FIXTURESNo upcoming fixtures — check back soon.
FORUM / MIKES GRIPES /  An Apartheid Squatter Campaign in Pretoria

An Apartheid Squatter Campaign in Pretoria

Started by sharkbok207 REPLIES3,236 VIEWS· 15 May 2020, 01:43
SHAREXFACEBOOKWHATSAPPTELEGRAMREDDITLINKEDIN
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
19 May 2020, 20:23
#121
19 May 2020, 20:23#121

“  @Draad, and did you say you were a dropout? Studied engineering, but did not complete your degree. 

If you want to be an engineer, studying engineering is good. Although people have studied this, and do not want to work in engineering. “

Hahahaha:

“  No sh!t Sharkbok! I am actually still working in the field I studied in,“

Looks like he just swallowed down another nice big fat L

“ All I wanna know is, does there come a point where you finally get a W under the belt? You keep eating these Ls, time after time, and I don't know how much more you can take. “


SH
sharkbokCaptain23,209 posts
19 May 2020, 21:01
#122
19 May 2020, 21:01#122

.

SH
sharkbokCaptain23,209 posts
19 May 2020, 21:01
#123
19 May 2020, 21:01#123

Is that text talk, or black slang?  (T, W etc), It seems that the transformation is turning Plum into a black person. Hey Baas, the T's and W's. 

I have seen some of the poorer schools in London where kids from all races, are starting to speak black slang like rap talk that is hard to understand. 

SH
sharkbokCaptain23,209 posts
19 May 2020, 21:07
#124
19 May 2020, 21:07#124
@Ceradunce, tell us your backstory of why you left SA, and why did you choose the UK? 
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
19 May 2020, 21:16
#125
19 May 2020, 21:16#125

...you gonna tell us your IQ, DomVis?

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
19 May 2020, 21:21
#126
19 May 2020, 21:21#126

"@Ceradunce, tell us your backstory of why you left SA, and why did you choose the UK? "

Why don't you tell us yours first Surfer.

SH
sharkbokCaptain23,209 posts
19 May 2020, 21:43
#127
19 May 2020, 21:43#127

@Draad, Ceradyne a lready asked me and I gave the story. See above. 

SH
sharkbokCaptain23,209 posts
19 May 2020, 21:45
#128
19 May 2020, 21:45#128

@Bum Plum. first, work out your own IQ and then add 50 points. That should about do it...

 If you tell me what you think your IQ is, I shall let you know what I think mine is. However, if you give a figure that is not double digits, it will not be believable. 

By the way, what did you say you worked in? a teacher? I seem to remember you made a post a few years ago asking everyone to wish you luck for a new job. Not a school teacher, but a teacher of something else. 


 

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
20 May 2020, 01:13
#129
20 May 2020, 01:13#129

Posted by: sharkbok (11627 posts)

May 19, 2020, 21:07


@Ceradunce, tell us your backstory of why you left SA, and why did you choose the UK? 


My sons made career moves to the U.K.  Career moves. Not recreational moves. 


That left my wife and I on our own in SA. We are a close knit family.  We decided to explore our possibilities. I got the opportunity to basically move my business to the U.K. in a way. 


The mother company  took over my SA company and we started a U.K. branch as a joint venture. I got a visa as a sole representative of an overseas business, and that was it. The market in our field of business is way more advanced in the U.K. than in SA. Was a win win situation for the SA side and myself.


My whole family is here. Us, the boys, grandkids, the lot. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 May 2020, 01:40
#130
20 May 2020, 01:40#130

Nice move Vlag!

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
20 May 2020, 09:42
#131
20 May 2020, 09:42#131

Well Shark Shit ... apartheid may have been an evil ... but if you are honest with yourself, you'd have no choice but to admit that it was a system that took a small African state and turned it into a first world country. The only first world country on the continent I’ll have you know.  

We were a country that designed and developed our own military equipment ... like the Rattel ... the Buffel ... the G6 Canon ... and an assortment of strike helicopters like the Rooivalk.

We even designed our very own high powered military rifle ... the R4, which I used extensively in South West Africa.

We were completely self sufficient, even under sanctions.

Our currency was on par with the Dollar ... we had one of the best education systems on the planet ... our medical services ranked right up there with the best the world had to offer ... for example ... in 1967, Dr Chris Barnard was the first surgeon to successfully transplant a heart.

Tell me ... what have your people brought to the table ... other than corruption and chaos ... theft and murder ... drugs, potholes and load shedding?

Anything of note??



CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
20 May 2020, 09:55
#132
20 May 2020, 09:55#132

@CC,

The Rooivalk alone was a massive achievement. I cannot find the link again, but the story is this. When the U.K. were looking at new attack combat helicopters, they looked at choppers from all over the show. It was eventually whittled down to two. The Rooivalk and the Apache. 

