An Apartheid Squatter Campaign in Pretoria

Ok. Let me stick my hand up and remind you that I haven’t been that deeply into these things since my studies. I’ll give you a little background. I studied B Com (Personnel Management) at Tuks in the eighties. At that time it was a fairly new department and the head of the dept was Prof Herholdt , actually from the Psychology. Other varsities called their degrees BCom (Industrial Psychology). Tuks took their degree closer to the Institute of Personnel Management (IPM) which was, at the time, serious about selection, among others. The IPM had their own diploma in Personnel Management which was recognised as a three year degree.

The most important tool, when it comes to selection in big corporations, is psychometric testing. This is where Personnel Management and Psychology starts overlapping. Tuks, I think, got it right, at the time. They were the only varsity who had participation status at the IPM conventions due to their approach to psychometrics. To eventually become an Industrial Psychologist you had to go through certain stages. With a three your degree you needed a certain period of internship under an industrial psychologist as well as getting the academic qualifications. We had practical psychometrics once a week and our times in class were logged and counted as post graduate internship. Students from other varsities had to start these internships post graduate. My degree, combined with my practical psychometrics allowed me to take down and interpret B and C level psychometric tests.

But here is the hands up part. I was studying part time while I was in the defence force. So, after my studies, I never had any further involvement in psychometrics. And all the stuff that you are touching on are things that are fairly new to me and things I haven’t really been involved with since the eighties. 

So, sorry mate. I’m not even going to give it a go. It’s above my paygrade. I left the defence force in the early nineties and got involved in other stuff, removed from Personnel Management. I ended up having my own company involving CCTV and other security stuff and brought that over to the U.K., so to speak. 

All good, Cera.

For interest sake, check this out.

It is an example of acquired savant syndrome. In this instance, head trauma caused a merging of areas associated with conscious and sub-conscious maths/geometry.

Pretty cool.

Redneck ... my use of the word “native” is what I’ve decided upon as a suitable replacement ...but you know that. They are natives to the continent and that’s good enough for me. Besides, everyone knows exactly whom I’m speaking of when I refer to the “natives”.  

Clearly it offends you? Why else would you have brought it up?

I am aware of who the true “natives” of this country are ... so spare me the lecture.

I’ve never painted you as a lover of the black man ... or the defender of his rights over your own people. You did that all yourself. Many times.

You seem to have taken up a different stance these last few years ... or is that just what you’d have us believe? No matter. Why not grow a pair and stay the course. Be their defender. I’m sure they’d really appreciate it.    

May I remind you that you are on record for stating that your pick for Bok captain would be the talentless Notshe. I’m sure we all remember that. You and I both know that it had nothing to do with merit ... but everything to do with his race.

I’m sure you would agree that if you’re prepared to go that route with your beloved Springboks, then affirmative action and Black Empowerment within our society is not too far from the heart.

Klown are you able to support even one of your lies with something to back it up?

Where have I put black people ahead of white people? Where did I ever suggest Notshe should (not could) become Bok captain?

It's hard to take a liar seriously. I no longer bother with serial liars like ou Maaik and Baboon-ou who are proven cowards as well. Are you also a coward? No? Then put up your evidence, chump.

“ Posted by: CleanCut (9227 posts)

May 18, 2020, 13:11

Redneck ... my use of the word “native” is what I’ve decided upon as a suitable replacement ...but you know that. They are natives to the continent and that’s good enough for me. Besides, everyone knows exactly whom I’m speaking of when I refer to the “natives”. “

Hmmm... Natives, which they technically are - as opposed to Blacks, which they definitely are not. 

@Ceradynce, somewhere along the line you seem to think the IQ test is a failure because it is not objective as a result of the frame of reference. 

P arts of the frame of reference are biased to Western society, or modern society. While some parts are purely mathematical and consistent in any culture. 

However, it would stand to reason that a coloniser is smarter than those being colonised, otherwise it would be the other way around. Just like the Vikings took over the UK, or the Romans etc because at the time they were smarter.

Just like if Aliens arrived tomorrow, they got here first so it could be assumed they are smarter- at least as a statistical average. 

The purpose of colonisation is to take over a country. By today's moral code it would be considered illegal, however social mores change over centuries.

