Compatibility of Science and Religion . . .

.

Richard Dawkins/QuotesWe are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further---

It is amazing that most religious people can see the absurdity of other religions- but not their own. The Abrahamic religions have the same old testament- except for some editing done over the years by each religion to support their changing ideology over the years. E.g. Islam, Christianity, Jewish.Even some Christians like Beeno says that the Catholic Church is evil. A lot of Baal.

How many people did the Devil kill during the Bible compared to God? God makes the devil look like mister nice guy.
The devil was an angel and he can play the guitar. He will always have a place for you in the afterlife, even if God does not. So that devil is not as bad as some will have you believe. Hansie Cronje was allowed into hell where he currently captains an undefeated cricket team.

The bible was a terrible moral compass.....compared to what? Going across to the next tribe, stealing their cattle, killing their elders and children, putting the young men and ugly women in the fields and raping the pretty ones? The God of the Old Testament was an authoritarian figure because he needed to be. The teachings of Christ are a major foundation of modern morality. The notion that humans were going to evolve out of mayhem without the threat of punishment is just stupid modern thinking....IQs have dropped since 1975, along with common sense.

"IQs have dropped since 1975 . . ."
Let me take a wild guess here . . . 1975 was the year Moffie got a gold star on his forehead for integrating x squared correctly which thrilled him so much that to this day the ability to integrate something is Moffie's measure of a person's intelligence . . . and IQs all over the planet have been falling ever since that glorious day of the gold star.

How did the ancient Greeks get along without the old testament? 
The old testament was first accepted around 300 years after the death of Jesus by the newly formed Roman Christian empire- and thereafter by Muslims. Prior to this Romans were Pagans, and Hebrews/Jews were made up of various religions like Judaism. Canaan was also a popular religion of people in that area in the time, sometimes linked to people before Islam- although it is hard to tell at that time- as their does seem to be overlap of religions
So Romans only followed the teachings of the old testament sometime after the death of Jesus. The old testament is largely a story about the Jews. (e.g. Moses leading them to the promised land- and the hereditary line of descendants from David to Jesus). 
The ancient Greeks invented modern philosophy and made more contribution to modern day thought without (and before) teachings of the old testament. When Christianity was forced upon them by the Roman Catholic church, they went backwards along with the rest of the world. Roman rose to power on the basis of the ancient Greeks- before going backwards into the dark ages.
Ancient Greeks had religions but they also had atheists- and were far more open-minded. Certainly not a dogmatic monolithic religion like the Abrahamic religions.
It is a historical fact that the world went backwards in the Christian era. (Also referred to as the dark ages). The devil and witchcraft only became very popular when Protestants started to challenge the authority of the Catholic church- and this was just propaganda for heresy 
TimeLine
1. Before Christianity- Progression (Ancient Greeks & Ancient Romans)
2. Christianity becomes popular-  the world goes backwards. (Dark Ages)
3. Renaissance- the world starts to progress again by discovering records of Ancient Greeks and Romans. (Cultural Enlightenment).   Christianity splits into Protestant and Catholics. Protestants are less religious and less right wing. They question absolute truth and favour relative truth. Some become agnostic or atheist such as modern day scientists. 

---So again, the Ancient Greeks contributed more to the modern world in terms of science, philosophy, economics, politics- without Christianity. (This was BC- before Christ). So how exactly is Christianity essential to modern day morals and thought....

Good post Sharkbok.

"IQs have dropped since 1975 . . ."

