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FORUM / MIKES GRIPES /  So America bombed a Girls school killing 150+ in Iran?

So America bombed a Girls school killing 150+ in Iran?

Started by sharkbok310 REPLIES2,206 VIEWS· 07 Mar 2026, 15:55
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DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
09 Mar 2026, 13:02
#81
09 Mar 2026, 13:02#81

But honestly, the best outcome would have been avoiding this war in the first place and pushing much harder for negotiations before things escalated to this point

Very difficult to do this with someone.... especially when you catch them with previous plans that were meant for the creation and maintainence of a nuclear arsenal, including internal memos, photos and videos regarding the creation of an underground nuclear testing centre as well as the production of at least 5 nuclear warheads, of about 10 kilotons each, that were deliverable by ballistic missiles.....which they should never have been involved with.

All this clandestine behaviour from Iran was done whilst Iran was constantly trying to convince the rest of the world that their nuclear program was purely peaceful and had no military intentions or dimensions attached to it...

Good luck trusting your negotiations with someone like that

MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
09 Mar 2026, 13:31
#82
09 Mar 2026, 13:31#82

I agree on possible reasons that could explain why this war is happening now:


Trump doing his utmost in stopping the Epstein files from coming out, delaying the midterm elections, decades of Israel-Iran tensions, Trump joining not because he cares, but because he is greedy, and factors like land, power and oil.


These are all valid considerations, yet this gets ignored, while pretending there was no other way.


And the excuse about the school being close to a munitions site? That does not justify bombing it. By just following Trump blindly does not change the realities and consequences.


Soon we will be paying sky high prices for Petrol again, if this shit does not stop.


All this war is doing is making Iran just more determined to get Nuclear capabilities.


Would Trump and Isreal have considered attacking Iran if they had Nukes? Not a chance.

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
09 Mar 2026, 13:32
#83
09 Mar 2026, 13:32#83

According to the Pentagon, Iran will only have the ability to send a nuclear missile against the USA in the year 2035.


That's according to the Pentagon.


The Pentagon also says it knows of no military threat to the US prior to Bozo and Bibi going to war.


Rubio's current version is basically that the US had to pre-emptively launch a strike against Iran because of the possible reprisals from Iran . . . if they hadn't been bombed.


That is what Rubio is saying, right?

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
09 Mar 2026, 13:36
#84
09 Mar 2026, 13:36#84

Why is no-one talking about Bozo's boasts that he'd "obliterated" Iran's nuclear capability?


Here's what he said . . . watch the first few minutes:



So my question to the Trumpanzees, was Bozo lying in 2025 or is he lying now?


It can't be both.

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
09 Mar 2026, 13:40
#85
09 Mar 2026, 13:40#85

None of what you posted above is difficult to understand or illogical.


It's not difficult to understand it's just opinion.


Not only did the IAEA state Iran was in compliance with the deal, this was also the conclusions of both the US and European intelligence services.


I'm going to give them more weight to them than DA's opinion.


I honestly believe that the only two anti-Trumpers on this site that are capable of proving logical counter arguments to the current US action are Rooi and Stav.


You want a counter argument. Okay lets do a history lesson.


1953, the democratically elected government of Iran decides it's going to nationalize the countries oil industry. The British fearing for it's oil interests in the country decided they want to overthrow Iran's current ruler and enlisted America's aid in doing so, resulting in a coup d'état that installed the Shah as the ruler of Iran. The Shah turned out to be rather brutal and repressive dictator. His brutal reign lead to the 1979 revolution and the rise of the current regime in Iran.


So what was the long term consequences of Britain and the US's action's here. They set the conditions for the rise of current Iranian regime.


In 1980 the Iran-Iraq war started with Saddam Hussein attacking Iran justifying the war on the grounds that it would prevent Iran exporting it's revolution to Iraq.


Iraq was backed by the Soviet Union and the West who both wished for a counter balance to Iran in the region, the Iraqi invasion quickly stalls and they get pushed back with Iran launching a counter invasion which also stalls. The US started to ramp up its backing for Iraq from around 1982 onwards. Western companies were key in developing Iraq's chemical weapon program that was used against military and civilians Iranian targets alike, a fact that US administration of the time knew but chose to ignore at the time as it continued to back Iraq against what it perceived as the greater threat.


Long term consequences, the US and the west prevented an Iraqi collapse in the war and strengthened Iraq's military which then indirectly played a rolling in enabling Iraq's invasion of Kuwait. The Iraq WMD which the west had assisting in creating was largely destroyed by the end of 1991 but this wasn't really known at the time and the question of it's existence would play a key role in the 2003 Iraq War. The knowledge that the West both enabled and knew about Iraq's chemical weapon attacks on civilians during the Iran-Iraq war would undermine the notion of western moral superiority. Iran which had a peaceful nuclear program before the war viewed Iraq's chemical weapon attack's as a contributing reason why Iran needed nuclear weapon's capability.


Iraq War of 2003. Well we kinda of know what happened here. On the grounds that Iraq's WMD program posed a threat to the region and the world in general the US launched an invasion of Iraq. The US and its coalition partners easily kerb stomped Saddam's regime leading too it's quick toppling. It's what followed afterwards was the problem


Long term consequences. No WMD turned up, undermining the primary justification of war and damaged the wests reputation. Saddam's regime is toppled but the country would become extremely unstable over the next decade or, we had an 8 year insurgency against the coalition forces in Iraq, a civil war along Shia-Sunni sectarian grounds erupted in 2006, Al-Qaeda who weren't operating in Iraq before moved in. Then we got the rise of Islamic State and another war between 2013-2017, followed by another insurgency. All in all we ended up with causalities of around 275,000- 300,000 thousands, mostly civilians and over 1 million internally displaced people. And what happened once the American's withdrew, Iran gained a large degree of influence and control over Iraq. Another major long term consequence was the contributing role the Iraq war played in a rise of Islamic terrorism, primarily directed at Europe and the major contributing role the destabilisation of the region contributed to the migrant crisis that Europe faced a decade ago.


But it's not just America and the west that goofs up in the region. Israel's invasion of Lebanon in 1982 inadvertently contributed to the creation of Hezbollah.


Now why am I bringing these things up, well because it's so hard to predict how things will pan out long term with the present course of action.


Now the best case scenario, we might get a scenario were the US-Israeli attacks weaken the present Iranian regime enough for the people to overthrow it. We might end up with a new regime that's better for the people of Iran, that doesn't sponsor terrorism, isn't a threat to the region and is just in general more favourable to the west. But most consider this a long shot, because the Iranian Revolutionary Guard the backbone of the regime is considered to be about 200,000 strong. Hamas for example was considered somewhere between 20,000 and 40,000 strong and Israel during the length of it's campaign which was from both the ground and air could only destroy maybe half of them . Granted the US has greater capability than Israel, but can it realistically hope to degrade the IRGC and the regular army which is about an additional 340,000 strong in a country the size of Iran enough for the Iranian people to topple it.