What swung it to the Apache in the end, was that SA could not guarantee production numbers. That was the only issue. The Rooivalk was absolutely on par, and on some points better than the Apache. 

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
20 May 2020, 10:17
#133
20 May 2020, 10:17#133

What an amazing country we had back then.

Even our students fresh out of varisty were highly sought after abroad.

The sky was the limit.

Look at us now.



CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
20 May 2020, 10:33
#134
20 May 2020, 10:33#134

Remember Airwolf, the TV series about the futuristic super helicopter? The main character a helmet with with the missile site built into it. Pie in the sky in those days. 


......An



Denel had already designed and built the first real life working one  

The first aircraft with simple HMD [Helmet mounted display]]devices appeared for experimental purpose in the mid-1970s to aid in targeting heat seeking missiles. These rudimentary devices were better described as Helmet-Mounted Sights. Later, Mirage F1AZ of the SAAF (South African Air Force) used a locally developed helmet-mounted sight. This enables the pilot to make bore attacks, without having to maneuver to the optimum firing position. South Africa subsequently emerged as one of the pioneers and leaders in helmet-mounted sight technology. The SAAF was also the first air force to fly the helmet sight 

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
20 May 2020, 10:44
#135
20 May 2020, 10:44#135

We even baffled the Soviets and sent them scrambling to get on equal footing. Al while fucking up IQ tests to knife the blacks for just in case some clown would suggest, in 2020, using IQ tests to determine voter eligibility.  

Operational jet fighters with HMD (Mirage F1AZ) were fielded by the South African Air Force. After the South African system had been proven in combat, playing a role in downing Soviet aircraft over Angola, the Soviets embarked on a crash program to counter the technology. As a result, the MiG-29 was fielded in 1985 with an HMD and a high off-boresight weapon (R-73), giving them an advantage in close in maneuvering engagements.

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
20 May 2020, 12:34
#136
20 May 2020, 12:34#136

Lol Vissie, now see, if I told you my IQ, or at least what it was when last tested in 2005, your disbelief would only serve as an unwitting compliment to me.

In other words, I already win, so no point playing.

Yep, another L for you.

SH
sharkbokCaptain23,209 posts
20 May 2020, 12:40
#137
20 May 2020, 12:40#137

@Bum Plum, so what is your job I ask again?

SH
sharkbokCaptain23,209 posts
20 May 2020, 12:52
#138
20 May 2020, 12:52#138

@Cleancutt, you are diverting away from the original point. 

While SA did well in the past, it is a country that perhaps had the most natural wealth out of any country such as gold and diamonds.
A long time ago gold used the be a major factor in determining currency.
There was also an unlimited supply of cheap slave labour. 

Sanctions ensured no further progression on the international stage. 

There needed to be some plan for the future instead of just living from day-to-day. There needed to be some type of merit system over time, otherwise, it was enviable that things were going to be short-lived. 

It was just pushing back today's problems until it was too late- which is what happened. Nitpicking on the value of IQ is pointless, as it is just a means to an end. It along with other variables could be used to find people worth investing in

I suppose the older generations at least got to live most of their life in SA, but the younger generations are only experiencing what is left of SA today, or have long since departed the shores. The new Jews without a homeland. 

People under 30 today that are in SA are now well and truly experiencing third-world conditions, and will have no recollections of the old SA.
However, they will still have to pay the price for whites that are either dead from old age, or jumped ship to another country. 

Ceradynes Broederbond lacked the vision to see the inevitable...Well, as least Ceradynce still has his comb in sock as memorabilia... 

Listening to war songs from a Boer in Texas saying it is not easy to kill a Boer... Especially when they are on opposite sides of the world...


PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
20 May 2020, 13:29
#139
20 May 2020, 13:29#139

I do various things within the energy industry, Shark.

Consulting, contracting, teaching, compiling procedures and regulations for SANS and mentoring.

The teaching bit. I've revamped an SAQCC energy-related qualification, from entry-level all the way through to industrial grade. Bit complicated but they asked me to get involved because, in SA, there is nobody else with my experience. Basically, I'm bridging the gap between the standards and procedures here and those in the 1st world. The teaching is more of a complementary activity to the larger process than a focal point of my career. It just gives me a better view into what's going on at ground level.

I've made a ton of changes and written two brand new courses which now form the core of the qualification. I've designed a national practical training facility where apprentices are assessed. That includes the training methods, new procedures, assessments...everything. In summary, I've singlehandedly revamped the entire qualification from the ground up. Oh, I also implemented a completely new re-qualification program for guys that are already in the industry. Very much of what I do is lifted directly to SANS. 

Currently, I'm creating a new course which will have it's own recognised qualification and allow for specialisation once qualified. 

Here's an example of the stuff I teach...

Did you know that flames conduct electricity? Perhaps you did, but did you know that flames rectify electricity? In other words, if you input an AC current into one side of a flame, you receive a DC current out on the other side. 