Let me take a wild guess here . . . 1975 was the year Moffie got a gold star on his forehead for integrating x squared correctly which thrilled him so much that to this day the ability to integrate something is Moffie's measure of a person's intelligence . . . and IQs all over the planet have been falling ever since that glorious day of the gold star.
The IQ peak is for people born in the mid 70's. (from what I have read somewhere)

This discussion of IQs apparently falling is a good example of a stupid person reading or hearing about something, not understanding it, not thinking it through and then jumping to stupid conclusions.
I've been reading up on this and the IQ of humans is not in decline. The rate by which IQ continually increases has tapered off slightly in certain countries but there's a very logical reason for this.
The universally accepted Flynn effect is the increase in IQ every generation resulting in the need to calibrate IQ tests on a regular basis. Basically, as people get smarter, IQ tests have to be adjusted to cater for the gradual increase in intelligence so that an IQ of 100 remains the norm or the average. The bar is raised approximately 3 IQ points per decade meaning a person scoring 100 in an IQ tests in 1970 would probably only score 85 if he took an IQ test today. The reverse is also true and has been proven. People with an IQ of 100 today have taken older IQ tests and generally score 3 points higher per decade depending on how old the IQ test is.
This increase in IQ has been consistent since measuring intelligence began over a hundred years ago.
Now, a few years back research was done that showed that the Flynn effect had dropped from approx 3 points per decade to 2.1 points but only in certain German-speaking and Scandinavian countries, and in Denmark specifically, the increase was even lower and actually reversed in the specific area of spatial perception.
This is where stupid people like Moffie and Draad start getting excited but as I said earlier, there are very logical explanations which stupid people are clearly incapable of working out for themselves or reading up about. Ask yourself what the German-speaking and Scandinavian countries all have in common . . . good quality of life, highly intelligent people and very good education systems. In Denmark, there was a change in the schooling system and the apparent reversal of the Flynn effect is in line with the simultaneous decline in the proportion of students entering 3-year advanced-level school programs for 16-18 year olds. 
As for the other German-speaking and Scandinavian countries, they have always had IQs well above the global average and the relatively recent influx of non-German-speaking and non-Scandinavian migrants/refugees/immigrants to those countries has resulted in a drop in the average national IQ. I don't want to get into a debate about white Aryan people having higher IQs than people from Africa and the Middle East but the change in population in these countries reflects the same change in average national IQ. 
So people aren't getting dumber. As a species we continue to evolve both physically and mentally. As lesser educated people from poorer and less developed countries migrate in ever growing numbers to more educated and developed countries, the speed at which the average IQ of those countries increases slows slightly and will probably return to normal as those people are educated.
In summary, o nly a stupid person would think that we are getting dumber as a species.

I have two reasons for that Rooiters. Firstly, I was born in the 1970's, that would automatically make it a prime decade. I mean Duh!!! 
More seriously, you assume that evolution will automatically pass on the strongest and best genes, but with humanity that is no longer the case. Unlike other animals, we are, for the most part anyway, no longer limited by the main driving factors behind evolution. Namely food, survival, and breeding. Food is abundant for most humans, without that limitation, humans are able to reproduce and survive without nature putting any cap on it (for now anyway). The most technologically advanced humans, those that have built the best tools to assist with life and survival, are not even reproducing enough to maintain their numbers. The least technologically advanced, and probably those with the lowest average IQ, are breeding unabated. Simply put, the genes of the stupid are being passed on to the next generation at a much higher rate than those of the advanced. In even simpler terms, the stupid are out fucking the clever. In even more simpler terms, MTV, Keeping up with the Kardashians, Rap music, ANC staying in power, Donald Trump (I added that just for you), White monopoly capital etc etc etc. Nature may eventually step in and correct the trend, but right now, us getting dumber, from a purely evolutionary point of view, is certainly plausible.    

The rapidly growing third world population could skew the numbers. The average IQ is around 100%, but in Africa it is something like 70%. However, there is no doubt people are getting smarter- apart from the social/economic hardship places.

Bottom line is you don't need intelligence to survive anymore Rooiters. It used to be an advantage, but if anything, it is a breeding disadvantage today. The Intelligent, in general, would consider the consequences of breeding, the stupid, in general, would not not.  

