Tariffs

There is no doubt trading conditions aren’t equivalent across the globe. I once negotiated getting US dairy products into Japan, almost impossible back then.

But the system that exists has been built over 100 years. It can’t be fixed in a week or a month or even 5 years.

There was a trade fairness edict that would have made sense. The current system of huge trade deficits will implode at some point. But it could have been done so much more soberly without countries feeling they are under attack.

The implementation of this in the short term risks chaos. In the longer it risks massive missteps.

Trump has always felt the US is being screwed and he found support among blue collar workers in swing states. He is paying back that support, but the longer term prospects for industrial labor in the US remain cloudy, because of robotics if nothing else. He may be trying to save something that is dated for other reasons.

Governor DeSantis is looking pretty good this morning. But more to the point big shifts to the right or left have massive counter responses in the US. If this chaos continues look to a massive swing to the left in 2028. Losing wiser heads like Mitch McConnell doesn’t help.

..

Thank god the US didn't vote for Kamala eh?

Snippy!

It's not even 3 months in yet...the dust will settle and things will come back to normal.

There is a chance things will come back to normal. There is also a chance countries like China may escalate. In the meantime the US has created a lot of bad will unnecessarily.

The puzzling thing is there is a good case for pushing for a level playing field…there was no need to be belligerent. That could come later if necessarily.

It reminds me of the decision to invade Iraq which squandered the sympathy for the US following 9/11.

The simplicity of the formula to calculate the tariffs also undermines the notion that this was a considered decision.

The 2nd term of Trump has no guardrails... His first term had some very capable conservatives who were also decent people.

His 2nd term is just low-skill sycophants that treat him like a king, with some billionaire advisors with no government experience looking to enrich themselves further.

Now we see the clown show that is proceeding. I already see people in Europe protesting to stop using American products and services. That is in addition to burning Tesla showrooms down - like in the US. Tesla sales have dropped substantially in Europe, and after this, they are just going to get worse

Many Americans are scared of defaulting on their massive 30 trillion debt. If they just made billionaires pay the same % tax as everyone else, they could fix the problem. They won't...

Apparently, the Roman empire collapsed after becoming so top that they could no longer pay their debts.

The economic decline of the Roman Empire was a key factor in its eventual collapse. Several interconnected economic issues played a significant role in weakening the empire over time:

1. Heavy Taxation

1. As the empire expanded and the military became more expensive to maintain, the government resorted to raising taxes to fund its defense and administrative apparatus. The tax burden grew heavier, especially for the lower classes, which led to widespread dissatisfaction and economic strain.
2. Many citizens and landowners struggled to keep up with the constant tax demands, which led to a decline in agricultural production and weakened the economy further. High taxes also contributed to the erosion of civic pride and loyalty to the state.

2. Inflation and Currency Devaluation

1. The Roman Empire faced severe inflation during its later years. The government began debasing the currency—reducing the silver content of coins in an attempt to produce more money. This inflationary policy devalued the currency, making it less reliable for trade and commerce.
2. As a result, the value of money dropped, prices skyrocketed, and the purchasing power of citizens decreased. This economic instability caused businesses to falter, trade to decline, and people to lose trust in the imperial economy.

3. Dependence on Slave Labor

1. The Roman economy was heavily dependent on slave labor, which was used for agriculture, construction, and many industries. However, as the empire’s expansion slowed, the supply of new slaves diminished.
2. Without a continuous influx of slaves from conquered territories, the labor force became strained, and economic output in agriculture and other sectors suffered. This shortage of labor, combined with a lack of innovation in labor-saving technologies, hampered economic growth.

4. Decline in Trade

1. As the empire’s borders became more difficult to defend and the economy weakened, trade routes were increasingly threatened by barbarian invasions and piracy. In the later years of the empire, economic connections between different regions of the empire broke down.
2. The disruption of trade reduced the flow of goods, resources, and wealth into the empire, which further contributed to the economic stagnation.

5. Overreliance on Provincial Wealth

1. Much of Rome’s wealth came from its provinces, which provided resources like grain, oil, and luxury goods. As the empire expanded, it increasingly relied on the provinces for tax revenue and raw materials.
2. However, many provinces, especially those in the western part of the empire, became economically weaker over time due to mismanagement, corruption, and the inability to sustain productivity. As these regions became less economically viable, Rome’s economy began to suffer.

