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FORUM / RUGBY /  The Hypocisy of the worlds Christmas...the true meaning

The Hypocisy of the worlds Christmas...the true meaning

Started by generaltit236 REPLIES2,239 VIEWS· 24 Dec 2014, 19:13
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BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
05 Jan 2015, 10:08
#161
05 Jan 2015, 10:08#161
I note DA you make no comment re the two Christians killed. I am not turning anybody away they are currently far from God and railling against Him. It is by the suppsoed foolishness of preAching that men are saved. Of course there is oppostion. Satan doesnt release his prey easily.
Neither do I constantly hound people. oNE PREACHES THE GOSPEL IN SEASON AND OUT OF SEASON. This was a thread about the real meaning of Christmas. Unlike the twaddle that goes on at Christmas as the heathen celebrate it etc (SANTA CLAWS ETC). I have discussed the real meaning of Christmans. Which is Jesus and Him coming to save the lost.
There is no more weightier and solemn matter to consider. There can be no confusion about what Christ came and died to win for us. Hence I do not mince my words.Eternity beckons DA and you are not saved. Dont You ever wonder why many of the finest minds have been Christain. Isnt it worth seriously exploring. Jesus rose from the dead. Because he is alive he can reveal himself to you IF you seek Him earnesly - like the pearl of great price.



BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
05 Jan 2015, 10:16
#162
05 Jan 2015, 10:16#162
My position is as follows. I was brought up as a Christian and I truly want to believe in Christianity, but I can't even begin to do so until it has been proven to me beyond any doubt. I am open minded, and look at arguments from both the believers and the non-believers.  
I have one question that no Christian has even sort of answered properly. Here it is. An 8 year old boy in a mountain village of Afghanistan falls down, hits his head and dies. He has never heard of Christianity, but is a devout Muslim. According to the bible he will go to hell for not believing in Christ as the savior. How can the Christian God be a fair God if he is prepared to create a child destined for hell with no chance of redemption? 
This same scenario can be used for an Amazon villager that has never heard of religion, the other way round from the point of view of Islam (or any religion) with a Christian child dying. Or even a person like me, who wants to believe, but simply can't lie to himself and pretend to believe. 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
05 Jan 2015, 10:17
#163
05 Jan 2015, 10:17#163
 Jw yours is a case i know well. I was at school confirmed in thr4 Anglican Church. The Bishop of matebelenad came to our School chapel and laid hands on us so that we might recive the Holy Spirit. Nothing happened. I was now a chruch meber but did not knwo Christ.JW you are messing about with religion. Religion is worthless. Religion saves nobody.
You need to seek Christ. You are as lost as sharkbok although not as vocally anti God.Take the advice I gave to poor DA.
You are an excellent fellow in human terms JW but fall far, far short and are a sinner needing to be saved.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
05 Jan 2015, 10:35
#164
05 Jan 2015, 10:35#164
 So, if these three individuals alone, ask for forgiveness just before they leave this fantastic planet, and take Jesus into their hearts, they will be allowed into heaven, provided they make the change.

 

Do whatever disgusting acts you want to while you are alive, but ask for forgiveness and let him into your heart and all is good with the world.


God knows whether repentance is genuine DA. Those you genuinely repent and come to God are are given the gift of the Holy Spirit and begin a process of change.

"The vilest offender who truly believes that moment from Jesus a pardon receives.

What  you have not grasped is that all have sinned and all have come short of the glory of God. In the eyes of a holy God we are all filthy - all of us. Nobody is worthy of Heaven NOT ONE. Some are just more unworthy than others. 


These three cases you mention simply surrendered themselves to Satan more than most. Newton was a slave trader. Look what God made of HIM. There is hope for all.

But you get those that harden their heart. Recently Christopher Hitchkins an atheistic blasphemer and terribly anti Christ lunatic died. No reason or any anything at all could stop the flow of vile profanities from this guys mouth. He slipped into a lost eternity. Doomed. I heard him on one occassions and felt sick for him. So bent and twistedby Satan.



BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
05 Jan 2015, 10:54
#165
05 Jan 2015, 10:54#165
I have one question that no Christian has even sort of answered properly. Here it is. An 8 year old boy in a mountain village of Afghanistan falls down, hits his head and dies. He has never heard of Christianity, but is a devout Muslim. According to the bible he will go to hell for not believing in Christ as the savior. How can the Christian God be a fair God if he was prepared to create a child destined for hell with no chance of redemption? 
This same scenario can be used for an Amazon villager that has never heard of religion, the other way round from the point of view of Islam (or any religion) with a Christian child dying. Or even a person like me, who wants to believe, but simply can't lie to himself and pretend to believe. 
Blikkies an honest stance. I said as much to the guy who first spoke to me anout the Lord in earnest. he gave me his testimony. I said tha ti would like to beliveve but couldnt unless Christ revealed himslef to me. I told him that if the type of things that had happend to him happened to me I could believe but not till then. I argued with him long and hard about all other religions etc etc.This guy did me a great favour - he told me Christ was alive and that if  I sought after him He could reveal himslef to me becaue Christ was alive now. When spent days and nights discussing these things and the scriptures and I was very argumentativer. It was stale mate I would not beleive unles I encountered Jesus. Stale mate until that day when it happened. So seek him Blikkies. Nothing else is more important.

