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FORUM / RUGBY /  Paris Burning

Paris Burning

Started by Wardad167 REPLIES2,602 VIEWS· 14 Nov 2015, 01:27
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PE
poi-ePro1,044 posts
14 Nov 2015, 21:35
#41
14 Nov 2015, 21:35#41
"Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke [reason with] thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord." (Leviticus 19: 17-18)
AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
14 Nov 2015, 22:01
#42
14 Nov 2015, 22:01#42
Well lets see now.
1.7 Billion Muslims with 99% (being generous)being good Muslims.Then that leaves 1% that are not good Muslims or 170 Million Muslim fanatics. 
You are welcome.
Just remember while u are reading this the number of Muslims has grown to 1.85 Billion.
Have a great day.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
14 Nov 2015, 22:31
#43
14 Nov 2015, 22:31#43
Love means protecting your loved ones from those who wish to harm them. Islam seeks to enslave and murder those who do not accept their moon god allah. Send all the muslims back to muslim lands NOW or perish. Their violence is based on clear teaching of the koran. Anyone who is not a muslum beware. Good post AJ
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
14 Nov 2015, 22:36
#44
14 Nov 2015, 22:36#44
What is sick is the incredible goings on carried out by islamists. The Japs dont like them neither do the Chinese, Russians, IndiansAmericans Eurooeans etc etc. The world will not tolerate this for much longer.
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
14 Nov 2015, 23:16
#45
14 Nov 2015, 23:16#45
 What are you talking about ? 
You have no idea what is going on over here or why countries are closing their borders by building miles of razor wire/impenetrable fences. Are they racist bigots, poi-e ? If so, I suggest you talk to them about it. And speak to the haulage contractors being attacked every night trying to work, someone will be killed soon because of the actions of the migrants. Why should they be subjected to this ? Why should towns have hundreds of migrants thrust upon them, given free bed/board/spending money, who then complain about their housing etc, when there is little or no social care for the elderly ? When people are losing their homes and migrants are being given housing instead ? When they are driving wages so low that living standards are plummeting ? Crime rates are going through the roof in certain areas. These are all facts whether you like it or not and they need discussing. And this island cannot cope with an unending supply of people. It is a fact. Any people. Of any creed/colour/religion etc etc. 

Look at what is happening in Sweden, Finland, Germany etc etc. The whole of Europe is in disarray. And, unless you know anything about the EU, the plans for Federalim etc, I suggest you shut up. 
I also think that Wahhabism is the issue here and Saudi Arabia need to start to do something about it, because they are part of the cause. We are all in danger and yes, unchecked immigration means we have no idea who is entering a country or their agenda....that is dangerous in a time of serious security worries. It also creates discord which is a double edged sword; total innocents bear the brunt of people's anger and others can become so disillusioned they are ripe for radicalisation. 

You see, poi-e, people like you, who scream racism at every turn, are part of the problem. No-one ever has chance for sensible and serious discourse about a dreadful problem that affects us all and is the biggest danger we have faced since the Second World War. Shame on you. 
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
14 Nov 2015, 23:41
#46
14 Nov 2015, 23:41#46
I'll say again... 400 000 dead civilian(woman, CHILDREN, elderly) Iraqis. Do we remember what that war was for? Did they ever find those nukes? Nope...but they did find some oil. All killed by Christians, in the name of democracy. Thousands of dead western soldiers...all sacrificed for a cause which they never really understood. Brainwashed into the grave. Does.anyone wanna discuss Syria, Palestine, Lebanon or Afghanistan? Nah, let's not. Shall we ask how many westerners have been killed by Muslims and vice versa. You'll find for every 1 western life, there are thousands upon thousands of Muslim lives lost. Idiots on here talking about how Islam is evil and how Muslims are evil. Looked at how ticked off you all are over 150 French peoppe you never met. What if your country was invaded for no good reason. Your family murdered, your resources pilfered and you thr culprits leave your country in rubble when they are done with you. Islam has nothing to do with it. Anybody, including myself, would be pi55ed off and out for revenge. Far as I can tell, team Jesus has a lot more to answer for. Not only that but team Jesus has been hijacked and so manipulated that they HAVE FORGOTTEN THAT ALL HUMAN LIFE IS SACRED. Beeno, you are a fking moron. And it's idiots like you and your bible bashing freaks who believe the world is 6000 years old that make it possible for this stuff to happen. Wanna blame someone? Look in the mirror idiot. And even after this, you'll still say things like..."Believe in God, what have you got to lose, even if he doesn't exist." Personally I blame both sides for this. To me, Beeno and his kind and just as, and if not, then more responsible for this than the terrorists.
PE
poi-ePro1,044 posts
15 Nov 2015, 00:18
#47
15 Nov 2015, 00:18#47
 Oh I think I know a thing or two having lived in the UK for seven years Becs, and frankly your attitude is what's wrong with humanity, what the Paris incident has to do with unchecked immigration is beyond me, do you know it was immigrants responsible?  You don't do you but because it fits your racist agenda, I.e all Syrian immigrants are terrorists, you use this tragedy to peddle it.
Some people see a humanitarian crisis, sh!tty people like you and Beeno want to spread hate.  Enjoy your next English Defence League meeting.
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
15 Nov 2015, 00:24
#48
15 Nov 2015, 00:24#48
Oh Beeno, and since you enjoy quoting. Here is a nice one from Deuteronomy for ya When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall offer it terms of peace. If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you. However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. When the LORD your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword. Only the women and the children and the animals and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourself; and you shall use the spoil of your enemies which the LORD your God has given you. Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes” And since you seem to like using words like "extremist" and "fanatasist" I'd like to say that you are exactly the thing that you accuse others off. Why? Well, because I bet you would never consider ever in a million years look through your bible and then be honest about what you find you in there. You would rather omit the truth, which really is no different to lying. All to push your own agenda. Pretty fanatical and rather extreme, with a good dose of dishonesty and hypocrisy to taste. Beeno was obviously raised in a nicely racist household, always taught that any other color is inferior and that any other religion should be pitied. And every lesbian girl he ever meets is just confused. As for you Becs, i think all those nights on the sofa watching the news have made you really afraid. One can only hear the words Muslim, refugee, terrorist, bombing, sharia law and ISIS so many times before you start to feel as though your way of life is under threat. I feel sorry for you. Your consent has been fully manufactured and many more innocent young men on both sides will die on the front lines because of what you tacitly allow.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Nov 2015, 01:06
#49
15 Nov 2015, 01:06#49
What utter balls. No Country is compelled to accept immigrants who don't want to assimilate. And no other religion is used as the basis for systematic violence. You can quote till you are blue in the face from the Bible....its not being acted upon. What's in the Koran is.....right through to the shooting of that brave young Pakistani girl who didnt toe the line.

We are dealing with an aberrant situation. There were 8 terrorists you say....but how many supported them, and how many knew about the attack ahead of time. And how many thousands in France thought the attack was justified.

When the Twin Towers came down mobs were dancing in the streets throughout the Moslem world. Every one of our major cities are at risk and the world needs to label this thing properly. It's no less evil than the Nazi movement, just less potent.

Whether the Koran is more infused with violence is not relevant, it's acted upon. 
AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
15 Nov 2015, 01:06
#50
15 Nov 2015, 01:06#50
 Plum,         More Muslims have been killed by other Muslims than by what u term Christians in the Middle East.         Every day more Muslims are killed and families separated than ever before in the name of u know who.                  Stop laying the blame on all in sundry but the guys who are responsible.                  I am tired of having to apologize and bend for being a white christian male to all u bleeding heart folk who do not and will not admit to the real issues.
         Stand up for what is right and be counted like a man.
                  
