Borvs vs expected to win the nomination to become PM by a large margin. The results will be out very shortly. - they said by 11.30. GMT.
Britain leaving the EU will be a devastating blow to the elite Globalists in Europe. Australia too will benefit.
After a few disruptions initially there can be no doubt Britain will thrive. Then just watch what happens.
Sky News Australia reports.
Boris Johnson wins premiership with 66.4% of the votes cast. He must deliver!
66.4% of Conservative party members who voted in the leadership contest. Less than 100,000 people. He does not represent the will of the majority of parliament (the sovereign power of the UK) or the will of the majority of the people of the UK. He can try to deliver what he promised but as I said reality makes that virtually impossible.
Slav
Johnson will have the backing of the USA and that would be a great help to the UK,
Be it as it may - the EU cannot afford to deal with the UK departure on a more favourable basis since it may open the gate for other countries to go as well. I think in the end the departure will be a NO DEAL one with Trump assistance.
The fact is that nobody bar perhaps the Lib-Dems wants an election in the UK at present - neither the Conservative Party - nor the Labour Party. They are bound to do badly in any election based on what happened in the recent EU election.
Clever
Do you think the British will get a good trade deal with Trump. Remember its America first with him. In the event of the UK leaving with no deal it would be under significant time pressure to conclude a trade deal and America will use that as leverage to extract better terms.
As it stands US food safety standards are far lower than the EU. To conclude a trade deal Britain would have to lower its food safety standards to do so, you would hardly expect America to raise their standards to meet the UK's current standards (its one of the reasons the EU does not have a trade deal with the US). The event of the UK lowering their food standards would require a hard border in Northern Ireland to ensure this lower quality food does not enter the EU and no technical solution could ever fix that. In addition if the UK lowers its food standards it would make its food harder to sell into the EU. Also the little matter of lowering food standards in the UK to match America's will result in deaths in the UK.
Trump has said he would only sign a trade deal with the UK is if the leave the EU with no deal and if the NHS is put on the table (i.e fully privatized). 70% of the UK public is against privatization of the NHS.
But lets say the UK goes for no deal, that would be seen as breach of the Good Friday Agreement. The US House of Representatives have made it clear that if the Good Friday Agreement is weakened in any way there will be no trade agreement between the UK and the US and that congress would easily be able to block trade negotiations from even taking place.
Even if the UK did get a trade deal that was equally as beneficial to itself as the US, it would still not offset the economic damage done by having no trade deal with the EU.
I would wager the Labour Party, Brexit Party and Lib Dems would all fancy having a general election sooner rather than later.
Polls have shown a slight increase for both the Conservatives and Labour since the EU elections, largely because they have both clarified their positions, Conservatives are leaning more towards a hard Brexit taking votes back off the Brexit Party and Labour have moved more towards a second referendum taking votes back off the Lib Dems. But they are all very close together.
While the conservatives don't want an election, you have to see it from the rebel tory MP's point of view. If they believe a no deal Brexit will be an economic disaster, it could literally spell the end of the Tory party. They would rather lose power in a general election that see the party be held responsible for the disaster and be potentially wiped out as a political entity for decades to come.
Stavanger, I find your presence on this site quite puzzling...and your Norse handle even more so. You seem to be quite intelligent, yet you seem to parrot the mainstream "globalists" agenda...weird, if this site wasn't so insignificant, I would have been highly suspicious ....anyway, nice to get the opposing perspective without the insults...refreshing approach, thanks Paddy.
.
Beenz, is your real name Trevor?
Sheep no more!
Hi DbDraad
I do get asked are you Norwegian a lot when people see my online handle. It actually comes from the video game Commandos. One of the first missions is set around an airfield at Stavanger. I just always thought the name sounded cool when I was young and used it as an alternate online gaming handle as my first choice of Azza (Star Wars X-Wing reference) was usually taken.
I was also mispronouncing it for years without knowing about it. Calling it stavan-ger instead of stav-anger . The Norwegians set me straight on that.
I stumbled across this site when I was looking up what the perception of the Pro 14 was in South Africa and then stumbled into this part of the forum afterwards when I saw Brexit related threads. From what I've read on this forum, posters here don't really share my world outlook and are much more right wing than most people I know. I would consider myself center to center left on most political issues.
I know people can be passionate about politics and religion, but I don't believe there is the need to insult people of different views. If you have to resort to insults then your conceding the argument in my opinion.
@Stavanger,
The religious sometimes that are also far-right (like Draad and Beeno) will often see the world as 2 perspectives, and not a spectrum of viewpoints.
If you do not support the religious conspiracy stuff, then you are part of the other group. (which is globalism conspiracy).
The whole Brexit thing shows there are more than 2 viewpoints. There are lots of viewpoints, but no one can offer a solution. The last prime minister was blamed for everything, but she opened the floor- and no one could offer a viable solution than a majority would accept.