6. Economic Inequality

1. As the empire grew, wealth became increasingly concentrated in the hands of a few elite families, while the majority of the population, including farmers and urban laborers, faced poverty.
2. The gap between the rich and the poor widened, leading to social unrest and a weakening of the economic base that had once supported the empire. Large estates owned by the wealthy elite also contributed to the displacement of small farmers, who could not compete with the vast, slave-driven estates, further damaging agricultural productivity.

7. Military Spending

1. The Roman Empire's military was a significant drain on its resources. As the empire faced more external threats, military spending skyrocketed. Maintaining a large army, particularly on the empire’s borders, was extremely costly.
2. The empire had to fund both defense and expansion efforts, which drained financial resources and contributed to the growing debt. In times of crisis, the empire relied on heavy borrowing, which led to even more financial strain.

8. Decline of Urban Centers

1. As the empire’s economic stability eroded, urban centers that had been hubs of commerce and culture began to decline. Many cities suffered from depopulation, which reduced tax revenues and economic activity.
2. With fewer resources to invest in infrastructure, public works, and civic life, the quality of life in many cities deteriorated, which in turn affected the economy as a whole.

In Summary:

The economic decline of the Roman Empire was driven by a combination of high taxation, inflation, reliance on slave labour, a weakened trade network, and an overburdened military. These economic stresses, coupled with rising inequality and the decline of key provinces, contributed to the gradual weakening of the empire, setting the stage for its eventual collapse.

Hard to overstate how much damage Trump has done to America in such a short period of time.

"Hard to overstate how much damage Trump has done to America in such a short period of time."

Indeed . . . and this is just the start . . .

Trump just slapped tariffs on pretty much the whole world, except: Russia, Cuba, Belarus and North Korea. / bne IntelliNews

By bne Berlin bureau April 3, 2025

US President Donald Trump dropped a tariffs bomb on the whole world on “Liberation Day” by imposing sanctions on every country the US trades with – with very few notable exceptions. Russia, Cuba, Belarus and North Korea were exempted, but not Ukraine or Israel.

“The current sanctions against these four countries are quite strict, and the introduction of additional trade measures is not currently being considered,” White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt explained the decision in comments to Axios.

The tariffs include a blanket 10% minimum duty on most imported goods and a 25% levy on all foreign cars, effective April 3. However, countries already under heavy US sanctions – including Russia, Belarus, Cuba, and North Korea – have been excluded from the new trade measures as the White House considers the current sanctions regimes in place sufficiently robust, Leavitt said.

US tariffs imposed on Russia would be almost useless, as the trade turnover between the two fell to a mere $3.8bn in 2024 out of total exports of $417bn. The US imported $3bn of Russian goods, or 0.72% of Russia’s total exports.

Still, Leavitt warned that the Kremlin should not assume it is off the hook permanently, saying that “Russia may still face additional strong sanctions” in the future.

Trump is reportedly getting frustrated at the slow pace of progress in the ceasefire talks that kicked off in Riyadh on February 18, and threw his weight behind a sanctions bill that impose up to 500% secondary tariffs on any country that trades with Russia, floated in a bi-partisan effort earlier this week if Russian President Vladimir Putin refuses to sign off on the mooted 30-day ceasefire deal currently on the table.

Presidential spokesman Dmitry Peskov said at the weekend the talks were close to collapse. Kirill Dmitriev, a member of the negotiating team and head of Russia’s sovereign wealth fund, is currently in Washington on April 3 for talks with Special Envoy to the Middle East Steve Witkoff to try and break the deadlock.

Canada and Mexico are also spared from the latest tariff package due to the 25% import duties the US had imposed on them in previous trade actions.

Surprisingly, Ukraine and Iran were included in the tariff regime but were hit with the minimum 10% tariff rate respectively. However, the US ran a trade surplus with Ukraine in 2024 and had negligible trade with Iran, apart from imported rugs and pistachios. ?

The trade turnover between the United States and Ukraine totalled approximately $2.87bn in 2024, comprising $1.68bn in US exports to Ukraine and $1.19bn in imports from Ukraine. ?However, Trump has complained about the billions of dollars the US has poured into supporting Ukraine over the last three years and is trying to recoup some of what was spent.

Between February 2022 and December 2024, the US allocated approximately $182.8bn to Ukraine as military and financial support, out of which a bit less than $100bn was actually delivered.