The bible says men are without excuse. The creation pours forth knowledge and demonstrates to us the attributes of God and that He is there. Hence all must call upon Him. This of course is the reason Satan wants men to believe that the universe created itself out of nothing.Many people have been saved with no human agency. God will reveals himself to those who truly seek him. However men prefer the darkness to the light. In fact that is mildly put it appears.
Next when it comes to judgement God will judge correctly so we leave that in His hands where it belongs. 

 
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
05 Jan 2015, 11:07
#166
05 Jan 2015, 11:07#166
Beans, I am Bluebok not Blikkies, LOL. 
I understand what you are saying about seeking Jesus out, and I have no problem with that, but you have not answered my question.
If God is as cruel as he would have to be in the example laid out by me above, then I don't want to follow him. I have a few difficult questions like the above one, and I need them answered before I can attempt to find Jesus. I am not trying to be argumentative, but I want you to see why I (and many others) need such questions answered before I can take Jesus or God seriously ? 
 
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
05 Jan 2015, 11:07
#167
05 Jan 2015, 11:07#167

Here is the thing

 

"Neither do I constantly hound people"

 

Your previous threads and posts in the past will prove that statement to be an absolute lie.

 

Beeno, you preach to people here that you do not hound people here but tell everyone that Atheists are dumb, insane, foolish etc etc over and over and over in each post...... therefore you are a liar.

 

Beeno, you tell Becs that her mother did not follow the correct path in life, and Sharkbok, Saffex and myself are doomed to the fires of hell for all eternity.

 

You will justify this by saying that the bible says so, so you can.... ok.

 

Meanwhile back at the ranch, throughout your own life, you could be in some way instrumental in turning people away from your own religion by your constant bashing of their own individual personal thoughts and beliefs etc etc.

 

You completely lack any empathy or understanding of other beliefs or religions, you merely want to push your own agenda and beliefs towards others and call everyone else who does not subscribe to your own beliefs as fools, stupid, dumb and insane, something which I have never heard any priest or preacher do........ just saying.

 

So I have to ask a very pertinent question........... if you are deliberately turning people away and making them even more anti Christian with your constant bashing and personal insults, are you yourself not doing the devil's work for him? 

 

Because from my point of view...  you are doing a great job for Satan so far

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
05 Jan 2015, 11:26
#168
05 Jan 2015, 11:26#168
 DA that God allows evil hear on earth is a consequence of man choosing another master. As Bob Dylan sang "you gotta serve somebody it may be the devil and it maybe the Lord but you gotta serve somebody. God command is thou shalt not kill. Men break that and they will be judged. Justice will be done.
The whole creation is groaning and waiting for the Lord to return. The whole question of evil and why it is allowed is a deep question and disturbs many. I think it has a lot to do with man being able to choose. Hitler never was forced to believe all the lies he sucked up. Here is something that may help DA:

Mittelberg told The Christian Post recently that in fact, it was the issue of evil that initially led the renowned author and scholar C. S. Lewis into atheism. However, upon further reflection, Lewis began to see that if there is no God, then there is no such thing as evil either.

"Evil can only be known and measured against a standard of good. Apart from God and the morality that flows from Him there is no standard – and therefore no evil either," he explained. "But we know in our hearts – it's inescapable – that evil is real."

"For example, when we hear about someone being raped or murdered we don't just think, 'I'd prefer that people wouldn't do such things.' No, we say, 'that was wrong' – especially if the crime was against somebody we knew. But when we say such things we're betraying the fact that we know there is a higher standard – one that goes beyond people's preferences of even society's self-imposed laws," Mittelberg illustrated. "This innate knowledge of morality standards points to the existence of a Moral Lawgiver."

What initially seemed to be an argument against God turns out to be evidence for him, he stated. "When C. S. Lewis realized this, it was an important step toward his trajectory-altering decision to trust and follow Christ."

"So while Christians struggle with a very real problem of evil it is, I think, much preferable to the atheistic denial of evil (and, similarly, to the Eastern pantheistic belief that everything that happens is part of God, leading to the deification of evil.)," Mittelberg insisted. (yes Dawkins insists there is no good and no evil. Lunacy from the oak!)

The question of pain and suffering is probably a harder argument to answer, he said. "Why would God allow those?"

The question is not one Christians can give an answer to that will satisfy everyone or "make us all feel good about," Mittelberg said.

However, he outlined seven "points of light" summarized from his chapter on the issue in The Questions Christians Hope No One Will Ask.

Mittelberg writes:

First point of light: the world is as Jesus predicted
Jesus said, "In this world you will have trouble;" it's good to know that we follow a Savior who really gets it – who sees this fallen world for what it is, and who (contrary to many other religious leaders) tells us the truth about it.

Second point of light: evil was not created or caused by God
The Bible is clear: God is not the author of evil. But he did create us as real human beings with the ability to love and follow him … or not. Unfortunately we chose the "not," and brought sin and evil into the picture.