(CNN)IQ scores have been steadily falling for the past few decades, and environmental factors are to blame, a new study says. The research suggests that genes aren't what's driving the decline in IQ scores, according to the study, published Monday. Norwegian researchers analyzed the IQ scores of Norwegian men born between 1962 and 1991 and found that scores increased by almost 3 percentage points each decade for those born between 1962 to 1975 -- but then saw a steady decline among those born after 1975. Content by PurePoint® Financial Lessons In Gold Hannah Kearney has been in love with mountains ever since she first strapped on a pair of skis as a young girl, but her gold medal journey almost never happened. Similar studies in Denmark, Britain, France, the Netherlands, Finland and Estonia have demonstrated a similar downward trend in IQ scores, said Ole Rogeberg, a senior research fellow at the Ragnar Frisch Center for Economic Research in Norway and co-author of the new study. Fluoride exposure in utero linked to lower IQ in kids, study says Fluoride exposure in utero linked to lower IQ in kids, study says "The causes in IQ increases over time and now the decline is due to environmental factors," said Rogeburg, who believes the change is not due to genetics. "It's not that dumb people are having more kids than smart people, to put it crudely. It's something to do with the environment, because we're seeing the same differences within families," he said. These environmental factors could include changes in the education system and media environment, nutrition, reading less and being online more, Rogeberg said. The earlier rise in IQ scores follows the "Flynn effect," a term for the long-term increase in intelligence levels that occurred during the 20th century, arguably the result of better access to education, according to Stuart Ritchie, a postdoctoral fellow in cognitive ageing at the University of Edinburgh whose research explores IQ scores and intelligence and who was not involved in the new study. An intelligence or IQ test. An intelligence or IQ test. Researchers have long preferred to use genes to explain variations in intelligence over environmental factors. However, the new study turns this thinking on its head. Intelligence is heritable, and for a long time, researchers assumed that people with high IQ scores would have kids who also scored above average. Moreover, it was thought that people with lower scores would have more kids than people with high IQ scores, which would contribute to a decline in IQ scores over time and a "dumbing down" of the general population, according to Rogeberg. Anyone who has seen the film "Idiocracy" might already be familiar with these ideas. In the scientific community, the idea of unintelligent parents having more kids and dumbing-down the population is known as the dysgenic fertility theory, according to Ritchie. Can you improve your emotional intelligence? Can you improve your emotional intelligence? The study looked at the IQ scores of brothers who were born in different years. Researchers found that, instead of being similar as suggested by a genetic explanation, IQ scores often differed significantly between the siblings. "The main exciting finding isn't that there was a decline in IQ," Ritchie said. "The interesting thing about this paper is that they were able to show a difference in IQ scores within the same families." The study not only showed IQ variance between children the same parents, but because the authors had the IQ scores of various parents, it demonstrated that parents with higher IQs tended to have more kids, ruling out the dysgenic fertility theory as a driver of falling IQ scores and highlighting the role of environmental factors instead. What specific environmental factors cause changes in intelligence remains relatively unexplored.