All in all, this takes about 10% of my time. The rest is spent on my business.

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
20 May 2020, 14:06
#140
20 May 2020, 14:06#140

Ou Sharkie, you have your head so far up your arse it is unbelievable. 

The technological achievements of “old SA” has no link to what was below the ground or how it was retrieved from below the ground. What you’re saying, by implication, is that the stupid whiteys, especially the Boere, were not as clever as they thought they were. They just looked clever because, underneath their arses, they had fortunes in gold, diamonds and other minerals. 

No, mate. It was because they were innovative and they were prepared to figure out a way forward. When the world enforced the arms embargoes, they weren’t lost like today’s snowflakes who cannot do anything for themselves unless they are taken by the hand and helped to qualifications due to lowered standards. They didn’t have safe spaces and they weren’t dependent on nice beaches and surf to survive from one day to the next. 

They were innovative enough to work around their challenges and make plans. They took what they had and rebuilt it and improved on what they had. 

They progressed from reverse engineering and rebuilding the Oryx, Super Frelon and Allouette III helicopters to building the Rooivalk that was on par and better than the Apache. They took an old Howitzer gun and rebuilt and improved it and eventually stunned the world by building the first highly successful motorised rapid deploy canon in the world. When they didn’t have oil they looked at what they had available and improvised. They developed a proces to economically produce oil from coal. 

Take away your laptops, tablets and smartphones and you’re fucked. 

To reckon there is nothing left of SA, and that it is the fault of the previous generation, is living in a surrender mentality. Typical modern day snowflakes. There is as much available to them to build the country again,  as my generation had available, and more. 

If the younger generation weren’t so laid back and thought they are entitled to everything on a silver platter, things could easily get back to where it was but you need backbone. Something that very few snowflakes have. Listen to what Plum has been trying to tell you, and stop blaming others. SA has gone to pieces, not because of what the older generation did. It has gone to pieces because of how the new generation was too limp wristed to maintain and keep in shape what was started and put in place by my generation and before. Beautiful clean modern hospitals filled with the best equipment and expertise are gone. Infrastructure gone. Not because of my generation and before. Gone due to the ineptitude of the new generation. 

There came a time when they had to take over the baton but they dropped it. They gave everything away. 

It wasn’t my generation who gave away our world leading iron and steel industry to the Europeans in Luxembourg and their Indian friends. What is left of that and all the jobs that went with it? Gone. Nothing left. And it is not only the steel. It is all the by products that went with it. As an example, because of our advanced processes in steel making we were able to extract vanadium from the slag that is normally thrown away. Vanadium, used in producing chrome vanadium was exported all over the world. All of that is gone, and it happened post 1994. Why? 

Let me tell you. Instead of sticking to the plan and going the transition route, the wisecracks decided to kick out the experts who organised the international deals and jont ventures. The guys who understood the intimate workings of the international steel and ferro-steel industry. They replaced them with deployed cadres. What did they do? They listened to their Indian friends who told them: “Tell you what. Now that you have gotten rid of all the whitey top brass who knew the ropes, why don’t you ell us your factories cheap cheap.We’ll take it over, take over the work force and look after them really really well, promise. We'll do everything. Don’t worry yourselves about anything. Just sit back and relax”. So they did. They sat back relaxed and...... poofff. An entire industry stuffed. 

Gold is not gone. It’s still there. Maybe not as much as it used to be but it’s there. It just needs to be extracted to capacity again instead of letting them overflow with water. Like saint Mandela’s nephew and Zuma’s fat son did. 

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
20 May 2020, 14:14
#141
20 May 2020, 14:14#141

Interesting Plum. But you should have gone into marketing. It’s waaaay more exciting. And you can go surfing as well. Then again, you probably wouldn’t have made it in marketing. Not with an IQ of 50 less than that of ou Vrotvis  

Jokes aside. Good job. Sounds like something really important which is needed so as to help others educate themselves. Kudos to you. 

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
20 May 2020, 14:25
#142
20 May 2020, 14:25#142

Cera, here is a case in point example...


I need to purchase a large amount of machinery for one of my projects that is commencing the moment lockdown ends. The project is close to PE, where I have a lot of family. One of my cousins is married to a guy that works for his pappa's business which sells the machinery that I need.

Thinking, hey let me throw some business their way, I contacted them a week ago, told them I needed to make a purchase ASAP and if they can quote me within three days, and if I'm happy with their price, I'll use them. We're talking closing in on half a million Rand's worth of stuff. I told them I already have prices from my regular suppliers. To price that for me would have taken them all of fifteen minutes.

Surprise surprise, I got no prices despite reminding them every day since I made the request. I even phoned the guy once a few times to remind him on top of the emails.

That's exactly the type of limpwristed stupid shit that is the result of being soft and having everything served to you on a platter. And guess who he'll blame once he runs daddy's business into the ground? Not himself, no never. Of course not.

