Us Excess death rates due to Covid

TRUMP VIDICATED, A COMMON REFRAIN!

KEEP AN EYE ON THE ELECTION FRAUD BIT TOO OAKS. AUDITS BREAKING OUT ALL OVER THE PLACE AND FRAUD BEING FOUND. 

RIGHT NOW IT LOOKS LIKE PRESIDENT TRUMP WILL YET AGAIN BE VINDICATED. 

Bozo vindicated because he knew Wuhan was in China. What a genius!

LMAO!

I'll repeat, Bozo is a twice impeached one term failure who will go down in history as the worst US president of all time as well as the person more responsible than any other for the Trumpvirus exploding the way it has.

Vindicate that you brainwashed little morons!

There is an article in the Wall Street Journal quoting an intelligence report that 3 Wuhan lab workers were hospitalized with Covid like symptoms in November 2019. Possibly the first cluster of Covid.

Set aside the notion that it was done deliberately, the possibility that it originated in the Wuhan lab has never been debunked and looks more likely than ever.

"Ou Maaik, then say so, dumbo. 

I don't waste time with low-class liars so don't bother addressing me in future."

LMAO!....the poor dear is almost hysterical. 

SB

There was a report a while back emanating from returned people that there is no wet market selling live animals in Wuhan    Only fish is being sold at the market  about 600 meters from  the  laboratory.     That was apparently also confirmed by reports from Hong Kong,  That was one of the reasons why the origin of the virus from the market was distrusted by many people who did not believe the story given out by the Chinese Government.   

The other problem with the Chinese explanation was that  they never said from which animal the virus came.

There was also a  Nobel Price winner who isolated and identified the virus causing polio,  as well as specialists  from India .and the University of Hong King  who claimed that the virus could not be going from infected animals to humans without it be engineered in a laboratory,  

All the information was withheld  from publication or broadcasted by the media in the USA, because of a backlash fear against the Chinese.              

Hot water either way, Moz

Were it an accidental escape and China were honest from the get-go, perhaps sharing what they knew about the virus as well, we would likely have shaved lots of time off of the period of figuring out what to do AND perhaps saved a substantial amount of lives too.

Instead, the global community had to figure out in real time who was most at risk and what treatments worked best. Basically, the workload that GOF research is meant to preempt and ease.

I'm not gonna pretend to know the answer, but it wouldn't surprise me if some would see such an omission as an act of war.

The American view on China has always been to buy time....get through the current generation, hope that the next one will be less radical. The big risk is Taiwan....the equivalent of Poland in 1939.

Probably a million miles away but if Covid could be leveraged to get over a billion people out from under communism...that would be a win.

"Probably a million miles away but if Covid could be leveraged to get over a billion people out from under communism...that would be a win."

Don't start thinking like the CIA...the Chinese should sort themselves out. In an odd way, their society functions very well, and replacing the status quo with a Western type free democracy might backfire badly.

There are concentration camps full of Mulsim people that would disagree, Draad.

Not sure if you know but it' s been reported that the Uighur muslim population has a lower birth rate than the Jews during WW2...IE extermination.

I'm not ok with that.

Another new development - the Senate is preparing  by-partition Bill banning the transfer of US tax dollars to laboratories  in China  - but the horse had already bolted.    

China Joe will not sign any Bill into law containing anything unacceptable to his bosses from Beijing. What will happen is that Biden's handlers will reduce the Bill to nothing material and send it back to the Senate for reconsideration and that would be unacceptable to the Republican Senators, It would then be impossible to get support from 60 Senators to pass anything. This would be nothing new - Obama did it with the Bill against Insider Trading and it was dead on arrival back ion the Senate an is still dead,

The problem with the Insider Trading Bill was that it would criminalize the activities of  Obama himself and th Democrat Senators and House members that was enriching themselves  through insider trading  turning them into instant millionaires - the latter reason is that Biden himself  would be in trouble  since his China corruption could cause problems for him and his colleagues,   

I'm not OK with it either, much more pressure should be put on China, but anything too radical might lead to the same chaos as in Syria,  but more than 50 times larger...catastrophic!

My cousin has been living in China for a number of years. He's visiting South Africa ATM and we had a looong kuier a few weeks ago. Very complex setup, but it works for them. I would not be able to function there, but crime is low and cost of living much cheaper than here. He's probably going to be stranded in South Africa for a while, only citizens allowed to get back in...and a foreigner can never become a citizen...residency is always short term too.

China certainly has a Coronavirus problem.
In the last 20 years, there has been SARS, MERS, and COVID.  

They need to cooperate with the global world on health issues while providing transparency into their viral research. 
If they do not do this, economic sanctions will have to be applied. They can keep made in China, in China.

Not all Chinese people are to blame of course, but it is the CCP the world has to deal with. 