If that's even possible how long would such a campaign take.


Lets look at another scenario, of which I'm not sure is very likely but maybe. But lets say the regular army largely switch sides and they are backed by most of the population and US airpower. We could hope the IRGC gives up and stops fighting, but given how hard-line they are, we then probably have a civil war. Okay maybe the IRGC loses, how long will it take, at what cost to the civilian population? How many causalities, do other factions get involved, how long before it stabilizes, will there be a long term insurgency etc etc.


What about the Kurds?

Well (A) shouldn't have America been talking to them before the start of the war.

(B) Don't the Kurds remember America abandoning them in Syria.

(C) The Kurds in Iraq/Iran are too small to seriously challenging the Iranian regime.

(D) Türkiye, Syria and Iraq's government will not tolerate Kurds getting involved.


What are other consequences are we already are looking at and potentially looking at. Well we have got all these attacks on the Gulf states and the closure of the Straights of Hormuz. Oh look oil has shot up to $100 dollars a barrel, with talk of it reaching $150 dollars if the war continues on till the end of March?


Who does that benefit, oh look it benefits Russia. And what's this the US have given India an exemption to buy Russia oil for a month and we have the US talking about lifting their sanctions on Russian oil. Yippie.


In addition to bottling up 20% of the world's oil/gas supply, the blocking of the Straights of Hormuz also cripples the global supplies of Helium needed for the operation of MRI machines, and sulphuric acid which is needed both in the creation of semi conductors and fertilizer.


So we can all look forward to massively higher energy costs, higher food costs and a notably rise inflation. Can't wait to see how that plays out in the mid terms. But hey at least Trump was smart enough to refill the American strategic energy reserves after Biden drew it down after the start of the Russia Ukraine War. I mean who would be so stupid not to refill the reserves before starting a war a war that triggers a massive rise in the cost of purchasing energy, not our Donald no siree, there is absolutely no way...oh wait..oh...oh...oh never mind. Whoospie. Well at least the US had a plan to get it's civilians out of the middle east..oh oh..oh.


Staying in the Middle East and the attack on the Gulf States who have said the damage to some of its energy production facilities will take many weeks if months to repair are also now concerned that soon they will reach max storage capacity which will force them to shut down production facilities which will be expensive and time consuming process to reverse. We have data centres being attacked which opens up questions about long term viability of building data centres and the like in the Middle East, we have the whole question of whether this will damage many Gulf states long term ability to attract the immigrants workforce and rich migrants which some have built their economies around. And then we have the question will the Gulf states get directly involved in the war and if they do so should be worried about some of the Gulf states tendencies to be somewhat less than concerned about the rule of law when it comes to military action.


What else have we got, oh we have Zelensky (who what do you know has some cards) offering to send assistance to the Gulf states in dealing with drone attacks. Meanwhile Trump criticizes Zelensky for being an obstacle to peace in Ukraine and that Putin is ready for a deal, WHILE RUSSIA PROVIDE'S IRAN WITH F**KING INTELLIGENCE TO TARGET AMERICAN TROOPS. You couldn't make make this shit up.


Okay so not only is this war a massive boon for Russia's economy. It saps European political bandwidth and resources away from the Ukraine conflict. I'm seeing all these missile's defence systems being used to protect the Gulf states and Israel and I'm thinking how I wish they were being used in Ukraine's defence instead of wasted in this stupid war of choice (Yes Witkoff you twat this is what you a call a stupid war, not Ukraine defending itself)


What other wonderful gift may this war bestow on Europe other than higher inflation. Perhaps we could another surge of Islamic terrorism or we get another wave of refugees fleeing the Middle East. Oh Yippie. Oh what's this Trump is threatening Spain with cutting off trade with the US (the US had a trade surplus with Spain), oh wonderful another trade spat between the US and Europe.


Anything else we could criticize this war for. Well polling shows that most of the America population is against this war, a majority of Democrats and Independents as well as 20% of Republicans. How is Trump's base supposed to square this, he promised them no more wars. This flies directly in the fact of that and it's going hurt the American economy. Of course it's not just American's against this war, it's most of the planet.


Then we have the further undermining of international law. Another indication that might makes right and the the almost total collapse of any sort of morale authority the west and the supposed rules based order was supposed to have. We also have another example of how America simply can't be trusted. Broke it's deal with Iran and bombed them twice while in negotiations with them.


Meanwhile China sitting back, just counting the US running down it's missile defence stock's might be thinking hmmm Taiwan never looked more tempting. Talk of removing missile defence systems from South Korea as well, sure the South Korean's are ecstatic.


But yeah all in all this is a well thought out cunning strategy by Donald Trump. Nothing could possibly could go wrong right?






PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
09 Mar 2026, 14:43
#86
09 Mar 2026, 14:43#86

M


Brent price dropped from $116 to $103 since 04:00 this morning.


I wouldn't bank on the Brent price remaining elevated.


And yeah, I agree that there are ulterior motives for this. Though I wouldn't call them ulterior motives so much as mutualistic ones.


The US wants to deprive China of oil. They started by cutting Venezuela out and now they're removing Iranian oil from the Chinese chess board.


I don't believe as you do that the every single motive the US has is driven by evil intentions. That's why I brought up altruism. Nobody does anything for nothing. I think they do want to remove the Iranian regime because it is, next to North Korea, the most evil one in existence by some distance. But I think that sticking it to China, particularly now when China's real estate market is collapsing, was a contributing factor in their decision to pull the trigger now.


Germany, have come out and said that they are 100% behind the US on this...for whatever that is worth.


As Rooi says, who knows when or how this will end. Hopefully quickly. Anyway, Trump won't have the support for this to carry on for very long.







DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
09 Mar 2026, 14:49
#87
09 Mar 2026, 14:49#87

I'm going to give them more weight to them than DA's opinion

I am not only talking about the ridiculous deal that was put in place with Iran..... I am specifically talking about what Iran was doing behind the scenes, before this deal was even made, which only came out after this deal was made....

Iran portrayed a completely different image and stance to the rest of the world during this time and the truth finally came out........and if you don't agree with that statement, I am all ears

So...you believe that Iran was completely above board from the 90's and 00's regarding their nuclear ambitions and practices.....

Also, are you denying that Iran did not deliberately go out of their way to go ahead with their own clandestine and undercover nuclear weapons program, whilst at the same time telling the entire world that they were only seeking nuclear options for non-warfare usage.