The new tariffs, unveiled on April 2, reflect President Trump’s renewed push for what he has described as a “fair trade reset,” aimed at boosting domestic manufacturing and closing the trade deficit. The imposition of a universal 10% duty marks a significant shift from previous targeted measures, indicating a broader, more aggressive protectionist stance.

Markets are now closely watching for retaliatory measures from major trading partners and further clarification on how exemptions – especially for sanctioned states – might evolve in the coming months.

https://www.intellinews.com/russia-cuba-belarus-and-north-korea-exempted-from-tariffs-as-already-sanctioned-374864/

Hush money, J6, crippled world economy......no traction with Putin.....where does it stop!?

Watched him on telly this morning...... "It's going very well" he said.

Reminds me of 'Rome was burning while Nero was playing his fiddle'

I like America, I dislike America under Trump.

My fear is that he'll sink the country.

Not convinced it would have been the same or worse under the pretender, Hariss.

So Jaguar/Landrover is halting shipments to the US for a month. They manufacture zero of their products in the US and get 25% of their sales in the US. Jaguar is aggressively switching into electric with very strange prospective new models.

That captures to a lesser degree the problems facing many auto makers. The industry was in plenty of trouble already with the change to electrification. The tariffs on top could put a few under.

The lost jobs all over the world will fuel new political movements

Andrew Neill who is about as right wing as they come in the UK points out how nuts it is for America who basically built the worlds economic system and designed its rules now complains they are getting screwed by it.

America (especially) and the rest of traditionally Democratic countries have a working-class problem—it's growing while the middle class is shrinking. This is a barometer of long-term success, more than annual GDP growth.

China's manufacturing ability gets better by the day, and they are eating into areas like cars that were previously all from Democratic countries.

So, something has to change. A far more prudent approach would have been to make an agreement with partner countries for a fixed rate of tariffs to protect local industry (Products and services).

Trump's approach is a disaster. He is not being guided by financial experts, instead, he has minions working for him.

The shareholders will turn on Trump as it will initially impact them. However, downstream, the impact could be layoffs in America (and other countries). It is not as if factories are going to be built in America overnight.

This is something that requires a long-term plan agreed by all parties because if the working class become the majority, they are going to overthrow the established mainstream government (left or right) with more extreme options like far left or far right.

Many of the people supporting the far right are the poorest, so it is more than ideology or social beliefs.

It is the working class banding together against the establishment, hence why someone like Trump was voted in to begin with.

Imports are immigration without people moving. The mass of poorer people is an irresistible force under the rules of Democracy, it swept away South Africa as we knew it, and it changes economic welfare in Western countries. Ultimately because of interdependency it will give a country like China a veto over Western life.

The hope has always been that these poorer exporting countries will develop a middle class and become more like us. It hasn’t happened in China. India is a more comfortable partner, but their infrastructure challenges are massive.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/apr/04/donald-trump-tariffs-ai-hallucination

extract:

There’s a scene in the very first episode of Yellowstone where the casino-owning Native American chief explains the basic financial logic of all casinos to an uncomfortable politician: “The gamblers’ money is like a river – flowing one way. Our way.” Oh no, hang on, wait … Not all casinos. In fact, it could be that when all is said and done, the historians looking for that one key fact to illustrate the eventual legacy of Donald Trump will not go with his two stunning presidential election wins. Instead, they’ll point out that in the 90s, he literally managed to bankrupt casinos. To repeat: this is a man who somehow contrived to bankrupt multiple casinos. Is he the guy to reshape the entire global economic order of the past century? Let’s find out! Either way, only 45 months of his presidency left to go.

America (especially) and the rest of traditionally Democratic countries have a working-class problem—it's growing while the middle class is shrinking. This is a barometer of long-term success, more than annual GDP growth.

Liberals have shapped the world as they have forced globalization to happen. yet, in spite of this, they keep struggling with consequences of their own organization.

The working class in the west has a problem with the western world. White working class people have a problem with themselves. A working class simply no longer belong to hte western world. A white person, developps rockets, vaccines, softwares, nuclear reactors etc Liberals do not even understand races and racism as they built it. People who live in the west and work working class jobs should move to places in the world where they belong, that is segmentation of space under liberal econoics. The west has grow too rich to keep hosting working class activity. It no longer pays enough to allow people to live in the lucury of the west. And it is increasingly correct for a larger set of jobs. Liberals have somehow accepted that people of a certain set of skills move to richer places of world. They can not come to terms with people of a certain set of skills moving to poor places of the world. Butcher houses are not built in the richer quarters of a town.

