU.

If there was was an option to stay in the UK and remain in the customs union I think the majority of NI would prefer that option.

In the next 10-20 years though the nationalist population will overtake the unionist population going by the current birth rates . At that point a united Ireland will likely be voted in.

It remains to be seen if a hard border is needed or not. 

"Are you saying that those who have the power to dismiss is not the higher power. Parliament is elected by the electorate, based on their election manifesto. The basis is that the elected official have to deliver on, first of all, his/her election manifesto and, secondly, the will of the electorate. "

What I'm saying law in the UK is not enacted by referendum but by parliament. Which party has a no deal brexit in there manifesto again?

"Facts?"

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49142762

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jun/14/uk-businesses-urged-to-step-up-preparations-for-no-deal-brexit

https://www.businessinsider.com/leaked-no-deal-brexit-plans-reveal-uk-is-not-prepared-for-october-exit-2019-7?r=US&IR=T

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/20/port-of-dover-warning-regular-gridlock-congestion-hard-brexit-trade

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/food-shortages-after-brexit-you-18927693

https://www.thestar.com/business/opinion/2019/08/13/spectre-of-no-deal-brexit-sparks-food-

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/agribusiness-and-food/food-shortage-warning-for-britain-in-event-of-no-deal-brexit-1.3979377shortage-fears.html

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/21/uk-warehouse-space-nears-capacity-firms-stockpile-for-brexit

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/19/vital-medicine-supplies-risk-no-deal-brexit-mps-warned-pharmaceutical-industry

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2019/08/stockpiling-not-good-society-will-no-deal-brexit-mean-medicine-shortages

Ceradyne, I'll respond to the rest of your post later. Haven't got time to fully respond at the moment.

I'll look into your point about the charge back to the UK on medical fees. I wasn't aware of that and if it is as the article suggests the UK being charged back more I'll stand corrected on that point.

" What I'm saying law in the UK is not enacted by referendum but by parliament. Which party has a no deal brexit in there manifesto again? "

That is generally correct but:

1. Parliament is elected by the people and answers to the people and the people have, by their vote, the right, the power and the ability to oust the parliament. The vote leave won on many fronts. They won the total number of votes. The majority of constituencies voted leave. The majority of Tory constituencies voted leave. The majority of Labour constituencies voted leave. The only majority for Remain was among the MPs in the House of Commons. I'm not sure of the house of Lords, TBH.

2. Parliament undertook and promised to honour a leave vote. Even David Cameron himself, despite being a Remainer, said so. Check the video clip.

3. None of the parties explicitly declared a no deal manifesto and I cannot remember saying that they have. Both Labour and the Tories did, however, run on honouring the leave result. Fact remains that a deal or no deal was neither a condition in the referendum, nor was it a condition in the notice that triggered article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty and neither was it a condition when the motion to trigger Article 50 was debated in Parliament. The deal became a matter of contention when the Remainers and BBC commentators started their efforts to block Brexit.

@Ceradyne

Just coming back to finishing responding the post before your last post

"Patrol boats are the only solution?"

No, I'm sure in time they can bolster the number of vessels patrolling UK territorial water and possibly use helicopters in support as well, but even with a much large number of vessels the sheer size of the UK's waters will make it extremely difficult to enforce. Plus increasing the number of vessels that will take time and cost money.  While the UK maritime patrol services are stretched to the limit chasing away French fisherman, people and drug smugglers may find more gaps to slip through.

"The EU is the only market in the world? "

Of course its not, but you need trade deals to sell food to other countries and the UK has currently bugger all trade deals lined up ( I think it has 11 but none to any major economies). By the time countries are found that want to buy the fish and new trade deals are agreed its likely many UK fisherman will be long since out of business. Also its all very well saying you will sell your product elsewhere just not to your nearest neighbors but fish are perishable goods and they need to consumed in a certain time frame. What the UK gonna to do fly all the fish into landlocked Switzerland or ship them all to South Korea. Oh look they have a trade deal with the pacific island and the Caribbean islands..I really don't think those places lack fish as it stands!