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
09 Mar 2026, 15:04
#88
09 Mar 2026, 15:04#88

he promised them no more wars. This flies directly in the fact of that and it's going hurt the American economy

Yeah, well I reckon Trump and his close advisors would very well know how that decision to go to war would heavily and negatively affect his standing with the voters, but he went ahead with it anyway..... I can only assume for good reason.

I am sure you know as well that with the amount of classified information coming across that oval desk every single morning, there are guaranteed to be quite a lot of things that Trump says he is not going to do in the beginning, but he ends up doing it anyway due to the daily flows of information he receives which could drastically affect or harm the US or one of it's allies.

President's change their mind all the time.....it reminds me of just how many times Biden promised the world over and over again that he would never ever pardon his son Hunter......and resolutely told the world that his son Hunter must face the law just like any other American citizen.... but then he pardoned him just before leaving office...

At least with Hunter, we knew what happened to a certain degree, and it was covered up..... with Iran, that's a whole other story.


MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
09 Mar 2026, 15:22
#89
09 Mar 2026, 15:22#89

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DUMJFG5jKWv/?igsh=cnowOWtjYTE4ZWE4


https://www.instagram.com/reel/DVmBEJFCRxc/?igsh=dTh4M2t5ZTlnb2pz


https://www.instagram.com/reel/DVd-1txgEHP/?igsh=ZXhpY25lYmV4NDA2



Can you guys watch?

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
09 Mar 2026, 15:46
#90
09 Mar 2026, 15:46#90

I agree with Piers, she should be ashamed, saying it's irrelevant

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
09 Mar 2026, 16:13
#91
09 Mar 2026, 16:13#91

Germany, have come out and said that they are 100% behind the US on this...for whatever that is worth.


I wouldn't call questioning the legality of the strike and expressing concern over what comes next as 100% behind the US.


Also, are you denying that Iran did not deliberately go out of their way to go ahead with their own clandestine and undercover nuclear weapons program, whilst at the same time telling the entire world that they were only seeking nuclear options for non-warfare usage.


No one is questioning that Iran didn't have a nuclear program and had lied about enrichment levels. But no evidence has ever been presented by anyone that suggested Iran's leaders had ever taken the decision to build nuclear weapons, an assessment once again supported by the IAEA, US and western intelligence services.


I am sure you know as well that with the amount of classified information coming across that oval desk every single morning, there are guaranteed to be quite a lot of things that Trump says he is not going to do in the beginning, but he ends up doing it anyway due to the daily flows of information he receives which could drastically affect or harm the US or one of it's allies.


No more wars was a major part of his election campaign. One can understand if America was attacked or had credible intelligence Iran was an imminent threat but so far intelligence has been provided to congress or relevant committee. In fact also have reports from private briefings to congress members US intelligence indicated no immediate threat from Iran. The public messaging so far has been widely inconsistent as well. This seems like a war or choice or opportunity, the exact thing MAGA was supposed to be against.


President's change their mind all the time.....it reminds me of just how many times Biden promised the world over and over again that he would never ever pardon his son Hunter......and resolutely told the world that his son Hunter must face the law just like any other American citizen.... but then he pardoned him just before leaving office...

At least with Hunter, we knew what happened to a certain degree, and it was covered up..... with Iran, that's a whole other story.


As I've stated before Biden pardoning Hunter was wrong and I in no way supported it but it's not in the same ballpark of wrongness as Trump starting an unprovoked military campaign that could have serious long term repercussions for the entire planet. Hunter Biden getting off Scot free is annoying, this Iran war is getting people killed and could cause a global recession.




SH
sharkbokCaptain20,097 posts
09 Mar 2026, 16:15
#92
09 Mar 2026, 16:15#92

Devil's Advocate

Rugby Legend

6,869 posts

Mar 09, 2026, 14:49



I'm going to give them more weight to them than DA's opinion

------------------

So am I.


It does seem as though the nuclear agreement was adhered to until Trump ended it.


Stav has provided substantial background information to support his argument, yet DA provides only bits and pieces- I dont see any proof that the allegations are correct.


-------------

At this point, the main pressure on Trump is him tanking the global markets due to a ridicloous increase in energy pricing.

It may be that Trump planned for it to be a short operation, but the rest of the world expected otherwise.


SH
sharkbokCaptain20,097 posts
09 Mar 2026, 16:16
#93
09 Mar 2026, 16:16#93

Several major attacks against or inside Iran have failed to achieve their main military or political objectives, often for a mix of operational, geographic, and political reasons.


Iran is a very mountainous country, and the cost of taking it over a long war would be too high.


Key failed or frustrated attacks


  1. Operation Eagle Claw (U.S., 1980) – The U.S. special?operations mission to rescue American hostages in Tehran was aborted in the Iranian desert after helicopters were damaged and disabled by sandstorms and mechanical failures, leading to a deadly collision at the staging site and complete mission failure. Analysts point to poor inter?service coordination, over?complex planning, inadequate rehearsal, and weak joint command structures as core reasons the operation collapsed.


  1. Iraqi invasion of Iran (1980 initial offensive) – Iraq’s initial blitz to seize territory and quickly force Tehran into a favorable settlement stalled, and Baghdad failed in its primary objective of compelling Iran to accept a dictated peace or collapse the Islamic Republic. Iran absorbed the attack, reorganized, and even shifted parts of its oil export infrastructure to blunt Iraqi air pressure, preventing the economic strangulation Iraq had counted on.


  1. Later Iraqi pressure campaigns in the Iran–Iraq War – Repeated Iraqi efforts to bomb runways, oil terminals, and economic targets to coerce Iran into a ceasefire degraded Iran’s economy but did not break its political will or force capitulation. Iran mitigated damage by rapid runway repair and by targeting Iraqi economic chokepoints in turn, keeping enough military and economic capacity to continue the war.
  2. Israeli strikes and covert action against Iran (2020s) – Israeli operations have damaged parts of Iran’s missile and nuclear infrastructure, but Iran’s regime, core missile force, and nuclear know?how remained intact, so the broader goal of decisively “decapitating” Iran’s strategic capabilities failed. Iran retained enough missile capacity to strike back, projected an image of having survived a concentrated assault, and was still able to manage escalation rather than being strategically neutralized.