Today I finally made the purchase from my regular suppliers. So i lose a week for trying to help people.

It's always the same kak. Nobody has work, everyone blames the government, apartheid or the full moon and on and on. But then you see countless examples of people just being sleg. Just sleg. And then you have to wonder, once you remove all the nonsense excuses, is life really that impossible or are they just useless, lazy and spoonfed twits?


CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
20 May 2020, 14:57
#143
20 May 2020, 14:57#143

The defence rest their case, Your Honour. 

SH
sharkbokCaptain23,209 posts
20 May 2020, 15:46
#144
20 May 2020, 15:46#144


SH
sharkbokCaptain23,209 posts
20 May 2020, 15:50
#145
20 May 2020, 15:50#145
.
SH
sharkbokCaptain23,209 posts
20 May 2020, 15:50
#146
20 May 2020, 15:50#146
Ceradynce said: "back in my day, we were so tough".
During Apartheid with all the best jobs reserved for a hand full of people, particularly religious male Boers it was so difficult... It made us so tough.
Having an unlimited amount of slave labour to do all menial work domestically and for business made us so tough. 
Compare that with today where many white kids are growing up in squatter camps, with no food. Throw in the Coronavirus for some extra fun and black people are blocking food from even getting to the squatter camps. Laws designed to reverse Apartheid and victimise people etc, etc
It is very hard to imagine how growing up as a white kid right now is so much easier than during the peak of Apartheid. 
SH
sharkbokCaptain23,209 posts
20 May 2020, 15:53
#147
20 May 2020, 15:53#147

back in my day - Urban Dictionary


www.urbandictionary.com › define › term=back in my ...
?? 76,371,271?? 644?? 13The way an old man tells you to stop whining about shit that people back in their day did differently.
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
20 May 2020, 16:18
#148
20 May 2020, 16:18#148

There really is massive money to be made in SA

However, the lack of urgency, customer service, follow up processes, company policies, training, or just the downright basic ability or enthusiasm of that companies employees to do their job....  is precisely what is costing so many South African companies these days.

The complete lack of urgency to even want to do business is astounding.

I don't just hire people based on their qualifications.... and I never have..... never will.... it is but a portion of what I take into account overall, when looking to hire someone.

I also don't ever hold a formal interview process......irrespective of what position I need filled.

When I do a interview, I ask a few questions from their CV and then the rest of my questions are based purely on the answers that I am getting back from the potential candidate during the interview process

Kids today seriously do feel and act so entitled...… and they are also incredibly disrespectful towards the older generation...…. you can judge so much from a b asic interview, by the way they talk, sit, act etc etc and I also don't read too much into body language because it can give far too many false positives in so many different ways

At the same time, I have to say, kids these days are also faced with the harshness and realities of life far, far quicker today, than with the kids from the 70's 80's.. and by those realities, I am talking about sex, drugs, bullying, social media.. etc etc.....

I know that some of you may shoot me down in flames, but in a lot of ways, I really do believe that it is far harder growing up today as a youngster, than it was in the 70's - 80's - 90's

I hire people based on what they have done and what is happening in or with their current lives at that time of the interview...…and a lot of those people are youngsters …… but man, a lot of them just don't want to work, and most of them expect some massive salary

A lot of youngsters today, still believe that getting any degree at university automatically qualifies them for a huge salary.... lol..... the realities of the real world comes crashing down on them very quickly.... shame.

The openly expressive "Born frees" are pathetic..... in both the way they express themselves, and also by how important they perceive themselves to be in this "New" South Africa

As with adults, there are still some great and fantastic youngsters out there, but so many still "blame" apartheid for their current woes, yet profess at the same time that they are born free...…but nothing has improved for them …...so I don't know anymore





CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
20 May 2020, 16:33
#149
20 May 2020, 16:33#149

“  Ceradynce said: "back in my day, we were so tough".“

Are you sure? I said that?

As for the rest. 

“ Compare that with today where many white kids are growing up in squatter camps, with no food.  “

There were way less blacks in squater camps pre-1994, than right now. Any black who wanted to work could get a job. Sure there was job reservation but there were jobs. 

Let’s assume white people didn’t start leaving in large numbers and the whites remained at 10% of the population. The declared aim of the ANC was that the S.A. society should reflect the demographics of the country. That could therefore argue that they were striving to get 90% blacks in top jobs. Right so far?

By the same token, whites should  then occupy 10% of the lowest level jobs as well. Makes sense? Do whites make up 10% of the lowest level jobs? You tell me. I guess not by a long shot. 

Equally the unemployed whites should make up 10% of the unemployed. I have no idea what the real figures are. Maybe you know because you are supposed to be clued up on everything. Maybe they do, maybe they do. I don’t know.

