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FORUM / MIKES GRIPES /  Insulting atheists for a change.

Insulting atheists for a change.

Started by Plum402 REPLIES6,677 VIEWS· 30 Dec 2019, 13:14
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PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
02 Jan 2020, 12:22
#41
02 Jan 2020, 12:22#41

Gosh, Rooi

For someone that chucks the infantile word around, your comprehension of a simple idea, in plain language, is pretty bad.

I don't have a lot to say about the initial premise of this thread - that atheists are somehow driven by chemicals while god-botherers are driven by true love 

Please show where this was said. Yet again, you did not at all understand what was being said. Let me guess, my phrasing is lacking?

- because I find that so ridiculous, ill-conceived and infantile that it's not worth wasting any further time on, but I will say this

If you are talking about the way that you understood what  i was saying, then you are 100% correct. It is both ridiculous and infantile.

 . . . there's a very good reason why religious people make such a big deal about a judgement that will determine whether you go to heaven or hell (or whatever equivalent) and that's because they just can't bear the thought that all their faith was for nothing and we'll all have the same end regardless of whether we still believe in some outlandish fairy stories and indoctrinated beliefs or not.

Here you are making an assumption for an entire group out of pure opinion and without laying down a decent premise for what you are saying. Simply...I believe it's for nothing and so it is. I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that this is because you simply don't have a valid argument, rather than think it's because you''re so arrogant that you assume your opinion as fact and need to explain. 

That's just weak...and "ill-conceived". 

And by the way, your response speaks exactly to why Atheist was used in the title. They're a group that by definition precluded metaphysical explanations for the human condition. In other words, math and biology are left and it means you can now speak in measurable terms about human emotions. One last time, something you cannot do when religion is involved because you run into unsolvable philosophical roadblocks very early on.

You only see this position as support for religion because you feel attacked and then follow the usual defensive path that involves claiming religion is a fairytale. See, how silly that is? Considering that religion being a fairytale has nothing to do with this.

Procreating has nothing at all to do with whether you're religious or not, it's a basic instinct of all living things and loving and protecting your children, pups, kittens or whatever is common to all animals . . . it's not just reserved for selected humans who believe in a god.

Haha, you will have to point to where anyone said that procreation is the reserved for the  religious. You made an argument an against your own misguided understanding. Most people would understand "Religious people don't subscribe to evolution, mostly. They derive love from the metaphysical. In other words, you cannot make an argument against it since you are forced to begin from their unproven point of view." Do show where this says that religion is proven or factual and that only if you subscribe to it are you capable of true love. 

All you can do is say, god doesn't exist and so his love can't exist. Which is also just an opinion. You can't prove it either way, and so the argument is DOA. 

but at some stage you need to grow up, stop having blind faith in primitive dogma and think for yourself. Those values won't suddenly disappear and we all have a built in conscience that replaces the need for religion or faith.

But here is your biggest blunder. Firstly, the fact that you are still talking about religion, which as we now know, is completely irrelevant in this discussion. 

Using the term, "primitive dogma", in a clearly negative light, indicates that you take issue with it's era. Written back then so illogical to live by it now, right?

As someone that quotes Nietzsche, it's odd that you would feel so restrictively about about the idea of truth and relevance over time. There are endless dissertations, books, poems, songs, films and real life experiences which have given us much to consider as to the relevance of various truths through time. The majority of which, as concerns man's greatest psychological challenges, are basically shown to be eternal. Our emotional challenges are unchanging. And until our hardware changes, the status-quo will be maintained.

And you finish that sentence with ..."...think for yourself."

Because, according to you, man suddenly has an entirely new and more important field of emotional challenges to overcome and that only thinking(in a modern way) for yourself and not relying on past "archaic" understanding,  is the only answer. 

"All that we actually know about these laws of nature is what we ourselves bring to them — time and space, and therefore relationships of succession and number. But everything marvelous about the laws of nature, everything that quite astonishes us therein and seems to demand explanation, everything that might lead us to distrust idealism: all this is completely and solely contained within the mathematical strictness and inviolability of our representations of time and space. But we produce these representations in and from ourselves with the same necessity with which the spider spins." Nietzsche 

And that is what this thread is actually about. And that is why "Atheist" is in the title. And that is why you have yet again, come storming out the gates only to now realise that you made an irrelevant argument. 

And it is also why you must now reconsider your position on Nietzsche. Unless you wish to keep quoting an infant?






CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
02 Jan 2020, 12:36
#42
02 Jan 2020, 12:36#42

Hmmmmmmmmm ... ducking the questions again, huh?

Typical DA.

Are they a little too difficult for you perhaps? You couldn't even answer one.

LOL!!! No surprise.

Not to worry ... I understand ... that's usually the case with the shallow folk out there. Like you, they too have much to say ... with endless posts ... saying nothing ... contributing nothing ... no substance in any of them ...

The best they can do is things like ...

"As I said in my other post, when you are sleeping, you don't even know if you are alive or dead.

You only realise that you are alive when you wake up ……

So when you are dead, you won't realise it either"

Haaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahaaaa!! Wow!!!

That's really deep, bro ...



 

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
02 Jan 2020, 12:55
#43
02 Jan 2020, 12:55#43

No question to answer..... because you don't make much sense at all..... in fact..... I genuinely do believe that you have some serious issues that need to be dealt with.....

My take on you has changed quite considerably now CC......a lot actually......so forgive me...….because all of this from you.... is coming from some lonely old dude.... who says he sees things...……

LMAO, and I am supposed to take you seriously after that statement?

The next thing you know...…. you will be telling us all, that you see dead people..... Oh fuck no......do you?

I am sure you will fully understand that everything else I see on here from you in the future...….. will be taken with a shit load of salt......

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
02 Jan 2020, 14:20
#44
02 Jan 2020, 14:20#44

"Like you, they too have much to say ... with endless posts ... saying nothing ... contributing nothing ... no substance in any of them …"

Guys , I have a secret to share with all of you...…...just so you all know...…. I can see a person's "life force"...… I can even see it when it leaves your body..... no jokes..... I am not kidding here...…. there are no special powers that are needed to be able to see this "force"..... you just have to each really..... really.... believe that you can see it, and you will...… see it..... maybe...… you should hopefully be able to see it...… but if you can't see it..... don't stress, you probably just aren't as good of a person as me...…. or have the same level of God given powers that I have.

Yep CC..... loads of substance here from you...… I actually wonder what substance you were abusing or on.... when you saw this "force"

T hat was really deep....bro

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
02 Jan 2020, 16:59
#45
02 Jan 2020, 16:59#45

You don't need to have children to be able to have a view on love for children. 

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
02 Jan 2020, 17:24
#46
02 Jan 2020, 17:24#46

Lol Cloudy

"Tu quoque, or the appeal to hypocrisy, is a fallacy that intends to discredit the opponent's argument by asserting the opponent's failure to act consistently in accordance with its conclusion"

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
02 Jan 2020, 18:11
#47
02 Jan 2020, 18:11#47

Not for the first time Peeper quotes Nietzsche.....hahaha. Yes the last time you quoted him it went thus:


'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it'


Great quote. Very well read that Peeper. Except hilariously the person who said that was George Santayana. Do us a favour Peeper stop quoting 'Nietzsche' .

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
02 Jan 2020, 19:54
#48
02 Jan 2020, 19:54#48

"Posted by: Devil's Advocate (3146 posts)

Jan 02, 2020, 11:47

"You are supposed to question things and explore all things"

LMFAO..... the irony..... or hypocrisy...….. I'm not sure which one is a better fit"


Yet, you throw stuff at me without any collaborative substance...one accusation after the other, no backup...we must believe you because you say so...and you talk about hypocrisy? 

You reply to single statements out of context, ignore most of the conversation and pound on segments that you don't like, overemphasizing them. You don't have any interest in any kind of discussion on the subject.  Your MO is to accuse, poke holes in what you perceive as weak points and ignore whatever you don't like.

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
02 Jan 2020, 20:01
#49
02 Jan 2020, 20:01#49
"Not for the first time Peeper quotes Nietzsche.....hahaha. Yes the last time you quoted him it went thus:


'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it'"
A barefaced lie.
Moffie, are you prepared to admit that I attributed that quote (incorrectly admittedly) to Albert Camus rather than Friedrich Nietzsche and take the load of egg all over your stupid face or are you going to be the weak, gutless and cowardly liar that I know you to be?
LMAO!
As if Moffie would admit he's a liar!
PS Must say, this entire thread gives me a warm fuzzy feeling and reminds me just how much respect and tolerance we all have for one another's views. I'm feeling the love guys! Keep it up!
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
02 Jan 2020, 20:28
#50
02 Jan 2020, 20:28#50

"PS Must say, this entire thread gives me a warm fuzzy feeling and reminds me just how much respect and tolerance we all have for one another's views. I'm feeling the love guys! Keep it up!"