The hope has always been that these poorer exporting countries will develop a middle class and become more like us.

Becoming liberals? What an idea. Liberals are the last ones who want people to become like them. Liberalism is a system based on exclusion and this claim is like claiming that slave owners wanted slaves to become like them. In the US, people fought for slaves not to become like them, they fought for slaves to remain slaves.

Liberal countries are figthing China as China is turning too much alike them. 300 million Chineses are waiting to ascend to a middle class status and that would imbalance the world power distribution in terms of capitalization, in terms of mass market and such. Both sides know it, the liberal world is speeding the blending of Europe and the US into a large white entity and China knows it is not ready as the ascension of 300 millions Chinese to the middle class status will be met by war by liberal nations. At the moment, liberal nations are increasing their armament not to face Russia but to prepare the war against China.

"At a White House press conference, Trump rejected Brussels' “zero-for-zero” offer on car and industrial goods tariffs:

“No, it’s not enough… We have a deficit with the European Union of $350 billion and it’s gonna disappear fast.”

Trump said that deficit could be wiped out immediately if the EU buys an equivalent amount of U.S. energy:

“They can buy it… we can knock off $350 billion in one week.”

The ultimatum follows Trump’s announcement of 20% tariffs on the EU and minimum 10% tariffs on other trade partners, moves that have rocked global markets.

He also blasted the EU’s regulatory barriers, calling them “non-monetary tariffs” that block U.S. products through red tape and impossible standards."

Trump talking absolute bollocks again I see Draad.

He's certainly upsetting the status quo...

He's certainly upsetting the status quo...

Indeed though it seems crazy when the US benefited the most from the status quo.

Be abit like Liverpool who are 11 points ahead in the Premier League with 7 games to go asking for everyone's points to be reset including their own to make the end of the season more exciting.

"There is a chance things will come back to normal. There is also a chance countries like China may escalate."

They are escalating. Reciprocated tariffs, bans on poultry, suspending fentanyl cooperation, and...

Trump threatened an extra 50% yesterday and then followed through...totalling to 104%.

But China is not limiting this to a trade war. They're now partaking in a fully fledged financial war.

They know that Trump's aim is scare markets enough that they move away from risk and into US treasuries...ultimately forcing the Fed to cut rates.

So what does China do?

Have a look at the bond markets two days back...a massive green candle, something like 19bps if memory serves.

What happened?

China dumped $50 billion worth of US treasuries on the market....of which they still hold another $700 billion.

This forces interest rates back up so that a market flooded with treasuries is more inviting to buyers again.

Of course, that's not a game that China could sustain for very long because there does come a point where they end up shooting themselves in the foot.

China have also started weakening their currency against the US dollar. Another message to say that if you increase tariffs we'll just make the cost of our goods cheaper...because a Dollar is worth more in China this week than it was last week.

So, China is deploying a bunch of strategies.

For me, China have acted a touch too hastily. If you fire all your shots in the first five minutes of a battle, you have little/no ammo to achieve strategic goals in the longer term.

At this point, the US still have a good few aces up their sleeve while China have taken most of the swings they can.

Sure China could drop another $200 billion of US treasuries on the market, and that'll amount to greater short term pain, but it will be bought up...and then China are left with 33% less of something that took them a very long time to build up. It would be a massive foot shot.

Trumpanzees love shrieking "TDS" whenever anyone criticises their beloved master . . . but the real sufferers of "TDS" are those gullible half-wits who think Bozo has any business acumen or any understanding of economics.

All the AI & Chat Abc surely suggest that he's batshit ? He's responsible now for Japan, SKorea & China reaching out to each other. The Basil Fawlty of political leaders.

"ndeed though it seems crazy when the US benefited the most from the status quo.

Be abit like Liverpool who are 11 points ahead in the Premier League with 7 games to go asking for everyone's points to be reset including their own to make the end of the season more exciting."

No...a trade deficit is no benefit and neither is depending on imports for essential goods. Covid was an eyeopener.

TDS is 100% real.

One only needs to look at how Blo has been affected.

It's reaching retardation levels.

He despises, Trump, but it's literally all he can talk about.

When does one ever only talk about things or people you despise?

...when you have been mentally compromised by those things or people. That's when.

