CoronaVirus spreads to Red States in the US

“ I believe I can back up my arguments with facts and you are simply getting annoyed because your unable to refute them.  “ 

I can refute them. I’m just not in any mood to carry this on for days on end again. I’ve had enough arguments and discussions around conservatism, Trump and Johnson to know what goes for what. I have done enough research on each of them. Up until around July 2016 and shortly after Trump announced that he was running, my view was that I was glad that I didn’t have to vote in that election because the one candidate was as crap as the other. And then I started doing research. Proper research. That changed my mind. 

Same with Johnson. I did not start supporting him yesterday. I was pissed off about Michael Gove’s behaviour, following David Cameron’s resignation. Had he not stabbed Boris in the back, Theresa May would not have been PM and Brexit would have been over and done with, probably even before 29 March last year. The trade deals with the rest of the world would have been sorted or close to being sorted. The US/UK one, the Japan/UK one and the AUS/UK ones at least would most probably have been in place. I’m pretty sure that the EU had a sigh of relief when Boris withdrew from the race in 2016. 

Stav

Frankly you believe the garbage from the US media on Trump.  The fact is that if Trump did what Obama did - you would definitely be right in what you said,  Obama did what is called State Capture and the actions of the Justice Services is proof of it,  That no doubt let to spying on US citizens that has been revealed and also to a consistent program to undermine the Trump Administration - what happened does not show democracy at work,  Fact is it is the biggest political scandal in the history of the USA,     

What is now going on in the USA is criminal.  The Democrats organized "protests" in the USA using two affiliated groups - BLM and Antifa - for the purpose,   The "protest"  led top riots killing 15 people, thousands of buildings were destroyed through fire and looting and iss till ongoing in cities,  Essentially the more reactionary and communist  rioters are protected by the Democrats who want to take over the Government and is not prepared to wait for an election to do so,  

So I am not a rightwing supporter - I have learnt something from history and I am afraid the answer is that the Democrats have gone rogue,  A civil war in the USA is quite possible and that will be the second time the Democrats will start a Civil War in the USA.

“ Posted by: sharkbok (11885 posts)

Ceradunce getting his arse handed to him again...“

You wish. BTW, how are you coming along with that story of yours, about the Bible- bashers who love bashing their Bibles?

@Simpleton Mike,

BLM and Antifa make up a small percentage of the population. If they support Democrats it is because they are less right than Republicans. Many people who went to the protests do not support Antifa. The radical Antifa element is the problem - and should be dealt with. They are so far extreme left that they are just anarchist that does not support any order. Most probably will not even vote. 

The Democrats will take any votes they can get - but the majority of Democrats are average middle-class people. 

Trump is the least presidential leader in the whole world. His antics on Twitter are childish with his constant arguments - both offline and online. Mike Pence is at least a politician- and has some presidential characteristics. 

All Trump has done is cut taxes which was good. However, most Republicans would have done the same thing. All his trade wars and negotiations with countries around the world have not been effective for the US in the long term. 

Joe Bidden is hardly the ideal president - but he is known to be right-wing by American classification. He got the most votes out of the candidates and he is stability.  He has more experience of any politician in the US- so he is safe hands. 

All the Democrats have to do is make tax lower and they would more votes from the smarter Republicans. More tax = more socialist. Many of their other ideals are fine.
For example, it is not as if any Americans want their country flooded by Mexicans drug cartels- even if they never originally wanted to build the wall. Many Democrats may agree the wall is worth keeping. 

You misjudge Americans and the Democrats as a whole. You just focus on the most left-wing part of the Democrats- with minority influence.

Cowardunce is too dumb to know he's getting his arse handed to him.

That's the sad truth.

And once again, like clockwork, ou Rooies rocks up in support of his lickspittle.

Joe Biden is not ‘the ideal president’.....the man is senile.....’ideal’ hardly covers his shortcomings.

‘Your not interested into a lengthy argument because you have never been able to properly debate with me’.....pouts Anger.

Is that Irish?  It certainly isn’t English!

“The dark side clouds everything. Impossible to see the light, the future is.”

“ Posted by: sharkbok (11887 posts)

If someone is a bible basher - they like to bash the bible. Just like saying if someone is a tennis player, they like playing tennis. “

Except I’m this particular instance,  it doesn’t work like that. Now watch how an Afrikaans speaking Boertjie schools a Soutie in the use of his own mother tongue.