Main reasons these attacks failed

  1. Overambitious political objectives – Attacking states often aimed not just to hit a site but to change Iran’s behavior or collapse its regime; Iran’s political system and security apparatus have repeatedly shown high tolerance for damage and casualties, so tactical success rarely translated into strategic victory.
  2. Underestimating Iran’s resilience and adaptation – Iraq underestimated Iran’s willingness to mobilize, fight a long war, and reconfigure its economy and logistics (for example, shifting export points) to blunt pressure. Similarly, external strikes on nuclear and missile assets tended to set Iran back temporarily but not eliminate its capability to rebuild.
  3. Operational and logistical complexity – Eagle Claw involved long?range helicopter flights, desert refueling, urban assault, and extraction under highly constrained conditions, leaving almost no margin for weather, mechanical issues, or coordination failures. The lack of mature joint command structures and robust contingency planning meant that relatively few failures quickly cascaded into mission abort.
  4. Geography, climate, and distance – Iran’s size, deserts, and weather (including sandstorms) complicate long?range raids and air operations, especially for forces operating from distant bases or carriers. These factors increase mechanical stress and navigation difficulty, raising the odds that complex attacks will degrade or fail en route.
  5. Effective Iranian air defense and dispersal – Even when Israeli forces or others achieved air superiority in specific windows, Iran relied on hardened, underground, and dispersed facilities that limited permanent damage. This defensive posture, plus redundant sites, meant that destroying some launchers or research facilities did not remove Iran’s strategic capabilities.
  6. International and escalation constraints – External attackers had to balance military goals against the risk of wider war and diplomatic blowback, which often limited the scale or duration of operations against Iran. Iran exploited this by portraying itself as a victim of aggression, gaining some political capital and reducing incentives for sustained campaigns aimed at regime change.
  7. Learning and institutional change in Iran – Over time, Iran’s military and security services have studied past attacks and adapted doctrine, dispersal, and retaliation strategies, making later attacks less likely to achieve surprise or decisive effects. This iterative learning cycle helps explain why similar strategies that might work once rarely deliver decisive outcomes against Iran more than briefly.


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Mar 2026, 16:21
#94
09 Mar 2026, 16:21#94

Plum


The Nuclear Arms treaty wih Iran was a farce asscoated with bribery and corruption involvnm g Obama, Biden and Clinton collaborating wth Iran from the word go.


The fake treaty allowed for monitorng - but that never materialized, All the monitoring that was allowed were closed down and th actua; enroch,ent proramss ere moved to army bases a nd even underground laborities where inspectuions never happened,


When it csme to foreign affairs Obama was a total disaster for the USA. He got the Nobel Peace Prize for "snding the Iraq War. In 2012 ISIS popped up in the Civil War in Syria and by 2016 80% of Iraq - excluding Kurdistan and an a rea aound Baghdad was occupied, Obama wanted o start a process to protect Iraq from ISIS and sent 200 military advisorsand instructors to Iraq with a warning to them not to et invovled in any battles against ISIS, All that happened was that when ISIS approached any Iraq city and twon - the Iraq army fled and elft all their equipment behind for use by ISIS. It was just another Obama farce.


When Tump became President his first i sntruction was for the US Army to clear i sis out of Iraq and Northern Syria - the job was completed in3 months time and the meda moaned about how goood a family man he ISIS leader wasa nd that he did no seserve to be killed by Trump's insgtruction. The US army bases was in Irq until January this year.


Fact is hat when Solemeine - the head of terrorist activities of Iran World ide - the same moans went up in the emdia - it wa a breach of human right to ill he miurderer, When Obama ordered the killing of Osama Bin-Laden in Pakistan it es not a cri me against humanity and against International law - hen Trump did the sam thing s he was cricified asa murderer,


Now back to another fuck-up of Obama that caused a Civil War in Ukraine and morhed nto the present Ukraine War. In 2013 there was a Presidential election in Ukraine mo notired by the EU countries, The elected prsident was not acceptabe to the USA Government. USA Proxies employed by the CIA organized protests in Kiev starting in September 2013, Brennan - the then head of the CIA in the epriod Sptember 2013 to January 2014 travelled to Kiev four times and delivering the money to fund he protests in Kiev. The iev G overnment did not use any arms against the protestors - but there was a new Angle and that was for suaing an ultra-Russian hating organization called the Azov battlion to shoot the Police,


The objectove of the oi;egally replacement Government had a policy to eliminate all Russian speaking people - 30% of he Ukraine populaion from Ukraine. The Policy was the people who refuse to change their home language to Ukrainian would be emininated from Eastern Ukraine though ethnic cleansing, The end result was a civil war in Ukraine funded by the USA - a wonderdul program with amssive levells of crruption was entailed, THe FBI knew about the coprruption but refsued to investigate it. While Trump was Pesidet - the Civil War in Ukraine was not a major policy situation. Only 14 000 Russian speaking civilians in Eastern Ukraine by the Azov Batallion.


In October 2021 Boden and Putin met in Geneva and Putin asked Biden to arrange a peace cnmference to stop the Civil War, One enver knows whether Biden was clearly in charge in Washington becaue he was mentally a wreck. He aparen tly mumbled that he would ask Blinken - the nit-wit Secretary of State Blinken to arrnge such a conference - but never took place, ,


In 2019 there was a Presidena elecgtion in Ukraine. The itting president got 31% of the vote and Zelenskyy 29$ of the vote. In the second round of the voting Zelenskyy .promised the voters he ould end te covil war in Eastern Ukraine through negotiation. Zelenskyy soon found out that corruption in both Kiev and Washingtonm was profitable to both sides and nhe had no power to sop the CVivil War. Corruption n both Washington and Kiev prevented any peace talks,


Macron got both Putin and Zelenskyy to sign a peaceful settlement in the two weeks before the Russians invaded Ukraine in february 2022. The USA Govrnment would have none with it and in the week before he actual invation took place the Ukrine G overnment ad all Russian speaking members of the Ukraine Prliamnt and only 3 of those were released by the Zelenskyy Government, The rest is still missing - presumably dead, '


In April 2022 the Turkish G pvernment arrnaged cese fire talks in Istanbul, The aks were dicey and the one condition that would allow for talks was that the Russian A rmy threatening Kiev must withdraw from Ukraine , The withdrawal was implmented and the talks proceeded. A fter four days of negotiation a ceasefore agreement was reached, When that became clear Blinken phoned the Ukraine Foreign Minister to leave Istanbul that day and not to intiial any draft settlement.


It was clear that the Biden A dministration wants the War to continue, Trump's ffrts to end teh Uraine War was constantly underminefd by media reorts and a reluctance on the part of Putin to endorse a ec eful settlement, Corruption in both the USA and Ukraine fed the war,


Is there a way the war in Ukraine woul end,



.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Mar 2026, 16:33
#95
09 Mar 2026, 16:33#95

Still waiting for a solution to Iran and hopefully one that doesn’t contradict what the same posters want to do in Russia. C’ mon lads scan your favorite talking heads and give us a solution that has a chance of working and brings peace to the ME and Ukraine.