Imagine making 10 posts a day about someone you hate but still thinking your mind is functioning normally.

It's actually sad to watch.

Seriously Blo, you're not gonna change anybody's mind, nobody reads any of the articles you copy and paste...you know this, right?

Like, I hope you are aware the literally nobody reads any of it...not even the other Trump haters. You be lucky if they read 1/10th.

Really, you're only doing it to appease yourself

The question is, when you are partaking in such meaningless acts, so regularly, so openly, do you actually believe that what's happening in your mind is normal.

I promise you, it's not normal.

You need help boet.

Get some.

Of course, Elon Musk isn’t the only wingnut to own his own platform, so let’s play out with a genuine statement posted to Truth Social by the occupant of the Oval Office. “The United States has a chance to do something that should have been done DECADES AGO. Don’t be Weak! Don’t be Stupid! Don’t be a PANICAN (a new party based on Weak and Stupid people!). Be Strong, Courageous, and Patient, and GREATNESS will be a result”. Righto. Last week, Republican house speaker Mike Johnson declared: “You have to trust the president’s instincts on the economy, OK?” Do you trust in the instinct of the man who wrote the above word salad? Or do you, like rather a lot of people, find yourself slightly panican?

Marina Hyde is a Guardian columnist

No...a trade deficit is no benefit and neither is depending on imports for essential goods. Covid was an eyeopener.

Saying a trade deficit is not a benefit is overly simplistic, it's not inherently a good or bad thing. It's situational and involves trade offs.

As for importing essential goods, again pro's and con's. You can make the argument the US has become too dependent on imports and that could potentially compromise security and hence some local industries should be protected even if that causes prices to go up, but how far does the US want to go in this regard. Like it's probably possible for the US to achieve complete autarky (not saying they do) if it really wanted too but at the cost of a lower standard of living.

Agree Blob. Here's another article from the Financial Times that refers to Mike Johnson's ridiculous appeal:

We should trust in Donald Trump’s instincts, says Mike Johnson, Speaker of the House of Representatives. Alternatively, Johnson and his caucus should run screaming in the opposite direction. It is too late for Republicans to revert to being a normal party — belief in Trump is their organising principle. But they could play the loyalist by coaxing Trump off the ledge. In addition to their jobs, the future of the global economy, and every American’s retirement fund, depends on it.

Their task is complicated by the fact that Trump still thinks he is on to a winner. Try to stand in his shoes. From his 2011 Obama foreign birth conspiracy to his 2024 conviction as a felon, and so many points in between, Trump has almost annually been left for dead. But his phoenix keeps rising. Trump is a fantasist whose deepest-lodged fantasy — that he is an unstoppable champion — keeps coming true. Why would a little market turmoil stop him?

The starting point is that Trump is a hammer and the rest of the world, as well as half of America, is a nail. Sometimes the hammer can focus on select nails, or soften its blow, but he is always a hammer. That some of Trump’s closest backers, such as the New York hedge fund manager Bill Ackman, are surprised by his global tariff war is a mystery. Trump vowed in almost every single campaign speech to unleash the trade war we are now in.

He has been blaming foreigners for ripping off America since the mid-1980s. Note, his obsession was with Japan, not the Soviet Union. Trump has always been angriest with allies and friends. His deepest contempt is now reserved for Europe and Canada. Psychologists extrapolate from the estate settlement Trump tried to impose on his own siblings. If your instinct is to rip people off, including those closest to you, assume that is everyone’s method.

The mystery is why so many — from Ackman’s fellow billionaires to Florida-based Venezuelans — have bent over backwards to miss who Trump is. A trillion comments have been wasted accusing the wrong people of Trump derangement syndrome. The real TDS afflicts those who keep seeing a rational actor, or an economic chess game, where none exists. The whole market arguably suffers from this syndrome. Shortly after plummeting on Monday morning, a fake news release surfaced that said Trump would announce a pause on his tariffs this week. The markets more than erased their opening losses. All those gains, in turn, were wiped out when the White House issued a denial.

If an online meme can turn a bear market into a bull recovery in the space of a minute, and back again, Trump has the world in his palm. The merest rumour that he might be sane can trigger a buying frenzy. Roman emperors would envy the finger-crooking sway of one man. Yet at some point, possibly imminent, Trump could be forced to pause at least some of his “liberation day” duties. That will trigger a big relief rally. But his pause will be no surer than stray driftwood. The same might apply to his threats of a new 50 per cent tariff escalation on China.

