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The Hypocisy of the worlds Christmas...the true meaning

Started by generaltit236 REPLIES2,239 VIEWS· 24 Dec 2014, 19:13
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GE
generaltit
Pro3,164 posts
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
24 Dec 2014, 19:13
#1
24 Dec 2014, 19:13#1

People who don't believe in the birth of a necessary saviour or the need to be redeemed or the birth of a man that was sent as a redeemer still celebrate a pagan ritual of Christmas. I celebrate it every day because He came into the world to save sinners as me...the worse and completely lost...I cannot bargain with God with my measely pittances of so-called good deeds when I know deep inmy heart my devious, manipulating , false efforts....no one can get through...we all fall short...there is none righteous, we have all fallen short of God's standards...you cannot save yourself on the scoreboard...if you get 50% or 75% or even 99% you won't get to heaven only 100% but that's impossible...God is perfect and holy only 100% will do that's why a Son was given


Listen to this

http://youtu.be/MS3vpAWW2Zc


DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
25 Dec 2014, 00:16
#2
25 Dec 2014, 00:16#2
 Seb, to those who don't believe, no proof will be found, to those who does, no proof is required. Sad fact.
OV
OvalBalls
Rookie95 posts
OV
OvalBallsRookie95 posts
25 Dec 2014, 00:41
#3
25 Dec 2014, 00:41#3
@Draaitjie
You are horribly misled. Atheists are not obsessed with proof that god does not exist. I certainly don't require nor seek evidence so don't be sad for me. It is not the burden of the non-believer to prove the existence of god. This is a common fallacy amongst believers.
By the way. The fairy family at the bottom of my garden got a unicorn for christmas. I don't care if you don't believe me, you have no evidence to disprove their existence.
WA
Wardad
Pro6,663 posts
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
25 Dec 2014, 10:18
#4
25 Dec 2014, 10:18#4
 Theists have no monopoly on kindness or decency and us secular types are as likely as any other types to sit on clouds playing harps and being bored if thats how it pans out .Now lets all be good peeps and look after the here and now okely dokely ?
DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
25 Dec 2014, 12:38
#5
25 Dec 2014, 12:38#5
 Oh, but atheist are obsessed. Atheism is a belief system just like any other religion and are constantly trying to ridicule especially christianity. They gobble up supposed scientific bs, if it suits their agenda, but demands the strongest scientific proof of anything that does not.Now if you told me you were agnostic, you would have had some credibility on this issue, but atheism is just stupid.
WA
Wardad
Pro6,663 posts
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
25 Dec 2014, 13:05
#6
25 Dec 2014, 13:05#6
 Like all theists you have no idea what atheism actually is .It is the absence of belief in a deity ,nothing more .Not knowing the difference is stupid and not actually reading something more so ,didnt mention atheism didnt put down or ridicule those who believe in a deity .
DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
25 Dec 2014, 13:38
#7
25 Dec 2014, 13:38#7
 I know exactly what atheism is and absense in the believe of and rejection of the idea of  a diety or dieties is still a belief. You can play with words all you like, but you take something of fact without being able to prove it. Same as theism, well almost anyway... Like I  said there is a case to made for agnostisism as a view from a scientific  or logical side, but atheism on itself takes a leap of faith, like it or not.
PS, Wardad, I was actually replying to Balz. He named atheism. You actually referred to secularism, which I don't have any problems with logic wise.
DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
25 Dec 2014, 13:49
#8
25 Dec 2014, 13:49#8
 PS Wardad, from the little what I've read from you, you are no atheist, but rather agnostic.Nice and simple explanation
I'm not as ignorant as you might expect a Christian to be and I don't believe in blind faith.
JW
Just_win
Captain18,570 posts
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
25 Dec 2014, 15:53
#9
25 Dec 2014, 15:53#9
Seb: I don't know why many Christians have to be do hard on themselves. We are made in the image of God & that is something to be proud of. We have a few flaws for sure but most strive to better themselves. For sure there are some sick bastards in the world & ironically the are not they ones berating themselves.
DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
25 Dec 2014, 16:16
#10
25 Dec 2014, 16:16#10
 Couldn't agree more JW, well said.
sharkbok
sharkbok
Captain23,286 posts
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,286 posts
25 Dec 2014, 21:15
#12
25 Dec 2014, 21:15#12
Will a Christian have more chance of getting into Heaven, than a non-christian?
If their was 2 identical twins, and one went to Church and the other did not.Which one would have more chance of going to heaven? If both have an equal chance, why then go to Church? 
Or if one was christian and the other budist. Does one faith have a better chance of getting into heaven?
Ultimately if their is an afterlife,  surely ones actions on earth are a bigger factor- in deciding the next phase of life?  (regardless of belief). 

