The World According to Klown . . .

I have numerous very strong arguments against religion, and in discussions in real life I have made a number of people question their beliefs. In my arrogance I saw this as a sort of affirmation of my intelligence. However, I recently got into such a discussion with my elderly and very religious parents. After nailing home a couple of convincing arguments, and seeing them sink in, I immediately regretted it. When you get to their age and experience deteriorating health, religion offers solace and piece of mind. In that discussion I made them question their beliefs and it caused visible inner conflict. I felt terrble after that.

With that in mind, I don't want to stop anyone from believing what they believe. But I am torn between a deep felt need to point out the blatant flaws in religion and the happiness and  contentment it brings to so many. 

I just wanted to throw that out there. 

Moz, to a large extent I agree with you. I don't believe we have the capacity to comprehend the divine or alternatively the complexity of the universe. But I very much question the ambiguity of religion and the inifinte distress that it causes. 

I don't agree Db, whatever the cause, God allowed the situation to be as it is. I'll single it down to one simple point. There are multiple religions, all with equal claim (and evidence) to being the word of God. And all claiming that any other religion is wrong. It is a massive contradiction. And there is no way to know for sure which one is correct. The cause may be man, but the end result is doubt, and that is God's fault...because he did not provide humanity with a divine book...only conflicting religions, each with their own corrupted version. 

Bluebok arrives on the scene with more drivel. He thinks because he can fool his senile parents he could debate a Prof John Lennox - who have the nutter for breakfast. 

Until you have your eyes open you not understand too much of the Bible and hence we have the breat taking stupidity of Rooitwit and sharkbokkie (joined now by Bluebok) as they stumble around in the dark. 

The heavens declare the Glory of GOD and there is absolute evidence for the CREATION. Just because you refuse to look at it doesn't mean it is not there.

Men prefer the darkness to the light. 

Of course you never truly believe until you have an encounter with the risen Christ. 

What ou blue blob should have some humility and understand that people far more intelligent than him have come to Christ and accepted the Bible as the very word of God once they have been able to understand it.

I know personally I could make no sense of the Bible before the born again experience and so I understand why rooitwit and Sharkbokkie make such amazingly stupid comments!

Come to Christ. Accept Him as Lord and Saviour and the scales will drop from your eyes. Until then the Kingdom of God is hidden from you. 

The Saviour laid down His life to purchase your pardon. Accept that free (to you) pardon and live or be judged for your sins. For there will a day of judgment. Choose life, why will ye perish!

By the way Antony Flew is not the only chest beating arrogant atheist who came to believe in God. And obviously he was far more intelligent than poor Blue blob. 

In the end every knee shall bow and tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is LORD. That is they will have no choice but to acknowledge REALITY. 

Beans you complete idiot. I am not an atheist. Very Christian of you to insult my Christian parents, who I have just mentioned are in declining health. You really are the greatest advocate for people turning away from Christianity. Keep it up...doos! 

By the way Matt Dillahunty is not the only chest beating arrogant christian to turn to Atheism.

Are we going to play a numbers game?

Yes Bl ue, you are arguing about God as if He is a political party AND AS IF ALL THE THINGS HUMANS SAY ABOUT HIM IS EITHER TRUE OR FALSE.

I say that God engrained Himself in our DNA and we can either choose Him or reject Him...and by rejecting Him, I mean rejecting your conscience. 

Blue, do you have kids?  

Sader, forget about Christians ATM. What was it that Jesus said or did that pissed you off. Was it the turning the other cheek thing? ...or the forgive thy neighbor??? What wassit that got you so angry?

Geez Draad again with the angry shit?

When will you get it through your head non believers are not angry at your made up friend. 

Maybe its more to do with the arrogance of you lot who keep telling us what god is and what he wants, none of you know shit about a god let alone what he wants of us if he does exist. I know you and your kind struggle to understand the fact that most people dont believe your nonsense but get over it. Your religion is no better or worse than any of the other religions out there, why should I believe you and choose your version?

I am sorry draad but I cannot believe any of christianity is true but its not my fault as god made me this way apparently.

Rooi, I never cite scripture to prove something...and I think I've ever quoted a verse once and that was in jest....and as for my anger...I don't get angry that often, but when I do, it's got nothing to do with religion or someone else's opinion on something, but all to do with someone being a real d!ck.

1. Sader you react like an angry person...bit let's forget that for a moment. Let me change the question. What about how Jesus lived and what he tought (allegedly) don't you like?
2. Do you believe in a Historical Jesus?
   
3. Is everything written in the Bible BS or are there some historical truths?

Of course there are some historical truths like Bethleham exists and they had mangers back in the day but the resurection and the healing of the sick by magic not at all. Genesis is complete bollocks and thats the first page.

Was there a person called jesus that went around preaching, maybe possible, was he the son of god, unlikely  because as far as I can tell there is no god so a bit hard for an imaginery being to have a son

I dont have a problem with love and peace and treat others well, in fact I like to think I follow those principles as they are a human trait not a gods command. Dont need a religion to have morals as proven by beeno as he has religion and no morals so he proves I am correct on this as far as I am concerned.

