What is going on in UK Parliamentary Election

It is clear that at this stage the real sufferers in the UK election is the Labour Party  there popularity since the 2017 election has gone down by 13%.   The real reason is that is becoming another Fringe Party because of their extreme leftist leader.   

The Party that is supposed to make election gains is the Lib-Dems - but will it happen?   The fact is that the British election allows for first past the post.   Some Conservative MP's has gone over to them and some of the Labour members as well, but will they get first past the post.   In some constituencies they could but due to opposition split in most they will be also rans,   

The problem is that the Brexit  Party will not nominate candidates in constituencies previously won by the Conservatives, but they will in Labour and Lib-Dem constituencies and that will split the vote in those constituencies.   The Conservatives might stay out of a lot of those constituencies - since they are no-hopers there and the C onservative vote and those of dissatisfied Labour members - who voted for Brexit in huge numbers  - will likely go for the Brexit Party than to the Labour and Lib-Dem parties. That could end up with a substantial Brexit Party membership in Parliament.

Some of the Conservative Party members who opposed Brexit and led the revolt in the CP against the Brexit agreement may find them out of nomination as candidates and that would mean a more united Conservative Party,      .                     

I am not a fan of Corbyn. Compared to say Tony Blair he is average at best and a socialist at worst. 

At this stage, I am supporting the conservatives as I just have more faith in Boris Johnston as a person. 

Leaving the EU may be better for Britain. 

My main concern is the risk that the Torrie Leaders want to leave the EU to protect the billionaire landowners (e.g. House of Lords) and not the majority. Many of the richest people in the UK avoid any tax by using places like Switzerland etc to store their money. Some of the recent changes in EU legislation would make this practice much harder for member EU countries. 

The rich and the crooks will always find ways and means to crook the government out of taxation - whether they are in the EU or not,  The  tax havens include Monaco and the Channel Islands - not so?

Stav

I agree with you - but the Labour Party has a anchor that is pulling them down in Corbyn - too dangerous to be trusted to govern as he is too far to the left of even the Labour Party.    The fact is we do know that the first past the post rule can sink the CP in constituencies and that is why they could help sink the CP and put Labour in Government,  That would be the first enemy of most Brexit supporters and they will accept the Brexit agreement - but w hether it will ever be fully implemented remains to be seen if Johnson wins the election.      

Your right about Corbyn being an anchor that's sinking Labour. He's generally been weak at the dispatch box, comes across as a grumpy old man in interviews, doesn't work well with other party leaders, has basically fought against his own party on its Brexit position and failed to deal with anti antisemitism issues in the Labour Party, but at the same time the right wing UK media have gone out of their way to portrait him as outright communist. He's left wing for sure but there is a lot of scare mongering about him and Labour at the same time.

There is almost next to no chance of Labour majority being returned unless dead bodies fall out of Johnson's closet or something. Most likely scenario is a Tory win, with the question being whether they get a majority or not or if there will be more remain MP's in parliament than leave.

Stav

I listened for a short while to Sky News yesterday and from what I could make out the CP is not going to nominate candidates in Labour-held constituencies where the Brexit vote was in the majority,  That sounds to me like an informal pact between Johnson and Farage  that could damage the Labour Party badly.

Apparently nominations closed today and more clarity on the issue may be in the emdia already.        

The tribe has spoken...leave they must.

@DbDraad.....why must they leave. If you can't change your mind you don't live in a democracy.

They have agreed a withdrawal agreement with the EU so if the Conservatives get into power they will leave but that's fine from the EU perspective now that the withdrawal agreement is in place.