So an IQ test is probably not entirely fair. However, it is a better option than Apartheid as it at least identified the smarter individuals within the colonised race and then make an attempt to integrate them into modern society and give them a western/modern frame of reference. Over time they have children and the middle class of all races continues to grow.
Apartheid just destroyed any idea of a frame of reference. 

So it is a transition process that could take hundreds of years. It would break down racial barriers - at least in the middle class.
The goal, of course, is also to not allow the colonised population to outvote the colonials, as that would defeat the purpose of colonising a country. (Even after a country is no longer colonised, their descendants would have sovereignty by that time, and would not want to be outvoted) 

America only used to allow other races to vote if they could write. That is similar to an IQ test as it demonstrates at least average intelligence (at least in that time). So it is Democratic - but only for some people within the colonised population. The goal is, of course, to grow the middle class and average IQ of as many people as possible- while still retaining control in politics- until it is no longer necessary. (e.g. the majority of people within a country are in the middle class and are able to vote for competent leaders). 

Hall Of Fame

10243 posts

Don't think I've seen a better Lions team than this one, not even the great Lions teams of the mid 90s. 

Oops.

LMFAO

"If nothing else, it would certainly shut some of the politicians up"

Wow...…really

So...…...if nothing else.....you are picking a black player over a white player.... just to shut up some of the politicians...…very noble of you Piss Mint

Don't try and confuse this very clear statement of yours.... because it is right there...... in your face...… in your own words....... so no confusion, no misrepresentation of the facts... the context is in black and white

"Klown are you able to support even one of your lies with something to back it up?"

"Where have I put black people ahead of white people?"

LMFAO...… I have comprehensively shown up Piss Mint for the liar that he is... on probably about 4 occasions now...…and CC and Moz have done the exact same thing.... right here..... right now......LMFAO

Classic stuff....

Piss Mint..... don't leave again.... just take it on the chin this time

Posted by: sharkbok (11607 posts)

May 18, 2020, 15:22

@Ceradynce, somewhere along the line you seem to think the IQ test is a failure because it is not objective as a result of the frame of reference. 

For some reason you seem to think that you have the ability to see inside my head and know why I say things and why I hold certain views. 

I have never said that the tests failed.  I questioned the value of using the tests, especially what you want to use it for. and I told you exactly why. If you don’t believe me then tough shit.

I asked the question, and I’ll ask it again. What is the use of an IQ test? What do you want to achieve with it? The only one who really have a use for an IQ test is a clinical psychologist who uses it as a first step indicator. It is often used as a diagnostic tool for kids with behavioural issues. The starting point for diagnosing autism, ADHD, etc is usually an IQ test. You do know that quite often kids, with autism, score very high in IQ tests, don’t you? Kids with severe learning disabilities, on the other hand, get very low IQ test scores. 

Do you know the scales on the IQ table at all? Do you know without Google at which point you are considered to be of average intelligence, what is classified as severe mental disability, what is classified as gifted, etc, etc. 

You have come up through thumb sucking with the idea of 100 (IIRC) as the qualification norm for voter eligibility. 80-114, is classified as average. You want to disqualify people of average intelligence from voting. Do you know that around 30% of children with autism are average to above average on IQ? Are you mad? 

The parts that are the frame of reference are biased to Western society, or modern society. However, some parts are purely mathematical and consistent in any culture. 

You are accentuating your ignorance in virtually every single argument you throw out. A proper comprehensive IQ test, once again,  is a total battery of tests covering a whole spectrum of dimensions. You just do not understand, or maybe you are too stubborn and do not want to understand. The questions has to be conveyed in such a way that the test subject fully understand the questions. 

I will try to explain this to you. Back in the day, communication between black and white was very difficult. I can guarantee you that, should we now both have been able to be transported back to 1970, and be put in among black people at the time. I would be able to communicate more easily than you. Take note. I do not say easily. I say more easily. In those days you would explain to a black guy how you wanted something done. At the end you would, for instance say do you understand? In his language and idiom, that he has translated in his head, would be: “Do you hear me”. He would say “Yes”. Meaning : Yes, I hear you”. You hear: “Yes, I understand”. He would go away and do what he think you wanted him to do. You come back and crap all over him, thinking he is stupid. The right way, after explaining what you wanted, would have been to ask him to explain to you what he needed to do. 