"More Speculation?"

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/could-brexit-spell-the-end-for-just-in-time-production/

https://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2018/02/06/just-in-time-the-production-system-brexit-is-set-to-sabotage

Also some links to what Patrick Minford the pro-bexit economist said would happen to UK car manufacturing in the event of Brexit.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/devastating-future-welsh-manufacturing-predicted-15323164

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2019/01/28/brexit-to-destroy-u-k-car-manufacturing-lead-to-cheaper-imported-cars-increase-traffic-congestion/#428ccddc5c4b

"Don't you guys ever listen?"

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/letters/boris-johnson-eu-nationals-no-deal-brexit-mogg-trump-a9023961.html

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-citizens-in-uk-must-prove-right-to-free-health-care-after-no-deal-brexit/

"Actually that is charged back to the NHS and the NHS get much less back from the EU for medical services to EU citizens in the UK."

I wasn't aware nations could charge each other back for the medical charges.  But also having read this article in full it appears to be case of UK/NHS incompetence that they were not charging the other EU nations fully. It doesn't appear to be some restriction placed on the UK by the EU just the UK not bothered to charge the EU the full amount or at least a reason isn't given as to why they are not charging the other member states the full amount.

"Once again. Is that how democracy works in your books? Parliament is in effect appointed by the electorate. They are in service of the electorate, not the other way around."

Yes they serve the electorate but you know as well as I do there is no majority among the electorate for a no deal brexit. You ask a dozen Brexiteer voters what Brexit means to them you could get a dozen different answers back. Its Canada+ to some, a Norway model to others, to some its no deal and a complete break with the EU, to some staying in the customs union is acceptable, many believed that leaving the EU would have no affect on trading with the EU at all. Polling in the UK now indicates their isn't even a majority for any type of Brexit.

Personally I think the best way out of this would be 2 more referendums. The first with 3 options. Brexit with a deal, Brexit with no deal, Remain. Then a second referendum would be a run off between the two options that got the highest vote in the first referendum. Thinking it would be the fairest way of dealing with the issue and still giving the people their say,

"That cannot be solved by an extradition agreement? "

My understanding is that extradition would be a slower process than whats currently in place. Buy that's not what I'm talking about. When the 31st of October arrives will potentially dangerous people in the UK who have been arrested under the EAW be released when its jurisdiction lapses in the UK. Some sort of deal could be reached before then to prevent this from happening, but as of now there isn't one. And if you say "well of course they will reach a deal on this issue by the deadline", I would say wasn't the UK suppose to have left in March and no deal was sorted out then?

"Only if the EU decides to in some petulant retaliation move. From what I can remember the EU is more dependent on the EU data than the other way around. Even the USA makes use of GCHQ."

Its not retaliation, its part of the rules. You're a member of the EU you get these perks, your not a member you don't. The EU is a rules based organization that's how it works. While I would hold UK policing and intelligence in high regard, I'm a bit baffled as to how they could have more data than the other 27 member states combined.

"There we go again. Repetitive fear mongering."

Go and say that to someone who lost family members, friends and loved ones during the troubles.

"And more speculation."

Eh...no. They have said this multiple times. They said it again just yesterday!

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49348062

Hell even the Daily Express the super pro brexit right wing newspaper acknowledged it.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1160262/brexit-news-ireland-good-friday-agreement-irish-border-brexit-US-trade-deal-congress

"Only if the EU is petulant and vindictive enough to enforce that. They have the choice to allow visa free travel if they want to. It was only in 2008 that the UK required visas for South African visitors due to security issues with SA passports. I have travelled to the UK visa free on many occasions before that."

Again the EU is a rules based organization. If they give the UK which will be a plain old standard 3rd party country after Brexit, visa free travel other 3rd party nations will demand it as well. Why should the UK a non member state get a perk of membership?

"Debunked already. WTO if push comes to shove, remember?"

Whats been debunked is the myth that the WTO is going to save the day for the UK. No country in the world trade purely on WTO terms. You really really need to look up what trading under WTO terms would mean for the UK.