If we talk about brainwashing, I would argue it is the religious right that are brainwashed- because their perspectives are so similar.
You and I have different perspectives, but for the far-right conspiracy crew - we actually agree with everything.
So ignore the BS. Your take on the EU situation is far more insightful - even if I do not agree, or am aware of everything/context .
I am not a far right person at all - mostly moderate. I do not trust the leftists at all. The way things are happening they are using Goebbels methods to seize and remain n control.
Take for instance the alleged Russian involvement in the 2016 US elections. Sure the Russians use hacking to interfere in correspondence and reports - but did they favour Trump as the media and the DP alleges. I doubt it very much.
Clinton with Obama's blessing got an English agent and paid him to do the Steele Dossier connecting Trump with the Russians - which was a fake report used to spy on people from the Trump election campaign. It led to 4 investigations which produced no proof of any linkage - but a large percentage of the US residents has been so brainwashed that they still believe the Russian \ Trump linkage.
We know what dictatorships use to brainwash people and get their support - thus destroying democratic principles. With the present media systems are we being led into an era of pseudo democracy? It worries me that the world is going into a new era of undemocratic governance and the UN and the EU are two vehicles used for the purpose.
The default position right now is no deal. So if Boris doesn't ask for an extension then Article 5o kicks in and the UK leaves on WTO terms.
Further what this curious oak Stav is not telling you there are some 30 Labour Party MPs who will support a no deal.
Kenneth Clarke the Remainer Tory stalwart told Merkel a No Deal is now likely.
Britain needs to get out of the EU if it wants to be a Sovereign Nation State.
Otherwise be ruled from those inefficient open borders nation destroying scumbags in Brussels.
Looking forward to the British leaving the EU and thereafter the unraveling of the Globalists.
Also looking forward to Canada's globalist PM Trudeau getting the boot later this year.
The fightback is gathering steam.
Just to remind this hatter Stav some 80% candidates in the last election ran on a leave ticket.
Leave is now more popular than ever. The Tory and Brexit Parties would win a substantial majority if the form an alliance which they would have to do to keep Corbyn and Remainer Lub Dems o ut.
As it happens the Labour Party is sinking like a stone and attempts are being made to get this disgusting marxist anti semite out as he is destroying the party.
Stav is a mole.
Ou sharktwit is so profoundly ignorant that when I first mentioned globalist he had no idea what the term meant etc. He thought it was some sort of conspiracy theory.
Of course it's a term used everyday all over the place by all sorts including MSM, politicians etc etc.
Poor sharktwit has no clue whatsoever. Will the dunce ever get up to speed!
Hi Ceradyne
Yes that's always the way party leaders are elected. But the high margin of his victory doesn't reflect the majority will of the UK public. I was just pointing that out when Beeno said he must deliver. He can try to deliver what he said, 1. Renegotiate the withdrawal agreement, which is extremely unlikely as the EU said it won't re-open it or 2. Go out with no deal which there is no majority for in parliament. Can't see either option happening currently.
Its funny Labour are currently criticizing the manner in which the Conservatives elected Boris Johnson, saying the public didn't chose him. The Conservatives criticized Labour when Gordon Brown took over from Tony Blair saying the exact same thing. Its just politics to do so, its hypocritical but that's the nature of politics.
The EU get criticized for the same, the heads of member states nominate candidates for the President of the European Commission which in then in turn is voted on by MEP's elected by the people. In that regard the EU works very similarly but is often criticized as undemocratic by Euro skeptics which again I find hypocritical.
I'd advise you to look more into his mayoral period of London. It wasn't crime that he reduced by 50% but the homicide rate. Johnson himself he reduced the overall crime rate by about 20%. He had some success, but he was a rather mixed bag. To be honest going by just track record of mayor I wouldn't be concerned by him becoming PM. Its his words and actions after his period of mayor that show he's holy unsuitable for the office of PM. Did anyone hear the lastest crap he went on about....the dastardly EU bann ing smoked kippers
"Yes that's always the way party leaders are elected. But the high margin of his victory doesn't reflect the majority will of the UK public."
So, that, as well as the number of members who voted him in is a moot point. Do you agree?
"But the high margin of his victory doesn't reflect the majority will of the UK public. "
The majority will of the UK public is irrelevant in this argument. The majority of the UK voters voted for the Tories and the DUP, who subsequently formed a coalition and together, they represent the all of the UK public. The leading party are free to elect their won leader in any way according to their own rules and their leader gets to be the PM.