Hilariously Johnson completely capitulated to the EU. His way of getting rid of the dreaded backstop was to make it the front-stop. He's utterly shafted the Northern Ireland unionists and put a border down the Irish Sea. Effectively put up a boarder in his own country. In effect Ireland/EU has economically annexed Northern Ireland. The economic analysis is that is his withdrawal agreement is worse than May's withdrawal agreement. A 6% hit to economy instead of 4%. Of course

What Brexiteers don't get is that even with an withdrawal agreement and leaving at the end of January Brexit is not over. There will be years of negotiating a trade deal with the EU now and to get that trade deal they are effectively going to achieve a self fulfilling prophecy. The idea was that Brexit was going to take back control from the pesky EU bureaucrats but if the UK wants a trade deal with the EU its going to have to agree to EU rules and standards to get it. Except the UK will now have no say in those rules and standards. They will become economically a vassal state of the EU. The lie was that the UK had no power in the EU, yet the single market was largely designed by the UK. The UK has successfully opted out of the Euro, out of Schengen  Area and negotiated a large rebate. Of all the EU laws and regulations passed the UK voted in favor of them 97-98% of the time. 

But with Brexit that was always going to happen. Either economic vassalage with a deal or economic devastation with no deal. Oh and throw in the break up of the UK as an added consequence.

@sharkbok

The overwhelming population of the south wanted a united Ireland, although I think a few in the South might be shocked at what it will cost economically but even still I doubt that would dissuade many. Ireland officially renounced its claim on the North as part of GFA and the only way of achieving a United Ireland is if the majority of the population in the North vote for it, which would trigger a vote in the South as well, which would no doubt pass.  

Demographic trends have the nationalist population becoming the majority in the next 10-20 years so at that stage a united Ireland is likely.

Brexit will likely speed the process up, as some less committed Unionists who were against Brexit might switch sides while other Unionists are going feel betrayed by UK government over this Withdrawal agreement . If the UK does start diverging from the EU, Belfast will more and more have to turn to Dublin/Brussels when it comes to economic matters. Considering at this point NI is on a different island to the UK mainland, has to go through border checks to get into the UK and Dublin/Brussels controls its trade policy at what point does it become part of the UK in name only.

Stavanger, ofcourse one can change your mind, but in effect the politicians ignored an election result because they didn't like it...

I don't really know much about what's going on over there and I don't really care either...but it is glaringly obvious that the alt left are ignoring election results that go against them...both in the USA and the UK....they know what's good for the plebs...sad.

"Posted by: sharkbok (10087 posts)

Draad if you don't know or care, why post your far right-wing conspiracy BS? Try thinking instead of regurgitating dogma"

WTF?

Are you better off lashed to a corpse? Germany is the worst positioned major economy in the world and southern Europe is a basket case. Britain would be better off on it's own, but it won't be.....new opportunities will present themselves.

The new tactic of the left in the US and the UK is to simply delay any changes promoted by the winning right, through any legal tactics possible. No matter if it makes a mockery of democracy and the great institutions of government.

There is no reason to vote again, without even implementing the first vote....there are no negative outcomes or significant new data points.

I watched quite a bit of news on Sky today.   The fact is that the working class according to surveys are now more inclined to vote for the Conservatives than to vote for Labour.   They are the ones who voted for Brexit in the referendum  and caused the upset result,   They interviewed  Trade Union leader from the 1980's and he said he is now going to vote for the CP for the first time in his life.

The interviewed the owner and workers in a fish packing plant in Grimsby and all of them said they are finished with the Labour Party.   The act is that it is the working class that was neglected in Europe and in the USA  and revolted against the political and media elite in 2016 and it s going on even more so than in 2016.

The EU is an political elite-based organization and the recent elections in Germany and Spain indicates a similar revolt.   In Spain last week the VOX Party - another worker-based party who had no members in the Cortez before the initial election  in May 2019 - got 24 members in the May election.   Since the Socialists did not have enough votes to survive a new election was called in November and the VOX Party won 28 further seats and is now by some distance the third biggest Party in Spain.  The problem is the sam e in Spain as it was in Germany where the GfD now has 96 members in the Reichstag  where before the latest election they had none.

The whole scenario from a political perspective is changing and I am afraid that the socialist and center elites are not going to survive for long and if they do it will only be representing the new elite coming out of Universities.