"So what? The UK has already started putting measures in place and the EU is more dependent on the UK as well for the EU GPS. Remember the fact the Galileo system relies on ground systems on UK soil. In addition, Switzerland has signed an agreement to join in Galileo. What stops an agreement between the UK and the EU as well."

Yeah the measures they are putting in place is to build their own system, which they have just started to plan for now. At the cost of around £5-6 billion, having already wasted £1.2 billion on Galileo. Their own system will take many years to build and come online well after Galileo and consume the UK entire aerospace budget for 10 years. Yes the UK could get an agreement to use Galileo but its unlikely considering they have already walked away from the negotiations earlier this year.

"They have the Commonwealth and the whole wide world to recruit from and what stops them from still recruiting from the ERU countries? Are you suggesting that EU countries may ban their citizens from taking up NHS jobs?"

They are already recruiting from the Commonwealth and world wide and the EU and they are still shor t numbers. Of course the EU countries won't ban their citizens from taking NHS jobs, its that less EU citizens want to work in the UK because the Brexit vote was a resounding "f**k off" to the citizens of the EU. In affect when the UK voted for Brexit and cited freedom of movement as a reason for it, they effectively said we don't want European citizens working in the UK, a no deal Brexit makes it more difficult for EU citizens to come and work and live in the UK.

James O'Brien 

Makes sense now

FFS, Xavi. You beat me. I was just going to say that he is the biggest anti Brexit BS’er around. 

As for the rest. I will reply sometime during the weekend. I am occupied tomorrow. 

I do want to comment on one aspect, for now though. 

“  Yes they serve the electorate but you know as well as I do there is no majority among the electorate for a no deal brexit. “

Once again. No deal was not a question when they voted in favour of triggering Article 50 and it was not part of the notice either. No deal is the default position. If they do try to vote down no deal, they will, in effect, be voting against themselves. They all know that. Why else would they be so frantic to concoct all kinds of measures to try and prevent the time from running out.

@ xavi, Ceradyne

Yes JOB is the biggest anti Brexiteer around fair enough. But that does not refute what the person he was interviewing was telling him the head, former head and former deputy head of the WTO was saying about how operating under WTO terms is not what Brexiteers think it is. There has been plenty other trade exports and economists who have warned that the WTO will not save the UK economy.

Asides from which, Brexit was advertised as about taking back control. So whats so different about following WTO trade rules than EU trade rules and why are WTO rules better than EU rules?

Once again, no deal Brexit was not the Brexit being advertised by the Leave side during the referendum. There wouldn't have been a snow balls chance in hell of leave side winning if that is what they campaigned on.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/google-trends-brexit-no-deal-eu-referendum-vote-dominic-raab-leave-a9027551.html

The public was told many different things. These are all from before the referendum.

“After we Vote Leave, there won’t be a sudden change that disrupts the economy.” Boris Johnson, Gisela Stuart and Michael Gove

“We would immediately be able to start negotiating new trade deals… which could enter into force immediately after the UK leaves the EU” Chris Grayling

“There is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of it… Britain will have access to the Single Market after we vote leave… The idea that our trade will suffer because we stop imposing terrible rules such as the Clinical Trial Directive is silly."Vote Leave" * The designated official campaign for leaving the EU

“We will negotiate a UK-EU Treaty that enables us 1) to continue cooperating in many areas just as now (e.g. maritime surveillance), 2) to deepen cooperation in some areas (e.g. scientific collaborations and counter-terrorism)” Vote Leave

“There will be no change to the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic.” Boris Johnson, Gisela Stuart and Michael Gove

"The day after we vote to leave we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want" Michael Gove

"I will be advocating Vote leave because I want a better deal for the people of this country, to save them money and to back control" Boris Johnson

"If we vote to leave I think the union will be stronger" Michael Gove

"Within 2 years, before negotiation with the EU is likely to be complete, & therefore before anything material has changed, we can negotiate a free trade area massively larger than the EU. The new trade agreements will come into force at the point of exit" David Davis