SH
sharkbokCaptain20,097 posts
09 Mar 2026, 16:46
#96
09 Mar 2026, 16:46#96

If you list all of the possible solutions, there are only 2 possible solutions.


  1. A peace deal (A short-term end to the war).
  2. A long-term war that bombs Iran into submission. It will progress into ethnic cleansing.


Option 2 is not really an option, so there is only one option. That would bring us back to square one - the Obama deal.


What exactly will have been achieved?

America, at least, had some moral authority on the Obama deal. Now America is the bad guy, no better than Iran. Bombing schools and dismissing it as collateral damage.


That leaves America worse off than it was before Trump ended the Obama deal.

MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
09 Mar 2026, 16:46
#97
09 Mar 2026, 16:46#97

I’ve been reading quite a few articles and saw a video about this, and I don’t know if it’s true, but there are rumors that Israel’s Prime Minister Netanyahu has real evidence or incriminating video footage on Donald Trump in connection with the Epstein scandal.


Apparently Jeffrey Epstein was an Israeli agent. If this is true, they have Trump by the Balls.

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
09 Mar 2026, 16:54
#98
09 Mar 2026, 16:54#98

No one is questioning that Iran didn't have a nuclear program and had lied about enrichment levels. But no evidence has ever been presented by anyone that suggested Iran's leaders had ever taken the decision to build nuclear weapons, an assessment once again supported by the IAEA, US and western intelligence services.

But you still think Trump was wrong to pull out the deal.....even after what came to light in 2018 when 100 000 documents were stolen from Iran which proved they were lying all along about what they were wanting to do.

No more wars was a major part of his election campaign. One can understand if America was attacked or had credible intelligence Iran was an imminent threat but so far intelligence has been provided to congress or relevant committee. In fact also have reports from private briefings to congress members US intelligence indicated no immediate threat from Iran. The public messaging so far has been widely inconsistent as well. This seems like a war or choice or opportunity, the exact thing MAGA was supposed to be against.

Well, let's see what come out of this

but it's not in the same ballpark of wrongness as Trump starting an unprovoked military campaign that could have serious long term repercussions for the entire planet

I am not saying it is at all..... all I am saying though.... is that Biden knew behind the scenes that his son was in deep shit.... so he changed his mind...... Trump might have top secret valid classified information that the US or one of it's allies were in serious shit, so he also changed his mind..... we will never know.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Mar 2026, 16:56
#99
09 Mar 2026, 16:56#99

So we leave a country abusing 70% of its voters and sponsoring terrorism in place and call that a moral solution. In the meantime we prepare to send French troops to fight Russia. Got it.

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
09 Mar 2026, 17:02
#100
09 Mar 2026, 17:02#100

Stav has provided substantial background information to support his argument, yet DA provides only bits and pieces- I dont see any proof that the allegations are correct.

I don't need to ..... Israel have already provided that proof on national TV, which was one of the main reasons why Trump backed out of the nuclear deal with Iran.

Just Google "Nuclear Archive" or "Atomic Archive" which Israeli Mossad agents stole from Iran in a covert operation on the 31st January 2018.

This resulted in 55 000 pages of information and almost 183 000 files like photos, videos and nuclear plans on 163 cd's that were shown on national TV.

If you want to continue having a nuclear deal in place with someone like that, especially someone who kept and archived all those nuclear plans......you are delusional.

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
09 Mar 2026, 17:06
#101
09 Mar 2026, 17:06#101

Still waiting for a solution to Iran and hopefully one that doesn’t contradict what the same posters want to do in Russia.


Diplomacy, you know the thing that worked before with Iran before Trump sabotaged it. And none of this 47 years with no results tripe please. Trump and the American right wing might argue the deal was bad, but had the US upheld their side of the deal it could built up trust between the two sides and been the basis for a future more more comprehensive deal.


It's also not a contradiction with Ukraine because it's not a comparable war. Russia invaded Ukraine unprovoked, it's an active war and Putin has shown no signs of negotiating in good faith. Iran is the other way round, it came to deal in a past, America broke the deal, and twice in negotiations to either end a war (which Iran didn't start) or negotiate on it's nuclear program, it's been attacked mid negotiations. Well maybe after that there is now no chance of diplomacy.


give us a solution that has a chance of working and brings peace to the ME and Ukraine.


Right after you give us a solution to Sudan, the Sahel, Myanmar and North Korea. Actually prey tell what is the solution for Iran because no one seems to know what the US plan is? Israel probably just wants to do as much damage to Iran's military and the regime as it can.


We have various wars and repressive despotic regimes around the world, is the solution to bomb the shit out of all of them?


Why is Iran the "lucky one" to be chosen over say Sudan?


And why now, what was the urgency because as far the rest of the world is concerned Iran was no imminent threat.


Here's the thing, had the negotiation's stayed going till now, would anyone on here have felt compelled of to come on here of their own accord and say you know I feel we need to act against Iran right now. No it would just be background noise, you wouldn't be spending any significant time thinking about Iran. But because Trump's done it, you now fall into line, oh yeah it had to be done now.


But let's argue just for a moment that the talking heads have no solution, is the status quo worse than what we risk now?. We don't actually know if Iran would make the decision to build a nuclear bomb, and if the did the west would probably know about it before it's complete and could take steps to intervene then, in a co-ordinated and legal under international law actions. Hell even if Iran made the decision to build a nuke and then succeeded in doing so, we can't say for certain they would of proactively used it, they might have just sat on it to prevent the US and Israel doing exactly what they are doing now. Yes the regime is fanatical but they are supposed to be on the side of getting Palestine it's lands back, how would nuking what they view as Palestinian territory square with that, never mind the fact it would be absolutely suicidal on their part.

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
09 Mar 2026, 17:18
#102
09 Mar 2026, 17:18#102

But you still think Trump was wrong to pull out the deal.....even after what came to light in 2018 when 100 000 documents were stolen from Iran which proved they were lying all along about what they were wanting to do.


Yes because the document trove uncovered by Israel was about Iran's nuclear weapon's program up to 2003 and it didn't change the fundamental points that Iran was not developing a nuclear weapon in 2018, it did not show a current nuclear weaponization program or contradict intelligence reports that Iran had not made a decision to build a nuclear bomb.


If you want to continue having a nuclear deal in place with someone like that, especially someone who kept and archived all those nuclear plans......you are delusional.


You aware Sweden had a clandestine nuclear program in the 60's, they managed to keep secret. Had mostly built a nuclear bomb, could have completed one within 6 months if they wanted too. This existence of the program was only gradually disclosed during the 1980's. No one seems to have any issue with concluding deals with Sweden.