CE
Ceradyne
Pro9,374 posts
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
25 Dec 2014, 21:40
#13
25 Dec 2014, 21:40#13
Going to church will not get you to heaven....... There is much more to it than going to church. My late father in law hardly ever set his foot in church but he was definitely a believer and he knew the meaning of being a believer. He knew the Word inside out to such an extent that he often had the minister baffled and he was not a learned man. He was a humble farmer and a boilermaker by trade. 
I learned more about life and religion from him than any church minister. He even got himself a Koran and read it so that he knew where Muslims, who he sometimes had to deal with, were coming from. He used to grow chillis at some stage and he used to sell it to Indian wholesalers. 
He never used to preach to and try to convert everybody that he came in contact with but his conduct showed what he was about. He was one of the most ruthless men when he had to dish it out but he was also one of the most kindhearted people I have ever met. He would always go out of his way to help anybody without ever expecting anything in return. 
I never had any doubt that he would end up in the right place. 
BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
25 Dec 2014, 21:49
#14
25 Dec 2014, 21:49#14

Well said Seb. I also agree that atheism is the most stupid position to hold but sso is being an agnostic as it is crystal clearer that God created everything.

Sharkbok the truth is unless you receive the pardon offered By Jesus Christ and are born again you will definitely not enter the kingdom of God.

Jesus taught very plainly that HE is the Way and the Truth and the Life and that NOBODY comes to the Father but by him. He also said very clearly unless you are born again you CANNOT enter the Kingdom of God. Without The salvation gift of Jesus, God the Son, you are lost.

Whether you like it or not, agree or not, the biblical position on how it is a man must be saved is very clear.

 

This hymn is Holy Spirit inspired and brilliantly outlines the biblical truth. Would that all would come and be saved!

Hark the herald angels sing
"Glory to the newborn King!
Peace on earth and mercy mild
God and sinners reconciled"
Joyful, all ye nations rise
Join the triumph of the skies
With the angelic host proclaim:
"Christ is born in Bethlehem"
Hark! The herald angels sing
"Glory to the newborn King!"

Christ by highest heav'n adored
Christ the everlasting Lord!
Late in time behold Him come
Offspring of a Virgin's womb
Veiled in flesh the Godhead see
Hail the incarnate Deity
Pleased as man with man to dwell
Jesus, our Emmanuel ( God with us)
Hark! The herald angels sing
"Glory to the newborn King!"

Hail the heav'n-born Prince of Peace!
Hail the Son of Righteousness!
Light and life to all He brings
Ris'n with healing in His wings
Mild He lays His glory by
Born that man no more may die
Born to raise the sons of earth
Born to give them second birth
Hark! The herald angels sing
"Glory to the newborn King!"



BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
25 Dec 2014, 22:03
#15
25 Dec 2014, 22:03#15
 
DE
Denny
Captain12,893 posts
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
26 Dec 2014, 00:51
#16
26 Dec 2014, 00:51#16
There's a time and a place for everything, I'm under the impression it's a time to celebrate, not to debate.......give it a miss...puleeeez..tx.
OV
OvalBalls
Rookie95 posts
OV
OvalBallsRookie95 posts
26 Dec 2014, 05:41
#17
26 Dec 2014, 05:41#17
@Draaitjie
Actually I was wrong to make the comment I did. Believe in whatever you like. Happy Christmas.
You are wrong about Atheists though. You see it as a leap of faith and because of your predisposition that is understandable. I absolutely do not see it as a leap of faith. Of this I can assure you. If you are willing to view both arguments objectively, read Richard Dawkins, the God delusion. 
If you are not, don't bother. I wouldn't blame you. I certainly have no interest in reading the bible again. A particularly boring, poorly written and inconsistent story without a single shred of substantive physical evidence. About the same evidence as Star Wars.
I am not trying to convert you to atheism but it might be an adventure in mentality for you to understand how scientists (real ones, not armchair 'scientists') view atheism. Actually we don't enjoy being called Atheists since we absolutely deny the justification for the existence of theists. Opposing something that does not exist is almost as ludicrously insane as believing in it. Waging war, or drafting political legislature on behalf of it is thus psychosis in my opinion. 
Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds ! ;-)
BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
26 Dec 2014, 10:08
#18
26 Dec 2014, 10:08#18
 Oval Balls you unfortunately missed a lot of material I placed on the board showing how rediculous the atheistic postion was. Richard Dawkins is a charaltan of note. Google crits on his work and you will be dismayed to realise what you have sucked up . Even atheits have been embarassed by his sloppy science and contradictions. For starter to wet your appetite watch this clip