Sadly so, but 100% correct.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
02 Jan 2020, 21:04
#51
02 Jan 2020, 21:04#51

Yes I think it's very obvious atheists are a very scared cowardly bunch. When you present logical arguments and evidence they run away tails between legs. 

These fools think they are descendents of rocks and rooitwit insists he is a descendent of a monkeys. Very understandable  but absurd. 



MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
03 Jan 2020, 00:49
#52
03 Jan 2020, 00:49#52

Waaaaaahahaha that's right but even funnier. Santayana was born in 1863 and according to Wiki was influenced by:

Influenced byFriedrich NietzscheAristotlePlatoBaruch Spinoza.

So at least in linking him to Nietzsche I gave you the compliment of somebody who born in the same century and a supposed influence.

 But as you so kindly remind me you confused Santayana born in 1863 with Camus born in 1913.  But here's the really funny thing, Camus was opposed to drawing conclusions from history:







MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
03 Jan 2020, 00:56
#53
03 Jan 2020, 00:56#53

Hahaha....the German thinkers had 'placed history on the throne of god'.....seen 'History as destiny'.


How far is that from those who don't learn the lessons of history are destined to repeat it?


Camus firmly rejects that notion in favour of 'participating in the great adventure of the human spirit'


You not only got the wrong guy, but the guy you got was directly opposed to what you attributed to him. Hilariously, disastrously wrong and it's nice to see you finally fess up.

And on another bright note, in this case I agree with you....if  you cannot remember what happened in the past when you took me on, you are indeed condemned to having your head handed to you again.


Stay down.

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
03 Jan 2020, 07:23
#54
03 Jan 2020, 07:23#54
Goodness, that's a very long-winded admission that you were lying, Moffie. You could have simply said "yes" instead of going off on one of your "kanipshins" (sic) again.
LMAO!
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
03 Jan 2020, 07:23
#55
03 Jan 2020, 07:23#55

Oh dear rooitwit making a jackass of himself yet again.

Man is he consistent! ??

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
03 Jan 2020, 07:40
#56
03 Jan 2020, 07:40#56

"You don't have any interest in any kind of discussion on the subject"

LMFAO..... the irony..... or hypocrisy...….. I'm not sure which one is a better fit"

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
03 Jan 2020, 07:41
#57
03 Jan 2020, 07:41#57

"we must believe you because you say so"

Some examples of me demanding this would be nice..... 

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
03 Jan 2020, 07:44
#58
03 Jan 2020, 07:44#58

"When you present logical arguments and evidence they run away tails between legs".

From Beeno......…. ROTFLMFAO

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
03 Jan 2020, 07:55
#59
03 Jan 2020, 07:55#59

I see someone mentioned kittens....

Did you know

Scientists still cannot understand how feral kittens know how to naturally bury their bodily waste

Feral kittens who did not have any parent to teach them how to dig, do their business, and then bury their waste, still have scientists stumped as to how their natural instincts kick in, to do this, without ever being shown or taught by another cat or parent

Considering that most other living animals don't do it this way either..... in fact about 99% of all other animals, just defecate where they stand……. this is quite astonishing...... How do the kittens know to do this...…..

Oh......and on a brighter note.....at least Beeno's specially educated scientists, have proven that God created the universe...….

Talk about amazing

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
03 Jan 2020, 08:45
#60
03 Jan 2020, 08:45#60

So, Rooi

You up to speed then?

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
03 Jan 2020, 08:57
#61
03 Jan 2020, 08:57#61

"You up to speed then?"

Well, let's just say I'm up to the speed that a poor, sad and confused meatsack can reach.

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
03 Jan 2020, 09:10
#62
03 Jan 2020, 09:10#62

Haha, you did see the part where I said...

"It's just a cruel argument."

?

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
03 Jan 2020, 09:17
#63
03 Jan 2020, 09:17#63

Yes, I did see that but note that "cruel" is not the adjective I would have chosen to describe this "argument". 

The adjective that comes to my mind has 6 letters, starts with "st" and ends with "id".

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
03 Jan 2020, 09:23
#64
03 Jan 2020, 09:23#64

Stolid?

How so?