Third point of light: the cause behind most suffering is human
While it doesn't remove the pain, it can be important to remind people who are tempted to shake their fists at God for the suffering in the world that the vast majority of human pain has been inflicted directly or indirectly by other humans.

Fourth point of light: we live in a fallen world
There is also suffering due to what some call "natural evil" – pain that results from events and disasters that are not caused by humans. The Bible shows, however, that these are the result of the curse we live under due to human sin – see Genesis 3 and Romans 8.

Fifth point of light: God will finally judge evil
Some people criticize God (or those who believe in him), saying, "A good God would eradicate evil." My question for those folks is, "Okay, are you ready to be eradicated, since you – like me – are to some degree evil?" Seriously, I'm glad that, although God will judge and wipe out evil, he's chosen not to yet, out of patience for us and for our friends (2 Pet. 3:9).

Sixth point of light: God suffered too
It's easy to forget that the Holy God of the universe chose, out of love, to humble himself, become one of us, and ultimately to suffer in ways none of us every will (or ever could imagine) in order to purchase our redemption (Phil. 2). As a result, he can not only forgive our sins and freely give us salvation, but also sympathize with all we're going through (Heb. 4:14-16).

Seventh point of light: God can bring good out of bad
Though this truth is often bantered about in ways that are insensitive to the person who is suffering, it is still true that while bad things happen to God's people, he promises that he'll bring good – sooner or later – out of everything we experience (Rom. 8:28).

The other goods thing is that God will rescue HIs perople and deliver them from all evil. Heaven is our home.

However oaks evil will persist in hell so make a wise choice.




DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
05 Jan 2015, 11:43
#169
05 Jan 2015, 11:43#169

Another long and boring copy and paste from another source 

 

You would do well to actually provide some of your own in depth thoughts without insulting others or belittling what they believe, but no.

 

As I said... you are doing a great job in trying to inform others as to your more superior religion. 

 

Clearly you have managed to make an impact on what they currently believe.

 

 

 

 

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
05 Jan 2015, 12:02
#170
05 Jan 2015, 12:02#170
 I see ou denny who has no interest in these matters is still here.  Hahahahhahahahahahahaha
If you two ever read your bible  - you and ou sharkbok who is blinder than most here if that were possible - you would find members of every tribe etc in heaven. Jesus said preach the gospel unto all nations. The big mistake oaks make is to look at people and draw conclusions about God. Read the bible and you will find out the truth. In Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile. Ie no racial distinctions. 

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
05 Jan 2015, 12:14
#171
05 Jan 2015, 12:14#171

Ok Beeno

 

This from the Bible

 

Who adheres to this in today's times?.

 

Is it only because we got more modern with our laws or because we don't have any true Christians left in the world?

 

 

Exodus 35:2

For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a day of sabbath rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it is to be put to death

 

 

Deuteronomy 21:18-21

If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.” Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.

 

 

Colossians 3:22-24

Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to curry their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord. Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving.

 

 

Peter 2:18-25

 

If a man takes a wife and, after sleeping with her, dislikes her and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, “I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity,” then the young woman’s father and mother shall bring to the town elders at the gate proof that she was a virgin. Her father will say to the elders, “I gave my daughter in marriage to this man, but he dislikes her. Now he has slandered her and said, ‘I did not find your daughter to be a virgin.’ But here is the proof of my daughter’s virginity.” Then her parents shall display the cloth before the elders of the town, and the elders shall take the man and punish him. They shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver and give them to the young woman’s father, because this man has given an Israelite virgin a bad name. She shall continue to be his wife; he must not divorce her as long as he lives.

 

 

 

Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. For it is commendable if someone bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because they are conscious of God. But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps

 

 

 

Deuteronomy 22:13-21

 

 

 

 

If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
05 Jan 2015, 12:17
#172
05 Jan 2015, 12:17#172
 DA you have shot yourself in the foot yet again. I have made some 13,600 odd posts.Now you go count them up and see how many are about Christ. You sincere apology will be accepted. Had any thoughts yet about thoise two Christains who died - are you getting aglimmer DA?
Of course in a discussion like this you will find out only a fool believes there is  no God. Gods word says that very clearly. You seem all chipped that God is teling you an inconvenient truth!! And now you are blaming poor Beeno! Gods Word also says the ONLY way to heaven is via Christ. And of course the Son of God is infini tely superior to any other teacher on the subject. Its what you could call a no contest. His Way is the only Way and totally superior to any other made man or devil made way.
I hope I am making ll this very clear to you DA. Instead of being an advocate for the devil become one for God. Now there's a great thought!
And of course you are lost without the Saviour - there is no one else who can save you. God's word makes that abundantly clear. God didnt send His Son to die an agonising death on the cross and have the horror of bearing our sin if there was any other way. 
Actually this is a great little summary.
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
05 Jan 2015, 12:17
#173
05 Jan 2015, 12:17#173

Pity about the bold areas, I can't get rid of them

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
05 Jan 2015, 12:21
#174
05 Jan 2015, 12:21#174

Well done Beeno

 

You are trying to convert people by calling them dumb, insane and plain stupid

 

What a great job Satan has made you do, keep it up, your success rate in turning people over to your own religion must be high

 

The devil himself at work for all to see, and he certainly chose the right "oak"

 

LMAO !! 