Now, finally, to get back to your own comparison. If the aim was equality and reflecting the demographics then surely whites should be entitled to 10% of social benefits, or am I totally crazy? Maybe I’m missing something and whites are not entitled to 10% of social benefits and maybe it is atrocious to even contemplate looking after needy whites. Be that as it may, by all accounts those whites are not getting the fair share. Guess who carry a large part of the burden? Churches. Those useless stupid uneducated evil Christians. 

Just out of curiosity. Do you see yourself being tough enough to survive in a squarer camp? Remember there are no beaches and surf. 

You are quite right that it is extremely tougher for a white kid growing up in modern S.A. because of limited opportunities but, as Plum said, if you are prepared to pull your finger out of your arse you can eventually survive. 

You are saying that .... “ It is very hard to imagine how growing up as a white kid right now is so much easier than during Apartheid“ . Are you suggesting that most white kids,  in 2020 SA, are living in squatter camps conditions? 

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
20 May 2020, 17:22
#150
20 May 2020, 17:22#150

IMO, the 80's was the best decade for kids to grow up...like ever in the history of the world. 50's, 60's and 70's weren't half bad either...started deteriorating in the 90's...brought on by the false sense of security brought on by thr collapse of the Soviet Union...the W est was infiltrated and not invaded...just about conquered and most people doesn't even realize it.

SH
sharkbokCaptain23,209 posts
20 May 2020, 18:23
#151
20 May 2020, 18:23#151
@Ceradunce, you are using ANC reasoning that jobs should be allocated based on a % racial makeup. It was a long tirade that you provided- but suffice to say that I have already made it clear that merit should be the primary factor in allocating jobs. (Before and After Apartheid). 
The whole basis of my argument on IQ was trying to identify the best resources and skill them up and build a middle class from all races, instead of segregation based on race. It was a process over time. Not the radical change of the end of Apartheid, and what happened in other African countries with one man, one vote. SA had to find a way to get around the one man, one vote. 
The way your defend Apartheid is nonsense. Most of the jobs reserved for black people was low skilled cheap labour. They had no roadmap in their careers, nothing to bring hope. 
Obviously it was not all the white peoples doing.  Issues such as black people having 20 kids each like Zuma, was more suited to before the industrial era- or even the feudal era. A population that has doubled in 30 years is impossible for the economy to sustain. Places like Port St John's that could have been another Durban - became a backwater place of civilisation. The black population does not have social, economic or political systems designed for the 21st century- and this is why Africa is so far behind the rest of the world. They have not been able to build a Democratic society with a dominant middle class. 
However, to defend Apartheid as a fantastic system is garbage, especially when smart individuals from all races were kept down. 
The end of Apartheid was never going to be a transition. It was a revolution. It was handing over the keys to the country. . 

SH
sharkbokCaptain23,209 posts
20 May 2020, 18:27
#152
20 May 2020, 18:27#152
@Draad, 
Most peoples best times in their lives are from 12-23 years old - before you become an adult and there is more responsibility and also acceptance of the status quo and no longer unlimitless potential. The 9/5 job routine sets in, and people slowly start to accept their lot. The freedom is gone.  So it can sometimes seem like the best time to grow up is when oneself grew up.
White kids of today in South Africa have it hard. Sure some are still well off, but many are not. More and more jobs are blocking white skin. And things are going to be worse. 
It is also much more dangerous than being a teenager during or just after Apartheid. From 2007- SA really started to nose dive. Durban is now called by many as DirtBin. 
Many have to stay secluded within their suburbs, and places like the Durban Beachfront which was amazing- are just not as appealing. 
The question is what will it be like in 20-30 years. Either the government changes or there is some form of international (Globalist) aid to help resolve the problems. 
SH
sharkbokCaptain23,209 posts
20 May 2020, 19:08
#153
20 May 2020, 19:08#153

Ceradyne

Hall Of Fame

8944 posts

If the younger generation weren’t so laid back and thought they are entitled to everything on a silver platter, things could easily get back to where it was but you need a backbone.
Something that very few snowflakes have. 
Listen to what Plum has been trying to tell you, and stop blaming others. (The same Plum who has said multiple times on this board he wants to get out of South Africa as it worsens ....)
SA has gone to pieces, not because of what the older generation did.
It has gone to pieces because of how the new generation was too limp wristed to maintain and keep in shape what was started and put in place by my generation and before

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The NP handed over the keys to the country. One day is way Apartheid, the next day it one man, one vote. (With a massive black majority). So much for a transition...
Their leader Mandela had just left jail for like 25 years. and the world community was supporting black people. 
No wonder they wanted to get rid of White people so quickly. If we were all born as black people in SA, chances are we would want to do the same. --------
And you blame the future generations... 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 May 2020, 19:47
#154
20 May 2020, 19:47#154

South Africa was a pawn in domestic US politics. It was in no party’s interest to in any way protect the white minority. South Africa’s leaders never got that when they sent the troops into Angola.