Bible Basher - “ Commonly used universally against Christians who are perceived to go out of their way to energetically preach their faith to others.[3] “

Bashing- “ the act of beating, whipping, or thrashing:“

I do not know of one Christian denomination who would treat their Bible in such a disrespectful way  

@Moz. Hell you read the full post. I got tired when I realised that we were about to be going in circles again. 

This is the bottom line. There was an assertion that Starmer is better because he is a lawyer. I pointed out that a good lawyer is not necessarily a good politician and I listed a few really shyte ones. That’s all I had to say, until Anger arrived on the scene and turned it into one lengthy essay after the other turning the thread Boris and EU arm wrestle. 

Although, it was actually Vrottie who started the crap by throwing Starmer and Boris into the mix. Maybe I should have just ignored it, but how was I to know that it would trigger Anger to get on his high horse again. 

“  But he's vastly better at handling slight inclines than Trump is. If I lived in America he would get my vote.“

Exactly. When a reporter asks him about his involvement in the Flynn debacle he just straight out tells the truth by saying that he wasn’t involved and he can remember some discussion, and that’s all. Oh wait.,..

“ He [Biden] got the most votes out of the candidates and he is stability.“  Many attribute his mumbling gaffs to his age, but he was not an old man when all of this started:

‘Lawyers may account for more politicians than all other professions combined’.....which is a tragedy. In the old days land owners who had experience managing people were the representatives.

Lawyers are trained to apply rules....to look for chinks in their opponents‘ armor. To wallow in the micro. Washington is awash in lawyers. 

But even the brightest lawyers have a tendency to lose the big picture and get caught up in technicalities. Many are more crooked than their clients.

Collectively they are destroying the country. Bayer bought Roundup as part of a Monsanto package. A blue chip American company. Now the Plaintive's Bar has sued Bayer on the basis of almost certainly bogus science which occurred under Monsanto’s watch.

Billions are at stake....and having gone through a few of these rodeos I’m sure Bayer had the best legal advice available.

It’s legal anarchy and it’s destroying the country, making it harder for foreign companies to invest with confidence. All supported by lawyers in Congress on both sides of the aisle.

“@Ceradunce -It is pretty obvious that being a lawyer does not ensure someone will be a good politician.”

That was exactly my point right from the start. You have to admit, though,  that you seemed to suggest that being an ex-lawyer had something to do with his performance as a politician.

Of course the following remark is another of your pearls of wisdom that you keep stacking up. Hahahaha

“ However, the legal profession probably accounts for more lawyers than any other job.”

I would like to see your guardian angel get you out of this one. He will most likely leave you out to dry, like he did with your 0.55 blunder. 

“ including the prime ministers during Apartheid. (They were all newspaper editors)”

South African history doesn’t seem to be your strong point either.

Louis Botha - Soldier

Jan Smuts - Soldier

JBM Hertzog - Soldier

DF Malan - Church Minister

JG Strydom - Lawyer

HF Verwoerd - News Editor

BJ Vorster - Lawyer

PW Botha - Studied law but ended his studies to become a career politician.

“ including the prime ministers during Apartheid. (They were all newspaper editors)”

South African history doesn’t seem to be your strong point either.
Some of the below list probably died before Apartheid....So your history is not great- considering you were alive in the 50's and 60's. 

Louis Botha - Soldier BEFORE APARTHEID)

Jan Smuts - Soldier BEFORE APARTHEID)

JBM Hertzog - Soldier (BEFORE APARTHEID)

DF Malan - News Editor 

JG Strydom - Lawyer

HF Verwoerd - News Editor

BJ Vorster - Lawyer

PW Botha - Studied law but ended his studies to become a career politician.

---------------------------

VERWOERD
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hendrik_Verwoerd - 

D. F. Malan - Wikipedia

Po litical career[edit]

Malan's involvement in National Party politics began shortly after the NP's formation in 1914. In those years, political parties had affiliated newspapers that served as their mouthpiece. However, Nationalist-minded Afrikaners in the Cape had no such outlet and therefore, in 1915, decided to found De Burger, which later became known as Die Burger. They persuaded Malan to become the editor of the new newspaper and he used it as a springboard for entry into parliament.