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
05 Jan 2015, 12:21
#175
05 Jan 2015, 12:21#175

Duplicate

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
05 Jan 2015, 12:26
#176
05 Jan 2015, 12:26#176
Your trouble DA is that you are far from Holy. I can only vaguely imagine how our Holy God must feel when confronted with this evil stuff. Only the fact that God is Love has stayed His hand. He has a plan of redemption and he is working that out. We are in the time of whomsoever will may come. 
Leave the ways of sin and turn to Jesus to save you.
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
05 Jan 2015, 12:34
#177
05 Jan 2015, 12:34#177

"Thanks Dr Moz these atheists are always trying to shut us up. They work very hard in universities trying to get rid of believers. Censorship is their game".

 

WTF !!.. What complete and utter rubbish, are you even being serious here?


"Unfortunately the internet has been their undoing".   WTF !!.. You base your faith on the fact that the "internet" has finally managed to process and disprove all other religions that are un-Christian?.
 "Atheists are now easy meat. Once there was nothing and now there is something." WTF !!.. Again, a real honest and humble Christian point of view.  Notice how many times you, as a devout Christian have insulted posters on here, and how many have reciprocated including me....... .. end of.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
05 Jan 2015, 12:37
#178
05 Jan 2015, 12:37#178
 DA one draws a straight line in the sand. You are wrong again. I cannot convert  single person. I only point the way. I must endeavour to be as clear on issues as is Gods Word. Neither do I want anbody wasting their time with religion. Turn to Christ is the message which you keep getting confused about. Judging by some reactions I could be succeeding. Jesus was very clear and he was crucified.  Te truth will set you free. Not half truths and ideas to flatter your egoes. Thetruth can be gentle but it can also be hard. If you dont want to be a fool repent and believe. The choice is yours.Millions and millions come to Christ each year ann the church is growing. Instead of worrying about that consider your won helpless estate.
I suppose when and  if you read Christ rebuking the pharisees and scribes of the day you are pained on their behalf eh DA. Or when Jesus took the whip and drove out the money collectors He was being most unkind?You have a great deal to learn about God DA. Become and advocate for God rather.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
05 Jan 2015, 12:57
#179
05 Jan 2015, 12:57#179
 

Personally I find it rather incredible that there are actually folks out there who honestly believe there’s no God … that there’s no Lucifer … no life after death … that this physical plain is all there is … and that when we die it’s over.


What boggles the mind even further is that these are supposedly intelligent people.


Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaa!!!!


Good luck with that. 


I see there’s a lot mentioning mass murderers and slave traders. Look how they gather together and point their hypocritical fingers at God … as if He’s to blame for all of it.  We’re all innocent … didn’t you know??


How convenient.


One moment He’s a figment of our imagination and the next He’s condoning slavery.


Puzzling!!!


They can’t seem to agree on whether He exists or not.


Which is it?


And I thought I was stumbling around in the dark.


Now it seems I can orchestrate genocide and blame Him for it. I can rape an infant and it’s all His fault.  Wow!!!


No consequences for the life lived. No retribution for the evil done. It’s as if we’ll never be forced to give an account one day.   




DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
05 Jan 2015, 13:01
#180
05 Jan 2015, 13:01#180

Answer my question above Beeno

 

Do Christians still follow thoses bible scripts, and if not, why not.

 

A summary of your posts here

 

This is how you sound after all your posts on here Beeno, maybe some inner reflection as to how to approach this topic next time won't be a bad idea. 

 

"Hi Beeno"

"Hey DA"

"Are you a Christian DA?"

"No Beeno"

"Don't be an idiot DA"

"I'm not an idiot Beeno"

"Yes you are DA, in fact you are insane to not believe what I do, you are a fool"

"Please don't tell me you are an Atheist DA, you are easy meat then, you need to believe what I do because I know the eternal truth, 100% confirmed"

"Where did you learn that Beeno"

"Hold on a second there DA, let me WhatsApp you some copy and paste bible versus, and look it up on the internet if you don't understand the meaning of it.

"Also DA, if your folks also believed in what you do, then they brought you up very wrong, so pass it onto them as well, they need to know the truth, as I know it"

"By the way DA, if anyone else tries to disprove what I am saying, they are stupid, and probably insane, I know the truth of truths so believe me and nobody else.. get it."

"No Beeno, I have my own beliefs"

"Then you are a stupid idiotic fool DA, enough said, if you don't think or believe in the same thing I do, may you burn in hell for the rest of your existance"

"Sure thing Beeno"

"Good luck DA, you need it you idiot, I can't believe you don't believe in the same thing I do, when you really should"

"Why Beeno"

"Because I know the real truth DA, and I am passing it on"

"And what about all those other friends and family of yours that don't believe Beeno"

"Then they are worthless, stupid as you, and deserve to burn in hell"

"Even your Mom and Dad, Brother and Sister, Uncles, Cousins, Best friend?"