So we leave a country abusing 70% of its voters and sponsoring terrorism in place and call that a moral solution. In the meantime we prepare to send French troops to fight Russia. Got it.


Same argument could of been made about Iraq. Same argument could be made now about North Korea. But lets circle back to the moral solution of removing the leader of Venezuela and his wife, but leaving the same brutally repressive regime in place while ignoring the the people who are actually believed to have won the last democratic election. Because the moral solution is leave the status quo in place just give America a cut.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Mar 2026, 17:35
#103
09 Mar 2026, 17:35#103

It is unbelievable BS resding the above, Letstake into account the following as n example:-


de about Iraq. Same argument could be made now about North Korea. But lets circle back to the moral solution of removing the leader of Venezuela and his wife, but leaving the same brutally repressive regime in place while ignoring the the people who are actually believed to have won the last democratic election.


The above is total garbage, The same regime was never left in place. The move is to get democracy restored in Venezuela and the Deputy President took over the Presidency emporarily till a new election is held,


Just a question - where did you get tht garbage from?

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
09 Mar 2026, 17:43
#104
09 Mar 2026, 17:43#104

The above is total garbage, The same regime was never left in place. The move is to get democracy restored in Venezuela and the Deputy President took over the Presidency emporarily till a new election is held,


Way to contradict yourself in just two sentences Mike. And when can we expect this election?


Just a question - where did you get tht garbage from?


Reality Mike.




MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
09 Mar 2026, 18:09
#105
09 Mar 2026, 18:09#105

1. No UN Authorization – Under the United Nations Charter, using force against another country is only legal in two cases: self-defense (Article 51) or if the UN Security Council explicitly authorizes it. If Trump and Israel acted without either, it violates international law.


2. Violation of Sovereignty – Invading or attacking another nation without provocation breaches the principle of state sovereignty, which is a core tenet of international law.


3. No Declaration of War / Domestic Law – In the U.S., the Constitution requires Congress to declare war. If military action is taken without Congressional approval, it can be seen as illegal under U.S. law.


4. Targeting Civilians / Proportionality – International humanitarian law (Geneva Conventions) prohibits attacks that intentionally or recklessly harm civilians.


Bombing schools, hospitals, or non-military targets makes the war not just immoral but illegal.


Moz, have you considered that what you’re backing here is an illegal war?


Taking every statement from this commander-in-chief at face value, while the U.S. appears to be following Israel’s lead on Iran, may not be the wisest approach.


Israel wanted confrontation with Iran and couldn’t do it alone, so here we are. Instead of repeating Trump and Israel’s plan, why not suggest a solution that might actually reduce the conflict and casualties?


History shows this won’t end well. Are you really going to keep backing it?

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
09 Mar 2026, 18:15
#106
09 Mar 2026, 18:15#106

"Reality Mike."


Unfortunately, reality is a concept that ou Maaik is not very familiar with.


I see more of the same . . . Trumpanzees demanding that the only country to have ever used nuclear weapons on another country be the only country with this capability.


Trumpanzees are as brainwashed as the Iranians who believe their Supreme Leader has their interests at heart.



MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
09 Mar 2026, 18:34
#107
09 Mar 2026, 18:34#107

Is Trump Jewish now? This shit is weird man...


https://youtube.com/shorts/yzs4jxpyT5M?si=OR361ZqqiFUazocH

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
09 Mar 2026, 19:43
#108
09 Mar 2026, 19:43#108

Well, while an analysis of the Drumpf geneology might turn up a surprise or two, Bozo is controlled by the Jewish people . . . if anyone has any control over this narcissistic fool . . . and it's absolutely no surprise to me that his staunchest ally is Bibi.


Bozo is good for Israel.


Bozo is also good for Russia . . . as gas quickly replaces oil as the energy source of choice.


Bozo is also good for China . . . as he continues to insult Europe and drive previous economic partners to new alternatives.


Bozo is just not good for everyone else.


So much winning!


LMAO!


If you still haven't seen through this clown then you deserve to be a Trumpanzee.


That's all I can say.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Mar 2026, 20:02
#109
09 Mar 2026, 20:02#109

Good point about the UN …M power. Iran should be the kind of issue the UN resolves. It’s the kind of misconduct the UN was formed to address as a unified group of nations.


But the UN does nothing. So what’s the solution?

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Mar 2026, 20:10
#110
09 Mar 2026, 20:10#110

Because the moral solution is leave the status quo in place just give America a cut.


Okay I’ll bite. Tell us where the US took any of a country’s assets without paying market price. Or if you prefer, tell us which war the US has engaged in that resulted in a profit to the country.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Mar 2026, 20:13
#111
09 Mar 2026, 20:13#111

For the anti US posters on this string who may not have seen this:



We have already established the US is paying $100 billion a year in 2025 dollars for strictly European defense. And has taken on this burden since WW2 for 80 years. In the absence of a deep search to establish the number for each year, let’s assume it’s $100 billion in 2026 dollars.


If those numbers were in actual dollars and invested they would increase at a rate reflecting inflation and a real return. To simplify we assume the rate of inflation at 3.6% and a starting equivalent of $5.9 billion, the inflation adjusted number for $100 billion today.


So if the US chose to invest the money it spent on Europe the $ 5.9 billion a year would grow at 3.6% plus a real growth number. Let’s pick 4% as a reasonable real growth.

So rather than nothing the US could now have the cumulative value of $5.9 billion invested inflated at a rate of 3.6% to keep up with inflation.


If the US made those inflation adjusted payments this is the result:


If something cost:

  1. $5.9B in 1945
  2. Rising with inflation at 3.6%

Then over 1945–2025 the cumulative equivalent spending would total:

? $2.7 trillion

with a 2025 annual equivalent of about $100–105B/year


Magically the formula produces exactly the amount the US is providing in 2025 for all European defense.


But of course if it didn’t give all that money to Europe it could have been invested …..let’s say at a real return (return above inflation) of 4%. Here’s the value of the reinvested European defense money, reinvested at 4%.


? ? $9.5 trillion (value in 2025)

If payments starting at $5.9B in 1945 and rising 3.6% annually were invested at 4%,

the cumulative value by 2025 would be roughly:

$9–9.5 trillion


But one wonders, what the resulting number have been if those funds had simply been reinvested at the real (after inflation) growth of the US stock market between those years.




What would that be? This is Chat’s conclusion:


Clean SummaryTypeAnnual Growth 1945–2025
Price appreciation only~7.5%Total return (dividends reinvested)~10–11%Real (after inflation)~7%

Chat estimates the real rate of growth at 7%, achievable by simply investing funds given to Europe in the broadest basket of American companies.


