Free the Leopards...

No, I'll try your strategy . . .

See? I win!

A long and sulky silence ensues . . .

Harsher sanctions and forcing the oil price down to less than $40 will reduce Russia's spending money significantly...let the Yanks produce oil and open the Keystone pipeline...current American Energy Policy more than doubled the oil price (tripled at some stage), giving the Russians cash to burn...while doing absolutely nothing for oil consumption...only hiked the price...but saving political face is more important than saving Ukrainian...and Russian lives.

The assassination of Putin will be seen as an act of war an could easily trigger a nuclear response...throttle the buggers economically...it looks like the West is quite content with bleeding Russia dry with this proxy war...and in the long run it would probably be better than a direct confrontation between Ruskie and NATO...I really hope there is proper though behind the strategy...Russia and China & N Korea by extention nead to be dealt with sooner than later...maybe this is the long term goal.

ButtPlug, let's just recap here. You started off on this thread telling us this:

"Few things on this board disgust me as much as seeing how you guys have responded to this war. Sad, disgusting and actually terrifying."

For starters, you could have prevented a lot of misunderstanding and confusion at that point if you'd told us that by "you guys" you mean those of us who think this war is Putin's fault . . . but we know you're not exactly the best at articulating your thoughts and you've never been particularly considerate of others . . . so, moving on . . . we're at least clear that we disgust you.

You also made it clear that you had this very original and stunningly unique philosophy that you wanted "LESS PEOPLE DYING". You even put it in UPPER CASE so we all knew that you felt quite strongly about this while assuming a VERY HIGH moral ground.

Okay, so it turns out that what disgusts you so much is because "better diplomacy could have avoided this war…and the subsequent energy crisis.". Your words, right?

better diplomacy could have avoided this war.

Okay, so then you were asked how the diplomacy could have been improved. When you were asked that perfectly valid and relevant question, you replied that it was because you weren't Stav's dancing monkey and you've managed to dodge the question by being (incredibly) even more childish and petulant since then.

That is a fair summary of the "discussion" so far. Now, if you maintain that "better diplomacy could have avoiided the war", do you not also think it reasonable to back that up with some actual examples of "better diplomacy"? Even one tiny example? 

Do you think we're being unreasonable and mean by asking you to expand on your solution that would have avoided this war? You could even support your new and patented dreaam of LESS PEOPLE DYING if you actually provided your solution. Why wouldn't you solve this global problem for mankind so that it never happens again in the future? Teach us. Share your wisdom.

Well at least DbDraad gave an answer.

Harsher sanctions and forcing the oil price down to less than $40 will reduce Russia's spending money significantly

Harsher how?

The reason the price cap is at $60 dollars is that they want Russia to be able to make a small profit on the oil. If the price is reduced to the point where Russia merely breaks even of losses money on oil production then the Russia's would quite understandably stop providing oil and if there is no Russian oil on the market a shortage will be created and the price of oil will sky rocket again.

..current American Energy Policy more than doubled the oil price (tripled at some stage), giving the Russians cash to burn...giving the Russians cash to burn...while doing absolutely nothing for oil consumption...only hiked the price...but saving political face is more important than saving Ukrainian...and Russian lives.

What was the West supposed to do here. Cut all purchases of Russian energy immediately. That wouldn't have stopped the initial invasion of Ukraine. It would definitely hurt the Russian economy more than its been hurt so far and made it more difficult to sustain Russia's war effort. Would it have caused the Russians to have stopped by now, possibly but no one could say for certain. At the same time Europe would have gone into economic meltdown and the price of oil would of risen even further than it actually did.

The other option would of been the west to carry on purchasing Russian energy as they did so before the Russian war and that was never an option.

.throttle the buggers economically...it looks like the West is quite content with bleeding Russia dry with this proxy war

That's what the west is doing but its trying to do so in the way that doesn't kill their own economies in the process.

I really hope there is proper though behind the strategy...Russia and China & N Korea by extention nead to be dealt with sooner than later...maybe this is the long term goal.

My guess the thinking behind western strategy is lets see if we can find a way for Ukraine to win that doesn't kill the wests economy and doesn't escalate to nuclear war between the West and Russia.

China doesn't have the internal energy or food resources that Russia has. If the economic sanctions the West has applied  to Russia where applied to China, the damage done to China's economy would be far greater .

North Korea while absolutely a problem, aren't in the same league as China or Russia as they don't have the ability to kick start a nuclear war that could destroy all human life on the planet.