DE
Denny
Captain12,893 posts
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
26 Dec 2014, 10:10
#19
26 Dec 2014, 10:10#19
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz  
DE
Denny
Captain12,893 posts
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
26 Dec 2014, 10:10
#20
26 Dec 2014, 10:10#20
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz  
BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
26 Dec 2014, 11:24
#21
26 Dec 2014, 11:24#21
 No need to prove you are spiritually fast asleep in arms of the delusion that is mother nature. Wake up Denny!!! I trust you do not believe that nothing created the universe. Bwahhahahahahahahaha that has to be the most stupid position ever taken.Watch the clip.
DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
26 Dec 2014, 12:15
#22
26 Dec 2014, 12:15#22
 Balz, Dawkins is a evolutional bEinstein's take on things.iologist specialising in gene research etc. Physicists normally have a more balanced view. Newton, Tesla, Edisson and Einstein were all Deists at least. Although Dawkins would like to believe that "The God Delusion " is a work of science, the work is full of scientific half truths and flaws in logic. It has become the bible of the modern atheist. The motive for writing it was atheist and not scientific.
BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
26 Dec 2014, 21:14
#23
26 Dec 2014, 21:14#23
The big joke Draad is the halfwit expresses horror and makes moral judgments but doesnt believe in morality as there is no morals, no meaning, no purpose  etc etc in the random universe.How the guy can make such logical blunders is amazing. 
OV
OvalBalls
Rookie95 posts
OV
OvalBallsRookie95 posts
26 Dec 2014, 22:17
#24
26 Dec 2014, 22:17#24
There really is no point in furthering this argument. You are all entitled to your opinions and belief.
I am not suggesting that all scientific theory coming from Dawkins is irrefutable. If you read my message again, I said that I felt he gives a good account of the positions of 'atheists' in the true sense of the word. His scientific theories are something different.
I was responding to Draaitjie's position that atheism in itself is a leap of faith. This may be the case with some people who like to call themselves Atheists and then beanstew, I even agree with your opinion on atheism.
This however is not the case with me. I am fortunate enough to have sufficient knowledge from my perspective to refute the existence of any supernatural deity absolutely. I assure you, there is no 'faith' involved with that decision. I am a true atheist and I feel that this is my right and should be respected.
Of course if y ou have been pre-programmed to religious doctrine since you were young, this will understandably be a difficult position for you to understand. No problem. Continue believing whatever you like BUT never do yourself the injustice of not seeking answers to the questions of your heart. Don't be imprisoned by the fear and guilt used by modern organised religion to package those questions in a small box on a dark shelf in the 'naughty room'. To keep you going to Church to advance the bank accounts of some very rich evangelists. Be religious, no problem but also BE FREE !
OK guys ? That is my last on this topic :-) 
sharkbok
sharkbok
Captain23,286 posts
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,286 posts
26 Dec 2014, 22:44
#25
26 Dec 2014, 22:44#25
 Beeno1
 
Status: Hall Of Fame 
Posts: 13537RE: The Hypocisy of the worlds Christmas...the true meaning
December 25, 2014, 21:49:18


Sharkbok the truth is unless you receive the pardon offered By Jesus Christ and are born again you will definitely not enter the kingdom of God.


What a load of crap BeenoTheir is hundreds of religions in the world if not thousands since the beginning of time.
Many of these religions do not worship Jesus and do not have require their believers to be born again. 
Are you saying that none of these people are going to Heaven? Sounds like an Apartheid Heaven that is only for Christians with their own beliefs.
This is the one of the reasons that I do not align with any religion. They all claim to be right and therefore others must be wrong. They use an absolute truth by personifying God. 
What are the chance of one religion being absolutely correct, and then hundreds of others are wrong. It is like Moses calling the Egyptians God Baal, telling other religions they are praying to a false god. The first person to criticize a religion is a person from another religion. They deem a monopoly on morality just being associated with their own religion. This is the type of mentality that has led to wars where people on either side have blindly followed to their leaders who have said that it is Gods way.
Getting into Heaven surely has nothing to due with what religion you associate yourself with. What type of God is going to create a world with hundreds of religions, but only let the believers of one go to heaven.
This is just fear mongering that has become part of religion. Make people scared about the after life, and t hen play on their guilt. It is used to be common practice to pay the Catholic Church for your sins. 