Wet markets selling wild animals are still active in Wuhan, and this is against the WHO guidelines.

SB

The treasonous bastard now pretending  to the President of the USA - but who have been bribed by China has  now on instruction from Beijing, stopped the  investigation of the State Department  into the Wuhan laboratory's  tole in the COVI 19  virus .    The apparent deal was that China will not attack Taiwan provided  the  US stopped the investigation.

Well if that’s the real deal it would be a good one....I’d accept Taiwan’s sanctity in return for not embarrassing China re their rogue behavior on Covid (Plu m’s argument).. Trouble is ...can you believe the Taiwan part?

What is said in public to the press and what is instructed in private are two very different things...especially in politics...Biden and his son have much to answer for about their dealings in China and the Ukraine...don't place too much on what's paraded in the media...Biden has been caught up in big lies in 2 prior presidential bids...he's still the same liar...the never Trumpers are deliberately ignoring this elephant though...

I never said I would accept the ‘bargain’, because fundamentally I don’t believe China. Is that confusing? But defined your way pretty much all diplomacy is blackmail. 

The US certainly has superior technology...but much of that is projected through an old fleet of aircraft carriers that are very vulnerable. Witness the Falklands.

I’m afraid downplaying the risk of Taiwan is massively naive...the Economist recently called it the most dangerous place on earth. Once one of the Super Powers is humiliated, ruling out a nuclear response isn’t possible. 

That of course was the motivation for Trump’s smart policy on China. Cut them down to size economically....making them the negotiating party who were obligated to perform.

Sadly the media and the European softies never saw the big picture.

Stav

You still does not realize what is going on here,   Closing  the State Department investigation means no liaison  with foreign countries  who would have information  on the situation that could clarify  what happened.    

Your idea about trade wars is really warped and there were no real trade wars ever,   What Trump  did was to raise import duties  in cases where countries raise import duties on US products - that is merely leveling the playing field and was never a trade war.   Atrade Wat entails  what?   

I had a look and found the following description of what a trade war really entails:-

A trade war happens when one country retaliates against another by raising import tariffs or placing other restrictions on the other country's imports.

Trade wars can commence if one country perceives that a competitor nation has unfair trading practices. Domestic trade unions or industry lobbyists can pressure politicians to make imported goods less attractive to consumers, pushing international policy toward a trade war. Also, trade wars are often a result of a misunderstanding of the widespread benefits of free trade.

If there was indeed a trade war in terms of the above definition is was started  decades ago with  countries charging import duties  on  American products - while their own exports to the USA  were not subject to similar duties in the USA,   That can be regarded as unfair  trading practice by other countries. as well.   There were no  bans placed om any imports from Europe.   So in essence of what the media regards as trade wars are misleading and in fact total BS..      

As to the Biden presidency - there will be zero response by Biden to an attack on Taiwan,   The Chinese have details about corruption involving $1,5 billion paid into Biden's sons company that would put Biden in jail and he would always obey their commands.    That is not a conspiracy theory - it actually happened that the money was paid for share buying  after Biden took his son with him to China on US Air Force  2.    The issue was  never dealt with in the media since it would have discredited Biden in the election - but it did really happen and the Chinese have the full details about it,              

It appears that China has the "trump" card on Biden...no pun intended in the context. A puppet on a string and he will dance to their tune.

There was a headline recently about American's being targeted by "energy weapons".

I'm sure there is enough secretly developed weaponry in the super power's inventory that we can't really speculate on what a war between China and the US would look like.

What of bio-weaponry? If anything, the last year has taught us that viruses pose a real threat. 

Herr Goebbels would have been proud of he present media  - they are not news media anymore - they have followed his example and  are now propaganda  tools.   News is only used if  it  fits  in with their propaganda narrative - otherwise it is not reported at all,  

In recent years the narrative has been in the USA  to become the big lie,    Trump indicated he wanted an end to the endless war in Afghanistan and wanted to withdrew the US troops from the conflict,     The armaments industry and the Democratic Party were against it,   So a lie was created that Putin was paying the Taliban a bounty on every soldier they kill.   It was trumpeted  all over the show and despite denials by the Defense Department and the CIA that it  did  happen, it became firmly established by the media that the lie was true.   

The aftermath was weirdly funny -   Biden in his idiocy used the Russian payment of ounties on US soldiers as a major reason for imposition of sanctions. on Russia - despite denials that it ever happened,      

I would love to be a fly on the wall when Putin meets Biden.   Putin will play pingpomg  with the idiot since he knows what really happened about Biden and his son involvement in the Ukraine and the  Unranium 1 Share sales to a Russian State-owned  Company.    Russia will use Biden for their own purpose and if he does not abide they will threaten him with exposure  - same as China does already.  .                                        

Stav

Stav, ou Maaik's opening line "you still does not realize what is going on here" should have been a red flag . . . but I see you actually went ahead and read his hopelessy biased and ignorant post anyway.