Now suppose we go back to the model and use the attainable 7% real investment rate for the funds diverted from European defense. What would that number be? Here is your answer:


Final Answer

? ? $38–39 trillion (in 2025 dollars)


And it’s a stunner. By simply diverting US tax payer dollars from European defense into investments in the S&P 500, the US would now have $38 trillion dollars


You fuckers owe us $38 trillion of gratitude.


And magically again, there is this:


As of late 2025 and early 2026, the U.S. national debt has surpassed

$38 trillion. This amount represents the total outstanding borrowing by the federal government, with a debt-to-GDP ratio exceeding 120%. The debt has grown significantly due to a structural imbalance between federal spending and revenue.


If we had simply left Europe to pay for all of it’s own exclusive defense, rather than sharing about a quarter of that burden, and invested those funds in our own companies…..THE WHOLE US NATIONAL DEBT WOULD BE WIPED OUT.


ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
09 Mar 2026, 20:39
#112
09 Mar 2026, 20:39#112

For the anti US posters on this string who may not have seen this:


You know I could post this tripe into Chat and say please debunk it and past the results here but lets not clog up the thread with a copy paste debate from A.I sources.


How about you for once try to actually stick to the topic being debated again instead of shrieking about the terrible Europeans. What is the US plan, what is the likelihood of it succeeding, is that outcome worth the risk?

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Mar 2026, 20:56
#113
09 Mar 2026, 20:56#113

You know I could post this tripe into Chat and say please debunk it and past the results here but lets not clog up the thread with a copy paste debate from A.I sources.



How about you for once try to actually stick to the topic being debated again instead of shrieking about the terrible Europeans



I only used Chat to do the calculation: here’s the premise.


1 We are providing $100 billion in 2026 ….just for strictly European defense.


2 If we deflate that to 1945 we get a number of $5.9 billion. It was undoubtedly higher because of WW2.


3 Assume that $5.9 billion is inflated to reach $100 billion in 2025.


4 Now take that resulting flow of payments and invest it instead in the US stock market. Conservatively I use the real rate of return, including dividend reinvestment. I should use the actual rate of return, which would give even a higher number.


Now all we have left is to calculate what that would produce in total dollars by 2025. That number is $38 trillion. That’s the gift.


Now go ahead prove it’s tripe.

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
09 Mar 2026, 21:21
#114
09 Mar 2026, 21:21#114

Fine here is the A.I debunk


1. The starting premise ($100B/year for “strictly European defense”) is false

The claim assumes the U.S. has been spending $100B per year solely to defend Europe for 80 years.

That is not accurate.

Most U.S. military spending in Europe historically funded:

  1. Global U.S. force projection
  2. U.S. nuclear deterrence
  3. U.S. bases and logistics
  4. Operations in the Middle East, Africa, and Asia
  5. Training and interoperability

For example, during the Cold War, U.S. forces in Europe were primarily there to deter the Soviet Union — which was a direct U.S. strategic interest, not a charity project for Europe.

Even today:

  1. Total U.S. defense spending ? $850–900B/year
  2. U.S. European Command costs are only a small fraction of that
  3. Many costs counted as “Europe defense” are actually U.S. global capabilities

In other words:

The U.S. did not spend $100B per year purely for Europe.

2. The U.S. gained massive economic benefits from defending Europe

The argument treats defense spending like money given away.

But the spending helped create the modern global economic system.

Key results of U.S. security guarantees:

  1. Reconstruction via the Marshall Plan
  2. Creation of NATO
  3. Stabilization of Western Europe
  4. Expansion of global trade

That stability helped produce:

  1. The modern transatlantic economy
  2. Huge export markets for U.S. companies
  3. Dollar dominance
  4. Financial leadership of International Monetary Fund and World Bank

Today:

  1. The European Union is one of the largest markets for U.S. exports
  2. Millions of American jobs depend on U.S.–Europe trade

So the spending was partly an investment in a stable global market system that benefits the U.S. economy.

3. The compound-interest model is economically meaningless

The argument says:

If the U.S. invested the money instead, it would be worth $38T.

This logic is flawed because:

Government budgets don’t work like investment funds

If the U.S. didn’t spend money on defense, it would likely:

  1. cut taxes
  2. spend elsewhere
  3. reduce deficits
  4. increase domestic programs

It would not automatically invest hundreds of billions annually in the S&P 500.

No government operates like that.

4. The “7% real return forever” assumption is unrealistic

The claim uses ~7% real return from the S&P 500.

But that assumes:

  1. perfect market timing
  2. uninterrupted investing
  3. no political changes
  4. no economic shocks
  5. the U.S. government holding trillions in equities

That scenario is unrealistic.

Also:

If the U.S. government invested trillions in stocks, it would dramatically distort markets and returns would not remain the same.

5. It ignores the cost of losing Europe geopolitically

Without U.S. security guarantees after World War II, several alternative outcomes were plausible:

  1. Soviet domination of Western Europe
  2. European nuclear arms races
  3. repeated wars between European states
  4. weaker global trade

Any of those would likely cost the U.S. economy far more than the hypothetical investment gains.

6. The “$38T equals U.S. national debt” point is coincidence

The argument ends by comparing the hypothetical investment value with the current United States national debt.

This is rhetorical, not analytical.

Debt accumulated because of:

  1. tax cuts
  2. wars
  3. recessions
  4. entitlement spending
  5. stimulus programs

European defense spending is only a small component of total federal spending over 80 years.

7. Europe also spent enormous amounts on defense

European countries have collectively spent trillions on their own militaries since 1945.

Major spenders include:

  1. United Kingdom
  2. France
  3. Germany

The U.S. was not paying for “all of Europe’s defense.”

The core fallacy

The argument commits a classic mistake:

Treating geopolitical spending as if it were a financial investment opportunity.

Defense spending is closer to insurance than investment.

You cannot say:

If we didn’t buy insurance we could have invested the premiums.

Yes—but then you’re also accepting the risk of catastrophic loss.

? Bottom line

The claim fails because:

  1. The $100B/year figure is exaggerated.
  2. U.S. spending in Europe served American strategic interests.
  3. The compound-interest scenario is unrealistic.
  4. It ignores economic benefits from global stability.
  5. The $38T comparison to national debt is rhetorical, not meaningful.

________________________________________________________________

And a counter argument.


Instead of costing America trillions, the post-1945 order helped create the largest and richest economic system in history, from which the U.S. benefited enormously.

Below are the main reasons historians and economists make that case.

1. It created the world’s richest trading bloc

After WWII the U.S. helped rebuild Western Europe through the Marshall Plan and security guarantees under NATO.