I see the Conservatives and the Brexit Party is not going to fight each other,   They are combining to go all out for the Labourites and Liberals.     

@DbDraad

When you say politicians ignored the election result I think you mean to say referendum result, but that isn't true either because if it was they would of never voted overwhelming (498 to 114) to trigger article 50, the process of the UK leaving the EU. They also have now voted for a withdrawal agreement albeit at the 4th time of asking.  For the majority of time between those two events, leave had the majority in parliament, but the leave side was never able to unite behind a deal or leaving with no deal. The MP's representing  remain constituencies were by and large always going to continue to push for remain, that's how democracy work.

Its absolutely fine to say I don't know much about the topic, nothing wrong with that, but I do find it odd you then go on to post an opinion on said topic.

@sharkbok

I think your being overly aggressive to DbDradd in making your point. He did not post far right conspiracy BS. What he actually posted is actually the common point of view of the right wing in the UK. Its the narrative that's been pushed by a lot of the right wing controlled UK media, the likes of the Daily Mail, Daily Express and the Sun.

@mozart

The overwhelming majority of economic forecasts and assessments from financial institutions, rating agencies, think tanks, governments and the like from around the world all are pretty much unanimous in saying the the UK would be better of staying  in the EU than leave from an economic point of view.  

Had the leave side been united around a single version of Brexit, the UK would be already out of the EU by now and there isn't nothing (remain or the left if you want to call them that) could have done about it. But that was never going to happen because Brexit was never defined before the vote, it could never have been or leave would never have won.  To the voters, leave could be Johnson's deal, it could be May's deal, a Norway style deal, it could be remaining in the customs union, it could be no deal, it could be Canada+ or Super Canada+ etc etc. Once leave won the vote all these competing versions of Brexit had to fight for supremacy. 

As for no reason to vote again. There is plenty. Just to name a few.

The vote leave campaign broke referendum spending rules. Independent polling has shown remain has held a consistent lead since the referendum. Aforementioned majority of economic assessments and forecast from both within and outside the UK show the UK economy will take a significant economic hit from Brexit. The creation of economic border within the UK's own internal territory. 

To suggest there no negative outcomes or significant new data points is simply not a credible argument at this point.

"@DbDraad

When you say politicians ignored the election result I think you mean to say referendum result,..."

Yes, indeed that's what I meant. I also find it odd that a mere majority vote would be enough for something of such magnitude. I would have thought that at least a 2/3 or 75% majority would be required...odd to say the least.

 @DbDraad 

In fairness I think a 2/3 or 75% majority could be seen as setting an impossibly high bar. 

Congrats to Mike and Moz who understand the situation.

Stav is a left wing marxist /globalist loon desperate to be ruled by the failing EU elites in Brussels. Desperate for the British sovereignty to be stripped away and hoping like anything that the open borders invasion will continue - its obviously a great delight to him that foreigners make up the majority in London and how nice to have a muslim mayor. He probably thinks the Danes are horrid to put up a border against the Swedes to stop terror entering their country. No wonder the Sweden democrats are forging ahead after over 100 bombings!

Mike the latest poll shows the Tories with a massive 17 point lead over marxist Corbyn's Labour.Party. Should the Tories and Brexit party form a sensible coalition estimates are they will have a 100 seat majority.

As part of the deal Boris promised he would scrap trade alignment and go for a Canada type deal.

You see oaks we really don't know for sure what Boris will do if he wins a handsome majority and there is a dominant leave Parliament. That he will win seems certain at this point.

Bet you the globalist loon Stav believed all the globalist economists that the USA would collapse econonmically with Trump's election !!!! Hahahahaahhahahahahaha how gullible can you get. Britain will thrive once it gets free on the failing EU

 Most of the politicians in their party wanted to remain in the EU, for economic reasons. They feel that Britain is too small to be on it own when compared to the likes of America, China etc.