It was the same with the tests. You needed to be 100% sure that the right message got across.

Once again. The tests did not do justice to the blacks. It would have been an even bigger discrimination to use it on them to determine voter eligibility. I said that immediately following your post, suggesting that. 

Ever since you’ve been dancing around trying to persuade me that, despite you not having a clue about IQ testing, that I am an idiot who just refuse to agree with you because I’m trying to be funny. 

However, it would stand to reason that a coloniser is smarter than those being colonised, .....

You are getting more and more ridiculous by the minute. That is the biggest lot crap so far. Nothing says the one is smarter than the other and your assertion that the whites (the colonisers) was smarter than the blacks(the colonised) as a fucking insult to the blacks. I’ve been trying to tell you this all along. The blacks scored lower on the IQ tests because the freakin’ tests discriminated against them unfairly. That is why your idea of using IQ as a norm to determine voter eligibility is outrages. 

In addition, you have still not commented on another point that I made. You would have had to sell this bullshit to people who have clearly declared their main goal of “One man. One vote”. Your idea would never fly. There first comeback would be: “You want to deny my voting rights based on a test designed by white men for white men? You can go fuck yourself”. They would have run straight to the UN and the entire world would be jumping down our throats. 

......otherwise it would be the other way around. Just like the Vikings took over the UK, or the Romans etc because at the time they were smarter.

More bullshit. 

Just like if Aliens arrived tomorrow, they got here first so it could be assumed they are smarter- at least as a statistical average. 

Hahaha. Now your dragging in imaginary aliens. Are you going to run IQ tests on them as well? Which one do you think would work the best? Wechsler or Stanford-Binet?

The purpose of colonisation is to take over a country. By today's moral code it would be considered illegal, however social mores change over centuries.

And then some more of the same. 

So an IQ test is probably not entirely fair. 

Only probably. After all of this, do you still think that there may be a slight chance that it may be fair? 

However, it is a better option than Apartheid .....

And out pops the ignorance again. Intelligence Quotient is a psychological diagnostic tool. 

Apartheid is a socio-political system of governance. 

This is like saying gumboots is a better options than an ejection seat. 

....as it at least identified the smarter individuals within the colonised race and then make an attempt to integrate them into society and give them a western/modern frame of reference. Over time they have children and the middle class continues to grow. 

And on and on and on and on. 

Apartheid just destroyed any idea of a frame of reference. 

And there we go. You heard the term frame of reference and you patched on to it. You are talking shit mate. If anything their frame of reference broadened under Apartheid but sadly not enough. But, once again. The frame of reference would not have been important had the black academia gotten out of their corners and assisted in developing tests for the black kids. So, clinically, they were as much to blame than the Apartheid govt. 

So it is a transition process that could take hundreds of years. It would break down racial barriers - at least in the middle class. 

Hahaha. And then you come up with this beauty. You are shitting all over the NP for not getting it right in 46 years. 

The goal, of course, is also to not allow the colonised population to outvote the colonials, as that would defeat the purpose of colonising a country. 

America only used to allow other races to vote if they could write. That is similar to an IQ test as it demonstrates at least average intelligence (at least in that time).

Yadda yadda yadda. Being able to write is a far cry from scoring high average in a “foreign” IQ test. You do know that “One man, one vote, only really came to light I’m the USA in the mid 1960s. 

“  Posted by: sharkbok (11610 posts)

Ceradunce,

You obviously do not like IQ tests, probably because you score badly on them. Your area is Trivial Pursuit, just regurgitating facts. “

This is getting tedious. You have absolutely zero foundation to say this. I have explained numerous times. What this has been used for and how it is applied. I ask you once again, what the fuck does it matter what Einstein or Bill Gates or the man in the moon’s IQ is or was. What difference does it make? Huhh?  Tell me. Once again in IQ tests, like any other psychometric test, the important readings are outliers. Average readings means absolutely bugger all, and unless you are looking to use those test results for some specific reason, they help you absolutely sweet bugger all. 

Even if you do test a person and his results reflect a rank outlying value like say 35, you still only know that there is some kind of problem. You cannot even determine what the problem is. I’m not even going to take this part any further because the regurgitating one is on you. You are the one who have probably forgotten where all this started. 