US to send Abrahams Tank

Of course, it's Putin's fault. But that's where you stop thinking. And it's that failure to go any further, seemingly out of tribalism, virtue signaling, and laziness more than anything else, that I find both disgusting and terrifying.

Somebody asked me earlier today whether I thought people learn from history and if not then why not? I could have cited this very example in my answer. 

History, and the present day, is littered with intellectually lazy people that simply want to be told who the bad guy is. Hell, just in your lifetime, how many times have you been told who the bad guy was, only to later discover that there was a lot more to the story? Often times the truth and the motives involved were never mentioned by the ones that initially so accurately pointed out the baddie to you. And when, if ever, you find this out, it's normally so long after the fact that there's hardly anybody to hold accountable anymore...and there's likely a new baddie in town anyway, so who cares?

We don't learn from history. We simply want a cops and robbers story with the baddies getting blasted at the end. But a lot of people die every time that cycle repeats...and it repeats over and over and over. 

You could argue that history repeats because the world is full of crazy dictators and that would be correct. But it's only half the answer. There are always going to be crazies. And to take the attitude that crazies will be crazies and we should simply deal with the fallout when and where the craziness spills over, is stupid. 

There's always more to the story. And in this case, the "more to the story" is that Putin, crazy or not, spent a very long time warning that he didn't like the air defense systems in Eastern Europe and that the eastward expansion of Nato was crossing lines. Sure, that could all have been a smokescreen to create a pretext for invasions...but it is what he was saying, and nobody really paid too much attention. Now, whether or not you feel that sovereign nations should be allowed to take stances that aggravate their neighbors, is entirely up to you. 

For me, when that aggravated neighbor is a nuclear power, and were you not arrogant and living in Lala land, you'd likely pay great attention to their grievances, whether they're legitimate, a smokescreen or something else, it doesn't matter...because you are ultimately dealing with total destruction. You simply have to take the guy seriously, whatever he's up to.

A madman with an arsenal of nukes, is very very rare and requires rather special attention. It doesn't matter what you think of him, how morally superior you are to him, how insane and offensive his demands are or how special you feel for calling him evil in front of your friends...because he can end you. Do I need to say it again...HE CAN END YOU.

Perhaps, now is a good time to pause. Think about nuclear war for a moment. 

Now consider how, by your own admission, Putin is fucking nuts.

Nukes + Nuts = ?????

It's that simple and it's a very weird kind of arrogance that wants to draw the line at "He's crazy and evil." It is arrogant, disgusting and weird that you admit the guy is crazy, while we all know he has a fuck ton of nukes...yet you're happy to let the chips fall where they will. 

Tell me, if Putin does start nuking places, would you then reassess and ask whether things could have been handled in a better way? Of course, and so will everybody else. But it will be too late and it will be because you, and many like you simply stopped at "He's crazy." And you stopped there because you failed to learn from history and realize that most wars were avoidable.

Putin needed to be handled. The West, with all its think tanks, and ever-softer and more corrupt politicians, both failed to handle him and managed to piss him off at the same time. It's easy, and as I said, intellectually lazy, to call it a day at Putin is a madman. 

In terms of handling Putin, there are ample carrots that could have been dangled, but I'd have started with showing Russia respect that approaches the respect other nuclear powers receive and probably not egg on his neighbors into antagonistic situations when they really wouldn't be able to defend themselves were he to retaliate. 

But yes, Roois's wonderful strategy is to go and assassinate Putin. That statement alone tells me that all of this is entirely lost on him. Great, sneak in at night and cap the leader of nuclear power. I'm sure that's gonna end well. LOL

Anyway, it's too late for sanctions and most other remedies at this point because come May, shit is gonna go down and a great many people are going to die. 

All because Putin is an evil fucker and apparently most people appear happy to draw the line there.

Also, I'm going to guess that your next lazy move is going to be..."but if we keep giving him his way then where will it end?" Am I right? Is that what you were thinking? It is, isn't it?

the atrocity that he has since created, by completely destroying a country,

That right there is the problem. Were Ukraine and Russia at the point of war when Yanukovych was in office, before NATO tried to murder him? You can disagree with Putin doing what he has done, but the irrefutable fact is that he did not start this, it has taken around 8 years before he made the move after diplomacy with the West and Ukraine failed. The West, the USA and their Western Euro lapdogs, are to blame. I can scarcely think of anything that does not have warmongering Washington at its source. It's long overdue that the USA reaps the bloodshed it has sown for too long. The police of the planet? You have got to be kidding. The USA is not a nation, it's a plague. 