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
15 Nov 2015, 01:46
#51
15 Nov 2015, 01:46#51
 Are you stupid, Plum ? Read my words and see that I have pointed out that innocent people of faith will be attacked because of the actions of the few and because of the actions of our idiot Govts. 
I have no Religion but I have qualifications in Religious History and have studied it at length. I also have friends of all Religions and creeds and spent a great deal of time with those who had fled Iraq and Iran, whilst I was at University. True refugees who one learned a great deal from, as I did a friend who fled Uganda and a family who fled the Mau Mau uprising. I also know quite a bit about modern Malaysia functions, given the Christian/Muslim split as my brothers girlfriend is half Malaysian. 
I think you will find that the French believe the terrorists largely entered through Belgium, yet again, and one was from Syria, having travelled to France in October via Greece. Another is believed to be Egyptian. These were two of the suicide bombers. 
What happened in Iraq was a disgrace and Bush and Blair deserve to hang for it. Simple as that. You have no idea of my opinions about any invasion or abuses inflicted on those poor people. 
And you have no damned clue what you are talking about half the time, by the sounds of it. It's people like you that are the reason why this world is in the turmoil it is in. Stop crying racist ( since when was a religion a race, by the way ? ) and sit down and discuss a solution before more innocent lives on all sides of this abomination are lost. You're pathetic. 
PE
poi-ePro1,044 posts
15 Nov 2015, 01:56
#52
15 Nov 2015, 01:56#52
 The old, I'm not racist!  I have friends that are (insert race of that would be offended here) excuse.
I don't believe you, you're a frightened little girl
PE
poi-ePro1,044 posts
15 Nov 2015, 02:00
#53
15 Nov 2015, 02:00#53
What's the solution then Moz, close borders to all refugees?  You can't tar them all with the same brush because of the actions of the the minority like Becs wants to, should all Christians be judged because of the actions of the Westboro Baptist Church?
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
15 Nov 2015, 02:10
#54
15 Nov 2015, 02:10#54
 Spot-on poi-e, one cannot tar all with the same brush, there has to be a better solution other than forcing the refugees to U Turn. The refugees are asking for help, goodness me there are women and children desperately crying out for it.
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
15 Nov 2015, 03:32
#55
15 Nov 2015, 03:32#55
Moz, i quoted Deuteronomy because Beeno seemed to think quoting from scripture was some sort of proof that one side is evil. The point was to show that as far as books go, both sides are just as bad. They act on it, but we invade their countries. Who holds the moral high ground? Oh yeah, since Muslims kill other Muslims, it's fine for us to kill a few too. Since most murder in SA is black on black I might just go clip me a few negros tomorrow. No country should be compelled to accept refugees. Third world immigrants, whether refugees or not, always take numerous generations to ascimilate into their adopted nations culture. The reasons for this are pretty obvious...poor education, stricter religious practices etc etc. All of this is well known and nothing new. Comes with the turf. You either do or don't want to accept the burden of helping these people. Muslims do push their religion onto others as much as possible. Socially where violence and intimidation is not an option and yes, if they can't compell you then they will appeal to your morality to hear them out. There are one hundred and one reasons why Islam, religion in general is a blight on this world. BUT, we cannot claim to be morally superior to the Arab world when we are guilty of stealing from and killing them. Islam is divided, as it always has been, between its two major sects. But, guess who is FKING DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CREATION ISIL/ISIS/IS??????? We are! We invaded Iraq, put the minority in charge, and then, since we got what we went there for, left them to their own devices. They, the Sunnis, then formed IS. IS who we fight in Iraq yet supply weapons to in Syria as we deem them better than Asad. So, the West are directly responsible for the creation of this group. Then we give them weapons and assist them in destabilising Syria and now we wanna cry about refugees which are a DIRECT result of the our actions. Fact is, we all want cheap oil. We'll turn a blind eye, and then when our victim bites back the only option we have is to call them evil and bloodthirsty terrorists. Heaven forbid, we ever hold our politicians accountable. We'll impeach them for having their d1ckface sacked by their secretaries, but we'll never so much as write an angrycletter to them when their decisions lead directly to the death of innocent families. It's a sick joke really.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Nov 2015, 03:37
#56
15 Nov 2015, 03:37#56
There is only downside for the European countries accepting the refugees. Most countries already have high unemployment rates and refugees will displace more workers. So it's an act of pure charity. But I doubt it will work for the refugees either. They want their own culture, to be Syrians not Frenchmen.
The mistake the world has made is the same mistake Neville Chamberlain made. When these barbarians started ritually cutting off heads...the world needed to act. But the world convinced itself all that was that was wrong with life  was so called American aggression.

We need to make these refugees' home countries safe for them to live their lives. In the long run this will be by far the least expensive solution. And if there is a temporary crisis where refugees have to be given protection....it needs to be treated as a temporary solution. If Syrians really want to be Frenchmen, and there are damn few I'd guess, then they can emigrate through the normal process.
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
15 Nov 2015, 03:40
#57
15 Nov 2015, 03:40#57
Arthur, it takes a man to follow. But it takes a bigger man to refuse to being intimidated into following on the basis of fear.
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
15 Nov 2015, 03:46
#58
15 Nov 2015, 03:46#58
Haha yeah Becs. I'm not homophobic either...i have a t-shirt with a rainbow on it. Are you for real!!!???
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
15 Nov 2015, 04:15
#59
15 Nov 2015, 04:15#59
 That fukcwit Bush and his dim-witted boy certainly created a massive clusterfukc in the Middle east with their naive and simple minded dabbling in foreign affairs .Horrible as it may seem the world would be a better place with the vile dictators like Saddam in place ,they seem to be the only creatures that can keep their people in line ,Iraqis especially women are far worse off now .And its all about oil ,why else would western nations studiously ignore the slimy saudis hand in creating isis ? why else would you send your peiple to die protecting one of the most vile families to have been ever been shat upon the earth ? Bush went to huge lengths to create a causus belli with his WMDs nonsense so as to invade Iraq ,as someone pointed out how much oil is now owned by Iraq ? But now thanks to these cretins the western nations are now gunshy after the US let planeloads of Binladens people and bin laden himself slip through their fingers all to protect Bushes mates the saudis Bin Ladens .To compound this nonsense having defeated the Taliban at minimal cost he decides to indulge in some 'nation building ' and 15 years later where are we ?So now when the West has a justifiable reason to put men on the ground and wipe these jizz-rags off the face of the planet they are too scared to .Sometimes to cure a cancer wee doses of medication arent enough and you have to operate and cut it out .I dont particularly care if they are muslim or not an ars.ehole is an ars.ehole no matter what direction he prays in and whatever deity he worships.
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
15 Nov 2015, 04:16
#60
15 Nov 2015, 04:16#60
Sadly the French tolerance towards black people and other ethnicities is all but gone thanks to mongrels like isis .People like the entertainer Josephine Baker and many other black Americans found homes in France where they were not treated like 2nd class humans especially after WW1 .And France has a long history of incorporating people from their former colonies into their society and especially their armed forces ,EG: the "Goums " or Morrocan mountain troops who fought with distinction in WW2 .Even Syria used to be a French mandate .
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
15 Nov 2015, 08:42
#61
15 Nov 2015, 08:42#61
 Why does Europe have to take care of the refugees instead of filthy rich Arab countries like Saudi Arabia, Dubai, Abu Dhabi etc.....would have thought it's the most logical way t o go re religion, culture, weather etc
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Nov 2015, 09:07
#62
15 Nov 2015, 09:07#62
Denny
I think there is a constant ware between the various branches of the Islamic religion - namely the Sunni's and the Shi'ites - with some further downstrems also in evidence, like for instance the Alawites.
The Arab countries are fearful that an influx of refugees will affect them and draw them even deeper into a conflict situation like they are already in - like for instance the Houthi Shi'ites in Jemen.   They know that a flood of refugees will inevitably allows for infiltration by the extremists and they are vary o allowing them into their countries.
I think that ISIS and Al Queda represents two extremist organisations from the Sunni branch of Islam - while Hezbollah, Hamas and Hezbollah are f\aligned to the Shi'ite branch.   
As long as that situation prevails inside the Islamic religion - the war situation will spill over into all countries taking sides against the extremists.          
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
15 Nov 2015, 09:14
#63
15 Nov 2015, 09:14#63
 Dont forget the farking wahhabbi eejits .The saudis trained and pay for isis ,should have let the Iraqis flatten them in 1990.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
15 Nov 2015, 09:55
#64
15 Nov 2015, 09:55#64
 Read the New testament there is nothing it requiring people to harm others. However in the koran there are injunctions to do so. Huge difference.It matters not what hatters like Plum or pooie think. The behaviour of these ISLAMIC Jihardists (Based on teachings in the koran) are enraging peoples accross the globe.A day of reckoning will come. In the meanwhile countores are realsing the horrow of what they have allowed in. As these attrocities continue there will be steps to get rid of the muslims. Send them back to their own muslim lands - where incidently they were offeredno help or shelter.Why well becuase this is an invasion and at last it is being called that.The choice is simple, take action or perish.





BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
15 Nov 2015, 10:01
#65
15 Nov 2015, 10:01#65
 Obama coming under stick:

In any time and place, war is fiendishly simple. It is the ultimate zero-sum contest — you win or you lose.

That eternal truth is so obvious that it should not need to be said. Yet even after the horrific slaughter in Paris, there remains a distressing doubt about whether America’s commander in chief gets it.

President Obama has spent the last seven years trying to avoid the world as it is. He has put his intellect and rhetorical skills into the dishonorable service of assigning blame and fudging failure. If nuances were bombs, Islamic State would have been destroyed years ago.

He refuses to say “Islamic terrorism,” as if that would offend the peaceful Muslims who make up the vast bulk of victims. He rejects the word “war,” even as jihadists carry out bloodthirsty attacks against Americans and innocent peoples around the world.

He shuns the mantle of global leadership that comes with the Oval Office, with an aide advancing the preposterous concept that Obama is “leading from behind.” He snubs important partners like Egypt, showers concessions on the apocalyptic mullahs of Iran, and called the Islamic State the “jayvee team” even as it was beginning to create a caliphate.

Having long ago identified American power as a problem, he continues to slash the military as the enemy expands its reach. In a globalized era, the Obama doctrine smacks of cowardly retreat and fanciful isolation.

In an accident of timing that captures his cluelessness, the president actually declared on Friday morning that Islamic State had been “contained,” practically boasting in a TV interview that, “They have not gained ground in Iraq and in Syria.”

What gall. What folly.

Paris is the final straw. Obama’s exemption from reality has expired. He must either commit to leading the free world to victory, or step aside so someone else can.

There is no more time to avoid the truth of war. America must organize the combined forces of the civilized world before Islamic State makes good on its vow to “taste” more American blood.

If Obama cannot rise to the challenge of leadership in this historic crisis, then, for the good of humanity, he should resign.

As a top intelligence adviser told me yesterday, “What they did in Paris means they are coming here.”

In fact, they already are here. Law-enforcement officials say the FBI has as many as 1,000 investigations open into Islamic State sympathizers inside the US.

Is America ready to stop multiple assault teams of suicide bombers? Is New York ready? Or Chicago, Los Angeles or Washington, DC?

Because Paris was a grand success to the terrorists, the propaganda value acts as an incentive for attacks on other western cities. While sparing no effort to stop them here, we must simultaneously destroy them in their foreign bases.

World War III began when Osama bin Laden declared war on the United States, though we did not grasp the significance until 9/11. The collapse of the Twin Towers, a smoking hole in the Pentagon and a downed jetliner in Pennsylvania revealed the price of our inaction.

The single greatest attack ever against America galvanized the nation and defined a new generation of policy makers and warriors.

Yet Obama always remained curiously cool about the whole endeavor, denouncing the invasion of Iraq as dumb while holding up Afghanistan as a necessary war. Once he got to the White House, though, he showed no conviction about Afghanistan either, surging troops only to demand that they return home quickly.

The pattern has never changed, and his relationship with a rotating cast of military leaders remains rocky. Robert Gates, secretary of defense under both President Bush and Obama, said in his memoir that Obama’s distrust of the military was destructive of the very mission he had given the troops.

People in France light candles at a memorial for the victims of the Paris terror attacks.Photo: AP

After a heated 2011 meeting on Afghanistan, Gates concluded that Obama “doesn’t believe in his own strategy, and doesn’t consider the war to be his. For him, it’s all about getting out.”

Another former military leader, Gen. Jack Keane, notes that Obama never once agreed to the full request of his commanders. If they ask for 10,000 troops, Obama agrees to 5,000, 3,000 or none.

The raid that got bin Laden marked the high point of Obama’s commitment. He turned that achievement into political gold in 2012 and declared the “tide of war is receding” to justify his decision to withdraw from the field of battle.

It was a convenient figment of self-interest, as if his wish would make it true. Instead, the strategic dominos fell quickly as war metastasized. The hard-won gains in Iraq were reversed, Syria descended into hell and Islamic State was born in the vacuum.

Its ruthlessness and success in capturing territory enabled it to supplant al Qaeda as the most dangerous terrorist network. It has become the proverbial “strong horse,” with each terrifying attack bringing more recruits and more financing.

In the last two weeks, it shot down a commercial Russian airliner over Egypt and carried out bombings in Beirut. And then came Paris.

Its ability to inflict unprecedented casualties in such far-flung locations mark a growing strength and sophistication. The terrorists smell weakness and have increased the pace of their aggressive expansion. Their aim of global conquest must be taken seriously.

Photo: Getty Images

French President Francois Hollande understands the meaning of Friday’s slaughter. He called it an “act of war” and vowed that “France will not show any pity” against those who carried out the barbaric acts. World leaders quickly expressed their condolences and condemnation.

Yet it remains doubtful if our side is truly committed to winning. The determination and unity the free world showed after 9/11 faded as casualties, mistakes and politics eroded the mission.

So we are back to square one again, facing a stronger and more emboldened enemy. The time has run out for half measures and kicking the can down the road. The enemy must be destroyed on the battlefield before there can be any hope of peace.

If Obama cannot rise to the challenge of leadership in this historic crisis, then, for the good of humanity, he should resign. Those are the only options and it is his duty to decide.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
15 Nov 2015, 10:11
#66
15 Nov 2015, 10:11#66
 How in the world did this twit become president of the USA!!!

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
15 Nov 2015, 10:15
#67
15 Nov 2015, 10:15#67
 This appears to be why Obama has one nothing to counter the Islamic move to dominate the globe. He is agreat admirer of Isalm if not a muslim. What is stagerring is how little the Americans knew about the man they voted into power!


BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
15 Nov 2015, 10:22
#68
15 Nov 2015, 10:22#68
 The voice of sanity

WASHINGTON — It’s “insane” that Chancellor Angela Merkel is allowing so many male Syrian refugees into Germany, Donald Trump said Sunday.

“I’ve been watching this migration. And I see the people. I mean, they’re men, they’re mostly men, and they’re strong men,” Trump said on “Face the Nation.” “What I won’t do is take in 200,000 Syrians who could be ISIS.”

These are physically young, strong men. They look like prime-time soldiers. Now, it’s probably not true. But where are the women?” the GOP frontrunner wondered.

Merkel has welcomed the flood of mostly Syrian and Afghan refugees with compassion saying it’s her “damned duty” to help those running for their lives. An estimated 800,000 newcomers will arrive in Germany by the year’s end.

“What she’s done in Germany is insane. It’s insane. They’re having all sorts of attacks.”

The Gulf States “who have nothing but money” and others should find a big swath of land in Syria and create a safe zone to harbor families, Trump suggested. The US could help economically, but should limit taking in Syrian refugees because they could be terrorists.

“I love a safe zone for people,” Trump said. “I do not like the migration. I do not like the people coming.”