"Its funny Labour are currently criticizing the manner in which the Conservatives elected Boris Johnson, saying the public didn't chose him. The Conservatives criticized Labour when Gordon Brown took over from Tony Blair saying the exact same thing. Its just politics to do so, its hypocritical but that's the nature of politics. "
True. They do accuse each other of the same "sin" but that is politics, as you said. Having said that, it was actually mainly David Cameron who was always nailing Gordon Brown on that point. I used to watch PMQs and used to enjoy watching Cameron at the Despatch Box. That was one aspect where he was brilliant. I can remember one episode where he actually directly challenged Brown by saying, "If you had any guts (or backbone, or something to that effect) you would get in your car right now and drive down to Buckingham Palace and tell Her Majesty that you are calling out an election".
He did almost the same to Jeremy Corbyn when Labour wanted to throw him out the first time. In Cameron's defence, he has at that stage already announced his resignation because he knew that, being a Remainer, he would not be able to deliver Brexit. Theresa May was just to thick to acknowledge the same/ I cannot believe that I initially believed in her.
"So, that, as well as the number of members who voted him in is a moot point. Do you agree?"
I haven't an issue with the method used to choose the prime minister, or the fact that the public don't have a say in the matter. Just wanted to note that being the clear winner in a vote among the 137,000 Tory members who decided the matter does not give Johnson the mandate to leave the EU with no deal. Both the majority of the UK public and parliament are against that.
Stavanger: " I would consider myself center to center left on most political issues.
I know people can be passionate about politics and religion, but I don't believe there is the need to insult people of different views. If you have to resort to insults then your conceding the argument in my opinion. "
I always considered myself a moderate, libertarian, but one day I woke up to a world where being a slightly conservative Christian gets you labeled as a racist right-wing nutter. Bizarre.!!!
Hi Ceradyne
I'm not disputing that he is the legitimate leader of the conservatives or PM. I'm saying he doesn't have a mandate from parliament or the people to go for no deal. The role of PM is not one of dictator, he doesn't have absolute power, he needs the support of the majority of parliament to leave with no deal which he doesn't have. Its complete hogwash to say a deal was never part of the equation, that's just a revision of history that's barely 3 years old. The people said they wanted to leave the EU, but where told a whole host of different things by the leave campaign as to what that mean't. Some suggested staying in the single market like Norway or Switzerland, almost none of them mentioned the custom union at all. But to imply that the leave vote was a vote for with no deal is totally false. Go look up what Reese Mogg, Farage, Digby Jones etc said in the run up to the referendum
The referendum was an advisory referendum and not legally binding, this is because parliament is the sovereign power of the UK and referendums can't overrule parliament. The PM/Parliament could have ignored it completely and would of legally entitled to do so. Note I'm not saying I would of supported such a stance, I think it was right that they tried to find a way to leave but the mounting evidence that no deal Brexit will be a economic disaster means they really should go back to the people and ask them are they sure if they want to go through with it.
Both of the main leave campaigns in the referendum broke financial rules as ruled by UK courts. If the referendum was legally binding the courts would of declared it illegal and void, but because it was only advisory the courts only power was to fine the campaigns guilty of breaching the rules.
Johnson can threaten a no deal to the EU all he wants, but the cards in the UK's hand have not changed. The EU will call that bluff.
The whole "Deal" thing is BS thought up by politicians...the tribe has spoken...this "Deal" thing is just an excuse to ignore the vote and trying to find space to maneuver until they can somehow reverse the decision...stalling because they didn't like the outcome.
Maybe Johnson should call the EU's bluff...lots of fanfare and no action....it seems the wrong people's heads got chopped off in the French Revolution...nothing changed....21st Century democracy is still slavery and serfdom, just in new clothes.
This "whole deal thing id made up BS" is a defensive attitude developed by Brexiteers when they realize they have no argument to the overwhelming evidence stacking up that a no deal Brexit will be extremely bad for the UK economy. Human nature I suppose, most people can't admit their wrong and would rather go down with the ship. The thought of losing face is worse than dying to some.
Look Strav, I don't really have a horse in this race, I'm far away in Africa. It does not really affect me, but it looks to me like politicians are looking for a way not to Brexit. The referendum wasn't about any exit deal, it was about leaving the EU or not. The result was leave. They should have left already if this issue was about the will of the people. Good or bad for the UK has nothing to do with it. It's done and dusted.Not leaving is undermining the democracy.
The following Ode applies to the EU
A letter to Father Stalin/ Where are you on our hour of need? Come back - all is forgiven,
There are a new set of capitalist pigs who wants to emulate your efforts to conquer and govern the world. We need you urgently to fight the bastards. So ask your dear friend the Devil for permission to come back and save the world.
LMAO
The following Ode applies to the EU
A letter to Father Stalin/ Where are you on our hour of need? Come back - all is forgiven,
There are a new set of capitalist pigs who wants to emulate your efforts to conquer and govern the world. We need you urgently to fight the bastards. So ask your dear friend the Devil for permission to come back and save the world.
LMAO