So now the country is compromised, the trends are going in the wrong direction, the average man of all stripes is much worse off....but the world is okay.

I have been in so many discussions arguing there was a way to avoid all this. But I really think that’s naive.  South Africans could have gone the Israeli route with much less support, or accepted the numbers. None of the decisions which might have delayed this....like  spinning off  Xhosa land could have been made at the time.

It was a grand economic chapter for Africa, but it had shallow political roots.  The Volk must trek again.

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
20 May 2020, 20:08
#155
20 May 2020, 20:08#155

“  Posted by: sharkbok (11638 posts)

May 20, 2020, 18:23


@Ceradunce, you are using ANC reasoning that should be allocated based on a % racial makeup.“



Uhmmm. Glad you noticed. Unfortunately, like Apartheid had flaws, everything else had its flaws. My transitioning, the ANC’s promise of a new 100% equal society. The only flawless one, according to your reasoning, is the IQ test one. Unfortunately for you, that is the one that has nothing but flaws. 




“  The whole basis of my argument on IQ was trying to identify the best resources and skill them up and build a middle class from all races, instead of segregation based on race. “


You are still trying to convince yourself that you can bracket IQ in with skill. You can’t. There are numerous psychometric tests to test skills levels. IQ tests measures one thing and one thing only. Level of intelligence. That’s it. Nothing less. Nothing more. You can have someone who has an IQ of 120 who cannot stack two bricks on top of each other. You can have someone with an IQ of 70 who can lay thousands of bricks per day. Perfectly in line and with perfect joints. 


They have different skills. Using some brick laying test, the bricklayer will pass with flying colours. No IQ test will tell you that he is a brilliant bricklayer. No IQ test will expose the guy with the IQ of 120 as a shit bricklayer. 



“The way your defend Apartheid is nonsense. Most of the jobs reserved for black people was low skilled cheap labour. They had no roadmap in their careers, nothing to bring hope. “


I’m not defending Apartheid. I’m discussing the reality. Have I denied job reservation? No. You are also not quite correct about career paths. In 1975 my father, who worked for Anglo American Corporation,  promoted a number black storemen ahead of whites. He got a bit of flack. The white union reps rocked up at his office one day, demanding he call in the whites who were superseded to discuss this. They were called in and were told that the union guys were there to address their grievances. They, the white superseded guys, wanted to know grievances they were talking about. Long story short. The white guys told the union guys to stop stirring shit. The black guys deserved the promotions. They were working next to them for years and the promotions were overdue. That is the honest truth. My dad was not the only one in Anglo to promote blacks. Anglo was also not the only big corporate that had careers for blacks. There were career paths in the civil service, in the police, in the medical profession, all over. My mother was a nurse her entire life. Whenever anybody battled to find a vein for IV treatment or drawing blood, the white nurses would call one of the black nurses. The black nurses, for obvious reasons, were brilliant at finding veins. 


So, yes. There were job reservations. I never denied it. I never said that it was right either. But that could/should have been fixed. Fixed without fucking up an entire economy and social construct. 



“The black population does not have social, economic or political systems designed for the 21st century- and this is why Africa is so far behind the rest of the world. “


Just tell me one thing. Where did the white population get the social economic and political systems designed for the 21st century? Remember that somewhere along the line they started off at the same point where the blacks are now. Actually worse off. No electricity, no clean water, no modern medical supply and systems, no computers, no telephones, nothing. Where did they get their social, political and economic systems? 


Am I saying that because it wasn’t handed to whites on a silver platter, the blacks do not deserve it? No ways. But that does not mean that everything has to be grabbed away from the whites and handed over to the blacks. If I was a black man, my first objective would have been to say to the white man: I would be grateful if you decided to share some of your wealth but I would prefer it more if you would assist me in helping me to learn how to achieve what you have achieved. 


And this may surprise you but by far the most of the whites were totally prepared to do just that. That is why we voted overwhelmingly yes in the 1983 referendum. The referendum that gave way to the Tricameral Parliament. 


That is also why we voted overwhelmingly yes in the 1992 referendum.  It was the whites that paved the way to the 1994 general elections. Not the blacks. We were all tired for the uncertainty and the animosity and the crap international position we were in. As you said elsewhere you vaguely remember. I clearly remember. I remember all the bad shit as well as the good. 


I started my national service in 1976. I was in the infantry. We had just finished our training and finished our final evaluations by the School of Infantry. We were in the bush at a place called Jumbo near Parys. We were tired and miserable but glad that all was over.  We performed a mock first light attack on an enemy base. We moved out into our positions at last light the previous night and set up our TBs and then it started to rain and we carried out the attack soaking wet, cold and bodies aching. We had no outside contact for two weeks. 


It was a Wednesday, the morning of 16 June 1976. We were taking our time, breaking up the camp. We knew that we were going on weekend pass on Friday. 