‘The idea that we’ll do a transitional arrangement where you’re still in, paying money, still with free movement of people – that we’ll do the long-term deal in slow motion … That is plainly not what we’re after.’David Davis

'There are good grounds for a new government team to offer the public a voice on what the deal looks like. And we obviously wouldn’t oppose that... I think there’s a strong democratic case for it.' Dominic Cummings, Vote Leave campaign director,

'If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy”. David Davis, 2012, discussing the EU

'In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way.' Nigel Farage, May 2016 discussing his views if remain won by a narrow margin

'Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market,' Daniel Hannan,

"We could have two referendums. As it happens it might make more sense to have the second referendum after the renegotiation is completed." Jacob Rees-Mogg

'There is no reason why the UK’s only land border should be any less open after Brexit than it is today.” Theresa Villiers on the NI border.

"The first calling point of the UK's negotiator immediately after #Brexit will not be Brussels, it will be Berlin, to strike a deal" David Davis

"Within minutes of a vote for #Brexit CEO’s would be knocking down Chancellor Merkel’s door. Demanding access to the British market" David Davis

I could keep going and going with quotes from prominent Brexiteers who where pushing leave in the referendum. And they where peddling even more crap after the referendum as well.

You keep saying that parliament must respect the will of the electorate but you must  know the the majority of UK electorate does not want a no deal Brexit.

I just came across this clip. Check the date, ie 16 Jul 2016 which, importantly was after the Brexit vote and before the 2016 US elections. Bear in mind, as well, that Jimmy Dore and his panel are all progressives.

@Ceradyne

Not really following how what Mark Blyth was saying makes Brexit good for the working people.

Firstly he was critical of the Euro, implying it could be a way of bringing down western European countries wages down to eastern European wages to compete with China instead of raising eastern  European wages up to western wages rate. Any evidence to support that? A report from July of this year has wage rates across the Eurozone as a whole rising 2.5% in the first quarter of this year which is a 10 year record high.

Secondly even if what he was saying was true. The UK is not in the Eurozone.

Austerity doesn't work?. Well that's highly debatable. Look at Irelands economy. We went through a really tough few years of very heavy austerity but got through it and the economy is back on track. GDP growth and unemployment figures are both good. Ou r economy has surpassed where we where before the crash. I'm not saying austerity was fun and many people suffered here because of it and you can debate whether it was right to burden the people with bailing out banks, but you have to give a fair assessment of the situation.

I agree with him in regards the Brexit vote was in part a protest vote by disenfranchised working class and lower income earners, against the establishment and elites though there was quite a few other factors. But I do believe it was misdirected and those same people who voted for Brexit are the ones who will bare the brunt of its affects.

Ceradyne have you had a chance to look at what happens when in the event of no deal the UK move to WTO rules and why it will not help the UK deal with Brexit?

“   A report from July of this year has wage rates across the Eurozone as a whole rising 2.5% in the first quarter of this year which is a 10 year record high.“

From which base year?

The fact that the UK is not in the Eurozone is a blessing in disguise. 

It is no use preaching to anyone in the UK about austerity. The UK economy has been the fastest growing economy in Europe for quite some time now despite the fear-mongering that it would crash immediately following a leave vote.  

Just like all Remainers, you keep on repeating what YOU believe would happen and what so called experts believe with no concrete evidence. 

And then there is the constant wailing about fabricated border issue. Have you noticed that I said fabricated? 

Yes. Fabricated.

Nice deflection but you didn't answer my question, do you have any evidence to back up the claim that eurozone wage growth has declined in western europe or that eastern european growth has declined or stagnated since the inception of the euro?

Whether the UK being out of the eurozone is a blessing or not is a whole other debate.The UK is not in Eurozone and has a permanent opt out, so Brexit had nothing to do with Euro. 

I'm not preaching for austerity just pointing out the fact that Ireland's economy recovered from austerity which disproves your point that austerity doesn't work. Again this is reality.

The UK economy is not the fastest growing economy in the Europe since the referendum. Have you even looked?