Bwahahahahahahahhaha how stupid do you get. Britain is the 5th biggest economy in the world!!!!!!!!! How the hell does any country below 5th then survive outside the EU . Man has this loon any functioning brain cells!!!!! The EU is an economic mess.One great reason to get out before it collapses.

Next you must control your borders your fisheries, you laws and ability to strike trade deals. These are the t hings Boris talks about. The WA is however flawed as Farage pointed out. Nevertheless it got through the Remainer parliament AND OPENED THE WAY UP TO AN ELECTiON.

So now everything depends on what Bosis and the rest true intentions are

Hasn't globalist scumbag Sturgeon made as ass of herself. She talks about achieving Scottish independence. But as has been pointed out to her she has no regard for independence as she wants to hand over the Scots to Brussels rule . This is the same pervert who said by the time a child is 4 its old enough to choose its gender!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Taking back one's borders, one's laws, and one's money should be incentive enough to leave the EU.

I would have voted for that without a second thought.

Being dictated to by outside parties is absurd. Having open borders is complete madness.  

A perfect deal that appeases all parties is just not possible. You are always going to find fault with a deal. The most important thing is getting the best one on the table and working the rest out as an independent entity.

Those MP's that Johnson fired, rebelled in view of getting a no deal off the table. They should have trusted their PM. I bet they're regretting their stupidity now.

I like Johnson ... he has a lot of passion for his country ... for his people ... and will do his best for them.

Scotland is making a lot of noise. Perhaps it's best they separate themselves from the UK and go it alone. See how well they do. lol!!

I always thought that negotiating from a position of strength adds weight to one's argument. Do the Scots know this?  

@cleancut

As I've explained on this before when it comes to borders, the majority of immigration into the UK comes from outside the EU. The UK has full control over this. When it comes to EU immigrants, the UK is not in the Schengen area so all EU immigrants must show their passports on arrival into the UK. The EU citizens are allow to stay for 3 months after which time they must prove they have a job or have the means to support themselves, if they cannot they can be deported. The UK does not choose to implement this law for its own reasons, while countries like Belgium and Germany do and have deported thousands. EU citizens with criminal records can be refused entry on a case by case basis. Also remember if you remove EU citizens rights to move freely the UK you also remove the right of 1.24 million UK citizens living in the EU to move freely around the EU. 

But even ignoring all of the above. Boris Johnson's deal leavse no border between Ireland the Northern Ireland. So that's no border between the UK and an external country! Instead they are putting up a border inside their own territory. Is that taking back control of ones borders in your opinion?

Can you cite the laws the EU has enforced on the UK please?

Money....complete red herring. Its a fact that the money the UK makes trading tariff free with the EU far outweighs the membership fee they pay. Its the primary reason they joined in the first place. 

If you voted for that without a second thought and many did, then the best I could say is you voted from the heart and not from the head. You would like so many who did vote for it would have been manipulated and deceived.  But if not at worst your just siding with the side that coincides with your world views and repeating it without question because the evidence does not back up what your saying.

The EU does not dictate. Laws made by the EU must gain the consent of the EU parliament a parliament elected by the people of Europe. 

What you say about a perfect deal, well I actually agree with you on this point 100%.

The rebel MP's did the right thing taking a no deal off the table. They avoided an economic disaster for the UK. As for trusting Johnson's that's beyond laughable. He's been caught lying so many times its hard to fathom how he got elected. How many affairs as this man had? His promise to resign if the second runway at Heathrow was built, lying to the the Queen about the prorogation of parliament, the £350 a million a week for the NHS bus pledge, the now infamous Smoked Kipper and Prawn Cocktail Crisp lies, the lies about EU rules preventing road safety measure for cyclists, the no border down the Irish Sea pledge, what about the fact he was sacked from newspaper for making up quotes from his grandfather! 

Johnson would be great fun on a night out on the town but he's an absolute disaster as a leader of a country. Johnson is patriotic to one entity only and that is himself. He couldn't give two shits for the people.