Plum, stop mixing opioids with your herb. 

'Card .................. sadly, skoon verlore.

ButtPlug writes almost a page of diatribe but says almost nothing. 

"You should have respected Putin more".. Butt How ButtPlug

The Deus Deluded Doos, well he lives in a fantasy land of smoke and mirrors. A lost puppy...

ButtPlug writes almost a page of diatribe but says almost nothing. 

Story of his life.

An appeased ButtPlug was all Putin needed

'Show respect' .............   for a war criminal psycho who arbitrarily invades a sovereign state causing mayhem, death & destruction ?? Its evident he wants Ukraine & one with the fewest number of Ukrainians .

Ja Stav, its sad to see the support on this MB for the evil rat-Putin ........ I'm obviously naive in thinking, like WW2, the choice between the good guys & the bad would be so easy

"The reason the price cap is at $60 dollars is that they want Russia to be able to make a small profit on the oil. If the price is reduced to the point where Russia merely breaks even of losses money on oil production then the Russia's would quite understandably stop providing oil and if there is no Russian oil on the market a shortage will be created and the price of oil will sky rocket again."

$60 is too high...they didn't stop production when it was less than $50...even $40.

"........... I'm obviously naive in thinking, like WW2, the choice between the good guys & the bad would be so easy."

WW2 the bad guys thought they were the good guys...

Well, in related news, Joe Biden just boasted about all the armament they're sending over there, "all to counter Ukraine's brutal aggression", according to the Puppe....er, President of the US.

"Putin needed to be handled"

Is that it? Is that the great diplomatic strategy that everyone missed? The entire war could have been avoided if someone in the West had simply "handled" Putin a bit better . . . by showing him more respect?

LMAO!

Like I said earlier, a naive and very childlike view of the world.

And the weak German coalition will fall as a result of the Greens being pro-war and the Chancellor succumbed to their threats forcing him into a decision that would cost him dearly.    

Oh look, it's ButtPlug the dancing monkey!

Dance for us ButtPlug, there could be a banana in it for you!

LMAO!

So predictable!

ButtPlug at his best. 
------------------

It is simple ButtPlug, all countries must have a responsibility to have a maximum term for a president/leader.  (e.g. 8-12 years).
Otherwise, the world ends up with Despotic Putins.

It was Russia's responsibility to ensure that someone does not appoint themselves for life, as is the case in China. No one can maintain power for too long, hence the saying absolute power corrupts. 
Even a good leader would eventually succumb and become a dictator.
There is no negotiating with these people, they are just not in touch with reality.

Snark... You can't impose your values on others, you can only prevent them from doing it to you or someone else.

@Draad,
What?

ButtPlug is a dancing monkey?
Or that countries should have maximum presidential terms?

"@Draad,

Rudehole...Putin invaded the Crimea under Obama’s watch...didn't do sh!t when Trump was POTUS...and invaded Ukraine as soon as Trump was gone...under Trump, most wars just phased out...Syria, Libya...Iraq,  Afghanistan...lots of wars just feathered away...as soon as he's gone, the biggest war in Europe since WWII...ignore the facts all you like, but this happened under your man Biden's watch...yes, I know you don't like him much, but you preferred him to Orange Man...and fuel and electricity is going through the roof...nice...the world is a way k@kker place since the Donald isn't around no more...coincidental?...I think not.

So Putin hadn’t thought of invading the Ukraine…..then pondered it for 4 years while Trump was President. Then 2 years after Biden took office with all kinds of verbal recommitments to NATO, he invades. And now it’s Trump’s fault.

Blackboyo that is almost as stupid as your suggestion that we should assassinate Putin. But nope, trying to  assassinate the guy who controls the nuclear button in Russia has to be the silliest idea on this subject.

Let’s suppose your chances of success are 90%. That means your chances of starting a nuclear war and destroying mankind are probably 10%.

I can see why you ended up selling second rate software as a profession.

No one can predict what was on Putin's mind in say 2018.

However, he clearly supported Trump in the elections, so perhaps he wanted Trump to leave NATO. Maybe he thought Trump would leave NATO in his 2nd term. When Trump lost, perhaps he reverted to Plan B. 

It is hard to argue that Putin is not a despotic dictator that has no qualms about invading countries to increase the size of Russia. NATO may have been the only reason he was held in check.
Putin wants to replace the USSR with a united Russia and go down in history. 

So do you actually agree with Blackboyo’s assassination prescription?