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
03 Jan 2020, 09:30
#65
03 Jan 2020, 09:30#65

Ummmm . . . not sure if you have a reason to explain every thought that pops into your head, Plumchum, but I don't. Like I said, it's just the adjective that came to mind.

Hope you're not going to start getting all red-faced and angry again because you think I didn't answer your question (that thankfully had a question mark this time). I did my best and if that's not good enough then go ahead and rant.

Edit: No, not "stolid". Try again.

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
03 Jan 2020, 09:38
#66
03 Jan 2020, 09:38#66

Red faced. Nah man.

A bit red chested as I ended up reading some Nietzsche by the pool yesterday. Lost track of time .

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
03 Jan 2020, 09:52
#67
03 Jan 2020, 09:52#67

The atheist loons keep losing the arguments and running away from the evidence. 

 Face it you can't even attempt a defence! ??????

This all has been a huge crash for the very foolish atheists. They will never recover. 

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
03 Jan 2020, 10:00
#68
03 Jan 2020, 10:00#68

"Face it you can't even attempt a defence! ??????"

And all you have in your defense......  is the "Word Of God"...….. which...…….. wait for it......is all man made

You do realise how that defense looks..... to any intelligent individual

LMFAO

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
03 Jan 2020, 10:18
#69
03 Jan 2020, 10:18#69

"It’s different to all the other feelings of love you have for partners, spouses, siblings, parents."

Never has a truer word been spoken...….. 

BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
03 Jan 2020, 10:19
#70
03 Jan 2020, 10:19#70
Our purpose is to survive. Thats it. Everything else is just the detail of how. The only difference between the religious and non religious is that the religious think they can survive beyond death. Though they almost always try to have an insurance policy in the form of children, so that their lineage can survive after they die...just in case.
Everything we (and all living things) do in life is try survive as long as possible. Medicine, savings, investing, houses, sex, "love", friends, partnerships......all for survival.
We humans think we are a lot more important than we are. We think we have some divine importance. The best way to illustrate our lack of importance is by considering the unimaginable size of the universe and how insignificantly minute earth is within it all. 
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
03 Jan 2020, 10:25
#71
03 Jan 2020, 10:25#71

Nobody can explain what it is like to lose a child...… unless they have had children, and lost a child......

At the same time...... nobody can ever describe their love for a child, if they have never had children of their own...…

That is my honest opinion on this..... and to me, there is not even a comparison...…. I could try and describe it to you...… but you would never ever know the full extent and enormity of that love...….... never ever...…. not in a million years

Just like I have not yet experienced the love that posters on here have already experienced towards a grandchild...…. I could never describe it or feel it...… nor would I try to

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
03 Jan 2020, 10:27
#72
03 Jan 2020, 10:27#72

"The best way to illustrate our lack of importance is by considering the unimaginable size of the universe and how insignificantly minute earth is within it all"

Well said blue

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
03 Jan 2020, 10:40
#73
03 Jan 2020, 10:40#73

Lol Cloudy.... poor Sharky

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
03 Jan 2020, 10:41
#74
03 Jan 2020, 10:41#74

Awe, Cloudy.

Here, let me illustrate what the appeal to hypocrisy is and why it's never a valid argument.

A serial killer, with 50 kills to his name, is interviewed one day. The interviewer ask him if he thinks killing is good or bad.

The serial killer replies by saying...

"You should not kill other people. They have a right to life and you don't have the right to take anyone's life from them. It is wrong to kill."

Ok, so he is 100% a hypocrite, agreed?

Is he wrong though? Does his outright hypocrisy have any bearing on the point he is making?

And then we can go further, to the appeal to authority.

This is when the the credentials of the person making the argument are attacked even though their authenticity have no bearing on the outcome of the subject discussed. 

So, if an illiterate and half retarded person tells you that one plus one is two, his standing has no bearing on whether the sum he presents is correct or not.

See, I supposedly need help but here I am, helping you. By your standards, this would be irony.


PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
03 Jan 2020, 11:01
#75
03 Jan 2020, 11:01#75

DA

And here we arrive to the sacred.

"Like sader said, who cares? It’s there and it’s what I feel."

See, the love one feels for a child, is obviously personal. To suggest that it is less, fake, insignificant or anything else that undermines that love is, by all accounts, abhorrent and deeply offensive to the perceiver. 