This could be the greatest Trojan horse,” Trump said. “This could make the Trojan horse look like peanuts if these people turned out to be a lot of ISIS.”

Obama agreed last month to allow 10,000 Syrians to seek refuge in the US over the next year. Secretary of State John Kerry recently pledged the US will take in more worldwide refugees by 2017 as the crisis worsens.

WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
15 Nov 2015, 10:24
#69
15 Nov 2015, 10:24#69
 Afghanistan was just farking stupid,of what value is there to anyone in that stinking pile of dirt ? Not worth one soldiers life as Alexander the Great the one and only man to conquer the dump put it  .Obama was right to pull back on troops there ,killing more good men doesnt make past sacrifices worthwhile .Ever.Nor was invading Iraq ,but now the same dopey fucks who created the mess now want to be part of the solution ? Even the generals involved have stuffed up big time just as they did in Viet Nam .And if Obama sends men to kill ISIS the republicans and thier cronies better stfu and actually back him.You cant have a limited war ,its like being just a little bit pregnant.Enough with garbage like Obama is a muslim ,its just farking retarded hillbilly nonsense.
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
15 Nov 2015, 10:51
#70
15 Nov 2015, 10:51#70
I totally agree with Moz's idea about assisting them in fixing the problems at home rather than finding them a new home. Let's remember that the assassination of one man lead to WW1. Now, we have Russia and the USA are backing different parties in the Syrian conflict. The US did not learn their lesson in Iraq and seek to create the same horrible situation in Syria, while Russia seem to have the same policy as Wardad, and I tend to agree. How long before they cross swords directly? My fear, as cynical as I admit it is, is that the US are goading Russia. The reason being that BRIC are after the same goal as Saddam and Khadafi, moving away from the Petro-Dollar. America will do anything to prevent this because if we start trading oil in Euros or for gold, the US economy will become third world over night. For 12 months now China and Russia have been dropping US stocks all over the shop. They've actually been pretty smart in that they've used the revenue from these stocks to increase their footprint in Africa and South America and a few other places. I'm very happy for SA to be opposing the US. As time has gone on, and although he is a criminal, i somehow find myself starting to like Putin. I must be mad. The guy is 100% a gangster, but somehow I feel like we need a rough neck to kick the US in the face. And it's a shame, as I know most yanks are good people. Good people like Becs and Beeno, but utterly misguided.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
15 Nov 2015, 10:52
#71
15 Nov 2015, 10:52#71
 Here he bows to muslim king
PE
poi-ePro1,044 posts
15 Nov 2015, 11:01
#72
15 Nov 2015, 11:01#72
 Here comes the lunatic fringe
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
15 Nov 2015, 11:05
#73
15 Nov 2015, 11:05#73
 At least one can see why Obama does zip.Fortunately his term in office, a disaster in every respect, is coming to an end.
With Clinton and Trump calling for the defeat of ISIS their doom is assured. It is however essentail ALL muslims are sent back to muslim lands. The reason being the koran urges them on to heinious acts against non muslims. The goal of world domuantion will never cease as it is the koran fueling this. They will never be able to coexist and thgus must go.
End of story.Plum you are a half wit and have no clue whatsoever.  You would be like chamberlain and who would not believe in Hitlers plans even though they had been written down in back and white for all to see.
Thank goodness for the yanks otherwise todat we would be under the boot of the Nazi or under the boot of the communists.The yanks will come to their senses about islam and it is the jihardists who are doing an excellent job educating them . Another positive is that folk are becoming aware of the some of the jihardist suras in the koranThe Koran's 164 Jihad Verses12:178263:156514:103768:5710109:02912629:6915159:0522:179273:157524:104778:5810209:03612733:1515259:0632:190283:158534:141788:5910309:03812833:1815359:0742:191293:165545:033798:6010409:03912933:2015459:0852:193303:166555:035808:6510509:04113033:2315559:1462:194313:167565:082818:6610609:04413133:2515660:0972:216323:169578:001828:6710709:05213233:2615761:0482:217333:172588:005838:6810809:07313333:2715861:1192:218343:173598:007848:6910909:08113433:5015961:13102:244353:195608:009858:7011009:08313542:3916063:04113:121364:071618:010868:7111109:08613647:0416164:14123:122374:072628:012878:7211209:08813747:2016266:09133:123384:074638:015888:7311309:09213847:3516373:20143:124394:075648:016898:7411409:11113948:1516476:08153:125404:076658:017908:7511509:12014048:16163:126414:077668:039919:0511609:12214148:17173:140424:084678:040929:1211709:12314248:18183:141434:089688:041939:1311816:11014348:19193:142444:090698:042949:1411922:03914448:20203:143454:091708:043959:1612022:05814548:21213:146464:094718:044969:1912122:07814648:22223:152474:095728:045979:2012224:05314748:23233:153484:100738:046989:2412324:05514848:24243:154494:101748:047999:2512425:05214949:15253:155504:102758:0481009:2612529:006


The more folk know about the teachings of the koran the more they will understand the problem

PE
poi-ePro1,044 posts
15 Nov 2015, 11:21
#74
15 Nov 2015, 11:21#74
PE
poi-ePro1,044 posts
15 Nov 2015, 11:24
#75
15 Nov 2015, 11:24#75
 It's funny that the amount of hateful small minded opinions often come from those who claim to be the most Christian.  You're a disgrace Been Bag
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
15 Nov 2015, 11:39
#76
15 Nov 2015, 11:39#76
 People want to pray to whatever deity floats their boat that those jizzrags that did this dont ever get a former SAS trooper in their ranks .Just from working with them in a support role I picked up 3 easily implimented things that would ratchet up the terror and misery tenfold .You have no idea how much worse it can get .As far as religion goes theres plenty of blame and misery to go around from all of them including christians , just talk to an old schoolmate of mine who was a peacekeeper at Kosovo how fanaticism knows no bounds .
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
15 Nov 2015, 11:45
#77
15 Nov 2015, 11:45#77
 Here is what the koran teaches about non muslims. Take some time to look through thsi and you will begin to understand what is at play.Its not what I think its what the koran teaches:

 Introduction

Why the Violence?  Why the Indifference?

On September 25, 2002, a group of armed Islamists in Karachi, Pakistan entered the office of a Christian charity, tied seven workers to chairs and then brutally murdered them.  According to Muslim witnesses, the Muslims "showed no haste. They took a good 15 minutes in segregating the Christians and making sure that each one of their targets received the most horrific death."

The killing of non-Muslim humanitarian workers by devout followers of Islam occurs quite often. While there is rarely any celebration on the part of other Muslims, neither is there much outrage expressed by a community renowned for its peevishness.

While rumors of a Quran desecration or a Muhammad cartoon bring out deadly protests, riots, arson and effigy-burnings, the mass murder of non-Muslims fails to raise any sort of real passion. In the eleven years following 9/11 nearly 20,000 acts of deadly Islamic terrorism were perpetrated, yet all of them together do not provoke the sort of outrage on the part of most Muslims that the mere mention of Abu Ghraib or Guantanamo inspires.

This critical absence of moral perspective puzzles many Westerners, particularly those trying to reconcile this reality with the politically-correct assumption that Islam is like other religion.  The Judeo-Christian tradition preaches universal love and unselfishness, so it is expected that the more devout Muslims would be the most peaceful and least dangerous... provided that Islam is based on the same principles.

But beneath the rosy assurances from Muslim apologists that Islam is about peace and tolerance lies a much darker reality that better explains the violence and deeply-rooted indifference.  Quite simply, the Quran teaches supremacy, hatred and hostility.

Consider the elements that define hate speech:

  • Drawing a distinction between one’s own identity group and those outside it
  • Moral comparison based on this distinction
  • Devaluation or dehumanization of other groups and the personal superiority of one's own
  • The advocating of different standards of treatment based on identity group membership
  • A call to violence against members of other groups

Sadly, and despite the best intentions of many decent people who are Muslim, the Quran qualifies as hate speech on each count.