Your points on Scottish independence just show you how biased and hypocritical you are. You go on about about the EU dictating to the UK yet the Scots have a far better argument for arguing that Brexiteers in England and Wales are dictating an absolutely momentous decision onto Scotland in forcing Scotland out of the EU against its will.

You are correct in saying that negotiating from a position of strength adds weight to ones argument. Now explain that to Brexiteers when the UK is negotiating trade deals when they are outside of the EU.  In this dispute between Ireland the UK over the creation of a border on the island of Ireland due to Brexit, Ireland would not have been able to stand up to the UK on its own, but as members of the EU we are stronger than the UK is now that its on its own. Ireland has met its objectives of avoiding a boarder on the island or Ireland. The UK capitulated.

In all honesty Northern Ireland is insignificant economically with a GDP of 33 billion sterling,  less than Kent! And the UK pours an estimated 8 billion into Northern Ireland in various forms of aid. It would be a big plus just to get rid of it.

The debate wasn't 'won' by Ireland....the UK just continues to meet it's moral obligations.

@mozart

Valiant attempt at turning a defeat into victory but it just ain't true.

It was won by Ireland/EU. Johnson's deal is a capitulation to the EU. He boxed himself in and was forced to take a deal worse (from a UK point of view) than the one already on offer.

Hardline Brexiteers don't give a hoot about moral obligations and Boris Johnson only obligation is to himself staying in Downing Street for as long as possible.  Had the UK reached an agreement with the EU that didn't include dealing with the border, the UK would string Ireland along with vague and unworkable promises and  would of just tried to wing the whole border issue as they went, if it worked out great and on the other hand if the peace process went to shit they would just shrug and say "C'est la vie" and "we don't care we got out magical Brexit Unicorn". 

@sharkbok

Its a factor because Brexit requires a border.

Brexit creates a land border between the UK and the EU on the island or Ireland. None of the parties involved may want a border but a border is required.

The EU has to have a border to preserve the integrity of the single market. Ireland a member of the EU must enforce this border. The UK likewise must have a border to preserve the integrity of its economic market.

This comes into conflict with the spirit of the GFA the peace deal that ended the troubles. 

I don't expect the entire world to know the history of every other country but to suggest the border issue is a red herring for Ireland is ignorance of history and relatively near history at that. Ireland fought a civil war over the border, it was the border that led to 30+ year long conflict that left thousands dead. For Ireland its an existential question. No Irish government could ever permit the return of a hard border on the island or Ireland even if it mean't economic oblivion.

Ireland has been under pressure for years about its corporate tax rate. France in particular have been an extremely vocal critic of it. We have for years told the French to mind their own business. There is nothing to suggest anything has changed. Tax rates remains the competence of member states not the EU. Illegal State aid on the other hand is something the EU has a say on.

If the UK leaves, their going to find many of the American Fortune 500 companies scaling back UK operations or moving most of them into the EU the far larger market that the UK won't be able to offer them access too. This has already begun on a large scale. Agreed corporate tax evasion is bad and Ireland have been getting away with murder in that regard for a long time, the EU have begun clamp down on it. But its got naught to do with Brexit.

Ireland would no doubt prefer the UK to remain a member for both political and economic reasons. Politically we were often closely aligned to the UK in the EU and were able to coat tail off the UK clout in the EU to get what we wanted, so we will lose a close political ally in the EU in that regard. A no deal Brexit would have killed us economically. Brexit that put up a border could have seen a return to the violence of the troubles. Now that there is a deal Ireland can manage the effects of Brexit. We do take a noticeable economic hit but it will be far from fatal. If the UK wants to leave on the terms on offer, best of luck to them If it doesn't work out for the UK and some time down the road want to come back Ireland would be extremely supportive of re-admittance.

@Stavenger, if France dropped their tax rate to corporates to be a lower % than Ireland, then suddenly Ireland was getting no corporate tax from US companies for business conducted with the Irish local market (along with everyone else tax) - my guess is the Irish would complain. 