"Yes, screw them all, if they don't believe like me, they must all burn like the rest"

"Ok Beeno, good luck with that then  Beeno"

"Shot DA, will try, now piss off, I need to indoctrinate someone else since you won't listen to me"

 

 

 

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
05 Jan 2015, 13:08
#181
05 Jan 2015, 13:08#181

Yeah CleanCut

 

Another interesting Christian view I presume, by typically making a post insulting people who don't believe in what you do.

 

Seems to be a very common trait amongst humble and born again individuals hey.

 

If you and Beeno are examples of what a true Christian is, prey tell, then tell me what the real benefits are, because I see no benefits from you two, being Christian, at all, just insults and copy pasting

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
05 Jan 2015, 13:21
#182
05 Jan 2015, 13:21#182
"I see there’s a lot mentioning mass murderers and slave traders. Look how they gather together and point their hypocritical fingers at God . . ."

Klown, I wasn't pointing a finger at any god. I don't believe in gods so why would I point a finger at one of them? Huh? I was just pointing out that the bible (which is allegedly the word of your god) condones slavery and even gives one the right to beat one's slave senseless . . . as long as the slave doesn't die. That's what it says in the bible, like it or not.

Why would I worship a god who condones slavery . . . or a god who is so full of himself that he orders a poor man to be killed just because he had the temerity to collect some twigs (so he could light a fire for his freezing family) on the day that your god ordained to be set aside for his own worship?

This idea of an afterlife is just a crutch. Rather live your life knowing you only have this one life so make the most of it.

Do you have any evidence of the existence of a god . . . benevolent or not? Any evidence at all to support your theory that you god-fearing people are right and the rest of us are stupid?

As for your notion that anyone who doesn't believe in a god faces no consequences for his actions, well, everyone has a conscience and personally I face the consequences of my actions all the time . . . not just some kind of reckoning when I die.

Happy New Year and good luck to your Lions in 2015.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
05 Jan 2015, 13:47
#183
05 Jan 2015, 13:47#183
 

I’m not here to convert you … or anyone else for that matter, Devil. It’s difficult enough getting myself sorted.  


Besides … you’re not interested in what I have to say. That much is clear. You prefer to follow the trend. The world as a whole has decided His fate. He doesn’t exist. They must be right then?


Don’t worry about the road to destruction being wide and that many find it … nor should you concern yourself with the narrow road that leads to salvation and that only a few find it. (Matthew 7:13-14)


After all it’s just fabricated nonsense and besides … it’s not cool. 


So I tell you what … you carry on with your thing ... and I’ll carry on with mine.




DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
05 Jan 2015, 14:00
#184
05 Jan 2015, 14:00#184

"You prefer to follow the trend"

 

How so?

 

Also, where have I displayed my beliefs?

 

You seem very quick to judge CC.... with little to no information, whereas I can judge you and Beeno on the insults you have put forth.  

 

 

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
05 Jan 2015, 14:20
#185
05 Jan 2015, 14:20#185
 
Thank you, Redneck. Appreciate it.

To you too. I hope you have a great year ... and your team too. Hopefully they'll take it to the next level ... it's been a long time coming.

To answer your question ... No ... I cannot prove to you He exists. Sadly. That's not how it works. He calls the odds. He reveals Himself to whomever He pleases. I have no say in the matter. I wish I did.

Integrity isn't something people strive for these days. Its a rarity. You may be one that lives your life by set principle s and I can respect that but how many out there feel the same way?

Idi Amin didn't think it was worth much. Neither did Hitler. 



 
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
05 Jan 2015, 14:36
#186
05 Jan 2015, 14:36#186
 Beeno: thanks for considering me to be a good human but my advice is to go lighter on judging others and be careful not to assume you know more about Jesus than others. 
We all have our belief systems. I have been touched by God's loving hand more than once. How I interpret that & include it in my belief system is my business & is part of my relationship with God. We don't need other fellow travelers telling us what is right & what we should or should not believe. I see such behavior as showing a need in the person who is talking & such needs can be negative as far as others are concerned. 
You are better off sticking to "it's the refs fault" 


RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
05 Jan 2015, 14:38
#187
05 Jan 2015, 14:38#187
Not sure about principles but I do have a conscience that tells me whether something is right or wrong.

In my experience I'm less happy with life when I go against my conscience so I'm guessing genocidal maniacs like Idi Amin, Adolf Hitler and Pol Pot either didn't have a conscience or else they were desperately unhappy people who experienced hell on earth.