The holiest book of Islam (61% of which is about non-Muslims) draws the sharpest of distinctions between Muslims (the best of people, 3:110) and non-believers (the worst of creatures, 98:6).  Praise is lavished on the former while the latter is condemned with scorching generalization. 

Far from teaching universal love, the Quran incessantly preaches the inferiority of non-Muslims, even comparing them to vile animals and gloating over Allah's hatred of them and his dark plans for their eternal torture.  Muslims are told that they are destined to dominate non-believers, against whom harsh treatment is encouraged.

Polished Muslim pundits in the West are fond of using the word 'bigot' to describe critics of Islam, but they are rarely challenged on their own view of the Quran.  What does the book they claim to be the literal and eternal word of Allah really say about non-Muslims?

 

The Quran Distinguishes Muslims from Non-Muslims
and Establishes a Hierarchy of Relative Worth

The Quran makes it clear that Islam is not about universal brotherhood, but about the brotherhood of believers:

The Believers are but a single Brotherhood (49:10)

Not all men are equal under Islam.  Slaves and the handicapped are not equal to healthy free men, for example (16:75-76).  The Quran introduces the “Law of Equality,” which establishes different levels of human value when considering certain matters, such as restitution for murder (2:178).

Neither are Muslim believers equal to non-Muslims:

Are those who know equal to those who know not? (39:09)

Is the blind equal to the one who sees"  Or darkness equal to light? (13:16)

A believing slave is superior to an unbeliever (2:221)

The Quran plainly tells Muslims that they are a favored race, while those of other religions are “perverted transgressors”:

Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book[Christians and Jews] had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors. (3:110)

As we shall see later, Allah condemns non-Muslims to Hell based merely on their unbelief, while believers are rewarded with the finest earthly comforts in the hereafter, including never-ending food, wine and sex (56:12-40). 

Much of the Quran is devoted to distinguishing Muslims from non-Muslims and impugning the latter.  Among other things, non-Muslims are said to be diseased (2:10), perverse (2:99), stupid (2:171) and deceitful (3:73).

The first sura of the Quran is a short prayer that is repeated by devout Muslims each day and ends with these words:

Keep us on the right path. The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray. (1:6-7)
Muhammad was once asked if this pertained to Jews and Christians.  His response was, "Whom else?" (Bukhari 56:662).

Since Allah makes such a strong distinction between Muslims and those outside the faith, it is only natural that Muslims should incorporate disparate standards of treatment into their daily lives.  The Quran tells Muslims to be compassionate with one another but ruthless to the infidel:

Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are severe against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves (48:29)

The Arabic word used to describe the ideal treatment of non-Muslims (shin-dal-dal) is the same word used in over 25 places in the Quran to describe how painful Allah has made Hell for them.

Islamic law actually forbids formal Muslim charity (in the form of the zakat payment) from being used to meet the needs of non-believers.

Allah intends for Muslims to triumph over unbelievers:

And never will Allah grant to the unbelievers a way to triumph over believers[Pickthall – “any way of success”] (4:141)

The only acceptable position of non-Muslims to Muslims is subjugation under Islamic rule:

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (9:29 Jizya is the money that non-Muslims must pay to their Muslim overlords in a pure Islamic state.)

A common criticism of many Muslims is that they often behave arrogantly toward others.  Now you know why.

 

The Quran Dehumanizes Non-Muslims
and Says that They are Vile Animals

The Ayatollah Khomeini, who dedicated his entire life to studying Islam, said that non-Muslims  rank somewhere between "feces" and the "sweat of a camel that has consumed impure food."  Small wonder.  The Quran dehumanizes non-Muslims, describing them as “animals” and beasts:

Those who disbelieve from among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures. (98:6)

Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe. (8:55)

Verse 7:176 compares unbelievers to "panting dogs" with regard to their idiocy and worthlessness.  Verse 7:179 says they are like "cattle" only worse. 

Verse 5:60 says the unbelievers are unclean.  Verse 6:111 says they are ignorant.  Verse 23:55 says they are helpers of the devil.

Verse 5:60 even says that Allah transformed Jews of the past into apes and pigs.  This is echoed by verses 7:166 and 2:65

A hadith (Bukhari 54:524) says that Muhammad believed rats to be "mutated Jews" (also confirmed by Sahih Muslim 7135 and 7136).

Verses 46:29-35 even say that unbelieving men are worse than the demons who believe in Muhammad. 

According to Islamic law, non-Muslims may be owned as property by Muslims, but - in keeping with Islam's supremacist message - a fellow Muslim should never be (unless they convert to Islam under enslavement).  Even Christians and Jews are not considered fully human in that the penalty for killing one of them is limited to one-third of the compensation due for unintentionally killing a Muslim.

 

The Quran Says that Allah does NOT Love Unbelievers

Christianity teaches that God loves all people, but hates sin.  The Quran never says this.  Instead it explicitly declares that Allah does not love those who do not believe in him:

He does not love the unbelievers (30:45)

Allah only loves those who obey Muhammad (at least according to Muhammad, who provided the "narration"):

 Say: "Obey Allah and His Messenger": But if they turn back, Allah loveth notthose who reject Faith. (3:32)

Instead of a god that loves the sinner, even while hating the sin, the wrath of Allah is placed squarely on the individual:

Surely Allah does not love any one who is unfaithful, ungrateful. (22:38)

Verses 11:118-199 say that Allah does not bestow mercy on everyone.  For this reason, he chooses not to guide some people:

And Allah's is the direction of the way, and some (roads) go not straight. And had He willed He would have led you all aright. (16:9)

For those whom Allah does not love, there will be the most terrible of eternal torments, including eternal roasting:

Those who reject our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire: as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty: for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise. (4:56)

"Allah is the enemy of the unbelievers" (2:98) and, as we shall see, he hates them so much that he even leads them into sinning and actively prevents them from believing in him, thus ensuring their fate.

 

The Quran Says that Non-Muslims are
Destined for Eternal Torture in Hell

Although nowhere does the Quran say that Allah loves those who don’t believe Muhammad, there are over 400 verses that describe the torment that he has prepared for people of other religions (or no religion):

And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers (3:85)

The relative worth of non-Muslims is that they are but fuel for the fire of Hell:

(As for) those who disbelieve, surely neither their wealth nor their children shall avail them in the least against Allah, and these it is who are the fuel of the fire (3:10Shakir: "firewood of hell")

As they are fueling the fire, unbelievers will be tormented by Allah’s angels on his command:

“O ye who believe! Ward off from yourselves and your families a Fire whereof the fuel is men and stones, over which are set angels strong, severe, who resist not Allah in that which He commandeth them, but do that which they are commanded.”(66:6)

It doesn’t matter how many good deeds an unbeliever does, because they count for nothing with Allah:

The parable of those who reject their Lord is that their works are as ashes, on which the wind blows furiously on a tempestuous day: No power have they over aught that they have earned (14:18)

Shall we tell you of those who lose most in respect of their deeds?  Those whose efforts have been wasted in this life, while they thought that they were acquiring good by their works?  They are those who deny the Signs of their Lord and the fact of their having to meet Him (in the Hereafter): vain will be their works, nor shall We, on the Day of Judgment, give them any weight.  That is their reward, Hell, because they rejected Faith, and took My Signs and My Messengers by way of jest. (18:103-106)

Muhammad told his people that anyone who rejects his claim to be a prophet will go to Hell:

Surely those who disbelieve in Allah and His messengers and (those who) desire to make a distinction between Allah and His messengers and say: ‘We believe in some and disbelieve in others’, and desire to take a course between (this and) that. These it is that are truly unbelievers, and We have prepared for the unbelievers a disgraceful chastisement. And those who believe in Allah and His messengers and do not make a distinction between any of them-- Allah will grant them their rewards(4:150-152)

In Christianity, punishment in the hereafter is directly tied to sin and ‘wickedness.’  There is relatively little said about Hell, but the emphasis is on personal suffering for selfish or cruel deeds.  In Islam, Hell is a punishment for merely not believing Muhammad’s personal claims about himself.  In contrast to the Bible, every 12th verse of the Quran speaks of Hell and vividly describes Allah’s wrath on unbelievers:

But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads, Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning. (22:19-22)

No one could torture a person in this way without hating them intensely.  Neither can Allah’s intense loathing for unbelievers help but affect the Muslim attitude toward those outside the faith. 