It seems ludicrous to part of an economic union where one member drops their pants and is allowed to take the corporate tax from other member countries markets. It is the same as Switzerland who follow their own set of laws for personal tax, and in doing so tax money is lost to other countries. 

From reports, I read the UK has complained about this to deaf ears in the EU, and it is a factor for wanting to leave. 

There is no transparency how much the Irish are charging the global corporates for tax, or where these funds go to. 

I have heard that the UK government plans to start taxing these global corporates a % of sales revenue, instead of profit. This will help ensure that the right amount of tax is paid, and to disallow tax from the UK market being declared in Ireland. 

If the UK allow Northern Ireland to leave Britain or just turn their backs on Northern Ireland, then it has nothing to do with the UK. There will not need to be a hard border separating Northern Ireland and Southern Ireland- as they will be the same place.

There will be a border between the UK and United Ireland, and rightly so if England, Scotland and Wales are no longer part of the EU. 

If Ireland wants no border with the UK, the only option is for Ireland to become part of the UK, which of course will not happen.

The GFA is a big factor in Ireland, but most of the rest of the world do not know what this is. As soon as Northern Ireland merges with Southern Ireland, it will be an Irish problem. 

@sharkbok

France has the highest corporate tax rate in the EU, every member state has a lower rate. Ireland's just happens to be the second lowest after Hungary. The French would like to see a single rate across the EU to ensure a level playing. But the member states have showed no sign of agreeing to that. Are you suggesting the EU should have more power at the expense of the member states?

The provisions of the peace agreement allow for a referendum to unite the Irelands when it appears majority may support that position. So if that were the case, and Brexiteers don't give a damn about Ireland as you claim Stav.....why not  just call a referendum and unite the Irelands. 

Not because of any economic loss to Britain....hopefully you accept that. Maybe not even because of a moral obligation,  as you opine. Could it be that N Ireland would still prefer the lousy Brexiteers over  their oh so politicaly correct cousins over the border?

That would be a bit embarrassing. But whatever the reason the Brits have not thrown N Ireland under the bus, even though there is nothing in the long history of Nothern Ireland that has been anything but a misery and a cost.

Stavanger ... you seem to be getting a little hot under the collar.

One will always find issues in policies you don’t support. The Irish aren’t exactly in favour of leaving the EU and so resistance is an obvious reaction. Excuses will be brought to the table by the dozen as I’ve seen in your post ... and one can expect many of these issues to be exaggerated. In truth there are pros and cons on both sides of the table. You just aren’t prepared to look at it objectively.

It’s not all bad as you’re trying to make out.

Unfortunately for you and the rest of those wanting to remain, were out voted and as a democratic entity have no choice but to adhere to the voice of the majority. It looks as though Mr Johnson is set to come out the victor. I hope so. 

You don’t like him. That much is clear. There are many who feel the same way ... however ... there are also many like me who rate him highly.

Is it his hairdo or are you just simply anti English?

How does him having an affair hamper his ability to lead his people? Calling him a liar is just a desperate attempt to cast him in as bad a light as you can. In all honesty, do you know of any politician, that hasn’t lied at one time or another? Anyone at all?

Our government is riddled with corrupt liars.  

Leaving the EU is the right step to take. You get your country back which in my opinion is all good. I commend Johnson’s boldness in pursuing this. I would love to have him as my PM.

I will be holding thumbs for Mr Johnson’s victory next month.

Long live Mr Johnson.

CleanCutt, aka dirty Mutt/The Lost sheep,

You do realise that most of Ireland are an independent country from the UK? And that only Northern Ireland is still part of the UK.(a small fraction of Ireland)

Stav doesn't even like Ireland. It is the stated aim of the European globalists to destroy the sovereignty of the European nation states. Neither does it bother Stav whether Ireland has open borders or mass murder of irish children vIa abortIon. IrIsh chIldren can always be replaced by foreIgners after all, a great benefIt of open borders! The sooner the Irish disappear the better thinks this loon.