I don't have a problem with people who disagree with me or have beliefs that are radically different to mine, my problem is with bible-bashers like Baboon-ou and SubstantialBull who disrespect other posters by plastering their mealy-mouthed and trite christian platitudes all over a rugby board. I can only imagine how these same god-botherers would react if a muslim poster started preaching the koran on this forum or if a jew started reciting the torah. I reckon they'd go nuts but - being intolerant and closed-minded fundamentalists - they don't realize they're doing the same thing.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,286 posts
05 Jan 2015, 14:56
#188
05 Jan 2015, 14:56#188
Not all my own views, but something to be wary off....
All of these listed "church leaders" are being investigated by the FBI for money laundering. Their are running non-profit charity organisations that are tax exempt, so they pay no tax on their earnings.
Yet it is suspected that they are taking most of the funds offshore and moving into their own personal bank account which is money laundering.
Not sure how happy poor people are to give the little money to have to charltons who live a life of luxury at their expense.
These are highly trained public speakers who have mastered techniques of persuasion. Basically they are very effective sales people especially to the lesser educated unfortunately. 


Why America Loves Religious Con Artists

Brother Jeff on September 23, 2014 — 3 Comments

The Lard magically brought my attention to this glorious article in the latest edition of Reader’s Digest magazine. It does not mention religious con artists (for obvious reasons, I think), but what is said in the article certainly applies to them as well.

Con artists are greedy hucksters who sell us possibilities that never come true.

This is what religion is all about, and religious con men have been selling the masses an invisible and imaginary product that they can’t claim until after they die for thousands of years. 

The Catholic Church has made a fortune off of the myth of Christ. Pope Leo X is alleged to have admitted as much with this famous quote: “What Profit has not that Fable of Christ Brought Us!” 

The Christian Church has been selling the promise of salvation and eternal life for two thousand years or so now, and it’s nothing but a myth and a lie. 

Death gives every appearance of being the end of our conscious existence, so there is nothing to claim and no awesome afterlife with Jesus to enjoy after this life is over. 

Faith healers such as Benny Hinn always have been and always will be con artists who make fortunes bilking gullible and often desperate people out of a hell of a lot of money. 

People like Joel Osteen (pastor of Lakewood Church in Houston, TX) and Joyce Meyer have made fortunes off of selling “feel good” spiritual/religious bullshit to their followers. Paul Crouch(founder of Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN), now deceased) and Pat Robertson(founder of Christian Broadcasting Network (CBN)) have made fortunes off of religion, thanks to constant pleas for money in exchange for promises of blessings from an nonexistent God. 

Brother Pat at least used to make quite a show of pretending to be hearing from God on his 700 Club TV show, claiming to magically know of their ailments through the power of the Holy Spook and claiming that God was healing them, especially if the viewers in question would simply reach out and touch their TV set in faith! I’m not sure if he’s still doing that or not since I have not watched the show in years, but what I once took seriously when I was a believer, I now find amusing and entertaining. 

But, of course, it’s also sad because those same gullible people allegedly being healed are often bilked out of their money as well. And then, of course, there are televangelists such as Robert Tilton (of Farting Preacher fame on YouTube) who make a fortune promising gullible believers that if they send in a $1000 “vow of faith” that God will open the windows of Heaven and rain down financial blessings upon them. 

And, of course, Robert Tilton gets rich while the gullible religious fools are left $1000 poorer, and the sad thing is that these are often desperate people who didn’t have the $1000 to spare.

 Oral Roberts was famous for his “seed faith” concept which made him a fortune, and of course it has been copied by many televangelists with lucrative financial results for them. The point here is that religion is nothing but a scam and a con game, and it’s been running successfully for thousands of years, because credulous people who want it all to be true keep buying into the myths and the lies and the false promises.


This is often sadly true, but I find nothing at all admirable about religious con men bilking gullible and often desperate people out of a ton of money. People such as Pat Robertson, Benny Hinn, Joel Osteen, and the late Paul Crouch are not people who should be looked up to or admired, and of course neither are con men such as Oral Roberts or Robert Tilton. They should all be despised for the heartless con men that they are. But instead, gullible religious people flock to hear them and eagerly part with their money hoping to receive financial blessings or divine healing from God in return. And, of course, the false and empty promises go unfulfilled 100% of the time, yet people never seem to learn, so the con game goes on unabated by that pesky thing called REALITY.

As the sociologist Alex Preda writes, “Talent for persuasion is key: After all, the public must be convinced to part with their money on the basis of the simple promise that an idea will yield profit in the future.” Successful entrepreneurship involves hucksterism, the ability to convince investors and employees that they should risk their money, their time, and their effort on you. Like a con artist, you’re peddling optimism. As Mel Weinberg (the model for Christian Bale’s character in American Hustle) put it in Robert Greene’s book The Sting Man, “It’s my philosophy to give hope … That’s why most people don’t turn us in to the cops. They keep hopin’ we’re for real.”

Persuasive religious con men have been convincing gullible and often desperate people to part with their money for centuries, promising a glorious afterlife or divine healing or financial blessings in the here and now in return. 

And, of course, the glorious afterlife is a myth that the faithful will never receive, as is divine healing. And financial blessings in the here and now for turning cash over to a televangelist? That will, of course, never happen either. Most, if not all, televangelists should be in prison for financial fraud (at the very least), but because the con game is popular and is bought into faithfully by millions of gullible believers, the con men stay free to enjoy their ill-begotten fortunes.