(CNN)IQ scores have been steadily falling for the past few decades, and environmental factors are to blame, a new study says. The research suggests that genes aren't what's driving the decline in IQ scores, according to the study, published Monday. Norwegian researchers analyzed the IQ scores of Norwegian men born between 1962 and 1991 and found that scores increased by almost 3 percentage points each decade for those born between 1962 to 1975 -- but then saw a steady decline among those born after 1975. Content by PurePoint® Financial Lessons In Gold Hannah Kearney has been in love with mountains ever since she first strapped on a pair of skis as a young girl, but her gold medal journey almost never happened. Similar studies in Denmark, Britain, France, the Netherlands, Finland and Estonia have demonstrated a similar downward trend in IQ scores, said Ole Rogeberg, a senior research fellow at the Ragnar Frisch Center for Economic Research in Norway and co-author of the new study. Fluoride exposure in utero linked to lower IQ in kids, study says Fluoride exposure in utero linked to lower IQ in kids, study says "The causes in IQ increases over time and now the decline is due to environmental factors," said Rogeburg, who believes the change is not due to genetics. "It's not that dumb people are having more kids than smart people, to put it crudely. It's something to do with the environment, because we're seeing the same differences within families," he said. These environmental factors could include changes in the education system and media environment, nutrition, reading less and being online more, Rogeberg said. The earlier rise in IQ scores follows the "Flynn effect," a term for the long-term increase in intelligence levels that occurred during the 20th century, arguably the result of better access to education, according to Stuart Ritchie, a postdoctoral fellow in cognitive ageing at the University of Edinburgh whose research explores IQ scores and intelligence and who was not involved in the new study. An intelligence or IQ test. An intelligence or IQ test. Researchers have long preferred to use genes to explain variations in intelligence over environmental factors. However, the new study turns this thinking on its head. Intelligence is heritable, and for a long time, researchers assumed that people with high IQ scores would have kids who also scored above average. Moreover, it was thought that people with lower scores would have more kids than people with high IQ scores, which would contribute to a decline in IQ scores over time and a "dumbing down" of the general population, according to Rogeberg. Anyone who has seen the film "Idiocracy" might already be familiar with these ideas. In the scientific community, the idea of unintelligent parents having more kids and dumbing-down the population is known as the dysgenic fertility theory, according to Ritchie. Can you improve your emotional intelligence? Can you improve your emotional intelligence? The study looked at the IQ scores of brothers who were born in different years. Researchers found that, instead of being similar as suggested by a genetic explanation, IQ scores often differed significantly between the siblings. "The main exciting finding isn't that there was a decline in IQ," Ritchie said. "The interesting thing about this paper is that they were able to show a difference in IQ scores within the same families." The study not only showed IQ variance between children the same parents, but because the authors had the IQ scores of various parents, it demonstrated that parents with higher IQs tended to have more kids, ruling out the dysgenic fertility theory as a driver of falling IQ scores and highlighting the role of environmental factors instead. What specific environmental factors cause changes in intelligence remains relatively unexplored.