Stave places no value on Irish values, traditions culture at all. SharIa law would be great says ou Stav the hatter let them all in. My country is your country says the insane coot. Nationhood is bad he grunts.

Ireland should tell any muslIm In Europe who feels unhappy to come to Ireland, lets buIld those mosques, get Sharia going and get our woman In hijabs wIth the required clItoral mutIlatIon etc. Now that would be making progress and IncreasIng dIversIty monumentally thInks Stav! Oh It might take some bombings and jihad actIvIty to get the IrIsh to accept an IrIsh calIphate but that's a small prIce to play. Buildvngs where gays and lesbvans can be trown off would have to be identified but nothing can be allowed to stop progress. Christianity has been far to slack on this issue after all and now we have a big backlog to deal with!

Perhaps the natIves would accept beIng culled to make way for the invaders - it would be the decent thIng to do! We need to catch up and surpass Sweden to show how utterly progressive we are!

@sharkbok

Companies like Apple who have been paying bugger all corporate tax in Ireland and have been using Ireland to avoid paying tax in the rest of the EU are still of huge benefit to the Irish economy. They invest heavily in facilities in Ireland and provide thousands of jobs directly which leads to the indirect creation of thousands of more jobs who support the business. All of those jobs lead to more tax payers. You can imagine what is to political parties in Ireland when they are out on the campaign trail during an election and can say to voters we attracted these companies to Ireland and created thousands of jobs. Its a massive vote winner.

Ireland didn't have comparative local indigenous  business to shaft. Ireland and other countries are being done out of its fair due of taxes that's true but from Irelands point of view, its better they came up and set up shop over and created all these jobs than not coming here in the first place. 

I agree, US companies should have to pay tax on the country where they make the sales and not where they are headquartered.

Amazon is not an example you can blame on Ireland, their European headquarters is in Luxembourg (another Tax heaven) not Ireland. 

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Regarding Brexit. The reason Cameron resigning was losing the Brexit referendum pure and simple. No other reason. 

The Tax Justice Network published a study this year that labelled the UK "the world's greatest enabler" of corporate tax avoidance. The UK is far from clean in this regards.

https://news.sky.com/story/uk-is-worlds-greatest-enabler-of-corporate-tax-avoidance-11730368

Aside from which key Brexiteers are heavily pushing turning the UK into a tax heaven like Singapore where there is low or no corporate tax. Google the words Brexit and Singapore model. 

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The Border was Irelands key concern and that issue has now been addressed.

You have again got this the wrong away around. For years analysis of Brexit have said any form of Brexit would be bad for Ireland but the one silver lining that partly negates its downsides is that Ireland (and the EU in general) would gain investment from multinational's at the UK's expense. A scenario that's already started to play out. 

Brexit encourages American multinationals to set up in the rest of the EU over the UK. Why set up and invest as heavily in the UK a market of only 60 million (that may get smaller if the Union breaks up) when you can invest in an EU country that has access to market of over 400 million (that may expand if it takes in more countries)

@mozart

No point calling a referendum when we already know the outcome would be for remaining with the UK, the Unionists remain the majority in the north and there unionism is the be all and end all to them. Due to there upbringing, culture and history they would vote to remain part of the UK, regardless of whether the UK was in or out of the EU. They would vote to remain if the UK was entirely on fire and run by a Satanic Cult from Mars!

Nothing embarrassing about that. We know the majority of NI citizens favor remaining in the UK currently. We also know  the majority of NI citizens rejected Brexit at the referendum. We also know through polling the majority in the North would prefer if they have to leave the EU to leave with a deal (either May's or Johnson's) than leave with no deal to protect both the NI economy and peace process.

The Brits haven't thrown NI under the bus. But they have shanked the hardline Unionists in the north. 