Of course, the fundamental difference between entrepreneurs and con artists is that con artists ultimately know that the fantasies they’re selling are lies. Steve Jobs, often enough, could make those fantasies come true. Still, that unquantifiable mélange of risk, hope, and hype provides both the capitalist’s formula for transforming the world and the con artist’s stratagem for turning your money into his money. Maybe there’s a reason we talk about the American Dream.

I have little doubt, personally, that most religious con men know that the bullshit (lies, religious fantasies) they are selling is just exactly that BULLSHIT

They certainly are living the American Dream of self-made wealth, but not in the way I would want to do it. T hey are criminals and they should be viewed as such, yet the religious public loves them. I find nothing worthy of admiration in making a fortune off of bilking gullible and often desperate people out of millions of dollars by selling them a pack of myths and lies and false promises. Yet, no matter how often these con artists are called out publicly for the charlatans that they are, the con game will go on because people want to believe that it is all for real, and religious con men will continue to make a fortune off of that unfortunate hopeful but gullible part of human nature.

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
05 Jan 2015, 15:28
#189
05 Jan 2015, 15:28#189
 
Most Christians live by the letter and not by the Spirit.

Even though they mean well they tend to do a lot more harm than good.

Anyone can study scripture and quote it word for word ... doesn't mean they have a relationship with the Living God.

Many take the little knowledge they have to elevate themselves above others. Make themselves out to be righteous ... holy. Better than you and I.

We have con artists across the globe taking His word and using it for personal gain. Enriching themselves by it. Doing immense harm

The true Christian ends up having to defend themselves and their God because of these people and any slip up in their own lives brings heavy judgment down on them.

Ask DA ... he loves to criticize and judge even though he himself doesn't have an original thought of his own.

Being a Christian is not a cop out or an easy life. It's tough and takes a lot of commitment.

Hats off to those who can manage this life.




DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
05 Jan 2015, 15:55
#190
05 Jan 2015, 15:55#190

Hence my questions earlier quoted above

 

Why are certain scriptures not adhered to anymore?

 

Is it the modern way of thinking?

Is it because now it is against the law?

Is it because they cannot be monitored accurately?

Is it because it never happens anymore?

Is it because it now goes against God's word?

Is it that man evolved to become more accepting to his / her own faults?

 

Killing a rebellious son, if that's the case mostly all of the men posting here would have been dead already.

 

Killing a non virgin at marriage, in that case most of people's wives and mothers would be dead already

 

Killing anyone who works on Sundays, wow !!, most of the world's population would be dead by next Monday.

 

Why do Christians not adhere to these principles or scriptures anymore, if the bible is to be believed and lived by as Beeno says

 

These are relevant intelligent questions, not bashing, nor insulting, it's a simple case of questioning "The Word"  

 

 

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
05 Jan 2015, 16:03
#191
05 Jan 2015, 16:03#191

CC

 

What a complete cop out you are

 

You start off on this thread by insulting others, then when confronted, you cop out and call names again, because you have no reasonable reply, just insults.

 

You want me to believe you are a true Christian... what a farce you really are

 

You mentioned "You prefer to follow the trend"

 

That's you my good man, the trend I see from Christians like you and Beeno who insult their way to trying to put "Jesus into the heart of others"

 

You go boys, get into the good books anyway you can I suppose , lmfao !!

 

You are an insult to Christians around the world

 

"Being a Christian is not a cop out or an easy life. It's tough and takes a lot of commitment." 

 

What commitment, what a joke .......You obviously are not Christian then.... so maybe I assumed incorrectly.... despite your God preachings on here, because with all the filth you have spewed on here previously.... you cannot in any way say you serve and represent the Lord Jesus Christ

 

If that is what makes a true Christian, then no wonder there is no hope  
 

 

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
05 Jan 2015, 17:08
#192
05 Jan 2015, 17:08#192

And the final cop out, CC, is the following

 

None of us know when we are going to make our final next step in this life, to wherever or whatever we each believe it to be and that is precisely why most Christians pray to the Lord Jesus before going to sleep every night for their sins from that particular day, or maybe from a long time of not believing. 

 

And that is all well and good, and I respect anyone who does that, like Beeno, who I actually think is a decent bloke, just delusional sometimes with his thoughts about some things.

 

Here is the outright hypocrisy though.

 

Some of those same Christians like you CC, (The sheep that got lost) will immediately start on Satan's path the very next morning, spewing filth on some website or in real life knowing that all will be good with the world once you pray to that same God that you did the previous evening, so you will be cleansed again and absolved of all evil, and sit smirking in the knowledge that you will be saved... again and again and again.

 

Good on you then laddy

 

If any God, sees that as fit, to behold a place for that individual next to him in heaven, whilst that individual is perpetuating hate, resentment or aversion on a daily basis, knowing his God will continuously cleans him of his sins...... what God is that.

 

You are still a very lost lamb CC, with no inclination of which direction at all to go in if you are to be believed as being a Christian.