I have a question for you Draad, how do you know that the bible is gods word, and why should I believe it is. All I have is some people telling me it is but with not one shread of evidence it is anything but myths told by uneducated desert dwellers

I have a question for you Draad, 1 how do you know that the bible is gods word, and 2 why should I believe it is. 

1. Faith and personal XP

2. You will believe it when you need to. I'm not asking you to believe anything. It is what it is, regardless of your belief.

Well personal experience and faith tell me the bible/god is a load of cobblers so that shows how completely unreliable and useless they are.

When will I need to believe it? Millions of people have gone to the grave not believing it and I am 99.9% certain I will be one of them as well, Does that mean I just dont need your god or your god doesnt give a shit about me (and millions of others)?

Poking Draad Trekker with a stick is great fun 

Pity the same can't be said about his father as his message is mass genocide and enslavement of all but the favoured few.

Also just because you believe it does not make it true either.

Pity the same can't be said about his father as 1.his message is mass genocide and enslavement of all but the favoured few.

2. Also just because you believe it does not make it true either.

1. Perspective ??? Enslavement?

2. That wasn't my argument. 

1) The bible clearly supports genocide and the keeping of slaves so therefore if its the word of god then god supports both. I dont see what is so hard for you to understand about this. 

If you want an education on this part search for Matt Dillahunty and slavery on youtube. He quotes the passages in the bible that refer to this.

2) No it wasn't your argument but your statement "You don't need to believe anything for it to be true" it works both ways you know, just because you believe something does not make it true either. 

It's funny. Atheists and agnostics are so often just as ignorant in their argumrnts as what they claim religious people are for believing.

Your faith that the world is as you believe it to be, is still faith.

You might say that you are open to new information, and you very well might be. 

You're still operating on a paradigm based on the faith that what you know thus far is true...for now.

Being open to new information just means you're willing to shift your paradigm.

At no point does faith in information become irrelevant. And you base your world view on it.

Pick on Draad all you like but at least his a world view encompasses various angles. That's what leads to understanding.

Thanks for at least seeing that Plum.

You don't need to be narrow minded if you are a Christian and some Atheists are very narrow minded.

I should probably stop replying to the baiting, but what would be the fun in that?

Sader, do you work for a living?...If you are, you are a slave in Biblical terms. 

Draad

Anyone trying to shit on what you believe is just really showing how insecure they are in what they believe. 

Just like the guy trying to tell you how smart he is, how strong he is, how happy he is, how whatever he is.

Its easy to pretend you're content with something. Much tougher to actually believe it yourself.

Plum, I'm INTP on Myers-Briggs...bordering on ENTP...and I have quite severe adult ADHD....In short, I'm compulsively connecting dots all the time and I can smell BS a mile off.

Things need to make sense.

I have no faith in how I see the world, I have facts to support what I believe, I do not have all the facts but at least I have some, something which christians cannot claim to have. Faith is no reason to believe anything.

And yes Draad I work for a living, but are you trying to tell me working for a living is the same as being a slave? I tell you what go tell the descendants of the slave trade that slavery is a fine thing as their ancestors were just employees and they only worked a 40 hour week and got 4 weeks holiday a year along with a decent wage, they were free to quit and go work somewhere else if they wanted. They got a nice 4 bedroom house to live in with clean sheets and if they wanted a rest they wouldn't get beaten with a whip

Fuck man you are seriously deluded if your idea of slavery is just working for a living with all the rights of a free man. Is there anything you will not say or believe just because it puts your bible in a bad light. Next you will be telling me a sto ning for working on the sabath isnt that bad its not like they are using bolders just small rocks.

Draad I actually own my own company and have employees, does that mean I am a slave master?

Plum so that explains why so many christians are trying to convince us to convert to their belief.

I get plenty of religious nutters knocking on my door try to convert me but never had an a theist turn up to. Are you telling me that all christians are therefore insecure in their beliefs?

Plum says some amazing truths and does have good reasoning powers but I don't intend to flatter him.

He once said that in a way, we are all hypocrits...that is very true, we all are guilty because of fallen man but some are more hypocritical than others.

The paradox though is that unbelievers are in most cases are more hypocritical in what I've observed without prejudice...it is this tendancy that they use as an excuse to be heathen...they think it is valid and justifies what they believe or more aptly to not believe.

It is just a smoke screen or red herring because a true believer does not look to man at all as a leader or mentor teacher at all...he knows you cannot trust any man, we are all fallen and "people worship" is very misleading and dangerous. You can only follow a perfect flawless Figurehead, who is not fallen and flawed.

You cannot blame your unbelief because some Christians errors, that is no excuse as there is only One that ticks all boxes and that is Christ alone, the perfect one.

"Apr 08, 2019, 10:39