The personal superiority of Muslims is confirmed by the contrasting picture painted in so many places in the Quran in which they are rewarded with the greatest of earthly comforts in heaven, while the unbelievers concurrently suffer horrible torment (see Sura 56 for just one example).

 

Allah Himself Prevents Non-Muslims from Understanding

It would make no sense if Allah gave the people that he hates an opportunity to avoid his wrath.  The Quran says that Allah deliberately puts obstacles in the way of unbelievers to keep them from accepting the truth:

If Allah wished, he could provide guidance to every soul:

If We had so willed, We could certainly have brought every soul its true guidance(32:13)

But, instead he sets a veil over the hearts and coverings over their ears:

Verily We have set veils over their hearts lest they should understand this, and over their ears, deafness, if thou callest them to guidance, even then will they never accept guidance. (18:57) – See also 17:46 & 45:23

Allah even uses chains and barriers to prevent unbelievers from believing:

Certainly the word has proved true of most of them, so they do not believe.  Surely We have placed chains on their necks, and these reach up to their chins, so they have their heads raised aloft. And We have made before them a barrier and a barrier behind them, then We have covered them over so that they do not see. And it is alike to them whether you warn them or warn them not: they do not believe. (36:7-10)

For the same purpose, Allah also fills the hearts of unbelievers with doubt:

No soul can believe, except by the will of Allah, and He will place doubt (or obscurity) on those who will not understand (10:100)

 

Allah Actually Causes Non-Muslims to Sin

Not content with merely preventing unbelievers from knowing the truth (which is enough to condemn them to Hell) the Quran says that a hateful Allah also causes unbelievers to commit the very sin that he will later punish them for:

And if Allah please He would certainly make you a single nation, but He causes to err whom He pleases and guides whom He pleases; and most certainly you will be questioned as to what you did (16:93)

Although Satan tempts Muslims, it is Allah himself who causes unbelievers to err.

…and whomsoever Allah causes to err, you shall not find a way for him. (4:143, see also 4:88 and 74:31)

Allah intentionally sends the people that he hates astray:

…and Allah sendeth him astray purposely, and sealeth up his hearing and his heart, and setteth on his sight a covering? Then who will lead him after Allah (hath condemned him)? Will ye not then heed? (45:23)

Allah even sends demons to inspire unbelievers to commit further bad deeds (that he can later hold against them):

See thou not that We have set the Evil Ones on against the unbelievers, to incite them with fury? (19:83)

According to verse 3:54, Allah plots and schemes against unbelievers using deceit (the literal meaning of makara, the word used).  Elsewhere, the Quran explains that Allah tricks unbelievers into thinking that they are doing good deeds, when, in fact, they are merely deepening their own eternal punishment with bad deeds:

As to those who do not believe in the hereafter, We have surely made their deeds fair-seeming to them, but they blindly wander on. (27:4)  See also 39:236:39,35:813:27 & 14:4)

Allah recruits Satan to join Him into fooling unbelievers into thinking that they are doing good:

On the contrary their hearts became hardened, and Satan made their (sinful) acts seem alluring to them. (6:43)

The joke is on non-Muslims, of course, who will protest on Judgment Day that they did everything they thought was right – but are sent to Hell anyway:

Then would they offer submission (with the pretence), "We did no evil (knowingly)." (The angels will reply), "Nay, but verily Allah knows all that ye did; "So enter the gates of Hell, to dwell therein. (16:28-29)

 

The Quran Says that Non-Muslims Should Not be Taken as Friends

Given that Allah hates non-Muslims to the extent that he would prevent them from knowing the truth, cause them to err and then condemn them to eternal torture for their unbelief and misdeeds, it would make little sense if he intended Muslims to treat unbelievers by the same standards that they treat each other here on earth.

The Quran says that no true Muslim would ever love anyone who resists Islam, even if it is a family member:

Thou wilt not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, loving those who resist Allah and His Messenger, even though they were their fathers or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred. (58:22)

There are at least nine places in the Quran where believers are warned not to befriend non-Muslims:

O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves? (4:144

In fact, anyone who does take a non-Muslim as a friend could be accused of being an unbeliever as well:

O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk. (5:51)

Note that Christians, according to the Quran, are included in the ranks of "unbelievers":

They indeed have disbelieved who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary (5:17)

Muhammad said that unbelievers have it out for Muslims.  They may appear harmless or friendly, but, in reality, they harbor corruption and evil intentions:

O ye who believe! Take not into your intimacy those outside your ranks: They will not fail to corrupt you. They only desire your ruin: Rank hatred has already appeared from their mouths: What their hearts conceal is far worse (3:118)

For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies (4:101)

As for them, they are but plotting a scheme (86:15)

Those outside of Islam are really helpers of evil against Allah:

The Misbeliever is a helper (of Evil), against his own Lord! (25:55)

The Quran says that "hostility and hate" will exist between Muslims and infidels "for ever" until the latter "believe in Allah alone." (60:4)

Instead of befriending non-Muslims, the Quran encourages hostility.  Muslims are ordered to fight unbelievers:

O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty. (9:123)

The Quran tells Muslims that they will spend eternity laughing at unbelievers (83:34) and mocking their suffering as they are tortured in Hell:

And the dwellers of the garden will call out to the inmates of the fire: Surely we have found what our Lord promised us to be true; have you too found what your Lord promised to be true? They will say: Yes. Then a crier will cry out among them that the curse of Allah is on the unjust. (7:44) – Muhammad got an early start on this by personally mocking his dead enemies following the Battle of Badr (Ibn Ishaq 454)

One does not befriend those over whose suffering they will later rejoice, nor does it make any sense that Muslims would befriend those whom the Quran labels "enemies of Allah" by virtue of their unbelief. 

 

The Quran Says that Other Religions are Cursed by Allah

Buddhists in Thailand, Jews in Israel, Christians in Indonesia, Hindus in India...  Why is Islam at war with every major world religion, when none of these religions are at war with each other?  Part of the reason is that the Quran is specific about the inferiority of other faiths (see 48:28) and the hatred that Allah harbors for their people.

Although it is common for Muslims to become upset about anyone “insulting” their religion, here is what the Quran says about Jews and Christians:

The Jews call Ezra a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! (9:30) (See also Bukhari 8:427), one of the last things Muhammad ever said on his deathbed was "May Allah curse the Jews and Christians.”)

The Quran specifically addresses Christians, Jews, Polytheists (Hindus) and atheists:

Christians are disbelievers (98:5-6) and blasphemers (5:175:73) who have invented a lie about Allah (10:68-69) by ascribing partners to Allah (ie. the Trinity).  Inventing a lie about Allah is the worst of sins (7:3729:68) and for this reason Christians are condemned to Hell (10:70).  Although one (early Medinan) verse seems to say that righteous Christians will go to heaven, this is abrogated by later verses that make it very clear that Christians must cease being Christian (ie. reject the Trinity) or suffer eternal torment for their beliefs (5:72-73).

Jews are also cursed by Allah (5:13), in one of his final pronouncements.  The Quran goes on to assure Muslims that Jews are wicked (4:160-162) – so wicked, in fact, that they have somehow managed to do the impossible (18:27) and alter the word of Allah (2:75).  Jews are “fond of lies”and “devour the forbidden” (5:42).