 

As Beeno would say, best you up your game son

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,286 posts
05 Jan 2015, 19:22
#193
05 Jan 2015, 19:22#193
I have highlighted some points in the above article about some of the most widely known "Church Leaders" being investigated by the FBI, and also other Christian organisations that are genuinely run for charity and not for profit. 
Beeno you should be careful that you are not funding the next famous Charlton. (DO NOT GIVE MONEY TO  THEM)
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
07 Jan 2015, 08:38
#194
07 Jan 2015, 08:38#194
 Oh please DA could you please try and undertand once and for all that God is calling you a fool if you are an atheist. I of course agree with God. All athiests must accept they are fools and wise up. If they dont God's assessment of them as being fools will not change.You may not think there is any advantage in accepting the pardon won for us by Jeus on the ross and the gift of eternal life but sorry i cannot fathom that thinkinbg at all. If youare referring to me as a person. I know I would be in a far worse condition now nut for God in my life. He has defintely imprived me a lot. You can be thankful for that DA ya halfwit!
Likewise JW wise up and think before typing thsi latest nonsense! I am not judging anybody. I am faithfully conveying the biblical truth that there will be a judgement. We will all rise to the judgement throne of Christ. Nobody will be found not gulity on that day via their own merits - NOBODY. 
I see ou rootiwt has again ignored all my posts re the slavery allowed. Why the year of Jubille saw slaves being released IF they wanted freedom. Why God led his people out of Egyptian slavery and why John Newton ceased to be a slave trader when he came to Christ or why William Wilberforce, a Christian, fought slavery etc etc.All these are simply excuses to remain in the dark rooitiwt - a darkness which Gods Word says man naturally prefers.Come to the light and you will see - at the moment you are stumbling about in the dark speaking nonsense.Rooitwit you still have not explained how the unverse created itself out of nothing Bwahhahahahahahahaha that really cracks me up. Stephen Hawkins, Krauss and Dorkins cant do it but perhaps you can help out as I suggested before? I also find these speculations of a multiverse for which there is NO evidence another hopeless attempt to avoid the inivitable conclusion there is a GOD.Notr btaht a multiverse really helps your miserable cause. Who created the multiverse from nothing. Who created time and space.It is of course game set and match but the atheists limp on from one blunder to the next Hahhahahahahahahaha. You disprove one thing and they come up with another folly rather than thinking heck if I am wrong on this what else can I be wrong on. 

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
07 Jan 2015, 08:55
#195
07 Jan 2015, 08:55#195
 DA please try and not twist what I have been saying so horribly. The reason I am bring these things to your attention and the attention of others is that you will not land up in hell. Your rants are way off. Atheists have no leg to stand on - their world view is totally discredited by science which was their big hope but which has tured on them and delievered a death blow. The science has led me to God said world leading athiest Antony Flew. The information encoded in things proclaims mind and Flew realised the game was up.
I am simply pointing these things out as inconvenient as that maybe and as uncomfortable as that may be. I am not here to win a popularity contest with the atheists as I realise fully they will squeal blue murder about anyone telling them a loving God invites them to retun to Him and be pardoned for their many sins.
Stop ranting and raving like a lunatic and consider the truth being laid before you. Ask yourself why you are so anti God , could it be that Satan has been working on you. These are NOT my ideas they come from God's Word. 
Jesu said if you dont gather with me you scatter. You are scattering and are fighting against the Lord and you have lost. Terrible situation to be in.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
07 Jan 2015, 09:03
#196
07 Jan 2015, 09:03#196
 JW I must add if other her eknwo more about Jesus than me good on them. I just try and stick as close as possible to the scriptures and try to convery scriptural truth rather thasn my own notins on these matters which have no value to speak of . God has spoken and you and i as well must take note.You cant make up your own ideas of what God is like. He h as revealed himself.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
07 Jan 2015, 09:12
#197
07 Jan 2015, 09:12#197
 Bluebok you evidently think you are wiser and kinder than God and just cant beleive he will judge correctly. You know what is right and wrong, what is just but God doesnt. Perhaps God needs you to advise Him?You have a problem boet and its your sitting in judgement on God Himself and thinking you are better than He is.If you trun away from God for any reason your foolish mind can think of you do yourself a massive disfavour. You must have seen here how some oaks are making one excuse after another as they prefer the darkness. Your excuse is just one more.
Wise up Bluebok dont allow the Devil to take you down with him. Trust the Lord to do right for he is all knowing, love itself and wise beyond all wisdom. Put aside these foolish thoughts that stumble you so unnecessarily! Seek Him and you will find and you will then realis e the magnitude of this folly.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
07 Jan 2015, 09:15
#198
07 Jan 2015, 09:15#198
 Becs I do trust you now realsie ther cant be an infinite regression and still be somehing here. I trust you see the error in logic you are making. Pretty elementary stuff really. 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
07 Jan 2015, 09:18
#199
07 Jan 2015, 09:18#199
 By the way Sharkbok, mandela will also rise to the judgemnt thrown of Christ and will have to pay for his many sins if he is not a Christian. 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
07 Jan 2015, 09:21
#200
07 Jan 2015, 09:21#200
 DA you are blind as God word says the prince of this world (Satan) has blinded the eyes of all those who are perishing.Cry out and ask God to remove your blindness and heardness of heart.  Youare perishing but dont even realise it!
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