Markets will cheer any hints of bilateral deals Trump plans to strike with more influential demandeurs — Japan, China and India should be closely watched. Investors should also pay heed to the fact that such deals will be struck between foreign governments and Trump personally, not his administration. The departments of Treasury, commerce and the US trade representatives are often out of the loop. Given the lack of boundary between Trump’s public role and private investments, the scope for non-trade-related bartering is great.

The idea that Trump’s impact will be limited to the goods-traded economy is also wishful thinking. Foreigners own a critical share of US Treasury debt. Continued high demand for an asset in whose issuer the world is losing trust is the difference between a Trump recession and a Trump depression. On this, Europe’s governments seem to have better instincts than the equity and fixed-income markets. Rather than escalate the trade war, the EU is mulling only a modest toolkit of retaliations. This is not because Brussels thinks Trump is likely to embrace comity. It is because it fears a tit-for-tat trade spiral will break the global financial system.

Either way, this teachable moment is needlessly belated. Trump’s sane-washers have forfeited their credibility. There is no school of foreign policy realism, or trade mercantilism, that could explain Trump’s actions. If you want to forecast the world, study his psychology. While Trump is in charge, stay short on America.

edward.luce@ft.com

Stav, it's simple arithmetic. If more flows out than comes back in, the country is getting poorer...but income from services should be part of that equation.

Stav, it's simple arithmetic. If more flows out than comes back in, the country is getting poorer...but income from services should be part of that equation.

As I said that's an overly simplistic argument.

What you seem to be missing is that when USD flow out of the US, invariable that USD gets reinvested back in the US as countries buy up US debt in the form of treasuries, be they Japanese, Chinese, UK or even Irish.

Aside from which even when running a trade deficit the US was not getting poorer, it was getting richer.

Yes US debt is increasing and long term that does need to be addressed, but Trump's plan appears to be making everything worse.

"What you seem to be missing is that when USD flow out of the US, invariable that USD gets reinvested back in the US as countries buy up US debt in the form of treasuries, be they Japanese, Chinese, UK or even Irish."

Yes, that's the whole problem. That is effectively borrowing money to make up for the deficit. That's why their debt is spiralling out of control and that's exactly why Trump is trying to fix it. It is exactly that simple.

But he's not going to fix it, he's going to make it worse.

"But he's not going to fix it, he's going to make it worse."

Here we go again, trying to pass off opinion as fact.

I can understand the Trumpanzees in America support Trump as it could bring back jobs to the US market.

However, why do people in other countries support him? These tariffs are going to cause a global recession and will have a negative impact on them. Yet these dolts love it.

The only possible explanation is that religious people genuinely believe that Trump was sent by God.

So he can do no wrong....The religious love this authoritarian strong man style leader, they are just not Democratic people who want to think for themselves.

Snark, if things continues like they've been doing the last decade or two, America will implode and collapse the world economy with it...if tariffs prevents the golden goose from being killed, then I'm prepared to suffer a bit in the short term.

However, why do people in other countries support him? These tariffs are going to cause a global recession and will have a negative impact on them. Yet these dolts love it.

The only possible explanation is that religious people genuinely believe that Trump was sent by God.

So he can do no wrong....The religious love this authoritarian strong man style leader, they are just not Democratic people who want to think for themselves.

Trump is a more or less a representation of their entire ideology and they have invested too much into it at point to back out. It's very easy to support a populist in another country because normally what they say and do doesn't have much of a direct impact on their lives or a small enough impact that it could ignored or explained away by some other factors. They can just revel in Trump annoying the libs.

First time around Trump's more outlandish and nutty policies were restrained by having some competent people around him to reign him in. This time around the guard rails are off and Trump is now completely unconstrained fee to enact whatever policies he wants. But if things continue like this the negatives will become impossible to ignore for all but the most ideological devoted where admitting they got it wrong is a nearly a faith worse than death.

Snark, if things continues like they've been doing the last decade or two, America will implode and collapse the world economy with it...if tariffs prevents the golden goose from being killed, then I'm prepared to suffer a bit in the short term.

The Goose putting a gun to its head, pulling the trigger and spraying everyone else with blood, brain matter and feathers is not going fix things.

Out of curiosity, how long is short term for you?

A couple of months, a year, two years, five years, ten years?