Maybe it is time to revisit your assertions:

As I said, good luck with that. They wanted us out of SA, yet you were going to try this approach:

“Listen, we are going to transfer power to you guys but there will be a few conditions.

First, take your one man one vote idea and shove it where the sun don’t shine. We are going to run IQ tests on you guys, all 20 odd million of you. Yes, we know that you don’t like them and we know that they are not accurate and that you guys will most likely score lower,  but shit happens. You don’t score at least 90, (although we know that 80 is also regarded as average), then no cigar. No vote.

Oh and by the way. This idea of yours of Whiteys having to go back to Europe where they came from. You can forget about that one as well. We are gonna bring in even more if the fuckers from Europe and the rest of the western countries so as to increase the population because that is another department that you are failing in miserably. You lot know fuck all about breeding. Leave that for us whiteys from the western countries. We are waaaay better at breeding than you guys. “

Good luck, mate. All the best.

"actual facts"

Says the poster who has previously picked a player just to appease openly racist politicians...…. and then denies ever going against white players...…. and also demands proof or facts that he did..... calling other people liars......

The facts are right there Piss Mint...… you stamped your foot and demanded them to be provided here...… you got it

LMFAO...… 

First, take your one man one vote idea and shove it where the sun don’t shine. We are going to run IQ tests on you guys, all 20 odd million of you.

The fact the VisKop can't seem to understand this very simple point says volumes about both his IQ and his EQ.

Shark, what is your IQ?

I know what mine is. Well, what it was in about 2005 ;)

Thank you, Mozart.

Redneck ... I must say, I’m rather disappointed. I expected better from you.

Turns out you’re as big a liar as those you accuse ... or is it cowardice that had you cover up your post?

What has happened to you?

Any way ... I’m not going to go around and around with you. I still respect the Redneck of old ... and so will leave it at that.

Can somebody of higher IQ tell me what this sentence means...?

"While not perfect, there is nothing better at determining intelligence. Just because there are other factors, it does not mean that IQ tests are legitimized."

Hahaha

Shark, 

You're leaning on poorly formulated ideas and then mixing those with a dollop of moral grandstanding and biased presumption in order to arrive at some speculative outcome. 

All this because smarter people would, according to you, vote for better leaders...apparently. I just wonder if you're aware that even if you got your desired outcome, you'd actually not have achieved anything?

Yes, Vissie, in case you didn't know, intelligent black people still vote for the ANC and EFF, even after Zuma and Mugabe. And its got ZERO to do with smarts.

I'll summarise. You're leaning on flawed logic to arrive at an outcome that wouldn't solve the perceived problem anyway.

And for the record, some of the insults you're levelling Cera's way, are entirely unnecessary. Tell me, do you also accuse your dad and other older family members similarly? Ja, exactly.

Very poor show from you VisKop.

Well, Plum ... SharkShit exposed himself as a halfwit ages ago.

Anyone who gets Easter and Christmas confused must surely be a full blooded dumbass ... especially after being raised and schooled in a Christian country.

Sometimes one gets the impression that there's actually hope for the lad ... and then he has a relapse and spoils it all.

You never know what you'll get from him day to day. 

Haha CC

Watching him and Cera spar is like seeing a dad walk though a shopping mall with his kid on one of those retractable leashes.

Extreme patience required from the parent but lots of laughs for everyone looking on. 

As for CleanCutt/ Aka the lost sheep.

You hate South Africa more than anyone. It is like a jail sentence for you. No doubt one of the backward supporters of Apartheid. Like Ceradyne, when other more progressive ideas were suggested long ago - you both knew better and Apartheid was the ultimate system. 

You are now paying the price... 

When a dog gets backed into a corner with nowhere to go, it’s fangs come out and it starts barking and biting at anything, everybody around it. Even those who are trying to help it out of its predicament. 

"Apartheid reversed, and maybe then in the future Ceradynes idea will work of a gradual change of skills- however, so far it has been the other way around."

...are words very far removed from what would come out of the mouth of a nybody that has worked in SA. 

The only way that transfer of skills will not work is if blacks are lesser than whites and will thus not be able to achieve the same outcomes when equipped with the same skills. Unless, you are saying that blacks are just too dumb to receive said skills in the first place.