The result was a stable democratic region that became:

  1. one of the largest export markets for the United States
  2. one of the largest investors in the U.S. economy

Today the transatlantic economy between the U.S. and the European Union:

  1. is the largest economic relationship in the world
  2. supports millions of U.S. jobs
  3. accounts for trillions in trade and investment

In other words, U.S. security spending helped create the customer base for American companies.

2. It prevented another European great-power war

Before 1945, Europe repeatedly destabilized the global economy.

Major conflicts included:

  1. Franco-Prussian War
  2. World War I
  3. World War II

These wars devastated global trade and cost the U.S. enormous amounts.

By stabilizing Europe through NATO, the U.S. helped produce the longest period without major war between European great powers in centuries.

Avoiding just one more world war easily outweighs the cost of maintaining alliances.

3. It helped the U.S. win the Cold War cheaply

The U.S. alliance system forced the Soviet Union to compete economically and militarily with the combined power of North America and Western Europe.

Instead of facing the Soviet bloc alone, the U.S. had:

  1. the UK
  2. West Germany
  3. France
  4. Italy
  5. other NATO states

The combined economies of the NATO alliance were vastly larger than the Soviet bloc.

This pressure contributed significantly to the Soviet collapse in Dissolution of the Soviet Union.

From a strategic perspective, the U.S. won the Cold War without a direct great-power war.

4. The system entrenched U.S. economic dominance

The post-war order built institutions that strengthened U.S. influence:

  1. International Monetary Fund
  2. World Bank
  3. the dollar-based financial system

Because the U.S. provided security, allies accepted U.S. leadership in global finance.

That helped the United States dollar become the dominant global reserve currency.

This gives the U.S. huge advantages:

  1. cheaper borrowing
  2. global demand for dollars
  3. financial leverage through sanctions

These benefits are worth far more than military spending in Europe.

5. It allowed the U.S. to project power globally

Bases in Europe became launch points for U.S. operations across three continents.

For example, forces in Europe supported operations in:

  1. the Middle East
  2. North Africa
  3. the Mediterranean

Without those bases, the U.S. would have needed even more expensive logistics elsewhere.

6. The economic returns dwarf the military costs

Consider scale:

Approximate figures today:

  1. U.S.–EU trade: ~$1 trillion annually
  2. Total transatlantic investment: $6–7 trillion
  3. Millions of U.S. jobs tied to that relationship

Even small economic gains from this system pay for the alliance many times over.

7. Europe is not a free rider in aggregate

European NATO countries collectively spend hundreds of billions per year on defense.

Major contributors include:

  1. United Kingdom
  2. France
  3. Germany
  4. Poland

While burden-sharing debates exist, Europe still fields one of the largest military blocs in the world.

The deeper strategic logic

The U.S. post-1945 strategy was simple:

Spend a few percent of GDP on alliances to prevent catastrophic global wars and maintain a favorable economic order.

That strategy produced:

  1. the longest great-power peace in modern history
  2. unprecedented global economic growth
  3. U.S. geopolitical dominance

? Bottom line

Rather than costing the U.S. trillions, the NATO-based order likely generated far more wealth and security for the United States than it cost.

The alliance system after WWII may be one of the highest-return geopolitical investments ever made.


Now are we done with f**king nonsense where you couldn't even get the numbers right with the use of A.I and get back to the topic at hand.


The US and Israel has started a war that has nothing to do with Europe. A war that potentially risks destabilizing the world economy. What's the US plan? What's the likelihood of it succeeding, what's the cost/benefit analyse ? If this all goes tits up is the US going fix what it breaks, is it gonna take responsibility or you gonna moan about Europe some more?


TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
09 Mar 2026, 21:43
#115
09 Mar 2026, 21:43#115

But the UN does nothing. So what’s the solution?



What is the solution to Congo conflict?

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Mar 2026, 21:47
#116
09 Mar 2026, 21:47#116

The AI debunk is BS galore,


F iurst sentence is total shit, The defense budget for France - Germany and the UK combined Italy and Greece spend more han the "bggies does,


Europe has 100 000 troops in Europe and jas to protect the interest of the 3 countries and Tirkey after the U SA has the best trained and Equipt aarmy in NATO<


Not th full bdget of the US Army is spent iro Europe, Money spent onm oritecting trade routs and EU trade is not allocated to So nadsed on annua contributions to NA TO lined programs the USA contribution is higher than the full defense budget of the UK


DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
09 Mar 2026, 21:49
#117
09 Mar 2026, 21:49#117

"According to the Pentagon, Iran will only have the ability to send a nuclear missile against the USA in the year 2035.


That's according to the Pentagon. Ja, but what do you think will happen to the world we live in if they managed to drop one in Israel right next door?


The Pentagon also says it knows of no military threat to the US prior to Bozo and Bibi going to war.


Rubio's current version is basically that the US had to pre-emptively launch a strike against Iran because of the possible reprisals from Iran . . . if they hadn't been bombed.


That is what Rubio is saying, right?


Yes, opposed to sitting and waiting for them to do something they've been threatening to do for the last 45 years...just take away their ability to cause k@k now, then you get rid of the problem forever.


DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
09 Mar 2026, 21:53
#118
09 Mar 2026, 21:53#118

Any regime change in Iran would be an improvement. They are the worst of the worse and have been for years. About time something decisive is done...short term negatives outweigh the long term gains by a lot...Iran, Russia, China and their cronies have been driving up energy cost in the West by a huge margin...sanctions drive up the cost of oil in the west, they disregard the sanctions and although they sell it at a discount to their cronies, they still get more for it than they would have in an stable open market...win win for them if the status quo of the last 20 years continue.

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
09 Mar 2026, 21:56
#119
09 Mar 2026, 21:56#119

That is what Rubio is saying, right?


He was contradicted by Trump.


Yes, opposed to sitting and waiting for them to do something they've been threatening to do for the last 45 years...just take away their ability to cause k@k now, then you get rid of the problem forever.


Going by that logic should we pre-emptively bomb North Korea and China.


Lets assume you take away their capability now, what's to stop them from rebuilding it. The US and Israel going do this every time Iran rebuilds it stock of missiles?

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
09 Mar 2026, 22:03
#120
09 Mar 2026, 22:03#120

Any regime change in Iran would be an improvement. They are the worst of the worse and have been for years. About time something decisive is done...short term negatives outweigh the long term gains by a lot.


Ah it's about regime change, glad someone knows what the American plan is...might want to let the American's know what it is, cause they don't seem to know themselves.


Short term pain, for long term gain, I've have a feeling you might regret saying that in a few months time.

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