The consensus is that nobody else has the right to act in a way that interferes with the relationship between parent and child. Also that this love is boundless, all encompassing and animates one's being in ways that words fall short of adequately describing? This love exists inside the mind of the parent and might be visible through the parents actions towards the child but can never be perceived in its entirety by anyone other than the parent. That's what the parents on this thread had said.

Would it be correct assume that this love is the love ceiling? The greatest of them all? 

My question is, how do you or anyone else know that this love is actually the ceiling? My guess is, because it's the greatest love they have perceived/felt. 

So, how does anyone that insults a religious persons belief and love for their God know that they are not in fact challenging a love which is greater than the love a person feels for a child?

They don't know, is the simple answer. Because by contributors to this thread's own ommision, love is personal and entirely subjective.

We feel free to insult spiritual love because we deem it to be fictional while simultaneously suggesting that the love we have for our children is NOT fictional, despite it only existing in our minds and perceivable to nobody but ourselves.


PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
03 Jan 2020, 11:11
#76
03 Jan 2020, 11:11#76

Cloudy, remember how your school teacher said A is for Apple, B is for bird...

Why the hell did she bring fruit and farmyard animals into it when you were supposed to be learning the alphabet?

I do sincerely hope that you are contradicting me out of dislike rather not understanding the simple examples I gave you.

In case of the latter, I don't think you're in any position to suggest that I need help. Since it suggests that you are in t he 1/7 of the population with a sub 85IQ(issues relating simple abstract ideas to logical examples).


DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
03 Jan 2020, 11:23
#77
03 Jan 2020, 11:23#77

"So, how does anyone that insults a religious persons belief and love for their God know that they are not in fact challenging a love which is greater than the love a person feels for a child?"

Plum , I don't agree with this reasoning at all

If all religious people heard some voice that said, sacrifice your children to me right now, immediately...…..and I will reveal myself to you...….. and protect you from the consequences of your actions...…….how many would do it...… how many would kill their own child or children..... trusting that the voice that they have just heard in their head, is not in fact.... the devil himself...…. or themselves talking to themselves...… or just their subconscious wanting them to kill their children...…...most would be extremely hesitant...… and almost all of them would never think of doing it...….

Once that 'love" is tested to that kind of limit, it is very amazing how many Christians will immediately back out...…. and incredibly quickly..... back down

However, if at any time...… you ask any parent if they would put their own life on the line right now...... to save their own flesh and blood from drowning or from whatever immediate harm or danger could or would be coming their way..... it would be instantaneous...… not even a second's thought...…….it's paternal...… you cannot copy that instinct or desire as a parent......that feeling cannot be cloned or manufactured...……..far more  people / parents would commit that ultimate sacrifice, in a heartbeat..... to save their own...… and that is where the difference in love comes in

I definitely don't mean to insult anyone who has not had any children, but in my humble and honest opinion...…. there is absolutely no comparison at all..... to the love you have for a child.


DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
03 Jan 2020, 11:36
#78
03 Jan 2020, 11:36#78

And it works both ways Plum...…

Your child is right in front of you...…. drowning...…. screaming for daddy to help......yet you hear that inner voice saying...…. sacrifice your child to me now, and I will reveal myself to you...…………..would you do it Plum?

If you don't have kids...….would you do it to your brother or sister's child or children?...… when they are within your immediate grasp...…. you can save them both Plum...…. it's all up to you...…. as their uncle...…...listen to that voice or don't..... but your brother or sister is standing screaming from across the bay.... to please save their babies...… what takes preference here Plum..... your ultimate belief in that God just spoke to you, to sacrifice these kids..... which you would have to explain to your brother or sister later...…. or would your love from a n uncle's perspective take over, and allow them to live...….

Now Plum, according to most Christians......this is a very real and fair scenario, because we all know that God does this on purpose, as he has done many times in the past...… to test people...… it is the ultimate test in faith

Don't tell me that you would let them drown...…. because we both know that is not the option you would take.

There is the difference in love between God and an uncle......not even a parent

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
03 Jan 2020, 12:07
#79
03 Jan 2020, 12:07#79

"DA....you’re being too nice and careful you could even be virtue signalling"

It's all good Clou dy...… that would matter if I cared....

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
03 Jan 2020, 12:11
#80
03 Jan 2020, 12:11#80

No, Cloudy. 

I'm not pretending that that you're contradicting me out of dislike. 

I'm hoping that you are. 

Because if you are too stupid to understand the logical fallacies, then you are demonstrably a moron.

Here is a website. 

Note, it makes use of examples. 



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