@Ceradyne

What....seriously?. NI rejected Brexit and polling has consistently showed the majority of NI supports staying in the customs union and would be willing to leave under the terms of either May or Johnson's deal. Many predict the deal could given NI a significant economic advantage as it effectively gets access to both the UK and EU markets. I've no idea how you can say Ireland and the EU don't care about NI's opinion.

I actually don't support the Lib Dems position. It should not be just cancelled. But I do believe a 2nd vote should be held.

If remain won, I don't think Brexit would have been completely killed but it would be left to simmer in the background potentially popping up many years later. Remain might be willing to STFU if the leave campaign didn't break election spending rules or if evidence started to stack up that Brexit would be a good idea. 

@Cleancut

You know what makes me hot the collar. Posting all of the above last night only for this website not to upload it 

Bit condescending to dismiss the other side of the argument as excuses or an exaggeration of issues.

I can find almost no pro's in the whole process. When people talk about the Pro's of Brexit they normally cite three things. Taking control of their borders, control of their laws and saving the membership free money. There is other issues but those are the big three.

When I point out how UK immigration laws currently work and that evidence shows EU immigrants are net financial contributors to the UK, people here and other Brexiteer supporters never say "ahah your wrong, here is the EU legislation that prevents the UK from kicking out EU immigrants that have over stayed, here is the EU legislation that prevents the UK from stopping EU citizens with criminal records from coming into the EU and here are studies or government reports indicating that EU citizens are an economic drain on the UK" They don't this because they don't have any evidence to support there. They just repeat the line "we are taking back control of our borders"

Likewise with laws. Brexiteer say the EU dictates too many laws onto the UK. Yet when you ask them what laws, they can never cite any, never mind tell if you British MEP's voted for or against those laws. Most of them have no clue how EU laws are made. Yet the EU is this undemocratic monster constantly oppressing the UK.

As for saving money. When Brexiteers can provide facts and figures that the membership fee is costing more than money than's gained via tariff free trade with the EU I'll happily stand corrected.

Once Brexiteers can provide objective evidence of the problems Brexit is suppose to fix I would be willing to change my position.

I'm not in the UK so couldn't vote (therefore not out voted). I agree that once leave won the vote the UK government was right to start the process to leave. But as I said Brexit was left undefined. Now that we know what Brexit will look like I don't think it morally wrong to bring it back to the UK public and say are you sure this is what you want? 

Your right that Johnson is currently the favorite to win the election.  I'm no fan of Mr Johnson for reasons I've already said.

I think we can both agree is hairdo is ridiculous right?  

My dislike of him is nothing to do with him being English. 

Having an affair doesn't make you unfit to be PM. Why I brought it up was a poster saying the rebel MP's who took no deal off the table should have trusted Johnson, I'm making the point that Boris Johnson has proven to be a serial liar and inherently untrustworthy. The multiple affairs are just more proof of this.

Everyone has lied at some point in there life not just politicians. But that doesn't make it right. Boris at this point has proven to be a liar way beyond the norms of an average person or politician and as PM of the UK the holder of the highest office in the land that's not really a good thing is it. Effectively your making excuses for him,  "you know what its absolutely alright to lie, as long as your on my side of the argument".

If you want to believe the UK is best leaving the EU, fair enough your entitled to do so. I don't think the UK will be getting its country back because it never lost it in the first place, though the UK may now inadvertently become the thing it feared it was.

I am very happy about Brexit - in the case of the rugby and cricket players from SA  the crcket teams in England has used a EU Court decision to block SA to call players playing in especially England to play for  SA  in test,   The moment the UK leave the EU - the court decision doies not affect the SA crocket players anymore. 

Enough reason to accept that EU membership has consequences in all member countries and especially also in non-member countries,    

@clevermike

You got a link to information on the EU court ruling that blocks SA players based in England from playing for South Africa?

Whats it got to do with rugby, wasn't Faf de Klerk playing for SA throughout the world cup and he plays for Sale Sharks?