Schplott Koos.....once again you are out of date. As for your point Shark.....the reason the Ancient Greeks did without the God of the Old Testament.....is because they had: Achelous The patron god of the “silver-swirling” Achelous River. Aeolus Greek god of the winds and air Aether Primordial god of the upper air, light, the atmosphere, space and heaven. Alastor God of family feuds and avenger of evil deeds. APOLLO Olympian god of music, poetry, art, oracles, archery, plague, medicine, sun, light and knowledge. ARES God of war. Represented the physical, violent and untamed aspect of war. Aristaeus Minor patron god of animal husbandry, bee-keeping, and fruit trees. Son of Apollo. Asclepius God of medicine, health, healing, rejuvenation and physicians. ATLAS The Primordial Titan of Astronomy. Condemned by Zeus to carry the world on his back after the Titans lost the war. Attis A minor god of vegetation, fruits of the earth and rebirth. Boreas A wind god (Anemoi) and Greek god of the cold north wind and the bringer of winter. Referred to as “The North Wind”. Caerus Minor god of opportunity, luck and favorable moments. CASTOR One of the twins, Castor and Pollux, known as Dioskouri. Zeus transformed them into the constellation Gemini Cerus The large and powerful wild bull tamed by Persephone and turned into the Taurus constellation. CHAOS The nothingness that all else sprung from. A god who filled the gap between Heaven and Earth and created the first beings Gaia, Tartarus, Uranus, Nyx and Erebos. Charon The Ferryman of Hades. Took the newly dead people across the rivers Styx and Acheron to the Greek underworld if they paid him three obolus (a Greek silver coin). CRONOS The god of time. Not to be confused with Cronus, the Titan father of Zeus. Crios The Titan god of the heavenly constellations and the measure of the year.. CRONUS God of agriculture, leader and the youngest of the first generation of Titans and father of the Titans. Not to be confused with Cronos, god of time. Dinlas Guardian god of the ancient city Lamark, where wounded heroes could find comfort and heal after battle. He was the son of Aphrodite. DEIMOS Deimos is the personification of dread and terror. DIONYSUS An Olympian god of the grape harvest, winemaking and wine, of ritual madness, religious ecstasy and theatre. Erebus Primordial god of darkness. EROS God of sexual desire, attraction, love and procreation. Eurus One of the wind god known as Anemoi and god of the unlucky east wind. Referred to as “The East Wind”. Glaucus A fisherman who became immortal upon eating a magical herb, an Argonaut who may have built and piloted the Argo, and became a god of the sea. HADES God of the Dead and Riches and King of the Underworld. HELIOS God of the Sun and also known as Sol. HEPHAESTUS God of fire, metalworking, stone masonry, forges and the art of sculpture. Created weapons for the gods and married to Aphrodite. HERACLES The greatest of the Greek heroes, he became god of heroes, sports, athletes, health, agriculture, fertility, trade, oracles and divine protector of mankind. Known as the strongest man on Earth. HERMES God of trade, thieves, travelers, sports, athletes, and border crossings, guide to the Underworld and messenger of the gods. Hesperus The Evening Star – the planet VENUS in the evening. Hymenaios God of marriage ceremonies, inspiring feasts and song. HYPNOS The Greek god of sleep. Kratos God of strength and power. MOMUS God of satire, mockery, censure, writers and poets and a spirit of evil-spirited blame and unfair criticism. MORPHEUS God of dreams and sleep – has the ability to take any human form and appear in dreams. Nereus The Titan god of the sea before Poseidon and father of the Nereids (nymphs of the sea). Notus Another Anemoi (wind god) and Greek god of the south wind. Known as “The South Wind”. OCEANUS Titan god of the ocean. Believed to be the personification of the World Ocean, an enormous river encircling the world. ONEIROI Black-winged daimons that personified dreams. PAEAN The physician of the Olympian gods. Pallas The Titan god of warcraft and of the springtime campaign season. PAN God of nature, the wild, shepherds, flocks, goats, mountain wilds, and is often associated with sexuality. Also a satyr (half man, half-goat). Phosphorus The Morning Star – THE PLANET VENUS as it appears in the morning. PLUTUS The Greek god of wealth. Pollux Twin brother of Castor, together known as the Dioskouri, that were transformed into the constellation Gemini. Pontus ancient, pre-Olympian sea-god of the deep sea, one of the Greek primordial deities and son of Gaia. POSEIDON Olympian Greek god of the sea, earthquakes, storms, and horses. Priapus Minor rustic fertility god, protector of flocks, fruit plants, bees and gardens and known for having an enormous penis. Pricus The immortal father of sea-goats, made into the Capricorn constellation. Pricus The immortal father of sea-goats, made into the Capricorn constellation. PROMETHEUS Titan god of forethought and crafty counsel who was given the task of moulding mankind out of clay. PRIMORDIAL A group of gods that came before all else. Tartarus The god of the deep abyss, a great pit in the depths of the underworld, and father of Typhon. THANATOS A minor god and the god of death. TRITON Messenger of the sea and the son of Poseidon and Amphitrite. TYPHON The deadliest MONSTER in Greek mythology and “Father of All Monsters”. Last son of Gaia, fathered by Tartarus and god of monsters, storms, and volcanoes. He challenged Zeus for control of Mount Olympus. URANUS Primordial god of the sky and heavens, and father of the Titans. ZELUS The god of dedication, emulation, eager rivalry, envy, jealousy, and zeal. Zephyrus A wind god (Anemoi). God of the west wind and known as “The West Wind”. ZEUS God of the sky, lightning, thunder, law, order, justice, King of the Gods and the “Father of Gods and men”. ........... And every one of these Gods was in their lives moment by moment......if they took a boat out of the harbour their first concern was whether they were okay with Poseidon. They were controlled by fear of the Gods. Didn't you know that? Your take on the Ancient Greeks as a rational, atheistic, ancient version of Scandinavia is laughably wrong.

Good points. Add modern day middle class life style. Mom and dad needs to work, so kids go to daycare. They get parked in front of TV's too often and don't get proper stimulation. The society has gone to sh!t and kids can't play outside anymore.Add the fact that in a democracy, less educated poor people is outbreeding better educated people at a rate of knots...and gets to call the shots.
PS, that movie you mentioned obviously skewed your opinion
PPS, Rudeneck, stop calling people stupid, it says something about you.