The Quran assures believers that Jews and Christians have “diseased hearts” (5:52).  Allah even takes credit for the enmity between them (5:14).  Only Jews and Christians who submit to Islamic subjugation and pay the Jizya are protected in this world (9:29 & Ibn Ishaq 956).

Hindus are polytheists.  Although Muhammad didn’t know any Hindus (and neither did Allah, apparently) the Quran still manages to lay the groundwork for the 1000-year ethnic cleansing campaign against the Hindu people that is estimated to have taken tens of millions of innocent lives.  In Islam, polytheists are worse than all other religion.  Those who join idols (14:30) or false gods (11:14) to Allah also invent a lie about Him (29:17) and will burn in Hell.  Even believing in other divine entities along with Allah is an unforgivable crime (4:4840:12).

Atheists believe in no god, which is even worse than believing in the wrong one (Muhammad and his successors had atheists put to death - Bukhari 84:57).  Merely questioning the existence of Allah is a testament to one’s impiety (25:21), even as Muslim narcissism is encouraged in the Quran.  Muhammad always answered probing questions merely by telling the inquiring party that they would go to Hell if they didn’t believe in him (36:49-64).  The Quran discourages Muslims from intellectual inquiry (5:101-102).

Any Muslim who gives up his religion is a “perverted transgressor” (3:82).  Perverted as well is anyone who denies Allah (40:63) or does not believe Muhammad (2:99).  Freedom of conscience does not exist in Islam.  Muhammad clearly prescribed the death penalty for apostates (Bukhari52:260).

While contemporary Muslim apologists often speak of “dialogue” (meaning a unilateral arrangement in which they tell you about Islam while you listen) the Quran speaks of Jihad instead:

Listen not to the unbelievers, but strive (Jihad) against them with the utmost strenuousness. (25:52)

What would be the point in hearing anything a non-Muslim has to say... or even talking with them for that matter?  Allah has already sealed their hearts and condemned them to Hell:

As for the Disbelievers, Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is all one for them; they believe not. Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom (2:6)

For those wondering why Allah would even make infidels if their ultimate destination is Hell, Muhammad said that the purpose of some (Jews and Christians, at least) was to take the place of Muslims, so that they would not suffer there (Sahih Muslim 6666).

 

The Quran Says that People of Other Religions
are to be Violently Punished in This World

Allah himself fights against the unbelievers (9:30), so why should Muslims not fight in his cause rather than in the cause of evil (4:76)?  About 19% of the Quran is devoted to the violent conquest and subjugation of non-Muslims:

Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies of Allah and your enemies and others besides, whom ye may not know (8:60)

Strive hard (Jihad) against the Unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed.  (66:9, See also 9:73)

Muslims are to expect a reward in this life as well as the next (4:134), so it makes sense that unbelievers should be punished in this life as well:

…He whom Allah sendeth astray, for him there is no guide. For them is a penalty in the life of this world, but harder, truly, is the penalty of the Hereafter… (13:33-34)

There are at least two places in the Quran where the violent death of non-Muslims is referred to as Allah's reward for unbelief (2:1919:26), as in "such is the reward for unbelievers."  Verse 3:56,  bluntly states that "those who reject faith" will be "punished with terrible agony in this world" (a vow that Muhammad and his companions personally took it upon themselves to fulfill).

The Quran tells Muslims that Allah uses them to violently punish others:

Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace...(9:14)

Allah could slay unbelievers himself, but he makes it a test for Muslims to prove their faith:

"If it had been Allah's Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight), in order to test you, by means of others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost"  (47:4)

One of the most violent chapters in the Quran charters Muhammad and his followers with making Islam"superior over all religions" (9:33).

In the end, All beings on heaven and earth will be forced to bow down to Allah, either willingly or by force:

And unto Allah falleth prostrate whosoever is in the heavens and the earth,willingly or unwillingly (13:15)

Muslims are told that Allah "loves those who fight in his way" to make Islam "victorious over all other religions, even though the disbelievers resist" (61:4-11). Those who do resist Islam will be humiliated:

Those who resist Allah and His Messenger will be among those most humiliated.(58:20 - The context for this verse is the eviction of the Jewish tribes of Medina and the confiscation of their wealth, land, and children by Muhammad).

Non-Muslims are to be fought until religion is only for Allah:

And fight them until there is no more ftna (unbelief, worshipping others beside Allah), and religion is all for Allah (8:39 – Some translate the word "fitna" as “persecution”, but in this context it means resistance to Islam – defined in the prior verse as an unwillingness to believe (see verse 38).  This passage was “revealed” following a battle that Muhammad deliberately provoked.  Verse 2:193 essentially says the same thing and was also “revealed” at a time when the Muslims were notunder physical attack).

Those with "diseased hearts" - which include Christians and Jews according to 5:52 - are to be"seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter" (33:60-62) along with "hypocrites" (Muslims who are judged not to be true believers by their associations with unbelievers or their unwillingness to engage in Jihad).

Non-Muslims are to be encroached on, pressured and punished by the Muslims:

See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? (13:41 - See also 21:44)

We shall punish them gradually from directions they perceive not. (68:44)

And He made you heirs to their land and their dwellings and their property, and (to) a land which you have not yet trodden, and Allah has power over all things. (33:27, See also Bukhari 53:392)

Allah will grant Muslims authority and power over all other people:

Allah has promised, to those among you who believe and work righteous deeds, that He will, of a surety, grant them in the land, inheritance (of power), as He granted it to those before them; that He will establish in authority their religion... (24:55)

(Muhammad's companions continued to self-fulfill this prophecy with an aggressive and senseless military expansion that left a trail of bodies from Spain to India).

Allah provides instructions to Muslims for dealing with unbelievers who are unwilling to accept Islamic rule:

Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them." This because they contended against Allah and His Messenger: If any contend against Allah and His Messenger, Allah is strict in punishment. (8:12-13)

Defeating non-Muslims should be easy for true believers because they are superior in intelligence and understanding:

O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there be of you twenty steadfast they shall overcome two hundred, and if there be of you a hundred (steadfast) they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they (the disbelievers) are a folk without intelligence (8:65)

Other verses of violence may be found here.

Remember that the Quran says that not all men are equal according to Islam.  This even applies to Muslims with regard to their aggressiveness toward unbelievers.  Those who kill or are killed on behalf of Islam are more pleasing to Allah:

Not equal are those of the believers who sit at home... and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and lives" (4:95)

 

Conclusion

The pattern of violence and aggressive disregard for human suffering that is persistent in Muslim history and contemporary attitude toward non-believers reflects the message of the Quran, which is one of personal superiority and arrogance.

In today's world, Muslim dominance is characterized by the oppression and discrimination of non-Muslims, while Muslim minorities within larger societies are distinguished by varying degrees of petulant demand, discord and armed rebellion.  Few Muslims are uncomfortable with this blatant double standard, in which Islam either plays the victim or unapologetically victimizes others, depending on its position of power - and the reason is obvious.

Islam is a supremacist ideology in which the role of non-believers is subordinate to the position of Muslims.  Those who resist Islamic rule are to be fought until they are either killed or fully humiliated and forced to acknowledge their inferior status by converting to Islam or by paying a poll-tax and otherwise accepting the subjugation of their own religion.

There is simply no other religion on earth that draws such sharp distinction between its own members and others, or devotes as much of its holiest text toward condemning and dehumanizing those who merely choose not to follow its dogma.   

So much about Islamic terrorism and the general indifference of the broader Muslim community toward the violence makes sense only against this dual nature of Islam - as does the strange willingness of Muhammad's followers to tolerate their own subjugation under Ottoman or Arab tyrants, such as Saddam Hussein, while being violently opposed to a Jewish neighbor state.

The apologists are correct in saying that Islam teaches love and kindness, but they fail to add that this applies only to the treatment of those within the Muslim community.  Loyalty to one's own identity group is valued above all else and empathy for those outside the faith is optional at best - and even explicitly discouraged in places.