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/02/europe-s-10-fastest-growing-economies/

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2019/03/22/uk-economy-since-the-brexit-vote-slower-gdp-growth-lower-productivity-and-a-weaker-pound/

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/ATAG/2014/528775/IPOL_ATA(2014)528775_EN.pdf

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/11/uk-2018-economic-growth-weakest-since-2012.html

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_Union_member_states_by_GDP_growth

Like alot of the hardline brexiteers you seem determined to avoid having to deal with real world issues. The WTO just like the EU has rules, these rules are known, we know the consequence of operating under these rules. Look up WTO most favored nation principal.

Saying the border issue is fabricated is just more brexiteer fantasy land nonsense. Brexiteers where warned that the border would be an issue before the referendum. They just didn't care about it and assumed it was a small issue that would never cause any significant issues. Reality once again says hello.

No deflection.

"Firstly he was critical of the Euro, implying it could be a way of bringing down western European countries wages down to eastern European wages to compete with China instead of raising eastern  European wages up to western wages rate.  "

He said, in 2016, that it COULD be. You even underlined it.

"Whether the UK being out of the eurozone is a blessing or not is a whole other debate.The UK is not in Eurozone and has a permanent opt out, so Brexit had nothing to do with Euro.  "

You were the one who first brought the Eurozone and wages in the Eurozone into the equation. I just said that the UK being outside the Eurozone is a blessing in disguise. I stand by iot for various reasons. One of them being the fact that leaving the EU would have been more difficult, had the UK joined the EU and the Eurozone. It would have been a hell of an exercise to revert back to the Sterling from the Euro. Probably the only good thing Gordon Brown ever did, albeit in hindsight.

"The UK economy is not the fastest growing economy in the Europe since the referendum. Have you even looked? "

Point taken. They were at one point, IIRC, since the referendum. Fact remain that it is still the second biggest economy in Europe, though.

"Like alot of the hardline brexiteers you seem determined to avoid having to deal with real world issues. The WTO just like the EU has rules, these rules are known, we know the consequence of operating under these rules "

Uhm, I don't think so. Of course there are rules. It is not called WTO rules for nothing. Having said that, like a lot of hardline Remainers, you seemed determined to avoid dealing with real world issues. Not being an EU member does not mean the end of international trade for the UK. In fact, it opens the door for less restricted international trade. 

Of course international trade will continue between the UK and the rest of the world after Brexit and even a no deal Brexit. No one is arguing that it won't on on the remain side. But it will be very significantly reduced.

There is a major issue with trading solely on WTO terms. 

Using the example in that James O'Brien clip, the UK as it stands with its deal with the EU can sell cars and dairy products (among many other things) into the EU tariff free. In the event of a no deal cars being imported into the EU will be hit with 10% tariff and dairy products can be hit with tariffs up to 35%. Suddenly UK imports in the EU are much more expensive than EU counterparts, which will result in drastically reduced demand as the importers in the EU won't be able to afford them and/or look for cheaper EU based tariff free alternatives.

Now you could say that's the EU been vindictive and placing unfair tariffs on the UK buts its not. That's the EU is operating under WTO rules and those are the tariffs it operates when trading via the WTO, because under the favored nation principal of the WTO the EU can not lower these tariffs for the UK without lowering for every other nation it trades with under WTO rules (Russia would be an example). If the EU lower the tariffs for the UK they have to lower them for everyone they don't have a trade deal with.

Likewise some products the UK imports from Europe will have tariffs on them coming into the UK, making them more expensive for importers, expenses some importers may not be able to afford. If the UK says okay fine we will lower or get rid of these tariffs. If they do that they have to offer these same lower or not existent tariffs to every other nation it trades with under WTO rules which it will be nearly every nation on the planet because it only has 11 or so trade deals lined up after Brexit occurs. If they are offering low or no tariffs on products being sold into the UK why would other nations bother signing a trade deal with them. They in affect have the best trade deal already.

In this video skip onto 5.11 seconds for what operating under WTO really means for the UK.

Also can you please cite the restrictions the EU has placed on international trades. Which restrictions do you have issues with?

The market will determine.  Supply and demand, simple...tariffs?lol...you Trump Groupie you!