Just when you think this plonker can't paint himself further into a corner.

I kinda think that's the nail in the coffin for you, Vissie.

Tell your disproven political theories to your black master when you are his bitch.  Garden Boy Bum Plum...

Coincidentally, I just learned about this guy from Texas, Dean Chancy.

PROCEEDS FROM DEAN'S SONGS WILL GO TO HELP DISPLACED FAMILIES LIVING IN SQUATTER CAMPS IN SOUTH AFRICA.

THIS ALBUM IS AVAILABLE THROUGH APPLE MUSIC AND iTUNES  ACROSS THE UNITED STATES AND IN SOUTH AFRICA  

Dean joined the army at 17 years of age.. Even though he spent his time jumping out of airplanes as a paratrooper and an army ranger, he has always had a love for songwriting. He grew up listening to Marty Robbins, Johnny Cash and Don Williams.

Over the years, Dean has written hundreds of songs and recorded in Houston, Nashville and appeared on Sounds Country in South Africa.

Dean’s newest release is an album titled “It Ain’t Easy to Kill a Boer,” the first three songs on the album are written for and dedicated to his friends in and from South Africa. All proceeds of this album will go to displaced Afrikaners in South Africa.

Economic Freedom Fighters leader Julius Malema wants a future where white people are domestic workers and carry the babies of their employers on their backs."

Somebody is losing the plot.

@Ceradunce, with comb in sock and Kaki pants, listens to that song and falls asleep on the sofa holding his toy gun and Sheriff badge each night...  Conquered and listening to a song written by someone in texas?

Why so scared to tells us what you ran away from when you were 23? You told us how everything was bright and shiny in SA when you left. You were a youngster with the new SA beckoning. SA was cooking and you were on a roll? What scared you shitless and caused you to run away? 

It couldn’t have been the fear of going to the Army because conscription ended in 1994. Obviously that would clearly have been enough to see you running away with your tail between your legs. There is no way that I can picture you having the balls to do military service. 

Maybe you told some big black dude that he did not deserve his right to vote unless he scored 90+ in an IQ test. That would also have been enough to get your little matchstick legs rattling, while you were running to mommy to get her to pack your little suitcase and book you a ticket to England.   

LOL, Sharkie. 

I'm glad that you wish servitude upon me. Unfortunately for you, I'm quite the opposite of a born follower AKA most marketing professionals. Haha

Also, you should know, I've got no problems with giving a black kid a piggie-back ride. In fact, I've done many times. 

Your aversion to it just confirms your not so well concealed racist mindset, yet again.

All I wanna know is, does there come a point where you finally get a W under the belt? You keep eating these Ls, time after time, and I don't know how much more you can take.

Breathe, think, cumon StinkVis, I'm routing for you.

"Unfortunately for you, I'm quite the opposite of a born follower AKA most marketing professionals. Haha"

Back in the day, we referred to marketing (bemarking) as bevarking...the marketing students were the slackers who did not have a full time table and could get away with not studying too much...I see things didn't change too much in real life...great for a party, but not so much if you needed to get sh! t done.

@Draad, and did you say you were a dropout? Studied engineering, but did not complete your degree. 

If you want to be an engineer, studying engineering is good. Although people have studied this, and do not want to work in engineering. 

However, if you want a profession like marketing and advertising, it is better to not study engineering. 

I said nothing of the sort...not claiming to be a rocket scientist, but no drop-out either...not that there's anything wrong with not finishing everything that you start...it happens to the best of us at times...don't make a habit of it though. 

"If you want to be an engineer, studying engineering is good. Although people have studied this, and do not want to work in engineering. 

However, if you want a profession like marketing and advertising, it is better to not study engineering. "

No sh!t Sharkbok! I am actually still working in the field I studied in, and although we thought the marketing guys were slackers...and had things easier, it was all in jest. We were a bit envious of their free time, but that's where it ended. Each to their own.  Engineering isn't for everyone and most engineers end up in management and do very little engineering anyway...and on and on...let's not go there. I've got a good friend with a degree in civil engineering who hasn't done a day of civil engineering in his life, but would not have been able to do what he does without his engineering education...it's about the way it develops the mind...for some anyway...