Those Gods sound nice- and ancient Greeks invented atheism. 
Sounds like free will - the ideal area for democracy and capitalism to be born. (unlike say in Saudia Arabia with Islam- where something like democracy would never be invented). 
Cupid was also a God, although I think he was a Roman God. Eros was the Greek equivalent.
The ancient Greeks also realised the world revolved around the sun... Something the Christian Church burnt people at the stake for claiming this. 
I don't have an issue with all religion- but I do believe the Abrahamian religions took man backwards.

". . . but then saw a steady decline among those born after 1975. Content by PurePoint® Financial Lessons In Gold Hannah Kearney has been in love with mountains ever since she first strapped on a pair of skis as a young girl, but her gold medal journey almost never happened. Similar studies . . ."
"Fluoride exposure in utero linked to lower IQ in kids, study says Fluoride exposure in utero linked to lower IQ in kids, study says "The causes in IQ increases"
"Can you improve your emotional intelligence? Can you improve your emotional intelligence? "
LMAO! The feeble-minded old dolt who is opining on intelligence hasn't even got the basic intelligence to do a simple copy and paste . . . and he went and posted his unintelligible garbage twice!
Waaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahaha!

I hope you read it twice Koos, because you clearly knew nothing about it.

Draad, what on earth makes you think that I think evolution is perfectly linear?
I know you're a bit dim but it's not a rhetorical question, I'd really like to know how you arrived at that bizarre conclusion.
Are you suggesting that I don't know about thngs like the Cambrian explosion or various mass extinction events?
Huh?

"Well the dinosaurs got wiped out because the could not adapt fast enough"
Okay, that statement tells me everything I need to know about your knowledge of evolution. Thanks. I think you and I are done here.

Draad, evolution happens over a very long period of time. The dinosaurs, except the small avian predecessors, went extinct due to an asteroid hitting the earth making survival of large bodied animals basically impossible. With the dwindling resources due to the asteroid's impact, only the smaller creatures and insects were able to survive. There was simply not enough time for any large creatures to evolve and by extension "adapt" to a world that changed, in terms of evolutionary time, in an instant. In other words, the speed the world changed after the asteroid strike, meant evolution could not be a factor for the survival of large creatures like dinosaurs.
    

DA, it is generally agreed that it is the most likely reason for the extinction of the dinosaurs. Even the impact site for the asteroid has been found, somewhere in the gulf of Mexico if memory serves me correctly. The word theory can be very misleading. In science the word theory basically means as close to a fact as science can determine. Einsteins general relativity "theories" are good examples of this. Just because something is referred to as theory, certainly does not mean it is just a guess, or one of a bunch of ideas swirling around. So yes, there is margin for error in the theory of the asteroid putting an end to the dinosaurs, but that it is still very highly likely to be correct.  
Anyway, something did suddenly put an end to almost all large creatures almost instantly, and even if it wasn't an asteroid, which it almost certainly was, there still obviously wasn't enough time for large creatures to evolve in order to survive. Adapting and evolving are two massively different things. 

"There never will be conclusive proof that this wiped out all species of life on earth"
No, because no-one is claiming that. Only a very stupid person would even suggest that all species on earth were wiped out and life had to start all over again. 
The asteroid or comet that caused the K-T mass-extinction event destroyed between 70 and 80% of all plant and animal species on earth. Anything within about 1000 km of the impact site would have been killed immediately by the fireball and anything within a further 10 000 km would have been killed within minutes by the shockwaves or suffered 3rd degree burns. The life forms that did survive would have had to contend with tsunamis, earthquakes and volcanoes followed by about 2 years of no sunlight and no photosynthesis due to ash, debris and dust as well as rapid changes in global temperatures . . . so anyone saying that the dinosaurs died because "they could not adapt fast enough" is a blithering idiot who is best ignored . . . almost as stupid as the fool who thinks all life was wiped out and had to start all over again.