I seriously think you're wasting your time. Ou Maaik is not only fundamentally stupid, he's also brainwashed, biased, stubborn and to top it all, he's a serial liar.

Good luck making any progress there . . . you'll need it!

Fair enough, Stav, but I've posted here long enough to know how well brainwashed half-wits like Baboon-ou and ou Maaik respond to reason .

Also, note that I've  never been overly insulting to either ou Maaik or Baboon-ou. I always tone it down a lot so as not to hurt their feelings. I could be a heck of a lot more insulting and abusive towards both of them but deep down I'm a kind and patient person so I never give them both barrels.

In the Falklands war the Brits lost 3 Destroyers to the ancient Exocet  missile. That was 40 years ago, much more dangerous missiles can now be launched from small mobile vessels. Expecting the US to police the Far East with  aircraft carriers is naive. It’s a huge risk. A conventional war with China in their own backyard would make Vietnam look like an Irish Rugby match.

The US has a limited aircraft carrier fleet. The Journal reports this morning that the Ronald Reagan has been redeployed to cover the Afghanistan withdrawal, leaving the US with no carrier in the Western Pacific. How much negotiating room do you think that gives the Committee called Biden in the interim?

Much of the globalist view rests on American invulnerability....your silly idea that China is not a problem. It is and the world needs to deal with it economically....the Trump doctrine.

As for a deal on Taiwan, it would be great....but I wouldn’t trust it. The only deal on Taiwan which will stick is the one where we put more at risk. Like China’s trade with the West. But we have already made ourselves so dependent that’s hard to do and we are making it worse by rushing into alternative energy sources, where China again is strong....abandoning fossil fuels where America is strong.

Nothing as naive as a globalist.

I know there were  problems  with agreements  that caused major problems for the USA    In the first instance Obama negotiated  the NAFTA agreement with Canada and Mexico that was highly detrimental to the USA - after major companies started with moves to move factories to especially Mexico to benefit from lower wages  and then import the products duty free into the USA.  Tens of thousands of US workers lost their jobs or was on the point of losing their jobs.   Trump tore up the agreement  because it bolstered  unfair trading  conditions and was to the detriment of the USA.    In the absence of a trade deal there could have been some Canadian and Mexicam products  being affected - but a new deal was signed after negotiations that protected the interests of all three countries,      

The   same happened with  the deal that Obama  signed  with China,   In discussions  with China on the issue Trump pointed out the problems he had with the trade agreement  and they admitted  it was a problem for the USA - but nobody in the US delegation ever mentioned anything about the issues that Trump raised.    In other words the US negotiating team was totally stupid and the Chinese took them for a ride.   A new deal was negotiated  but got stalled by Covid 19.

There can in my mind be a problem with trade if \industrialists move factories to other countries to benefit from cheap labor and from the fact that unions in countries like China has no real  strength - so wages  near to slave labor could be paid and there would be nop consequences  for scrupulous employers,.     

There is one thing that Trump did that was not acceptable locally and that was import from steel from SA  that did not op down well locally and there was also dumping  of chicken meat buy the US in SA  that nearly killed the local chicken farming  enterprises.- but on the whole SA  was not really detrimentally affected by any action  by  the Trump administration.    In the case of US-SA trade there  is an agreement  covering trade issues  between African countries = SA is party to that deal that promote trade between the USA and Africa as a whole and SA in .  particular.

There is no trade deal between the  EU  and the USA and there are products from the  USA  that are subject to  import duties by individual EU countries  on US products -  eg France where duty free wine was exported to the USA.

In the end I still do not agree with you on the trade war issue,  Most of  the above quotes deals with  China  and unfortunately deals with China is lob-sided in their favor,     A dictatorship like China is  not fair in anything related to trade,    I would never take the  side  of China on anything trade or otherwise.   Supporting China  is the end of  democracy  and freedom of people in the word.    

How can you claim Biden  that the amount of  S1,5 blllion  to  Hunter Biden's is baloney?   Biden did take his son with him  on US Airforce 2 hen he went to Beijing to finalize the aborted trade agreement with China,    There are hundreds photos of Bidena nd his sone leacing the plane after landing in China.   There is proof  that the money was paid  into the account of Hunter Biden's company,    There is proof that the money was used for  purchase of a  company making undercarriages for defense force planes.    The fact is that when the CEO of Hunter  Biden's  company ask Biden how they got away with the things they do Biden answered  "through denials" ,    Hunter Biden is addicted to drugs and was kicked out of the US Navy fir that reason,     If you think that Biden was not involved in negotiations about  the $1,5 billion very real investment    and believe his statement  that  he was not at all involved  you would also believe that the moon is made of green cheese/    

Fact is Biden has a long history of corruption  while holding office as a Senator and  Deputy  President using his position to enrich his family - whether you believe it or not.    Abd both the Russians and the Chinese have him by the shorts and he will effectively do nothing to act against them.                   