The next moment the corporals rushed in shouting to hurry up. We needed to get back to base in Potchefstroom ASAP. We learnt that there was trouble in Soweto. Our weekend passes were cancelled and we were put on five hour standby. That lasted for six weeks before we had our first weekend pass. There were sporadic unrest over the next years. 


In 1984 the civil unrest broke out on big scale again. I had a youngster in 1985 who worked in my garden. He was a good kid and I did a lot to help him wherever I could. He would arrive on a Saturday morning and I would ask him if they had had any school. He would tell me how they battled but how the police helped them to stay safe to attend classes but they did not have all their classes. He was already twenty years old, working his arse off to get his matric because he wanted to become a police man. At the end of the year he got his matric and I took him to the station commander at Cullinan and helped him enroll. He was a good young man and often came to thank me for the help and advice. There you have it. Your typical racist white Afrikaner. 


Do I believe that Apartheid was perfect? No ways. Was it as evil as most people would have you believe? I honestly don’t think so. There were many things that were good. Not perfect but good. 


Were mistakes made? Of course. Big ones. 


Could the 1976 uprisings have been prevented? Probably not. Reason being that something else would have popped up that would warrant an uprising. 


It was just that Andries Treurnicht provided the perfect catalyst for the start of the uprisings. It is a bit more complicated but in short, they complained about text books that weren’t delivered as promised. It reached the ears of PW Botha and he hauled Treurnicht over the coals. 


Treurnicht was pissed off and like a petulant child had text books delivered but he sent them Afrikaans text books. That was the trigger that the agitators were waiting for. 


Why am I telling you this? To try to indicate to you that everybody were sick and tired of the unsolved political situation. In the end it was the white electorate that took the leap. It was the whites who were willing to reach out. It was the whites who were willing to share,  and many have. Equally many people of colour grabbed the hands and started walking the path. Not all whites were bad. Not all white Afrikaners were or are racists. In fact, very few of us were/are. Many of us worked side by side with blacks for years. I have told you about my in laws’ farm. 


With this, I’m walking away from this argument because you are behaving like an insecure child. I’ve had enough. I have countered each and every argument and I have had much support for what I have have said on this thread. You have not managed to convince anybody that there is any merit in your pie in the sky idea of using IQ results as a benchmark for voter eligibility. 

SH
sharkbokCaptain23,209 posts
20 May 2020, 21:34
#156
20 May 2020, 21:34#156
So in summary, there had to be a way to avoid the one man, one vote. The day this happened, SA had the same chance of becoming another African basket case as most others. (Poverty, Corruption, Crime). 
Yet while African society fails, black individuals have shown all the attributes to excel in Modern society in countries around the world. So, how could these black people not be given fair opportunity without giving the mass vote? 
Other than to separate South Africa into different countries to ensure a non-black Democratic majority in white South Africa. I would have been happy to take all of the coastlines in SA from Capetown to Richards Bay up to say 200 miles inland, and perhaps Johannesburg. 

The question is why were Indian and coloured people not allowed to vote during Apartheid? I still say that the NP was to protect the white religious male Afrikaner from everyone else, not just blacks. 

If Indians and coloured had been allowed to vote during Apartheid, the NP could have been replaced with a more centre left-wing political party could have solved the problem over time. 
They could have tried a can-do approach, instead of trying to rule out any possibility such as IQ tests or related strategies to find and develop people with the most potential. Then develop a middle class over time. America used reading, which is a quick way of seeing who is capable of voting. 
Again, it may have always been doomed, but Apartheid and then handing over the keys certainly did not work. 

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
20 May 2020, 21:51
#157
20 May 2020, 21:51#157

OK. Just a few short final answers. Just to show that you have no foot to stand on. 

Also, I see you still prefer to duck and dive, rather than accept that your IQ idea was ludicrous. 

“  So in summary, there had to be a way to avoid the one man, one vote.“

No. It had to be one man one vote. Nothing more nothing less. 

“ Yet while African society fails, black individuals have shown all the attributes to excel in Modern society in countries around the world. So, how could these black people not be given fair opportunity without giving the mass vote?  “

In other modern societies blacks are not the majority, unnecessarily and illogically demanding protection from a minority, come hell or highwater. 

“  The question is why were Indian and coloured people not allowed to vote during Apartheid?“

They were. 

“  They could have tried a can-do approach, instead of trying to rule out any possibility such as IQ tests or related strategies to find and develop people with the most potential.  “

And there we go again. Back to the futile IQ experiment. 

Over and out. 

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
20 May 2020, 23:01
#158
20 May 2020, 23:01#158

Shark, there would be a thousand people arguing ten thousand solutions to achieve racial economic parity.

And let's assume that one or a combination of solutions is 100% successful. What then?

Will that economic equality persist? For it to do so, one has to assume that both cultures have values that, while not equal on individual standing, amount to a very similar trajectory when totalled up. If it doesn't, then those two lines will deviate over time and you'll have taken the long road to nowhere.