If this is a "misunderstanding" of Islam by modern-day "radicals," then it is an error that the founder of Islam made as well.  In Muhammad's time, non-Muslims were put to death merely for speaking out against the new religion and its self-proclaimed prophet.  Likewise, the Jews of Qurayza were summarily rounded-up and executed on Muhammad's order, even though they had not even fought in battle.  Since the life of a non-Muslim is cheap, actual physical harm to a Muslim is not necessary to justify murder according to the example of Muhammad.

The Quran meets every criterion by which we define hate speech.  Not only does the message inspire loathing and disregard for others, but the text mandates the superiority of Islam, even if the means of establishment is by violent force. 

In his later years, Muhammad directed military campaigns to subjugate other tribes and religions, "inviting" them to Islam at the point of a sword and forcing them to pay tribute regardless.  He set in motion the aggressive military campaigns that made war against all five major world religions in just the first few decades following his death.

Islam incorporates the ultimate devaluation of non-Muslims in the most obvious way by teaching that while a Muslim may be punished with death for murdering a fellow Muslim (Bukhari 83:17), no Muslim can be put to death for killing a non-Muslim (Bukhari 83:503:111 - Muhammad: "No Muslim can be killed for killing a kafir.").  The Quran’s "Law of Equality," which assigns human value and rights based on gender, religion and status, is the polar opposite of equality in the sense intended by Western liberal tradition, which ideally respects no such distinction.

One can always find apologists willing to dismiss the harsh rhetoric of the Quran with creative interpretation, tortuous explanation or outright denial, but their words and deeds almost always belie a concern for Islam's image that does not extend to Islam's victims - at least not with the same sense of urgency - thus proving the point.

Of course, there are also exceptional Muslims who do not agree with Islamic supremacy and sincerely champion secularism and respect for all people.  Some even find verses or fragments of such to support their independent beliefs.  But, for these people, the Quran as a whole will always be a constant challenge, since it explicitly teaches the distinct and inferior status of non-Muslims.

TheReligionofPeace.com Home Page

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
15 Nov 2015, 12:02
#78
15 Nov 2015, 12:02#78
 I thought this conclusion summed it up very well:

Conclusion

The pattern of violence and aggressive disregard for human suffering that is persistent in Muslim history and contemporary attitude toward non-believers reflects the message of the Quran, which is one of personal superiority and arrogance.

In today's world, Muslim dominance is characterized by the oppression and discrimination of non-Muslims, while Muslim minorities within larger societies are distinguished by varying degrees of petulant demand, discord and armed rebellion.  Few Muslims are uncomfortable with this blatant double standard, in which Islam either plays the victim or unapologetically victimizes others, depending on its position of power - and the reason is obvious.

Islam is a supremacist ideology in which the role of non-believers is subordinate to the position of Muslims.  Those who resist Islamic rule are to be fought until they are either killed or fully humiliated and forced to acknowledge their inferior status by converting to Islam or by paying a poll-tax and otherwise accepting the subjugation of their own religion.

There is simply no other religion on earth that draws such sharp distinction between its own members and others, or devotes as much of its holiest text toward condemning and dehumanizing those who merely choose not to follow its dogma. 

  

So much about Islamic terrorism and the general indifference of the broader Muslim community toward the violence makes sense only against this dual nature of Islam - as does the strange willingness of Muhammad's followers to tolerate their own subjugation under Ottoman or Arab tyrants, such as Saddam Hussein, while being violently opposed to a Jewish neighbor state.

The apologists are correct in saying that Islam teaches love and kindness, but they fail to add that this applies only to the treatment of those within the Muslim community.  Loyalty to one's own identity group is valued above all else and empathy for those outside the faith is optional at best - and even explicitly discouraged in places.

If this is a "misunderstanding" of Islam by modern-day "radicals," then it is an error that the founder of Islam made as well.  In Muhammad's time, non-Muslims were put to death merely for speaking out against the new religion and its self-proclaimed prophet.  Likewise, the Jews of Qurayza were summarily rounded-up and executed on Muhammad's order, even though they had not even fought in battle.  Since the life of a non-Muslim is cheap, actual physical harm to a Muslim is not necessary to justify murder according to the example of Muhammad.

The Quran meets every criterion by which we define hate speech.  Not only does the message inspire loathing and disregard for others, but the text mandates the superiority of Islam, even if the means of establishment is by violent force. 

In his later years, Muhammad directed military campaigns to subjugate other tribes and religions, "inviting" them to Islam at the point of a sword and forcing them to pay tribute regardless.  He set in motion the aggressive military campaigns that made war against all five major world religions in just the first few decades following his death.

Islam incorporates the ultimate devaluation of non-Muslims in the most obvious way by teaching that while a Muslim may be punished with death for murdering a fellow Muslim (Bukhari 83:17), no Muslim can be put to death for killing a non-Muslim (Bukhari 83:503:111 - Muhammad: "No Muslim can be killed for killing a kafir.").  


The Quran’s "Law of Equality," which assigns human value and rights based on gender, religion and status, is the polar opposite of equality in the sense intended by Western liberal tradition, which ideally respects no such distinction.

One can always find apologists willing to dismiss the harsh rhetoric of the Quran with creative interpretation, tortuous explanation or outright denial, but their words and deeds almost always belie a concern for Islam's image that does not extend to Islam's victims - at least not with the same sense of urgency - thus proving the point.

Of course, there are also exceptional Muslims who do not agree with Islamic supremacy and sincerely champion secularism and respect for all people.  Some even find verses or fragments of such to support their independent beliefs.  But, for these people, the Quran as a whole will always be a constant challenge, since it explicitly teaches the distinct and inferior status of non-Muslims


So it is then that the koran cannot be changed. Its followers have to follow these teaching and thus cannot coexist with others. The world needs to understand the nature of islam and it is beginning to do so. The many barbourous barbarous acts have had unintended consequences for islam.

The lunatic fringe like poooie carry no credence whatsoever today. The koran gives the direction and the barbarous acts follow on from there. Nobody can dispoute this.

I put up a video link which mysteriously disappered. it showed a mullah being quized on his attitide to the bombings etc and the mullah jutifying all this from the koran.

Whether it was removed by the Ed here or hacked I dont know. What is certain is that one does not need to villify i slam. All one does is let them speak and they do it themsleves. 


WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
15 Nov 2015, 12:02
#79
15 Nov 2015, 12:02#79
Beendip I know muslims dont like non muslims ,same way many Irish Catholics despise Irish Protestants and on it farking goes .Personally I dont care what any fanatic religious or otherwise thinks as its all frigging nonsense anyway .So long as they stay away from me and my family I dont give a sh!t what garbage religious loonies beleive in .  
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
15 Nov 2015, 12:14
#80
15 Nov 2015, 12:14#80
 Wardad I am making ahuge point here. Go and look through the teachings of christ and you will not find this hate dfilled muck. On the other hand the koran itself call on muslims to do all sorts of dispicable things. HUGE DIFFERENCE. Christs teachings DO NOT TEACH IRISH CATHOLICS TO HATE PROTESTANTS. THAT JUST SINFUL MAN NOT FOLLOWING THE TEACHING.MUSLIMS BELIEVE THE KORAN IS THE moon gods word to them and has to be obeyed.
because of what they see as divine guidance they cannot coexist with others. The koran teaches for example  - Muhammad: "No Muslim can be killed for killing a kafir." no Muslim can be put to death for killing a non-Muslim (Bukhari 83:503:111

Read what I have posted above.
IT IS BEACSUE OF WHAT THE KORAN TEACHES THAT A CHANGE OF ATTITUDE CANNOT BE EXPECTED FROM BELIEVING MUSLIM S. This is what is going to cause huge problems  
↓ LOAD MORE (page 3 of 5)

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