In the Falklands war the Brits lost 3 Destroyers to the ancient Exocet  missile. That was 40 years ago, much more dangerous missiles can now be launched from small mobile vessels. Expecting the US to police the Far East with  aircraft carriers is naive. It’s a huge risk. A conventional war with China in their own backyard would make Vietnam look like an Irish Rugby match.

Nice try Mozart but destroyers are not carriers, just admit your error rather than moving the goal posts to whole different class of ship in terms of size and capability to a to destroyer. By the way the British only lost two destroyers in the Falkands and yes missiles have become more destructive since then but there is no comparison between the relative strength between the British task force that sailed to retake the Falklands the the naval power the US could bring to Taiwan. Anti missile technology have also improved since 40 years ago and I'm sure the American's have proper early warning systems unlike the British at the time. Human error was also a factor in the loss of one of the British destroyers and while that affect the American's as well it could also effect the Chinese with far more limited naval resources just as easily.

If America is not going to intervene in the far east, why do they have all these carriers and airbases around the world for. Are they only going to be used to kerb stomp third world countries like Afghanistan or in the extremely unlikely event some country decides its going to invade mainland US some day?

Absolutely a war between the US and China would be a huge risk, but it would be considerably more risk for China. It would be unlikely overtake Vietnam as its difficult to see how it would escalate into a ground war. Its unlikely China has the ability to get hundreds of thousands of troops to Taiwan and America isn't going to invade mainland China, it would remain limited to naval and air warfare. The main risk would come from escalation to nuclear war. But again China would taking an awful risk by trying to invade China, they would have to pray either America backs down, or if it doesn't they somehow beat them conventionally and American would be willing to accept that. Even if no other nation was in America corner when it came to the fighting, the western world would instantly stopped trading with China.

"The US has a limited aircraft carrier fleet. The Journal reports this morning that the Ronald Reagan has been redeployed to cover the Afghanistan withdrawal, leaving the US with no carrier in the Western Pacific. How much negotiating room do you think that gives the Committee called Biden in the interim?"

Its 11 to 2 in America's favor.  As for the Ronald Reagan you know its a ship, it could simply sail back to the Western Pacific right? As I said America no doubt has China under continued satellite surveillance and would see any build up well in advance of it taking place. Its not something the Chinese can just arrange over night.

"Much of the globalist view rests on American invulnerability....your silly idea that China is not a problem. It is and the world needs to deal with it economically....the Trump doctrine."

Once again you claim to know my world view and once again your wrong. I never claimed America is not invulnerable and China has taken a more aggressive posture of late that needs to countered but like many on the right your view is clouded by an exaggerated fear of a foreign enemy that  forever seem to be just around the corner. Seems America must always must have someone to fear, first it was communist Russia, then Islamic terrorists and now it communist China.

Trump probably doesn't even know what the word doctrine means. Its clear Trump would have only too happy to sign a trade deal with China but for Covid but he needed to blame China for covid to distract from his incompetent handling of Covid. Trump had a simplistic view of trade, all other countries in the world should be buying at least the same amount of goods from America if not more than America buys from them. To that end he slapped tariffs on goods from a whole range of countries, not just China to try to achieve that. He didn't give a shit about  anything other than getting the Chinese to buy more goodz from America and stopping its copyright theft (which most of the rest of the world support, just not Trumps methods).

"He didn't give a shit about  anything other than getting the Chinese to buy more goodz from America and stopping its copyright theft"

Exactly...as he should...most of the rhetoric was just showmanship for his base...he is an entertainer after all.

Trump know more about trade and economic affairs  than the whole Democratic Party would ever know.   And  the fact is that Biden is a fool and know nothing about anything and is a corrupt individual as well.    Sorry to differ - you hate  Trump because he is not a Globalist  - I hate Biden as I hate all crooked politicians.

By the way   Biden has no option but  to  retain the sanctions  Trump implemented  because he would be regarded  as a sell-out to China.    That does not mean the sanctions  is administratively applied.    In the meantime he canceled the sanctions iro  that pipeline construction from Russia,  Just ask yourself  the question why did he do that?

"about what Trump in his rather simplistic understanding of trade thought was good economics for America."

He's got an economics degree from the same school where Elon Musk got his...and unlike what most talking heads in the media would acknowledge, he's quite a successful businessman...I think he understands trade a bit better than most...

Not that I mind Biden's politburo's bumbling ...the Rand has strengthened quite considerably against most currencies since Trump was ousted...net gain for South Africa...on the short haul though...