Malan was the inventor of Apartheid and Verwoerd the architect - and both newspaper editors. (Head Journalist). 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Minister_of_South_Africa

I gave you a total list of all the Prime Ministers, including the so-called Apartheid Prime Ministers  

Malan was a church minister in principal, and was persuaded into becoming the editor of De Burger. He held the position until he entered into politics, around three years later. I wouldn’t rally characterise him as a news paper editor but I’ll give it to you if it will make you happy. That makes it two “Apartheid” news editors and by no means all of them as you have suggested, proving my point that your knowledge of South African History is pretty shyte. 

No matter how you paint it, or try to paint it, you said that they were all news editors. It was only when you were shown up, that you quickly called in good old Wikipedia to help you out. 

the 2 key players

Cowardunce gets schooled again . . . but instead of saying thank you, he pretends he was the one doing the schooling . . . only after he did a quick frantic Google of DF Malan and realized he had egg all over his stupid face!

LMAO!

DF Malan - News Editor  - Editor of first Afrikaaner Nationalist newspaper. ( Inventor)

JG Strydom - Lawyer

HF Verwoerd - News Editor (The Architect)

BJ Vorster - Lawyer

PW Botha - Studied law but ended his studies to become a career politician.

@ Moz, you are indeed more “correct” than me, in that the only one I elaborates on was PW Botha. Also spot on about Malan. That was what I was also trying to tell ou Vrottie early on. I was also talking off the top of my head, hence forgetting that Dr Verwoerd was actually a sociologist turned newspaper man. That was what his academic was about after all. 

BJ Vorster was indeed a serious lawyer. He was an advocate after all, or a barrister as they are known in the UK.

@Vrottie. I never had anything to say about lawyers being politicians and I didn’t dispute it either. I had two core remarks. (1) A good lawyer does not necessarily make you a good politician, and I gave you a few good examples of shyte politicians who were also lawyers. (2) You are wrong about all “Apartheid Prime Ministers” being news paper editors. I actually gave you a list of all SA Prime Ministers to show that still, with them included, there were only two newspaper editors. 

I fully agree with the role of the media in politics, although I would not call them a 4th estate. They should not be bracketed in with govt. Their role is twofold. They have to do investigative journalism in order to (a)  keep the public informed and (b) to act as a watchdog over govt. 

Unfortunately the media has neglected both of those roles. Probably even discarded of them. They have turned from supposedly neutral to clearly partisan and became political hacks and propagandists. They do not report the news anymore. They write opinion pieces and disseminate falsehoods and/or twisted “truths” to suit the narratives of their bosses. 

The government is not 1 single estate, it is 3.
Each of the 3 estates is separated to limit the power and make decision making more democratic.

The media is the unofficial 4th estate. It is not part of the government- so it is "unofficial".
Its role is to investigate the 3 estates and report on reality- or rather an ideology of that reality. 

Web results

Fourth Estate - Wikipedia

Oh really? If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, you baffle them with bullshit. 

You said that: 

a. “ However, the legal profession probably accounts for more lawyers than any other job. 

That was in general and not referring to South Africa. You have by no means proven that the most politicians were either lawyers or journalists before entering politics  

b. All of the “Apartheid Prime Ministers” were ex journalists/editors. This was the first time you dragged in SA, confident that you were spot on. That was soundly debunked. Whether they were the main ones or not. Fact is that, as Moz pointed out, they were not really even news editors. Malan was one for three years at the most and became one (successfully) as a stepping stone into politics. Verwoerd was a lecturer in sociology and became an editor for the same reason as Malan. 

You can go check for yourself. In fact, IIRC BJ Vorster was one of Verwoerd’s students. 

Very rare indeed Moz, very rare. 

Journalists, movie producers and above all advertising agencies ,,  the Army, Navy and Air Force of the information wars.

Yeah. Advertising agencies. If you had to believe the British as agencies, the whites in the UK make up about 10% or less of the population, most families are interracial, most men are gay and most women are lesbian. The same with TV shows. 

I always joke about it and say that I wouldn’t have to try hard to claim minority rights. I am after all one of very few Afrikaans speaking people in the UK. Only problem is that I have a huge disadvantage. I am white, male and heterosexual.

Cera, see my comment above your one. The media on either side of the fence are exactly the same. If you believe any one side, but not the other, you're an idiot.