BR
Brycy
Pro4,671 posts
BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
26 Dec 2014, 22:53
#26
26 Dec 2014, 22:53#26
 ... Bean Brain I hear reincarnation is making a come back...
DE
Denny
Captain12,893 posts
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
26 Dec 2014, 23:45
#27
26 Dec 2014, 23:45#27

Beeno will have the last say, predictably quoting versus from the Bible willing everyone into a deep sleep.

sharkbok
sharkbok
Captain23,286 posts
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,286 posts
27 Dec 2014, 00:15
#28
27 Dec 2014, 00:15#28
Denny I have beat Beeno to the chase.----
Luke 10:25-37New International Version (NIV)

The Parable of the Good Samaritan

25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[a]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b]”

28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 

A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 

32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 

But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii[c] and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’

36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”

37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”

Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”


---

Beeno, read this parable. It is probably the one which makes the most sense in the Bible. Jesus talks about how to get into Heaven.
The moral of the story is that it is ones actions, not their religion that decides if they will have an after life. 
1. The Priest will not be given an afterlife with a ticket into Heaven. (so just being associated with a religion and being born again is not enough......)People are judged by their actions in real life, just being a Christian is not enough. 

2. The Levite is not going to heaven either. (a levite is a Hebrew, a decendent of Moses). 
DE
Denny
Captain12,893 posts
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
27 Dec 2014, 00:49
#29
27 Dec 2014, 00:49#29

Mate, for what it's worth I'm glad you got that off your chest...I don't have the time  nor the inclination to read it.



I don't know how Beeno is going to make the cut to Heaven's gate if he can't even make the cut to Kamp SS... 


ps No-one beats Beeno, he loves this sort of crap, it's just another chance for him to unleash his lunatic rantings....he will have the last say....you Betcha!

CE
Ceradyne
Pro9,374 posts
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
27 Dec 2014, 11:17
#30
27 Dec 2014, 11:17#30
 Spot-on SB. Read my last post. It is not as difficult to be a Christian as many would like to believe. Most of what is expected is common sense and common decency, i.e. honesty, neighbourly love, etc. 
DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
27 Dec 2014, 13:06
#31
27 Dec 2014, 13:06#31
 Funny thing is that most people bringing science into a philosophical debate does not have sufficient  knowledge knowledge to do so. Much bigger brains than any on this forum, or any other for that matter,  have pondered over this issue for millions of years without being able to prove much.I have nothing against a good discussion on the subject, but unfortunately these things spiral to the gutter most of the time.
DE
Denny
Captain12,893 posts
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
28 Dec 2014, 00:41
#32
28 Dec 2014, 00:41#32

Wisely said by someone on this forum..."Ons weet niks"



DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
28 Dec 2014, 01:32
#33
28 Dec 2014, 01:32#33
 Well Denny, if one looks at the ammount of knowledge available out there, it's only a very few people out there that knows enough to actually have an educated opinion.  Having said that, alot can be achieved with a bit of (not so)common sense. We are all so focussed on our own beliefs that we sometimes miss the bigger picture. It's hard, but us humans will have to except that we will never know everything. We can't even figure out who and how the piramids were buildt, let alone how life started. Thing is, religion should never be used to explain away the gaps science leaves us AND science should never be used to prove a point. Science is supposed to be an objective way of looking at the world, to test and to verify things. As soon as you start to "use" science to prove a point, you defeat the ends of it, by removing the core of it, objectivity. Science is a way to understand the universe (creation...pardon my boldness), not to explain it. A good testable theory is still only a theory until it can be proven impirically...and with the origin of the universe,  that seems a bit impossible. The Higgs Boson Particle thing is a good start, but still theory only and trying to prove it in practice might result in some major trouble...but what the hell!
DE
Denny
Captain12,893 posts
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
28 Dec 2014, 03:08
#34
28 Dec 2014, 03:08#34

 "...but what the hell!"


Exactly.

DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
28 Dec 2014, 12:04
#35
28 Dec 2014, 12:04#35
 Denny, if I bore or irritate you, just ignore me, I know I'm overbearing sometime.
DE
Denny
Captain12,893 posts
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
28 Dec 2014, 13:41
#36
28 Dec 2014, 13:41#36

 Not at all.

 


There is one question I have which no-one can answer, it has troubled me for a very long t ime

but now I accept that we just don't know and we'll never know....so "but what the Hell" is as adequate a response as one can have. 


BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
28 Dec 2014, 18:45
#37
28 Dec 2014, 18:45#37
 You cannot get to heaven on the basis of your works. Huge mistake.The problem here is sin. All have sinned and the bible says clearly the soul tha tsins will die and also that all have sinned. If you could keep the law perfectly yes you would be able to enter heaven but nobody is able to keep the law of God. If you read the New Testament ths is made extrtemely clear. All have sinned. No one is righteous etc
Because we are not able to save ourselves we need a Saviour to deal with the sin issue. All this is elementary. Ne need to be reborn and reamde. We will be changed inot His likeness for we shall see Him face to face to face. Unless youare changed into the likeness of Christ you cannot enter heaven as it would then become like hell! The Christian truth is so simple a Child can understand it. You need to be reconciled to God through the finished work of His Son upon the cross. Only Jesus can save you from the consequences of your sin, He is the Way the Truth and the Life. NOBODY, comes to the Father but by him. Right now you are dead in tresspases and sin. You need to be spiritually reborn. Transalted out of the kingdom of darness into the Kingdom of His dear Son.
Listen to this song and maybe you will get it. This song has been viewed by some 

 22 million people and the singer wro te it. Enjoy.

BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
28 Dec 2014, 18:53
#38
28 Dec 2014, 18:53#38
Sharkbok the only question you need to ask yourself is are you sins, which are many, forgiven. Or will you have to pay the penalty for them yourself. For God so loved the world that the gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in him shold not perish but have everlasting life. This is made possible by Christ bearing your sins on the crosss as God MUST judge sin. 
How have you responded to the offer of forgiveness? Have you accepted Christ as Lord and Saviour.If you reject the pardon avai lable then you will bear the consequences of your sin.  

Denny what then is this question of your - possibly there is an answer.


SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
28 Dec 2014, 20:33
#39
28 Dec 2014, 20:33#39
Beenkop.........what a load of bullshit......imagine being so mentally challenged that you actually believe in all that crap. Its all so fictitious that it makes Harry Potter seem more believable........provide a single shred of material evidence that God or Jesus exists and I might take you seriously.......for the most you are making a complete fool of yourself as all bible bashers do.
Do ghosts exist - until I see one, I will never believe is some manifest existence of dead person.......same can be said of my take on Jesus......I see no point in speaking to the heavens in the name of prayer........who the hell are you talking to? For those prayers are sure as hell not being answered when a child is raped or murdered.
Beenkop are you saying that if I pray hard enough that ......that, that I have lost and yearn to be returned to me will be delivered? 
BE
becs
Pro4,378 posts
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
28 Dec 2014, 22:57
#40
28 Dec 2014, 22:57#40
 Draad....my Mother is an Atheist. She is far more knowledgable about Religions than most of those who practise a Religion, that I have come across, and has friends who practise many types of Religion. As has been discussed, all Atheism means is to deny the existence of any Deity, full stop. That is it and, as such, an Atheist is allowed to think what they want to think, as far as I am concerned.It is not akin to any form of Religion.My Mother does not meet with other Atheists, she does not contact other Atheists, have Coffee Mornings to raise funds for Atheism, door knock to spread the word of the non-believer and try to bully others to join the ranks simply to get her to leave the door step. She does not have special Atheist holidays to celebrate pertinent days in the Atheist calendar. Nor does she wear any specific clothing or jewellery, have any Icons or Tracts about the house.Nope, she simply gets on with life on a daily basis until someone who practises a Religion broaches the subject or there is a form to fill in which actively demands one enters a Religion or else it cannot be submitted, or one has to go through a Religious aspect of a Marriage or Funeral etc etc. Why is that exactly ? If one does not believe, then one should be afforded the right to choose not to and that is that. 
As for behaving in a " Christian manner ".....ummmm no. It is behaving in a decent, honest way that most of us, regardless of a belief or no, behave in or jolly well should. I'm afraid that does get my goat ! 
And Saffex, I think we would all wish for many things to be different, like you clearly do.Sadly, nothing seems to make them so....nor make this world a better, decent place. 
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