Unfortunately, that test has already been done. Sort of...

Take the UK as an example. Kids of all races have very similar opportunities and universities are very affordable. Even with a shitty salary, there are clear routes for one's kids to attend university if that is yours/their wish. I lived in both London and Oxford, so I'll talk from personal experience. I worked in the Oxford magistrates court for a while. Here's what I noticed.

A disproportionate amount of black kids would come through the doors every day.

Why? Are they more evil, dumber or criminal. No, none of the above. 

But let's assume we apply your IQ test strategy and say 50% of the population can be identified as having potential and then trained and taught all the tricks for having a successful career. Firstly there is still, and will always be the other 50%. That doomed half that probably would never pass your IQ requirement. Do we assume that the good half will drag the bad half across the line? Then, there's the "good" 50%  that remain, whom we now assume will agree to undertake a wonderful career with all the skills we've nurtured in them. That is a huge assumption. You only need to look at whites with plenty IQ and opportunity that amount to nothing as proof that skills don't equate to success. In my experience, with whites, holy shit I know many people that never progressed the way you're assuming people would once you separate the smart from the not so smart and give the good half better opportunities.

So even if you strike gold with 50%, that number will be whittled down by good old human nature once you arrive at outcome. And let's not forget that that they still live in communinities where they fall victim to all the ills that befall you "in da hood of the sub-fifty%ers".

Ok, so leave da hood, great. The hood ain't going nowhere though. It'll still be there tomorrow, next year...next decade. All you've achieved is removal of potential positive influences from areas where they're needed.

At best, I think your idea would work in combination with a group of other strategies, perhaps in identifying captains of industry and the like. The point being, spicy sauce may improve a meal but it ain't a meal on it's own. Not even close.

The meal, which the world is too politically correct to cook, is comprised of identifying clear common social and biological denominators across races and then being mature enough to implement strategies that combat the negative ones.

What those black kids in the Oxford magistrate's court mostly had in common was that they were, to some degree, less naturally able to plan ahead. Were they better planners, their risk assessment would be more acute, their empathy for their future selves would be greater and they'd more seriously consider the consequences of their actions on their loved ones.

I could be entirely wrong. 

But it does seem that different races have varying social strengths and weaknesses and it's likely best to address weaknesses directly because everybody benefits from that. Progress would be sustainable and measurable.

Using the USA as an example, I'll speculate and make a guess. Whichever group is performing the best academically is probably also the group with the highest suicide rate. I actually don't know if that's true but sticking my neck out relatively confidently on the basis of extrapolating the above in reverse. 

The group which does the best academically is the group with the strongest planning skills and who make, on average, greater sacrifices in the present for the future than other groups do. So, what would you do if you wanted to help reduce suicide rates in this group?

You have to correct for the overemphasising on planning ahead . 

Whereas one group will benefit from thinking more about tomorrow, another group would benefit from thinking more about today.

And neither of those are impossible tasks. Not in a practical sense. Politically...that's where the impassable roadblock sits. Because everyone is supposedly exactly the same and capable of exactly the same with the exact same input.

Wake me up when next a white guy wins the 100m gold at the Olympics


CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
21 May 2020, 10:19
#159
21 May 2020, 10:19#159

Very nicely put, Ceradyne.

I've just read your post for the third time. Your pride and passion as an Afrikaaner is wonderful to see. I have at least 50% boer blood in me. 

I forgot the brilliance of turning coal into fuel.

They had a need and came up with a solution. What a wonderful people the Afrikaaner is.

My grandfather used to tell me ... "n boer maak n plan" ... as always, he was right.

Turns out you're not a "dunce" as some may think.

Who knows ... we may still overcome these natives.

 



CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
21 May 2020, 10:57
#160
21 May 2020, 10:57#160

Thanks CC. 

Just to show how out of touch this guy is, check this:

“ The NP handed over the keys to the country. One day is way Apartheid, the next day it one man, one vote. (With a massive black majority). So much for a transition...


Their leader Mandela had just left jail for like 25 years. and the world community was supporting black people. 

No wonder they wanted to get rid of White people so quickly. If we were all born as black people in SA, chances are we would want to do the same.  “

This is what he is convinced happen, given that he was, by own admission, 16/17 years old and vaguely remembers.....

He has no idea how things panned out. Mandela’s release was planned long in advance. It started long before even FW de Klerk. When it started, it seemed to be happening very quick but it didn’t. De Klerk’s announcement was in Feb 90. Then the negotiations started in Kempton Park. The election only took place four years later.

In this fool’s mind, De Klerk called in Mandela one day, tossed him a set of keys and said: “There you go. This baby’s yours. Enjoy the ride, I’m out of here”.

↓ LOAD MORE (page 5 of 6)

More from Mikes Gripes